Topic: SP-CMC-4U Mics

[hawghunter]

I Just pick up a pair of these mics. Went to try them out had some clipping issues or brickwalling. My rig is a Micro trak 24/96, SP-SPSB-10 battery box w/ bass roll off option (not turned on), and going on to the MT though the 1/4" line inputs.  Also had the levels turned all the way down, and set to 'M' on the setings.  Am I doing something wrong? Should I have set the MT on the 'L' setting? Any help would be great. Also I didn't have this with other mics, so I'm confussed.
Thanks

[Alchemy]

Here we go again...well for starters, the AT u853s with just battery power can only reproduce at most, 110 db's before they will start to distort.

Was this a loud show? Can you provide any samples?

Also, if you don't mind me asking, what other mics have you used in the past?

[hawghunter]

the show was loud, (small bar) i have been to louder.  can't get a sample right know, not at that computer. When I looked at the wav spectrum in audition it was maxed in 50% of the wav. I used the sp-cmc-19's. So are you saying I need different or more power?
Thanks

[George]

the show was loud, (small bar) i have been to louder.  can't get a sample right know, not at that computer. When I looked at the wav spectrum in audition it was maxed in 50% of the wav. I used the sp-cmc-19's. So are you saying I need different or more power?
Thanks

It's a well known problem with at mics (at least the 853, 943 lines).  Either get a three wire battery box or get those mics modded to xlr for phantom power. 

[Alchemy]

the show was loud, (small bar) i have been to louder.  can't get a sample right know, not at that computer. When I looked at the wav spectrum in audition it was maxed in 50% of the wav. I used the sp-cmc-19's. So are you saying I need different or more power?
Thanks

Yes, as gloco said, it's a common problem with the AT mics. One way out of it is three wire powering, and the other is phantom powering.
If you were using the battery module with your old SP-CMC-19s, then they would have been able to reproduce 120 dbs without distortion.

[hawghunter]

Any suggestion on a three wire box.
Thanks

[nameloc01]

goddammit!!!
 i just bought a pair of those this past week, the guy at SP assured me that unless it was an extemely loud show that my sp-8 would supply sufficient power,thus i didnt order the xlr jacks on them nor did i order the power modules.fuck.
so whats the deal with the 3 wire BB??? is it a modification to a standard or a different unit all together??
this really pisses me off. i have 3 shows coming up in the next 2 weeks and i was hoping to break these mics in.

[Alchemy]

goddammit!!!
 i just bought a pair of those this past week, the guy at SP assured me that unless it was an extemely loud show that my sp-8 would supply sufficient power,thus i didnt order the xlr jacks on them nor did i order the power modules.fuck.
so whats the deal with the 3 wire BB??? is it a modification to a standard or a different unit all together??
this really pisses me off. i have 3 shows coming up in the next 2 weeks and i was hoping to break these mics in.

nameloc01, have your old AT829's distorted at high volumes when you taped "Tool" (very loud, right?) ?

[habit]

Any suggestion on a three wire box.
Thanks

Try Chris Church on here. He's been a big help to me with the same issues.

[poorlyconditioned]

goddammit!!!
 i just bought a pair of those this past week, the guy at SP assured me that unless it was an extemely loud show that my sp-8 would supply sufficient power,thus i didnt order the xlr jacks on them nor did i order the power modules.fuck.
so whats the deal with the 3 wire BB??? is it a modification to a standard or a different unit all together??
this really pisses me off. i have 3 shows coming up in the next 2 weeks and i was hoping to break these mics in.

You need a three wire battery box, or modify your mics (insert 4.7k resistors at the connector).

Ask Chris Church to help you out.

The mics are definitely worth the money once you get them powered correctly!

What I don't understand is why SoundPros have not caught on and offered three wire battery boxes.  They are missing a *huge* market here.

  Richard

[Alchemy]

What I don't understand is why SoundPros have not caught on and offered three wire battery boxes.  They are missing a *huge* market here.

They'll just tell you need phantom power. 
But I *really* do agree...

I'm not at all trying to bad-mouth Sound Professionals, but you know I asked Chris (Sound Pro Chris) a bunch of questions and got *completely* different answers from what other technical minded people on here told me.

[nameloc01]

goddammit!!!
 i just bought a pair of those this past week, the guy at SP assured me that unless it was an extemely loud show that my sp-8 would supply sufficient power,thus i didnt order the xlr jacks on them nor did i order the power modules.fuck.
so whats the deal with the 3 wire BB??? is it a modification to a standard or a different unit all together??
this really pisses me off. i have 3 shows coming up in the next 2 weeks and i was hoping to break these mics in.

they dont push 3 wires because they push the U853 dual power modules @ 199.00 each,(2) one for each mic/cable..so 400.00 for the set, or they also sell a phantomm power converter module that steps down a 48vt to a usable source for their mics,these are about 150.00 plus another 200.00 for the dencke battery powered portable phantom unit.

recording,i have used the 829's on many occasions,mostly at the HOB(cleveland) where i usually set up base in the balcony right in front of the sound system.i never had a problem there. i recorded TOOL at the fox theater last may, came out decent, no clipping at all.
did TOOL at columbus 9/21 some consistant clipping at the higher points in the show,this was at the top concourse at the back of the arena.
TOOL the next night at auburn hills, on the floor 14 th row, some very minor,only a few times,there was some clippage.
so it has nt been real consistant, it may have even been the levels, i dunno.
but those are the only two shows where its happened at all.
 i am rather bummed, i need to get this fixed and fixed right now.i wish the dude at SP was more accurate with his statements, usually they have a+ service and advise.
so, is the opinion to do a 3 wire or phantom>converter??
son-of-a-bitch.

You need a three wire battery box, or modify your mics (insert 4.7k resistors at the connector).

Ask Chris Church to help you out.

The mics are definitely worth the money once you get them powered correctly!

What I don't understand is why SoundPros have not caught on and offered three wire battery boxes.  They are missing a *huge* market here.

  Richard

[Church-Audio]

What I don't understand is why SoundPros have not caught on and offered three wire battery boxes.  They are missing a *huge* market here.

They'll just tell you need phantom power. 
But I *really* do agree...

I'm not at all trying to bad-mouth Sound Professionals, but you know I asked Chris (Sound Pro Chris) a bunch of questions and got *completely* different answers from what other technical minded people on here told me.

Here is the problem with the A-T mics as I see it.. Number 1 the distortion figures they are using are not accurate.. These mics do distort badly I have measured them at 114db at 1k these mics have a distortion that is almost 15% that is VERY HIGH! I measure my own mic capsules from the factory they are 10% typical but after my mod the AT mics measure 0.5% and my mics measure 0.5%. So getting the mod done to these mics saves them from distortion but you do sacrifice some level that's why after doing the mod you should invest in a preamp.. To run your mics unless your always taping loud shows then you don't need a preamp in most cases..

Chris Church

I find people that are using the MT do need a preamp after my mod because the noise floor in the MT preamp is bad to begin with. And when you need the extra gain from the MT it brings up the noise floor too much, that being said the preamp in the Edirol R-09 is much better and more often then not for most loud shows not needed..

[poorlyconditioned]

What I don't understand is why SoundPros have not caught on and offered three wire battery boxes.  They are missing a *huge* market here.

They'll just tell you need phantom power. 
But I *really* do agree...

I'm not at all trying to bad-mouth Sound Professionals, but you know I asked Chris (Sound Pro Chris) a bunch of questions and got *completely* different answers from what other technical minded people on here told me.

Here is the problem with the A-T mics as I see it.. Number 1 the distortion figures they are using are not accurate.. These mics do distort badly I have measured them at 114db at 1k these mics have a distortion that is almost 15% that is VERY HIGH! I measure my own mic capsules from the factory they are 10% typical but after my mod the AT mics measure 0.5% and my mics measure 0.5%. So getting the mod done to these mics saves them from distortion but you do sacrifice some level that's why after doing the mod you should invest in a preamp.. To run your mics unless your always taping loud shows then you don't need a preamp in most cases..

Chris Church

I find people that are using the MT do need a preamp after my mod because the noise floor in the MT preamp is bad to begin with. And when you need the extra gain from the MT it brings up the noise floor too much, that being said the preamp in the Edirol R-09 is much better and more often then not for most loud shows not needed..

Hey Chris.  I think the problem is AT mics were *never* designed to run as "two-wire" at all.  If you look at any of the numerous AT powering options, they use a three-wire circuit.  Even the power modules that are battery/phantom split the battery voltage so that half is across the FET and half across the (source) load resistor.

As far as "not enough gain" that is subjective.  Sure, if you're trying to run into a NJB3 or Iriver, you've got a problem.  But several line inputs, like Edirol R01/R09, and Minidisc have enough gain to bring this up nicely for any amplified music.  I think they might add 10-15dB or so but that is quite enough.  That is why I've been using my MD so much even though I've got a lot (!) of other gear.

  Richard

[Church-Audio]

What I don't understand is why SoundPros have not caught on and offered three wire battery boxes.  They are missing a *huge* market here.

They'll just tell you need phantom power. 
But I *really* do agree...

I'm not at all trying to bad-mouth Sound Professionals, but you know I asked Chris (Sound Pro Chris) a bunch of questions and got *completely* different answers from what other technical minded people on here told me.

Here is the problem with the A-T mics as I see it.. Number 1 the distortion figures they are using are not accurate.. These mics do distort badly I have measured them at 114db at 1k these mics have a distortion that is almost 15% that is VERY HIGH! I measure my own mic capsules from the factory they are 10% typical but after my mod the AT mics measure 0.5% and my mics measure 0.5%. So getting the mod done to these mics saves them from distortion but you do sacrifice some level that's why after doing the mod you should invest in a preamp.. To run your mics unless your always taping loud shows then you don't need a preamp in most cases..

Chris Church

I find people that are using the MT do need a preamp after my mod because the noise floor in the MT preamp is bad to begin with. And when you need the extra gain from the MT it brings up the noise floor too much, that being said the preamp in the Edirol R-09 is much better and more often then not for most loud shows not needed..

Hey Chris.  I think the problem is AT mics were *never* designed to run as "two-wire" at all.  If you look at any of the numerous AT powering options, they use a three-wire circuit.  Even the power modules that are battery/phantom split the battery voltage so that half is across the FET and half across the (source) load resistor.

As far as "not enough gain" that is subjective.  Sure, if you're trying to run into a NJB3 or Iriver, you've got a problem.  But several line inputs, like Edirol R01/R09, and Minidisc have enough gain to bring this up nicely for any amplified music.  I think they might add 10-15dB or so but that is quite enough.  That is why I've been using my MD so much even though I've got a lot (!) of other gear.

  Richard

Richard they are not really three wire capsule all they are is two wire capsules that have a separate ground wire to the case. The red wire is the signal the Yellow is the negative if you remove the ground wire the mic will still work but will be noisy in a true three wire capsule it will not work..

This is the same as the other capsule I use for my mics. I could be wrong but that's what I have discovered.