Topic: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 5)

[stevetoney]

Are the errors audible in real time? I usually dont use headphones.

Has anyone running a backup off LINE OUT found the errors in the backup recording?

Not sure we even know the errors are happening in real time - or part of some other process (like on/off for example)

I have some files that were fine - and then wrote files that had errors - and then old formerly good files had glitches.

Good questions.  I'll see if I can spend some more time with my unit over the rest of the weekend and get an answer.  I'll also connect four mics to see if I can answer the question about whether the glitch gets written to both pairs of files at the same time.

[voltronic]

The EU list last updated in March 2015 (I guess nobody caught the "mistake" then either?)

That probably was a good list - then...

But now - 10 months in errors emerge - and the list contracts/redacts.

More tracks being covered by Tascam.

With logic like that then do you also view firmware updates as "more tracks being covered by Tascam"?

Tascam said yesterday that the original list wasn't related to the DR70D, yet they updated the list in March.  If it wasn't related to the DR70D, then why would they have bothered to update the list back then? 

The list was fine until, well it wasn't the list anymore.  See what's happening?  Now they're revising history saying that list was for a different deck...even though they revised the list in March. 

As I said, they going back and covering their tracks.

Look, I bought a card off the new list and it's on its way.  If it fixes everything, great...I'll STFU in this thread.  But Tascam still gets an F-Minus from me for for how they've handled this and this is absolutely the last Tascam product I ever buy.  If you guys want to keep drinking the kool-aid they're serving up, good luck to ya with that in the future.  All you're doing is help provide cover for them IMHO.

No, that's not what was said.  What was said is that the list currently on the EU site is wrong, and they are trying to figure out why it's there and what recorder it is actually for.  Was that the first card list on that site or was there an earlier version?  I checked the Wayback Machine and there are no earlier versions of the site saved before March.  Maybe Tascam paid off the folks at archive.org to delete the evidence?  If so, the original card list is likely being stored in a secure location along with the scenery and props from the faked moon landing and Obama's Kenyan birth certificate.

[stevetoney]

Yesterday, you didn't define if it was a current or past list.  What difference does it make if it's a current list or a past list...the issue is that there are cards on either list that don't work in the unit, right? 

[2manyrocks]

The EU list is dated 2/3/2015.  Firmware 1.10 is dated 6/2/2015.  Firmware 1.11 is dated 6/26/2015.

I've wondered if the firmware updates made the 70d more picky about cards?

[voltronic]

Yesterday, you didn't define if it was a current or past list.  What difference does it make if it's a current list or a past list...the issue is that there are cards on either list that don't work in the unit, right?

You're right - I didn't specify, but for all I know the list on the EU site right now is the only one ever posted and Tom was referring to the list we're seeing there now.  In any case, he has established that the current US list is the only one known to be correct at this time, and no one has shown any of those cards to have problems.

It's good to hear you're trying a card on the list - why don't you also send your card that doesn't work in to Tascam?

[voltronic]

The EU list is dated 2/3/2015.  Firmware 1.10 is dated 6/2/2015.  Firmware 1.11 is dated 6/26/2015.

I've wondered if the firmware updates made the 70d more picky about cards?

That's what several people here have been saying for a while, but again if you read my earlier post here, there isn't enough data at this time to support that.

The "Erase Format" feature in the new firmware was also mentioned but hasn't gotten much discussion.  For those that don't know the difference between a "quick" and a "full" format (same thing as "erase" in Tascam's terminology), read these descriptions:
http://www.digicamhelp.com/accessories/memory-cards/best-way-to-format-a-sd-memory-card/
http://pointoforigins.com/2014/01/20/quick-format-vs-normal-format-which-one-should-i-choose/
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/80478-tech-myth-2-quick-format-vs-full-format

Here's why you should care: "quick" formatting doesn't check for bad sectors.  I wonder if people who have problems have tried doing an "erase" format?  If the card itself is no good you might still have problems, but it's something free you can try.

EDIT: One caution to those reading the above articles - do not use the built-in Windows formatter to format SD cards, as it will format it in exFAT.  Many devices prefer FAT32, and that format was removed from Windows some time ago.  If you don't want to update to the 1.11 firmware and/or you prefer re-format using your computer, use the SD Formatter or FAT32Format which will allow you to do a "full" format in the correct filesystem.  You should then follow that up with at least a "quick" format in the recorder.

[stevetoney]

Yesterday, you didn't define if it was a current or past list.  What difference does it make if it's a current list or a past list...the issue is that there are cards on either list that don't work in the unit, right?

You're right - I didn't specify, but for all I know the list on the EU site right now is the only one ever posted and Tom was referring to the list we're seeing there now.  In any case, he has established that the current US list is the only one known to be correct at this time, and no one has shown any of those cards to have problems.

It's good to hear you're trying a card on the list - why don't you also send your card that doesn't work in to Tascam?

It no longer has any of the glitchy data on it.  I've since reformatted it and have been using it in the Zoom F8. 

Life In Rewind suggested a couple of ideas for testing and I'm going to try and make some time to try those out with the card I was using to see what happens.  But since it works well in my F8, I'm not sure about sending it out since I'll be getting a new card for the DR70D too.  Wonder if sending glitchy files electronically without the card would be any help to Tascam?  Probably not.

[voltronic]

Yesterday, you didn't define if it was a current or past list.  What difference does it make if it's a current list or a past list...the issue is that there are cards on either list that don't work in the unit, right?

You're right - I didn't specify, but for all I know the list on the EU site right now is the only one ever posted and Tom was referring to the list we're seeing there now.  In any case, he has established that the current US list is the only one known to be correct at this time, and no one has shown any of those cards to have problems.

It's good to hear you're trying a card on the list - why don't you also send your card that doesn't work in to Tascam?

It no longer has any of the glitchy data on it.  I've since reformatted it and have been using it in the Zoom F8. 

Life In Rewind suggested a couple of ideas for testing and I'm going to try and make some time to try those out with the card I was using to see what happens.  But since it works well in my F8, I'm not sure about sending it out since I'll be getting a new card for the DR70D too.  Wonder if sending glitchy files electronically without the card would be any help to Tascam?  Probably not.

You should ask them.  I think that's how the Microsoft engineers figured out the Win 10 / Sound Devices issue.  The MS rep on GS and JWSound asked people to send him disk images and Microsoft was able to analyze them.  That's much more involved than just one file though, and I think he gave them specific instructions on how to do it.

[morst]

am I the first to have noticed this, or did I miss it? It's posted in the first post of parts 1-4 of this thread...

From the EU tascam website http://www.tascam.eu/en/dr-70d.html

QUICK button allows easy access to various functions

My DR-70D lacks a button with the label "QUICK"

A search of the DR-70D reference manual does not even have the word "Quick" in it. 

ps if anyone wants to listen for glitches, my first noticeable ones are here (well, the opening set is unlistenable, but this is from the same card, same day) https://archive.org/details/Cracker2015-07-07
I don't recall how much processing I did to make them less obnoxious...

[voltronic]

am I the first to have noticed this, or did I miss it? It's posted in the first post of parts 1-4 of this thread...

From the EU tascam website http://www.tascam.eu/en/dr-70d.html

QUICK button allows easy access to various functions

My DR-70D lacks a button with the label "QUICK"

A search of the DR-70D reference manual does not even have the word "Quick" in it. 

Pretty obvious that's a misprint and they mean MENU.

Here are two more misprints on the features listed two lines above and two lines below that one:

• A new file can be created during recording

...

• Equalizers for playback, and level alignment function to enhance the perceived overall sound pressure

The first one should say: "will automatically create a new file every 2GB".  As for the second one: what equalizers for playback???

Besides these errors, some of the other features are not clearly stated.  The EU product page is poorly put together and looks like it wasn't given any attention after it was created.  They don't even have a full specifications listing - no gain levels, etc.  In contrast, the USA page for the 70D is much cleaner, more complete, and has significantly different language used to describe the features.

The EU site also has the old Reference Manual from December 2014; the new one has been on the USA site since August 25 of this year.

Finally, check out the very bottom of the EU 70D page:

Last modified: 2015-03-02 17:28:21 UTC

That's the same date the suspect media list on that site was posted.  (Remember that 02.03.2015 means 2nd of March, 2015 in European parlance.)

Take all of this together, and I think it's getting more and more plausible that someone was careless and posted the wrong media list in their downloads section.  If Tascam has something to answer for regarding the 70D, I think it's the false information on the EU site.

[2manyrocks]

BTW, if you look at the results of the card survey so far, there doesn't appear to be any correlation between firmware version and whether or not there are recording errors.  Out of 24 respondents, 11 reported errors.  The firmware of those 11 who reported errors was 1.11 (7), 1.10 (3), and 1.01 (1).  The fact that most of the people have 1.11 doesn't ring any bells for me, as it's the latest version and most people would update to stay current.

 

Summarizing the survey, version 1.00 one user no issue, version 1.01 one user with issue, version 1.02 two users no issues, then half of the version 1.1 users and half of the version 1.11 users reported issues.  7 of the 11 reported errors involved cards that were owned 0-1 years.  Of the cards that had errors, two were 32g, three were 64g, five were 16g and one was 8g. 

[noahbickart]

Look, I bought a card off the new list and it's on its way.  If it fixes everything, great...I'll STFU in this thread.  But Tascam still gets an F-Minus from me for for how they've handled this and this is absolutely the last Tascam product I ever buy.  If you guys want to keep drinking the kool-aid they're serving up, good luck to ya with that in the future.  All you're doing is enabling/providing cover for their poor customer service IMHO.

I think this is reasonable. I agree, it is lame that the Tascam does not work with the vast majority of cards, and this is a problem.

I just like the form factor and sound of the deck when it works correctly, and would love to get Tascam to make it work better if they can.

[jbosco]

Rather than engaging in conspiracy theories, has anyone actually acted on Tom's recommendation send their card containing errors to Tascam so they could analyze it?  You can self-congratulate yourselves all you want on your brilliant theories regarding Tascam's possible bait-and-switch, but at the end of the day, don't you want to see the problem fixed?  That's how Sound Devices solved their recent issue with Win 10 - users sent their cards or at least the disk images to SD and Microsoft, and they figured it out.  If in fact this is a problem with the recorder or firmware, why not try to help solve the problem?  When I spoke to him yesterday, he said that only one person had done this.

I contacted them last week and they got back to me over the weekend, they are going to arrange a pickup for my card.  FWIW the card still has the files with the glitches, however my problem was less then a second long, but does appear on both the main recording and the -6dB safety.

[johnmuge]

I erased the bad files but I do have them saved to my external hard drive.  I contacted Tascam to see if they want the card with the filed reloaded.  I did pick up a 16 GB Sandisk card that is on there good list.  Now I'm just contemplating on weather I upgrade the firmware to V1.11 or leave the V1.10 that has been running good. 

[morst]

Unreal.

They are denying that they have heard about this from more than two people. They admit that I have contacted support about this issue but claim that only one other user in the entire world has done so.

On September 29, 2015, the business provided the following information:
TASCAM has been an industry leading manufacturer of high quality yet affordable

multitrack recorders for over 40 years. There are times when the technology used in

the development of such recorders provide capabilities that are out in front of other

related products. In the case of the DR-70D, our initial tests on available media

(specifically SDXC media) has shown that they are not meeting the stringent

requirements of the unique recording capabilities of the DR-70D. The issue is not the DR-70D hardware but the available SDXC media.

Current tests are revealing a number of cards that do seem to meet the necessary requirements. Once all tests are completed, an updated list which includes the acceptable cards will be posted on our website.

Just for the record, of the thousands of DR-70D recorders we have sold since November of last year, outside of Mr. Scharff, there has only been one other user contact us (and that was today) concerning SDXC media.
 

https://sanjose.app.bbb.org/complaint/view/443623/c/h68r4v