Topic: First approach to recording: choosing a recorder

[Deathmental]

Hello everybody. New around here. New at everything. Like the David Bowie song, Absolute Beginner.

I've been reading through the topics a lot, but I haven't found the answer I was searching for. The doubts arise from the fact that I'll be focusing more on phonography, not on taping live music. I want to record nature sounds, people talking, machine sounds, and so on.

So, as much as I hate to bother you, here are my questions.

The starting point is obviously the recorder. Now, I really can't decide, even after all the reading and comparing. My budget is limited.

Since I already own a microphone (even if it's far from perfect, I will first experiment with what I have), I was thinking about a dedicated unit (i.e. not something with built-in mics).
Is it a good idea?

The Tascam DR-70d or the DR-60d seem pretty popular around here, and I would like to stay in that price range (around 300 $). There's also a used Roland r-26 on sale for that price.

Keep in mind that I'm just starting. Thanks for your help.

P.S. It's nice to be here. It looks like a really nice place.

[pdastoor]

60d and all is probably a bit too much, you would be better of with a Roland R-05 or a Sony PCM-M10. Between the two, me and a lot of folks here would recommend getting the PCM-M10. It has a very very long battery life (I think around 50 hours on just two AA batteries). It has mic in and line in, very good inbuilt mics as well! Also a lot of retailers are discontinuing it, but there are some very good ones on ebay so get one from there before they become extinct. If you want to save more, get a used one in good condition. You can always get a separate preamp and connect that to the pcm-m10 to use XLR mics with.

[voltronic]

60d and all is probably a bit too much, you would be better of with a Roland R-05 or a Sony PCM-M10. Between the two, me and a lot of folks here would recommend getting the PCM-M10. It has a very very long battery life (I think around 50 hours on just two AA batteries). It has mic in and line in, very good inbuilt mics as well! Also a lot of retailers are discontinuing it, but there are some very good ones on ebay so get one from there before they become extinct. If you want to save more, get a used one in good condition. You can always get a separate preamp and connect that to the pcm-m10 to use XLR mics with.

I love the M10 also, but I strongly disagree that the 60D or 70D are overkill.  They're actually going to be a much better value for you than getting a M10 and external preamp to run your mics, which will probably run you about double your budget, total.  It used to be that recorders with built-in preamps for external mics were not good quality.  That's no longer the case with most of them, and the hundreds of users here who own those units get great results with them.

Besides saving money, you then have a one-box solution with the 60D or 70D, and also the ability to record 4 channels.  Even if you don't think that's useful now, you'll want it in the future.  Regardless of what mics you have now, I would think you would like the ability to use whatever you want in the future without having to add additional equipment to make those mics function.  In contrast, with the M10 you're locked into only 2 channels and using an external preamp.

The only times I find that I have to use my external preamp is when I need very high gain with very low noise.  Those situations are rare, and they really do require a professional-level product to deliver those results.  For everything else my 70D does it on its own, and that includes quiet choral and chamber music.

[mnm207]

As the OP's interest is in line with what/how I record and my skill/experience level, I have one counterpoint to Voltronic's response: a recorder with decent built in mics can be useful and convenient in that it puts nothing in the way of recording. I think for a beginner, there is value in the all in one device encouraging its own use. A DR-60D or similar will always needs that external mic which entails a larger commitment to record, requiring greater intentionality on the part of the user. 

Having just returned from a trip during which I recorded both indoors and outdoors, specific sounds and general spaces, that was my experience. Being able to record with only the recorder without needing to pull out external mics made things simpler. It made it easier to record. The recorder could always be in a pocket and ready to go.  In fact, I used my external mics far less than I'd anticipated. I was on vacation and traveling with others; had I been alone and traveling specifically to record sound then pulling out the external mics might have happened more.

All of that leaves aside questions of "quality" as well as the idea of future-proofing that Voltronic talks about.

[dogmusic]

a recorder with decent built in mics can be useful and convenient in that it puts nothing in the way of recording.

Not sure of their quality, but the DR-70D has built in mics.

[voltronic]

a recorder with decent built in mics can be useful and convenient in that it puts nothing in the way of recording.

Not sure of their quality, but the DR-70D has built in mics.

Right, or possibly the new DR-100MkIII if the price drops to a reasonable level (though that's only 2 inputs).  My point is that you might as well get something that allows you greater flexibility down the road if the price is nearly the same.

[angelo sixo]

i know im the odd ball but i like my zoom h5 better than the m10 , i can use xlr cables with my mics i can set lo cut filters and comp real easy control gain easy run stereo or multi file and to get around the battery life thing i just plug it into a small portable rechargeable power bank like for a cell phone  runs 48 phantom power to my mics for hours depending on your power bank
 

[Sonus Captor]

Hi Deathmental,

welcome to the forum!

For your needs a Tascam D-70D plus a matched pair of Rode NT5's would be a nice combination with a
very good sound quality for the money.
http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Rode/NT5
The Tascam has decent built-in mics, though.

In case you want to record very quiet nature sounds a matched pair of Rode NT1-A's would be an option,
since they have very low self-noise:
http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Rode/NT1-A
https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/type/www/audio-reports/Rode_NT1-A_Mics/NT1-A_index.htm
http://www.neumann.com/homestudio/en/what-is-self-noise-or-equivalent-noise-level

You should be able to get all of this gear used on the net.

[Deathmental]

I had already ruled out the PCM-M10. I still can't decide what I should buy between the DR-60d, the DR-70d and the Roland R-26. I guess I should focus on these three factors: preamps quality (should be the same for the two tascams, but the DR-70d costs about 100 us dollars more), ease of use (no way of knowing about this), flexibility (more channels, and so on).
The used Roland R-26 is very tempting, at 300 us dollars.

[dogmusic]

preamps quality (should be the same for the two tascams, but the DR-70d costs about 100 us dollars more)

I could be wrong about this, but I believe the preamps in the DR-70d are improved over the 60d.

[pdastoor]

If you want something that is easy to use and has very good preamps, the Zoom H4N Pro is a nice affordable option. Another one is the Tascam dr701d (upgrade to the 70d)

[voltronic]

Another one is the Tascam dr701d (upgrade to the 70d)

I'd go with the 60D or 70D; the 701 is pretty overpriced for what it is, given the solid audio performance of the two cheaper Tascams.  I'd save the money and put it toward better mics.  The $300 difference would get you something quite decent.

[pdastoor]

I know it's overpriced but the ability to monitor all inputs individually is missing in the 70d, other than that I agree with him you can get the 70d if you don't really need the monitor option

[Deathmental]

First of all, let me thank you for your answers. Thank you people 

I found a new dr70-d for 300 dollars. Since I'm quite short on cash, I'd like to know: can I use it right out of the box or do I (really) need something else?

Things like headphones, memory cards, battery boxes... Is that stuff really essential?

[goodcooker]

First of all, let me thank you for your answers. Thank you people 

I found a new dr70-d for 300 dollars. Since I'm quite short on cash, I'd like to know: can I use it right out of the box or do I (really) need something else?

Things like headphones, memory cards, battery boxes... Is that stuff really essential?

Get a cheap 5V battery used to recharge cell phones. I bought a couple of 6000mAh ones for 10 bucks last week. It will run for quite a while and you won't have to sweat about the batteries. Put some AAs in as a back up just in case.

You will need an SD card unless it shipped with one. Use one from the approved list on Tascam's site.

I should have chimed in earlier...I have a Tascam DR60d. I like it a lot. I find the built in preamps to be perfectly adequate and it records 4 channels (2 XLR and 11/8th" mini).
Not finicky about SD cards and it's very inexpensive (you could get a new mkii on Amazon for $180 and could prob find a better deal on a used one).

[Fried Chicken Boy]

Things like headphones, memory cards, battery boxes... Is that stuff really essential?

You will need an SD card unless it shipped with one. Use one from the approved list on Tascam's site.

At least one memory card is essential as that is what your files will record to; no recording media = no recording.  But like the first two rules of 'Fight Club', the first two rules of using a Tascam DR-70D are the same: you MUST only use an SD card from the approved list on Tascam's website.  Other SD cards might work but you will be setting yourself up for potential failure, headaches, and lost recordings. 

Regarding battery boxes do you mean external powering of the recorder, or the powering boxes for miniature microphones?  If it's external powering you're after, goodcooker's suggestion of rechargeable 5v cell phone batteries is a solid one.  Why go through AA batteries when cell phone recharge batteries are cheap and plentiful?  Put the AAs in your recorder as a backup.  If you're talking about true battery boxes, it depends on what microphones you are using with the -70D.  If you can run the mics off P48 power, you won't require a battery box. 

While not essential, an inexpensive set of ear buds or IEMs can be very useful in the field.  A quick listen can ensure that you don't have any bad connections in your signal chain (humming, buzzing, no signal at all, etc.) or other anomalies that can affect your recording.