Topic: Schoeps Mid-Side

[BayTaynt3d]

I've been listening to some of these sources on the LMA, and I'm honestly blown away by the ones from environments like I often record: acoustic or mostly acoustic recorded from on stage or stage lip. The more I think about mid-side, the more I think it might suite my typical scenario. And then those Schoeps sound so clean, no noise, and are so low-profile, I'm starting to drool over the whole idea. 

Anyone have any first-hand experience with this type of rig? Are there any situations where mid-side is bad? My instinct is that I'd rather run DIN or NOS from far away, and XY and MS come into their own up close, but what do I know? And, gulp, what would an active MS Schoeps setup set me back new/used? A lot I imagine... 

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

Gulp.  Are you ready?  $3800.00.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Schoeps-CCM-8L-CCM-8-CCM8-Figure-8-Microphone_W0QQitemZ120183502560
http://cgi.ebay.com/Schoeps-CCM-41L-CCM-41-CCM41-Hypercardioid-Microphone_W0QQitemZ120183498957

[Tim]

My instinct is that I'd rather run DIN or NOS from far away, and XY and MS come into their own up close, but what do I know?

I'd be inclined to run M/S from farther back (as well as upclose) as you can dial in just exactly the amount of reverberant sound. My gut would tell me to stay away from NOS if in TS as the wide spacing would introduce too much reverberant sound

M/S does sound sweet

[bobbygeeWOW]

With ya 100% - MS on stage(lip) to gain phase-free coincidence + 180 degree recordable stereo angle that you can dial down later to widen the image if it works out that way, and near coincident goodness when back a bit. 

[BayTaynt3d]

Gulp.  Are you ready?  $3800.00.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Schoeps-CCM-8L-CCM-8-CCM8-Figure-8-Microphone_W0QQitemZ120183502560
http://cgi.ebay.com/Schoeps-CCM-41L-CCM-41-CCM41-Hypercardioid-Microphone_W0QQitemZ120183498957

I'm a little confused about the different options I have with Schoeps. The F8 is obvious for the S, but I'm thinking I might want a card and a hyper for M b/c I might also use this rig for ambient sound effects and whatnot too, not to mention that hyper might be nice depending on the room. So do Schoeps have interchangable caps too, but that are still actives? Also, the ebay links you provided, do you typically have to buy the cables as an additional expense? Those mics don't need bodies right? But the ones that are interchangeable do have bodies, correct?

[bobbygeeWOW]

Yer basically looking at modular vs. compact

http://schoeps.de/E-2004/overview-mod-mics.html

http://schoeps.de/E-2004/overview-compact-mics.html

Where the modular (colette series) have an active cable system and interchangable caps.

[CQBert]

I have borrowed a M/S rig numerous times...  The owner had a 21H doing the mid and it was really nice.  The slight emphasis on the high's was welcome and helped keep things centered very well.

I always ran it as Left and Right and did the mixing in post rather than use the M/S Decoder in the VMS box.

CQBert

[Kevin Straker]

You would need cmc6 bodies(720.00 each), kc5 active cables(486.00 each), mk8 (1015.00), and mk4(648.00) or mk41(845.00). These are the new prices and will be the same at every retailer.

[Tim]

I have borrowed a M/S rig numerous times...  The owner had a 21H doing the mid and it was really nice.  The slight emphasis on the high's was welcome and helped keep things centered very well.

that's a really interesting idea

[CQBert]

You can forgo the bodies if you go to lemo connections where you plug directly into a VMS or a LemoSax but neither of those options save you any money and may cost more if you buy new..

I would suggest trying to find a M/S Rig for sale and purchased used... you can buy a cap or two down the road...

They sound great but do not fall into the trap of trying to mix and re-mix and re-mix in post... get it once and call it a day...

CQBert

[BayTaynt3d]

New idea...

I'm wondering how an MK8 for the side and one of my 480s used for the mid would sound together? This seems financially more viable cause $1K gets me the MK8, and then I already have omni, card, and hyper caps for my AKG. It'd still end up being fairly low profile still too if I had a good way to mount it. What do you guys think about that?

[CQBert]

I would suggest borrowing a Schoeps fig8 and trying it out to see if you like it... 

You can always start small and work up to adding in the Schoeps on down the road.

I am not real familiar with the AKG's and what pre-amps they tend to sound best with - you may want to consider how both mics will sound good through whatever you are running. 

If you plan to mix mic brands I would ask around and see if there are any concerns with phantom power or other issues that might creep up - I have never done this but I know people on the board have...  always better safe than sorry with your gear and your money.

I ran u89's for a while and loved the M/S recordings I made so I encourage you to expand your horizons.

CQBert

[F.O.Bean]

New idea...

I'm wondering how an MK8 for the side and one of my 480s used for the mid would sound together? This seems financially more viable cause $1K gets me the MK8, and then I already have omni, card, and hyper caps for my AKG. It'd still end up being fairly low profile still too if I had a good way to mount it. What do you guys think about that?

If you want to get into M/S on the cheap, look into the MBHO series. They sell Cards/Hypers/Subcards/Omnis and a KA800 N Fig-8 capsule. I am buying that fig-8 capsule AS SOON as I can afford it. I wouldnt mix mic companies if I were you. The Schoeps fig-8 would have more lowend and the AKG would be more neutral, that would be a NIGHTMARE IMO to mix down in post, because instead of mixing the M/S down, youd also prolly have to EQ as well.......

The MBHO's are HIGHLY overlooked mics IMO. They have a capsule arsenal onlys econd to Schoeps and sound just as good as most higher priced mics IMO. I do think they benefit from a wamer preamp tho ala the Aerco MP-2 I am purchasing in a few months to run in front of my 722 for my 480's/MBHO's....Youc an get an MBHO KA800 N fig-8 capsule for around 600/shipped and a pair of Cards or hypers around that same price new for the pair.....Only thing I havent figured out yet is mounting them in M/S. I will prolly jus6t end up using my AT 8415+K-Tek K-SUS HD mounts with my shure vert bar like I use with my 480's since theyre both the same diameter and I will just haev to run the MBHO's with the full bodies on the stand. not as low-pro as Id like with M/S, but I already have everything I need to run them that way, minus the Fig-8 capsule

BTW, here is an MBHO Hypers>722 rig so you can judge the sound of them as a start: I think you'll agree that the MBHO's are HIGHLY overlooked for some odd reason

Perpetual Groove 10/24/2007 MBHO KA500 HN Hypers>722(DINa KwonBar/3'ROC/FOB)

16-Bit
http://www.archive.org/details/pgroove2007-10-24.ka500.722.flac16

24-Bit
http://www.archive.org/details/pgroove2007-10-24.ka500.722.flac24

[bobbygeeWOW]

For general interest, according to Don Pearson (Healy's right hand man), Howard Danchik was using an AKG C34 in MS with card+figure8 to feed their UltraMatrix machine for quite a while. 

[BayTaynt3d]

Youc an get an MBHO KA800 N fig-8 capsule for around 600/shipped

Yeah, but then I need the body too. The Schoeps would be cheaper and more low profile if I just needed a fig-8 only wouldn't it?