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Author Topic: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....  (Read 26692 times)

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Offline thunderbroom

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #60 on: December 18, 2005, 02:31:15 PM »
I ran it last night on a couple of local bands.  It was far quieter than 12db.  I looked at it in Audition and it was -35db or so, and that is with the gain on the JB3 at +12db.  Looks like I'm going to have to figure out the preamp as well.

Offline cgresq192

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #61 on: March 31, 2006, 02:14:36 PM »
What mods would I need to make to allow this to work on a JB3?

Basically I would like to use this as my battery box/preamp solution
DPA 4061's > CA-9100>(3wire)>R-09HR
SPCMC4(AT853's)>CA-9100(3wire)>R-09HR

Offline poorlyconditioned

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #62 on: March 31, 2006, 02:25:22 PM »
I ran it last night on a couple of local bands.  It was far quieter than 12db.  I looked at it in Audition and it was -35db or so, and that is with the gain on the JB3 at +12db.  Looks like I'm going to have to figure out the preamp as well.

That sounds *way* too low.  Hmm.  Not sure if something wrong there.  (I'm the one who sold you the battery box, right???)

  Richard
Mics: Sennheiser MKE2002 (dummy head), Studio Projects C4, AT825 (unmodded), AT822 franken mic (x2), AT853(hc,c,sc,o), Senn. MKE2, Senn MKE40, Shure MX183/5, CA Cards, homebrew Panasonic and Transsound capsules.
Pre/ADC: Presonus Firepod & Firebox, DMIC20(x2), UA5(poorly-modded, AD8620+AD8512opamps), VX440
Recorders: Edirol R4, R09, IBM X24 laptop, NJB3(x2), HiMD(x2), MD(1).
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Offline thunderbroom

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #63 on: March 31, 2006, 02:51:54 PM »
No, I didn't buy it from you.  I rewired the box using a mix of the two different 3wire BB diagrams that have been offered up and modded it into an AD-20 and everything is cool now.  I don't know what happened with the first one I made...

Offline poorlyconditioned

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2006, 05:09:47 PM »
No, I didn't buy it from you.  I rewired the box using a mix of the two different 3wire BB diagrams that have been offered up and modded it into an AD-20 and everything is cool now.  I don't know what happened with the first one I made...

OK, well take a look at the figures/schematics/files in:
  www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~mannr/AT853

I'm pretty sure there is something wrong with your setup.  It might be a few (like 10 or max 20)dB down, but not that much...

  Richard
Mics: Sennheiser MKE2002 (dummy head), Studio Projects C4, AT825 (unmodded), AT822 franken mic (x2), AT853(hc,c,sc,o), Senn. MKE2, Senn MKE40, Shure MX183/5, CA Cards, homebrew Panasonic and Transsound capsules.
Pre/ADC: Presonus Firepod & Firebox, DMIC20(x2), UA5(poorly-modded, AD8620+AD8512opamps), VX440
Recorders: Edirol R4, R09, IBM X24 laptop, NJB3(x2), HiMD(x2), MD(1).
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Offline Sanjay

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2006, 05:18:58 PM »
maybe bad solder joints, this has happened to me before
mics & cameras

Offline Humbug

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #66 on: April 01, 2006, 12:40:22 AM »
This probably is a daft question, but if I was to record an unamplified classical show, could I run:

AT933 > 3wbb > SPSPSB1 > Nomad JB3

To try and get some gain on the recording?

Or would the Sound Pro Box do nothing to boost the gain?
UK based taper: MK4>Nbox Platinum>PCM-M10
AT853C>CA9200 / PIPsqueak>Tascam DR-2D

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Offline poorlyconditioned

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #67 on: April 01, 2006, 02:15:14 AM »
This probably is a daft question, but if I was to record an unamplified classical show, could I run:

AT933 > 3wbb > SPSPSB1 > Nomad JB3

To try and get some gain on the recording?

Or would the Sound Pro Box do nothing to boost the gain?

The battery box does *nothing* to boost the gain.  In fact, a 3-wire box will have a bit less level, maybe 6-10dB less, than the regular (2 wire) battery box.

There are a lot of issues with gain.  Can you put mics directly into *line* input?  If you have a loud show, maybe.
- if you have "hot" mics, ie., sensitive mics output larger voltage for same sound level
    (generally condensers are about 20dB "hotter" than dynamic mics, and probably +-10dB variation in
     various condensors.  AT853 are medium hot.  Sennheiser MKE2 are a bit better.  Panasonic WM61A are
     *very hot*.  Panasonic WM60 are about -10dB colder than WM61, about equal to MKE2.)
- if you have *gain* on the line input

NJB3 does not have real gain.  It just boosts the *digital* signal, same as you would do in post.  So, don't bother.

Some other line inputs, like minidisc, have line gain, and quite a lot at that.  My old Sony MZ-R37 seems to have oodles of gain, I don't even need the mic input.  I *believe* Iriver has real gain on the inputs.

So, remember, battery box does not add gain.  Try the line input on your recorder.  If you can to within -12dB or so, you're fine.  If you're below -20dB or so, time to add a preamp.

  Richard
Mics: Sennheiser MKE2002 (dummy head), Studio Projects C4, AT825 (unmodded), AT822 franken mic (x2), AT853(hc,c,sc,o), Senn. MKE2, Senn MKE40, Shure MX183/5, CA Cards, homebrew Panasonic and Transsound capsules.
Pre/ADC: Presonus Firepod & Firebox, DMIC20(x2), UA5(poorly-modded, AD8620+AD8512opamps), VX440
Recorders: Edirol R4, R09, IBM X24 laptop, NJB3(x2), HiMD(x2), MD(1).
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Offline Humbug

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #68 on: April 01, 2006, 08:22:24 AM »

So, remember, battery box does not add gain.  Try the line input on your recorder.  If you can to within -12dB or so, you're fine.  If you're below -20dB or so, time to add a preamp.

  Richard


Thats an excellent answer, thank you. At least I now know that running the two battery boxes together wont achieve anything.

I'm finding the AT933 > 3wbb runs around 12-13dB below the CMC2>SPSPSB1 recordings I make, when I'm running two rigs together.

For example at The Black Crowes a couple of weeks ago, I had to boost the recordings 16-18dB to bring them up to 0dB. For small club shows this is more like 12-14dB. I guess thats the tradeoff for the small size of the 3-wire battery box, but there might be a market for a 3 wire battery box + preamp all in one package.
UK based taper: MK4>Nbox Platinum>PCM-M10
AT853C>CA9200 / PIPsqueak>Tascam DR-2D

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Humbug66

Offline poorlyconditioned

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #69 on: April 01, 2006, 01:01:04 PM »

So, remember, battery box does not add gain.  Try the line input on your recorder.  If you can to within -12dB or so, you're fine.  If you're below -20dB or so, time to add a preamp.

  Richard


Thats an excellent answer, thank you. At least I now know that running the two battery boxes together wont achieve anything.

I'm finding the AT933 > 3wbb runs around 12-13dB below the CMC2>SPSPSB1 recordings I make, when I'm running two rigs together.

For example at The Black Crowes a couple of weeks ago, I had to boost the recordings 16-18dB to bring them up to 0dB. For small club shows this is more like 12-14dB. I guess thats the tradeoff for the small size of the 3-wire battery box, but there might be a market for a 3 wire battery box + preamp all in one package.

About 10dB is due to the battery box.  The other 6-10dB is probably due to the fact that CMC2 (AT831 or SP clone of same) is a bit "hotter" than the AT853/AT933/AT943.

Personally, I would ditch the NJB3 and record MD line in with line-in gain.  Even running compressed (ATRAC), I find the sound is very clean, and there are no random hard drive access noises that (some) people are experiencing.  But that is my own preference.

  Richard
Mics: Sennheiser MKE2002 (dummy head), Studio Projects C4, AT825 (unmodded), AT822 franken mic (x2), AT853(hc,c,sc,o), Senn. MKE2, Senn MKE40, Shure MX183/5, CA Cards, homebrew Panasonic and Transsound capsules.
Pre/ADC: Presonus Firepod & Firebox, DMIC20(x2), UA5(poorly-modded, AD8620+AD8512opamps), VX440
Recorders: Edirol R4, R09, IBM X24 laptop, NJB3(x2), HiMD(x2), MD(1).
** This individual has moved to user "illconditioned" **

 

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