Topic: explain the difference betwen 802.11n 2Ghz and 5Ghz?

[ArchivalAudio]

Ok
So in my other thread: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=139707.0

I am trying to figure out how I can get my wireless ou in my detached garage
I have already up graded to an current version Apple Airport Extreme : http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC340LL/A?mco=MTc4MzI5NzM#overview
Please note I am an Apple user see my sig. running OSX 10.6

and 2 powerline  Ethernet modules
I really don't want another router - I am looking at putting an USB  antenna on my computer end of the equation
and consider a few different units- that I could upgrade to an outdoor antenna in the even I still cannot get a strong signal

here is a good explanation showing  how n is a stronger signal http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/apple-tv/apple-tv-faq/what-is-802.11n-differences-between-802.11n-802.11a-802.11b-802.11g.html

a number of 802.11 units state they are n compatible - but only in the 2.4 Ghz range - and not in the 5Ghz range which according to apples info 5Ghz is the distance way to go
http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/productlist.php?CatID=32&FamID=60&ProdID=396  whic is compatible with a number of their other antenna products as stated in their data sheet

http://www.premiertek.net/products/networking/HT-H10DN.html

however on with the hawking
and other units they support n in the 2.4ghz range
interesting and perhaps conflicting inf on this product that I am not really considering: http://rokland.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=353

can some one help me figure out if I should worry about n 5Ghz or be happy with the 2.4 If I can connect?


thanx
--Ian

[page]

The big benefit I see in 5ghz N signal is speed and congestion. If you don't have a ton of other 802.11 signal to deal with from neighbors, or you are content with the speed differences (I still use 11b fwiw) then it's moot.

If on the other hand you do have a ton of congestion (or you need that speed for jumbo file transfers that you don't want to wait on), then the 5ghz signal might be nice as few other routers/cards are doing that right now.

That's my understanding of it, may not be correct, but it's my understanding.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

I didn't go through all of your links but one advantage of 5Ghz over 2.4Ghz is there is less interference from other devices with 5Ghz (since there aren't as many devices using that band). 2.4Ghz is used by many cordless phones.

One thing you can do to help with interference is to find a channel on your router that isn't used by other devices in the area. I live in a condo complex and used WiFi Analyzer for my Android phone to find a channel that wasn't used by anyone else in the area. I don't have any issues with distance because my townhome isn't very large, but it does help with speed for me. Finding an open channel should help with distance as well.

Both your router and your computers/devices will need the ability to use 5Ghz to take advantage of that band. Most routers that are dual band can be setup to use either 2.4 or 5Ghz, or both. Unless all of your device use 5Ghz it's best to set up your router as dual band (both 2.4 and 5Ghz). I think it's best to do that regardless so a guest that has a 2.4Ghz device can use your network. Basically with dual band you're going to have 2 choices on what band to connect to. To your computer it will look like 2 networks but your router will let all of your devices to talk to each other.

[ArchivalAudio]

thanx
I currently have both my airport and my iMac on 5ghz
but when I moved my computer to the garage  I couldn't see or get the 5Ghz network
only the 2.4  in n
I set the router up so I had separate names for each network variant  Awesome and Awesome 5Ghz
wondering if as I supposed the 5Ghz network should have a greater range than the 2.4Ghz

--Ian

[ArchivalAudio]

ok so 5ghz is not any faster than 2.4ghz ?
it will just likely have less traffic?

on the rokland link with the alpha antenna  here is what they state:

More about dual-band networking:

Dual band 802.11n wireless networking offers some advantages that single band 802.11n networking cannot, but there are some requirements and limitations. For starters, to take advantage of the dual-band capabilities of this or any 802.11n dual-band adapter, you must also have a dual-band 802.11n wireless router to which you are connecting. If you are connected to a single band 802.11n router, or an 802.11g router, you will not be able to utilize the 5 GHz functionality this product offers.

-When to use 5 GHz-

Many dual-band 802.11n routers will let you broadcast two network signals simultaneously, one 2.4 GHz signal and a separate 5 GHz signal. The 2.4 GHz band offers slower speeds, but can transmit over a further distance and penetrate obstacles better. The 5 Ghz band offers great speed improvement, but is not able to transmit as far.

· Use 5 GHz to stream video or transfer files from your router to your computer when in the same room as the router (or relatively close by)
· Use 2.4 GHz when you need to get a connection from further away
· Using 5 Ghz allows optimal 802.11n speed performances. Simultaneously running a 2.4 GHz signal will allow older 802.11g devices in your home to still connect to your wireless network.
· Use 5 GHz in a small apartment in a city area where there are a lot of 2.4 GHz networks in operation, creating lots of interference

Some dual band 802.11n routers, such as the early versions of the Apple Time Capsule, do not support simultaneous networks and require you to choose to broadcast either a 2.4 GHz signal or a 5 GHz signal. Note that when running a 5 GHz-only signal on these types of devices, older 802.11g or 802.11b devices will not be able to connect to it. In that case, if 5 GHz connectivity is desired, it is recommended to get one of these dual band Alfa devices for each compatible device in your home. This way they can all connect at 5 GHz.

does that make sense?

--Ian

[ArchivalAudio]

I guess what I was wondering specifically was the statement:

The 2.4 GHz band offers slower speeds, but can transmit over a further distance and penetrate obstacles better. The 5 Ghz band offers great speed improvement, but is not able to transmit as far.

would that be why I could get the 2.4ghz n network  in the garage but not the 5ghz network?

[printguy]

Do you transfer a lot of data between computers on your internal network? Or are you concerned about speed between your computer and the outside world aka the internet? What speed is your internet connection? Most versions of the 802.11 standard since 802.11a can transmit data faster than the average internet connection.... so unless your internet connection is faster than 54MBit the discussion about 2.4GHz vs 5GHz and 802.11g vs 802.11n is moot.

For distance go with 2.4GHz however if there are lots of other networks and wireless devices like portable phones around you may suffer interference. 5GHz is not used as much by other devices so you're less likely to suffer interference.

[ArchivalAudio]

^^^^ Thanx
no data between computers at all just a ton of live music bittorrents 
oh and I see my internet connection usually I can only seem to get between 5mbps and at best 11mbps
so n at 2.4ghz should work the best for what I need...
hopefully I can get my plan to work soon

--Ian

[rastasean]

the theoretical speeds of N far supersede the speeds of internet traffic for most home users. I agree that N should be tried since it is less likely to be congested but if it is not possible out in the garage, I wouldn't worry too much about it since you're not likely to gain that much speed. bittorrents are dependent on a lot of factors like how many seeders there are and the speeds they are seeding at. try downloading an lma mp3 zip of a show in the garage to see what speeds you're obtaining vs in your house, both wireless and wired just to be able to compare.

if you're noticing slow pages loading from either location, I suggest maybe using OpenDNS. What does this do? Well you register and they provide you two DNS (domain name servers) to use in place of the ones your internet service provider uses. What do you do with these numbers? Login to your router (usually http://192.168.1.1 in an internet browser) and replace the ISP with theirs. The configuration is really that simple. I did this about 3 months ago (and I believe it was printguy that made the recommendation) and I have noticed 100% decrease in timeouts and pages load much quicker. My computer is connected via cable but prior to the opendns, I would constantly receive page loading errors or very long delays, my two roommates who use wireless also noticed this. They haven't said anything since the change so I'm pretty positive everything resolved (no pun intended).

keep us posted!

btw, opendns is completely free.

[phanophish]

One drawback to the higher frequency spectrum is it has less ability to penetrate structures.  As frequencies get higher they do not penetrate as well.  This is why the Navy uses extremely low frequency radio transmissions to communicate with submarines.  There is not a massive difference between 2.4 & 5 Ghz, but there is some and if you are concerned about coverage within the garage it could be a factor...

I've done a lot of RF coverage mapping for wireless data networks and while you can apply some general rules distance & coverage wise there are just too many variables to offer definitive advice.  The only way to know for sure is test.  We used a product called AirMagnet for mapping RF coverage in our facility.  I think they have a 30 day trial you can download and it will more than handle a small job like a home & yard.  We did a 1.4 million Sq/ft warehouse with it and the demo if fully functional for the 30 days as I remember..

[ArchivalAudio]

^^^ hey  a big thanx to both 
rastasean
&
phanophish
I think this has helped me  a ton!

--Ian

I tried Open dns
but all is weell w/o them
 I am using 2.4 n with acceptable speeds so far
 still trying to move my computer to the garage - hopefully this weekend...

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

OpenDNS is pretty good, but to be sure you get the fastest DNS you can try this program:

http://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm

Google has some pretty fast DNS servers. (8.8.8.

I use Level 3's DNS since I live less than a mile from them.

[ArchivalAudio]

^^^^ thanx but it is no good to me
I run Mac OS X 10.6.5
no windows or real lynux
if there were a web based sort of thing that could work

--Ian