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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: George2 on April 14, 2015, 11:05:22 AM
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Supposed to be about $1000.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ain4-2IsT4
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I like how my H6 works/records but have never been thrilled about the design. The F8 is bag ergo friendly in appearance and the 8 ch. is appealing just to have as an option, as I have used all 6 channels on the H6 a few times.
Hopefully they have some of the options that they didn't have in the H6/H5, such as a possible S/PDIF or AES3 in or Out for a start.
Would dump the DR70D for this one. Gotta love the new product that keeps coming out!
Thanks for the post and info
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Supposed to be about $1000.
It'll be interesting to find out how it sounds. It looks like it's aimed at dialog recordists; it's a very bag friendly design. But so is the SD 788T, and we know how many Tapers and in particular classical recordists have made that a favorite for music.
It looks very small and I'm hoping it's pretty light. I wonder how Tascam will react; it looks to undercut the HS-P82. But again, depends on what it sounds like.
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More info here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocfWiHoMk1Y&feature=youtu.be
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I hope they've upgraded the preamps. They are really noisy for the H6 and inconsistent. In other words, channels 5-6 are louder than 1-4.
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New pre's would be nice on an upgrade. I like the dual SD card capability as well as the Time Code addition. "Locking" XLR upgrade is nice, especially for use in a bag.
Full color screen with anti-glare...nice! I assume it will have a 192 kHz capability exceeding the H5 & H6 96 kHz max. Would make sense if they are putting this up against the R-88, DR-680MKII or HS-P82.
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Well, the proof is in the performance, but visually, they are using the proven SD style casing, providing individually adjustable channels, apparently giving individual channel info on the meters, and including a nice color bar meters for the overall input.
If the preamps are on par with the competition and if the timecode works well for $1,000, Zoom will have positioned itself quite nicely between the $2,000 R-88 and the $629 DR680mkii (functionally 6 channel/ no timecode) and who knows what other recorders.
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I hope they've upgraded the preamps. They are really noisy for the H6 and inconsistent. In other words, channels 5-6 are louder than 1-4.
I'm interested to know what sort of jobs you used the H6 for, where you found the preamps really noisy.
I've used mine for dialogue with a boom mic and live music recording, and I've found the preamps to be fine.
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I pre my Zoom H6, but I have never had an issue with 1-4 v. 5-6 either?
On a side note, here's a link for some better images of the prototype F8
http://fr.audiofanzine.com/enregistreur-poche/zoom/f8/news/a.play,n.29020.html (http://fr.audiofanzine.com/enregistreur-poche/zoom/f8/news/a.play,n.29020.html)
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Here's a somewhat detailed video posted at B&H:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/audio/news/nab-2015-first-look-zoom-f8-q8-recorders
It sounds like they're aiming for an end-of-year release. At this point, there doesn't appear to be a digi in/out.
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Aren't those all outputs in the top row and inputs 5-8 below?
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audBall, sorry, deleted my post about digi in when I realised (a) I meant the back not the side and (b) what I was looking at was timecode not digi in/out.
Anyway, impressive looking unit in any event! Just when I thought that we were near the limits of what was possible and of price/performance, these innovative companies still come back with more!
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^ Gotcha. I actually thought the same exact thing when I first saw the back of the unit. It is impressive and I look forward to hearing more.
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I had a thought ::)
It appears that the H6 and H5 microphones can be used on the F8 with an extension cable, will that cable be able to used with the H5/H6 to remote mount the supplied mics ?
The connector on the back of the F8 looks similar to the one on my H6.
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The head mikes, with line in, channels 5-6, run way hotter than the stock body channels, 1-4. Whether its all line in or a combination of audience and line in, the snap on head always run way hotter, by 1-2 numerical values.
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Zoom NA has posted new info in re. to the F8. Has a buy now link too, but not available yet. Has Bluetooth too, which I don't remember them noting this earlier during the NAB.
https://zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-f8-multitrack-field-recorder (https://zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-f8-multitrack-field-recorder)
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Zoom NA has posted new info in re. to the F8. Has a buy now link too, but not available yet.
Sweetwater and Full Compass have it up, say it will be shipping in a week or two.
This looks like a GREAT machine, if.....
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but does it have internal mics and can it be held up at a Ryan Adams show? ;D
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That's a nice looking recorder. Has a nice feature set & 8 channels for $1k, I hope more manufacturers take the hint. Competition is good!
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Really is nice looking, particularly for the cost.
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I only wish they had an AES3 or an S/PDIF option as an extra output feature.
Ergo wise, it is a great size and setup for an audio bag situation and with a color display like on the H6. A 4-pin Hirose connector is a plus!
•8-channel/10-track field audio recorder/mixer
•8 discrete inputs with locking Neutrik XLR/TRS combo connectors
•Compact and lightweight aluminum chassis, weighing just 2 pounds (without batteries)
•High quality mic preamps with up to 75 dB gain, less than -127 dBu EIN, and +4 dB line inputs
•Support for up to 24-bit/192 kHz recording as well as 96 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 48k, and 44.1 kHz, plus 47.952 kHz / 48.048 kHz for HD video compatibility; 16-/24-bit resolution
•Accurate Time Code (0.2 ppm) I/O on standard BNC connectors; dropframe/non-drop formats with Jam Sync
•Three different power supply options: 8x AA batteries, external DC battery pack with Hirose connector, or 12V AC adapter (AA’s and DC battery pack not included)
•Automatic switching of power source from DC to batteries at user-defined voltage levels
•Dedicated gain control knob, 6-segment LED level meter, and PFL/Solo switch for each channel
•Phantom power (+48V/+24V) on every preamp
•Advanced onboard limiters for input and output
•High pass filter, phase invert, and Mid-Side decoder
•Input delay of up to 30 msec per channel / output delay of up to 10 frames per output
•Compatible with Zoom microphone capsules; optional extender cable enables remote positioning
•Dual mini-XLR (TA3) balanced Main Outs plus ⅛" stereo mini-jack Sub Out
•Dedicated headphone output (100 mW) with front panel volume control
•2.4" full-color backlit LCD with monochrome mode
•Dedicated PFL display with viewable trim settings
•Dual SD/SDHC/SDXC card slots, up to 512 GB each
•Records in BWF-compliant WAV or MP3 file formats
•Support for extensive metadata (BWF and iXML); input time, date, project, scene number, etc.
•Built-in slate mic/slate tone with front panel switch
•Built-in tripod mount; camera mount adapter also included
•Use as an 8-in/4-out USB audio interface (@ 96 kHz)
•Free Zoom F8 Control App for iOS allows wireless remote control, file renaming, and metadata entry
Looking at the specs and price, I will definitely take a shot (Pre-ordered at B&H) with an Zoom F8, especially since the DR-70D I had was returned for a warranty refund...nice timing ;)
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Few things I wish it had:
Gangable gain control across multiple channels.
Individual channel analog outs (all 8 on one multi-pin connector is fine, as space is scarce).
EQ (cool that it does have phase-invert and delay).
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I agree, I've fallen in love with the gangable gain control of the DR680, using one knob to adjust channels has been a huge help at times.
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I can understand the gain knob for all channels, as I have that control when running mics and or a line through my SD552, even if I D-Link the SD MixPre-D for the extra 2 channels I can still control that aspect.
However, maybe I am reading the F8's website description wrong ? •Dedicated gain control knob, 6-segment LED level meter, and PFL/Solo switch for each channel
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I agree, I've fallen in love with the gangable gain control of the DR680, using one knob to adjust channels has been a huge help at times.
I can't imagine not having that running multitrack.
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Yeah, as the channel count grows, the more valuable the ganging feature becomes. For us at least.
To accommodate individual rotary knob control for each channel, the gain pots would need to be 'endless' rotary encoders (with no hard full clockwise or counter clockwise position). In that case the gain would need to be indicated on the screen (should be anyway). Relative knob position would need to be indicated by an LED array on or around each knob, similar to digital consoles, but is relative knob position really needed? I wouldn't care if not as long as gain is indicated on the screen.
I think I recall "channel gain ganging" was added as a feature to the R88 via later firmware update. I wonder how that works with its gain controls, which seem identical to those on the R44.
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Yeah, as more channels are become involved, the more valuable the ganging feature becomes. For us at least.
To accommodate individual rotary knob control for each channel, I the gain pots would need to be 'endless' rotary encoders (with no hard full clockwise or counter clockwise position). In that case the gain would need to be indicated on the screen (should be anyway). Relative knob position would need to be indicated by an LED array on or around each knob, similar to digital consoles, but is relative knob position really needed. I wouldn't care if not as long as gain is indicated on the screen.
The rudimentary description of the wifi function says the following...
Functions include Record, Play, Stop, Fast-Forward, and Rewind, plus mixer pan and fader level. You can also monitor input levels, current time code, and battery status. With Zoom F8 Control, you can rename files, enter metadata, and set date/time information directly from your iOS device.
Even though the gain controls on the front are limited rotation knobs and appear to be analog level control gain pots, clearly all of the mixer functionality of this recorder is digital and software driven from the front touchpad. Some of the basic controls are also available remotely via wifi. I'd be pretty sure that each of the channels can be written to the SD card pre or post-fader, especially since it says that the headphone functionality allows for pre and post fader monitoring. I can't imagine why they wouldn't have written a routine into the digital mixer to enable ganging of channels digitally in any combination you want when you're writing to the SD card post-fader.
I think I recall "channel gain ganging" was added as a feature to the R88 via later firmware update. I wonder how that works with its gain controls, which seem identical to those on the R44.
The R44 doesn't have a mixer for user definable output routing, does it?
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I'm probably gonna sell my 722 , perhaps my zoom h6 as well. This looks to be the right size for my gear bag, seeing as I run 8 mics right now. We'll see how I like the sound compared to the sd.
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POWER SUPPLIES
Batteries:
8 AA
AC adapter:
AD-19 DC12V 2A (center plus)
External DC power supply:
HIROSE HR10A-7R-4S 4-pin connector
(1 pin: −, 4 pin: +), 9–16 V
Looks like the pins are the same as the sd 722, I'll be able to use my tekkeons to power this too.
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I'm probably gonna sell my 722 , perhaps my zoom h6 as well. This looks to be the right size for my gear bag, seeing as I run 8 mics right now. We'll see how I like the sound compared to the sd.
Before selling your 722, a head to head recording comparison would be +
I sort of wish Zoom had also used Sony type L batteries instead of AAs. The runtime on all 8 channels with phantom as I recall is about an hour.
The outside of the F8 with the aluminum case looks like Zoom has stepped it up, but the question will be if the internals are comparable to SD.
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No question the features, as described, are really nice, as is the price. The big question still remains though -- what does it sound like? Until we can get that answered to our satisfaction, the true attractiveness of this unit remains speculative. I am certainly looking forward to seeing some comparative reviews and listening to some pulls. If it sounds at least as good as the DR70, it will be a no-brainer. A great time to be a taper! ;D
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Really looking forward to hearing some feedback on this, especially versus the SD.
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The rudimentary description of the wifi function says the following...
Functions include Record, Play, Stop, Fast-Forward, and Rewind, plus mixer pan and fader level. You can also monitor input levels, current time code, and battery status. With Zoom F8 Control, you can rename files, enter metadata, and set date/time information directly from your iOS device.
Even though the gain controls on the front are limited rotation knobs and appear to be analog level control gain pots, clearly all of the mixer functionality of this recorder is digital and software driven from the front touchpad. [snip]
Nothing there directly indicates the ability to remotely change individual channel preamp input gain (trim/level), only monitor them. It sounds to me like just the level/pan mix of the 8 channels down to the 2-ch bus can be remotely manipulated.
I think I recall "channel gain ganging" was added as a feature to the R88 via later firmware update. I wonder how that works with its gain controls, which seem identical to those on the R44.
The R44 doesn't have a mixer for user definable output routing, does it?[/quote]
No, but the R88 does. I was just noting that the R88's co-axial input-level/sensitivity pots are identical to those on the R44 - standard non-motorized, non "infinite-turn" rotary encoder pots. Point being that once channels are ganged and adjusted, the position markings and rotation range of the physical knobs will no longer correspond with the actual input level/sensitivity settings.
Just checked and a firmware update did add channel ganging for the R88. The update note says this: "To adjust the linked input level or sensitivity, use the knob of the first channel in the group." So presumably, when ganged the physical knobs on the face of the unit controlling all members of the group except the first channel in it are deactivated. Without trying it out or digging further I'm unsure how that works when the level/sensitivity is set differently for each channel in the group and one channel gets to the end of it's range before the others while the entire group is being adjusted using the one physical knob. Presumably, like the DR-680 it limits the available range of adjustment to whatever the common overlap range is between all channels the group. In other words, if you were to start with one channel's level fully up and another fully down, then link them, turning the knob would do nothing as there would be no available "common range" between those the two extreme settings.
That scheme could also be applied to the F8 if it isn't already. The user would just need to learn to ignore the position indicators of the physical input level knobs of the rest of the channels in the group.
But more ideal would be having endless rotary encoder pots for each channel. Then the user could turn the knob of any channel in the group to adjust the entire group, with no erroneous position indicators for any channel.
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I'm probably gonna sell my 722 , perhaps my zoom h6 as well. This looks to be the right size for my gear bag, seeing as I run 8 mics right now. We'll see how I like the sound compared to the sd.
Most likely will do the same with my ZoomH6 and sell it. F8 notes that it has upgraded the pre's from the H6, so I am assuming this is a step up in that direction. I can not compare to the SD722, although I will keep my SD552 & SDMixPre-D.
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Just checked and a firmware update did add channel ganging for the R88.
I can't imagine that this Zoom wouldn't have similar functionality, either now or through a firmware update. My earlier comment was only to show that there's significant functionality of the unit at the firmware/software stages...the ganging function doesn't need to be designed into the unit via hardware controls. Your comments indicates that's the case for the R88. The point is that, though there are delimited knobs on the front I don't think that should lead to any assumption that the channels cannot be linked.
But more ideal would be having endless rotary encoder pots for each channel. Then the user could turn the knob of any channel in the group to adjust the entire group, with no erroneous position indicators for any channel.
FWIW, with eight separate gain knobs I much prefer the delimited gain knobs on the front panel to eight infinite digital knobs since it provides a visual indication of the relative settings between channels. Yeah, with a design like the DR680 where a single knob is used to adjust gain for all channels, the infinite knob is the only logical choice, but on recorder designs where there's one knob per channel, I think most if not all of them use delimited gain controls.
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Any manufacturer can make a cheap recorder with a bunch of "features." Unless you don't care about what you're doing, the only thing that really matters is quality control and reliability. I'm not suggesting that the Zoom doesn't have that -- I've never used it -- but I'm amused at the bandwagon-jumping that accompanies almost every new recorder release by almost every manufacturer. There's a reason why the M10 and SD units (in particular) pop up over and over again among the people who are actually out recording the most, while lots of other things don't similarly stand the test of time.
If a manufacturer is matching the feature set of something else that costs 2-5X as much, it causes me to at least question what corners they cut to attain that price point. But who knows, recorder prices do fall, and sometimes you get lucky. Just my $0.02.
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The community would be better served by buying one unit for a panel of experienced tapers to test, getting their assessment, and then everybody can decide if they really want one. That probably makes better financial sense than 20 people spending $1,000, half of those deciding to resell later at a loss. Or be up front with a dealer and say we're going to test the stew out of this thing for 30 days. Put it up against a Sound Devices and do a comp against a checklist of what we want (accurate meters, good preamps, run time, etc)
My problem with some of the reviews on the dealer websites is some appeared to me to be cooked because there were known issues with a particular recorder, and yet these guys were posting 5 stars with no mention of the known issues. And then there are the guys who really don't have the experience to really evaluate a unit against the other options.
And then there's the fact of life that some drawbacks aren't immediately apparent and take several months for people to start saying, hey, I really don't like A, B or C about this.
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No question the features, as described, are really nice, as is the price. The big question still remains though -- what does it sound like? Until we can get that answered to our satisfaction, the true attractiveness of this unit remains speculative. I am certainly looking forward to seeing some comparative reviews and listening to some pulls. If it sounds at least as good as the DR70, it will be a no-brainer. A great time to be a taper! ;D
Yeah, to me, despite a few shortcomings, this is a hell of a bargain if it sounds in the ballpark of a 7xx, good solid fairly transparent sound, a one box without too much compromise. Zoom has yet to prove it can deliver. I didn't wait on picking up another 661 because I wanted a backup and want to run two rigs at times, and wasn't willing to jump on this because of the noise issues of zoom products.
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For myself I don't care about the preamps since I run external ones & how the ADC sounds is difficult to determine so I'm more concerned about functionality & more important, reliability. This is a pretty exciting product in my opinion if it's reliable, I can work around the rest.
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If a manufacturer is matching the feature set of something else that costs 2-5X as much, it causes me to at least question what corners they cut to attain that price point. But who knows, recorder prices do fall, and sometimes you get lucky. Just my $0.02.
Generally speaking, I think our community proves out that you get what you pay for. If someone ever expected SD quality and performance when they bought a DR680, then you're simply being unrealistic.
To a degree, costs can be cut without sacrificing out-of-box product quality, such as by off-shoring design and manufacturing labor and decreasing the warranty terms. For example, I know for a fact that in my industry VERY high quality engineering labor is available from contracting companies in India for around 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of US based design engineering labor. I'm not sure how much of the Sound Devices products are US based...probably a fair percentage from design through manufacture.
But, yes the quality of materials would be something I'd look into on this unit. At $1000, it's not a minimal investment item, but then again you don't have to use it much to get your moneys worth.
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If a manufacturer is matching the feature set of something else that costs 2-5X as much, it causes me to at least question what corners they cut to attain that price point. But who knows, recorder prices do fall, and sometimes you get lucky. Just my $0.02.
There's also the repair and support side to consider. If you buy a more expensive recorder, you'll get perks such as the manufacturer priority shipping you a replacement unit as soon as you send yours in for repair, 24 hour phone support, or the dealer getting a good enough profit margin that they will cushion you with loaners and quick turn around in the event of a problem. Those are the corners that don't even exist in the budget category of recorders.
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I'm probably gonna sell my 722 , perhaps my zoom h6 as well. This looks to be the right size for my gear bag, seeing as I run 8 mics right now. We'll see how I like the sound compared to the sd.
Before selling your 722, a head to head recording comparison would be +
I sort of wish Zoom had also used Sony type L batteries instead of AAs. The runtime on all 8 channels with phantom as I recall is about an hour.
The outside of the F8 with the aluminum case looks like Zoom has stepped it up, but the question will be if the internals are comparable to SD.
I would definitely wait until a comparison
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I can't imagine that this Zoom wouldn't have similar functionality, either now or through a firmware update. My earlier comment was only to show that there's significant functionality of the unit at the firmware/software stages...the ganging function doesn't need to be designed into the unit via hardware controls. Your comments indicates that's the case for the R88. The point is that, though there are delimited knobs on the front I don't think that should lead to any assumption that the channels cannot be linked.
I'm just addressing the actual reported functionality for the F8, not speculating on what's possible. I've wondered how channel ganging could be implemented with standard rotation-limited delimited pots and only this morning looked it up to figure out how Roland added that feature to the R88. The R88 was not initially designed this way, and it's rather obvious to me that the addition of the feature is a "catch-up" to the Tascam channel ganging function. The Roland approach as I described above works, and is relevant because it could be applied to the F8 (may already be, but I doubt it as it's not mentioned anywhere a feature).
But more ideal would be having endless rotary encoder pots for each channel. Then the user could turn the knob of any channel in the group to adjust the entire group, with no erroneous position indicators for any channel.
FWIW, with eight separate gain knobs I much prefer the delimited gain knobs on the front panel to eight infinite digital knobs since it provides a visual indication of the relative settings between channels. Yeah, with a design like the DR680 where a single knob is used to adjust gain for all channels, the infinite knob is the only logical choice, but on recorder designs where there's one knob per channel, I think most if not all of them use delimited gain controls.[/quote]
Yes, they do, and therein lies the problem. If adjusting the input level of each channel independently, sure, the visual indication of the knob makes their positions obvious. But once ganged, the visual indication of all the the knobs in the group except the first will be lying to you.. (and I assume they will be deactivated). In my opinion that is far from ideal. I'd much rather have any knob in the group adjust level for the entire group rather than a bunch of non-fucntioning knobs, and I'd much rather have no physical position indication on each knob rather than misleading position indications, effectively lying to me. The addition of LEDs around the knobs (or expensive motorized pots) solves the position indication problem, but adds considerable expense.
Channel ganging and rotation-limited delimited (non-motorized) input level pots simply do not work well together.
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Unless you don't care about what you're doing, the only thing that really matters is quality control and reliability.
This isn't true for everyone. I could probably compensate for quality control and reliability issues by buying two (or even three) Zoom F8 and having the spares on hand if the first has issues. I'm still 2 to 3 grand ahead though there's no way of knowing at this point if any of the Zooms will be working 20 years from now.
I've bought and sold X SD recorders over the years (I think I'm up to 5). I love them and swear by them absolutely, but for my purposes I find myself always weighing the incremental investment against other stuff I need. Eventually, there's always something else I need so the SD gets sold and I buy a less expensive, but equally functional consumer grade recorder.
I'm not a pro, but to make up for the lower confidence level of consumer grade recorders I use, I have a number of redundant recorders. I may or may not have them with me, though when I go to a festival I always pack back-ups in the car because there's nothing worse than going to a fest and having something fail on you on Day 1 and you can't record the rest of the weekend.
Admittedly, for a pro if there's a quality issue with the Zoom that causes you to lose an important shoot or client, the investment difference suddenly becomes a moot point.
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Channel ganging and rotation-limited delimited (non-motorized) input level pots simply do not work well together.
OK, I understand your comment now and this conclusion.
All I was suggesting is that, once channel ganging is engaged, regardless of whether the knobs are delimited or not (non-motorized), you'll be monitoring levels based on what you see on the input screen, not based on what your knobs are set at, so at that point whether the knobs are delimited or not is kinda moot since in either case the knobs aren't telling you anything meaningful. At least when they aren't ganged that isn't the case. Since I've usually operated my multi-track recording in non-ganged mode, I've liked having the delimited knobs. I totally see your point about them being in 'false positions' though.
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Any manufacturer can make a cheap recorder with a bunch of "features." Unless you don't care about what you're doing, the only thing that really matters is quality control and reliability. I'm not suggesting that the Zoom doesn't have that -- I've never used it -- but I'm amused at the bandwagon-jumping that accompanies almost every new recorder release by almost every manufacturer. There's a reason why the M10 and SD units (in particular) pop up over and over again among the people who are actually out recording the most, while lots of other things don't similarly stand the test of time.
If a manufacturer is matching the feature set of something else that costs 2-5X as much, it causes me to at least question what corners they cut to attain that price point. But who knows, recorder prices do fall, and sometimes you get lucky. Just my $0.02.
No question that Zoom's implementation of their feature set and the reliability of the machine will be important. Given the price of the unit, however, there is probably some flex in what might be acceptable in that regard. I agree that I am not really expecting SD quality at that price, but I am more likely to make some (limited) accomodations for how well the unit works and quality control, than on noisy preamps.
It will be real interesting to see some real world hands-on reviews, as opposed to the feature recitation fluff that is currently in all the trade magazines. They certainly have put a marketing push on in the last couple weeks since all the magazines and blogs have articles.
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Two separate and diverging dynamics are at play with regards to the cost for quality in this category of things:
Support, physical build-quality, and quality analog circuitry are what cost money. These things either tend to get more costly or at least do not get much less costly over time. However, outside of the analog input section (read: the preamps, though even cheap gear tends to have far better analog input stages they a decade or two back) most of the sound quality and features follow much more closely with other digital devices.. Moore's law and all that. In light of that it's not surprising that sound quality and features which were unheard of only a decade ago become increasingly available at very low cost as long as the device can leverage economy of scale and be inexpensively mass produced overseas.
This trend will certainly continue. The SoundDevice category of manufacturers will increasingly be valued for differentiation on service, build-quality, and reliability, and perhaps by the ability to more carefully target the needs of their smaller nitch markets, but less and less so for differentiation based on sound quality alone, against the Tascam, and Zoom type category of manufacturers.
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I'm not sure if this topic or the "Batteries" section is the best place for the following, so here goes.
I own two 20,000 mAh Li-Ion batteries, one of which is a Power Gorilla (very nice piece of equipment) which I use to power my current DR-680 (Mk I). The Power Gorilla comes with a whole bunch of different plugs, mostly for various laptops, cell phones and such. Judging by the pics and text of the Zoom F8, one of those plugs should fit the 12v AC Adapter connector on the back. And I expect that will work fine.
However, the 4-pin hirose connector on the side apparently can be setup in such a way that it automatically switches to internal batteries when voltage gets low. So it would be nice to be able to hook a Li-Ion battery up to that.
Any suggestions on large Li-Ion batteries that come with a hirose connector? Alternatively, are there adapters from the laptop style connector to a hirose connector? Unfortunately, I soldering isn't an option for me (I don't have the equipment). Other ideas?
Regards, Christine
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Oh, and something else on the Zoom F8.
From the pics it looks like there are no hardware buttons to turn phantom power on and off, but you will have to dig into a menu to do that? Or at least use the touch screen? I am really looking forward to reading the manual on this thing.
Regards, Christine
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Christine, anyone of the numerous cable makers here will be able to make you a cable once the deck is available. Hirose connectors are small making them difficult to work with but once the pin assignments are known it will be an easy fix for you.
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^ what Carl said...this is easy pickin's for one of our cable guys. The specs on the hirose are already stated on their website as...
HIROSE HR10A-7R-4S 4-pin connector
(1 pin: −, 4 pin: +), 9–16 V
You'd just need to know which connector you want on the battery end so that they can install the right connector to mate up properly with your battery.
For your second question, phantom power is menu selectable, just as it is on a number of other recorders. For example, on the DR70D, each XLR input has an optional phantom menu item with the three menu options being off, 24v, or 48v.
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Oh, and something else on the Zoom F8.
From the pics it looks like there are no hardware buttons to turn phantom power on and off, but you will have to dig into a menu to do that? Or at least use the touch screen? I am really looking forward to reading the manual on this thing.
Regards, Christine
The H6 and H5 have the phantom power setup in a menu setting of which is very easy to navigate. I can only assume from the info and pics available that this will be the same for the F8.
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Christine, anyone of the numerous cable makers here will be able to make you a cable once the deck is available. Hirose connectors are small making them difficult to work with but once the pin assignments are known it will be an easy fix for you.
I expect that once this recorder is released, there will be a rush on Hirose power cables here. Pretty much everyone who buys an F8 will want one and supply will meet demand.
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If you happen to have a few NP-1 NiCd batteries available, it's easy to get and or purchase an Audio NP-1 Cup Adapter with 4-pin Hirose Connection. They are not all that expensive or hard to find. Plenty of people on this forum that can make the adapters as well for different battery-power solutions. Video Cam & SD users will have no problems, as most already power their devices with an outboard Hirose 4-pin connector, pin-4 = (+), pin-1 = (-) power connection
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The H6 and H5 have the phantom power setup in a menu setting of which is very easy to navigate. I can only assume from the info and pics available that this will be the same for the F8.
I don't own an H5 or H6, but just checked the H6 manual. If I understand correctly, to turn phantom power on/off you have to press a menu button, then sequentially select "INPUT&OUTPUT", "Phantom", and "On/Off". And that for each channel. So if you are recording 8 mics on an F8, to me that sounds like quite a bit of scolling and clicking around (no offense!). At least it isn't as quick as on a DR-680 where it's a flip of a (hardware) switch.
Regards, Christine
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If being difficult means that it can take up to 10 seconds to make active or deactive for PH, then it may be an issue LOL
I have a H6 and I can scroll into the phantom power in less time than I can on a Sound Device 552 or 664. I also can activate or deactivate the PH in 1/2 the time as when I was using a Tascam DR-70D. Sounds like you have your mind made up on the recorder and that is fine.
I would suggest going the Tascam 680 route if the PH time to activate on a touch screen menu is a problem....no offense! I find it very fast on the H6 to get to and adjust; as well as they have one touch screen button option in the power settings for phantom for activating all or deactivating all...takes me maybe 10 seconds at the most.
I will be happy to give a full review once my pre-ordered F8 arrives.
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This recorder is designed for Sound Professionals running in a bag in the field where most controls need to be on the front of the unit. You will typically have wireless receivers on the top or bottom of the unit in the bag.
Due to the size of the unit it doesn't make a whole lot of sense cluttering up the front with various switches - most Professional recorders don't have phantom power switches but instead rely on menu settings (Sound Devices 7 series, Sonosax, Aeta, etc) To Note - Some pro recorders do have assignable function buttons.
The DR-680 was not designed to be a Professional recorder although many people use it for that.
I have an hs-p82 and only switches on the unit other then the on switch are line/-25 mic/mic switches
When doing professional work it may even be advantageous not to have these (switches) where you might accidentally trip one and kill your recording.
Also your settings are saved during power offs so you can set everything up at home and when out and about point and click.
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I actually like what I have seen and read of the Zoom F8 very much and intend to seriously look at getting one. And I do realize that the DR-680 isn't a professional piece of equipment :)
The thing on my mind is that I am sometimes asked by the conductor of my band to record bits and pieces of a rehearsal, but to turn things off in between (I guess he doesn't want his comments to be recorded). So I might record 5 minutes, then nothing for 20 minutes, then another 5 minutes. To save on battery I usually turn (at least) phantom off in between. After all it's just the flick of two switches for the 4 mics I usually use. On the other hand, I know from experience that the 20,000 mAh battery I use is more than enough to last 2 hours with 4 mics on phantom power.
There are many things about the F8 that look very promising and definite improvements over the DR-680. Such as level controls on each channel. The dual SD cards. And 8 XLR inputs of course, with phantom power individually selectable (as opposed to per two channels) :)
I am very much looking forward to your review. One of the large audio webshops where I live says they will be available in 13 weeks. That's about mid October?
Regards, Christine
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Zoom has shrewdly positioned the F8 to look attractive, but whether it is in fact an improvement over the 680 audio wise remains to be determined. At least the 680 allows you to gang pairs of mics. The original 680 was going for $429 or so just a few months ago when the F8 was announced at $999. That puts the F8 about half the price of the Roland R-88, previously the least expensive 8 track I know of with time code. How well the F8 will hold time code sync is also something people will be watching along with the wifi features.
What I don't understand is how they keep cramming more into recorders at lesser prices, yet microphone prices seem to keep going up.
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I would hope it surpasses the quality of the DR-680 as this is a Make or Brake It offering for Zoom (in this category)
I personally have no interest in buying this unit but it is very interesting
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The F8 really looks great on paper. Given my experience with other Zoom products though, the "wait and see" aspects for me are the quality of the mic preamps and the overall long-term reliability.
2manyrocks, does the F8 not allow channel ganging? I haven't seen it mentioned one way or another, but for a "pro" recorder I think that should be a standard feature.
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I suspect lots of people are in "wait and see" mode for the F8. Published features are attractive and it has kind of an SD clone look. It appears to be better constructed (i.e. metal) than other Zoom and some other competing manufacturer models. But I think that many of us will wait until it is available and the braver souls among us buy one and put it through its paces. Sound quality is paramount and all the glitzy features and "pro" design look won't mean much if the preamps are mediocre. All the features need to work well together and it needs to be reliable too. I suspect that there are a substantial number of folks who might have otherwise purchased an SD or Tascam unit that are now holding off to see how good the Zoom unit really is. Despite my inherent skepticism, I am hoping that Zoom really does pull it off.
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The F8 really looks great on paper. Given my experience with other Zoom products though, the "wait and see" aspects for me are the quality of the mic preamps and the overall long-term reliability.
2manyrocks, does the F8 not allow channel ganging? I haven't seen it mentioned one way or another, but for a "pro" recorder I think that should be a standard feature.
I don't know.
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I'm really curious to see the metering with a few pairs of mics, in some screen shots I can see the overall mix level that is displayed as a stereo track but I haven't seen say six channels so you can monitor & adjust levels. I would "assume" it's in the menu's but none of the images are showing that. Since I won't be mixing six tracks down to stereo a master level does me no good, I run pairs of microphones as individual stereo files so being able to glance at my levels like I do with the 680 & see all of them on one screen is key.
Touching back on the physical hardware switch vs the menu activated function, I have had numerous situations with my 680 where one of the mic inputs get's bumped to high gain since my battery is next to the switches in my bag. Eliminating that with a software function would be appreciated.
Finally (for me) ganging channels for gain adjustment is key, if they implement that I would be more than willing to purchase this. The quality of the preamp's doesn't really matter to me since I use external preamps but if the quality was a little better than the 680 preamps I would call this a win for Zoom. I hope they get it right on this one since there's a lot of hype surrounding it & additional competition is a win for us who use these deck's as a hobby vs profession.
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...
What I don't understand is how they keep cramming more into recorders at lesser prices, yet microphone prices seem to keep going up.
Audio recorders are constructed of integrated circuits. IC technology follows Moore's Law.
Fran
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What I don't understand is how they keep cramming more into recorders at lesser prices, yet microphone prices seem to keep going up.
Audio recorders are constructed of integrated circuits. IC technology follows Moore's Law.
Fran
Analog circuitry doesn't directly follow Moore's law - the DSP/Processor, memory and long term storage typically do
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Bummer, just heard back from Zoom in regards to ganging channel's together.
Dear Carl,
Unfortunately not. You can link two tracks together but because of the analog style gain controls they each have to be adjusted manually.
Sincerely,
ANDREW CUZZO
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Bummer, just heard back from Zoom in regards to ganging channel's together.
Dear Carl,
Unfortunately not. You can link two tracks together but because of the analog style gain controls they each have to be adjusted manually.
Sincerely,
ANDREW CUZZO
This is not a dealbreaker for me, as you can still adjust two at a time with your two hands. The ganging is more input on the 680, with it's one knob.
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I'm really curious to see the metering with a few pairs of mics, in some screen shots I can see the overall mix level that is displayed as a stereo track but I haven't seen say six channels so you can monitor & adjust levels. I would "assume" it's in the menu's but none of the images are showing that. Since I won't be mixing six tracks down to stereo a master level does me no good, I run pairs of microphones as individual stereo files so being able to glance at my levels like I do with the 680 & see all of them on one screen is key.
If you look about halfway down the Zoom product page for the F8 (https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/handy-recorder/zoom-f8-multitrack-field-recorder), there is a picture of the iphone app in which the phone seems to be showing meters for all eight inputs. I am hopeful this will be on one of the menus for the recorder screen as well. Full Compass claims they will get the machine in around July 17.
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Got this from the Nature Recordists list:
"I reached out to my friend Mark Lanza (who is pictured on their web site and featured in their promo videos). He is an editor at SONY and is also VP at The Motion Picture Sound Editors. So he has options when it comes to having access to top recording gear.
I asked him what he thought of the F8 and how it compared to other recorders, including the 788T ($6,500+ USD), which is one of the main recorders used in the film industry. Here is his reply:
"The F8 is a really great recorder - I played with it for about a week. I actually love my H6 - for the price you can't beat it. The F8 does try to compete with the 788T, The 788T is a standard with the big boys on location and I don't know if they will ever be converted to something like the zoom. I think the [F8] mic pre's were pretty close [to the 788] and the price is WAY below the 788. It also had some great features the 788 does not have like limiters across all 8 channels, even in 192K mode. Also the ability to control from your iphone/ipad. This is amazing when recording in the field! I was seriously considering a 788 and then the zoom came along and I'm skipping the 788, can't justify the price with the F8 being this close in quality and so much cheaper. Also the F8 takes the plug in mics from the other Zoom recorders AND they are working on an extension for the mic so it isn't plugged directly to the unit. With the plug in mic, you can actually record 10 channels at once!"
So lots of pretty nice advanced features and the sound quality seemed to stand up. That's based on using it for 1 week. Hard to say for sure how it will stand up in the field over time."
Just more 2 cents on this recorder, but let's wait to hear more opinions and audio tests...
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I'm really curious to see the metering with a few pairs of mics, in some screen shots I can see the overall mix level that is displayed as a stereo track but I haven't seen say six channels so you can monitor & adjust levels. I would "assume" it's in the menu's but none of the images are showing that. Since I won't be mixing six tracks down to stereo a master level does me no good, I run pairs of microphones as individual stereo files so being able to glance at my levels like I do with the 680 & see all of them on one screen is key.
If you look about halfway down the Zoom product page for the F8 (https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/handy-recorder/zoom-f8-multitrack-field-recorder), there is a picture of the iphone app in which the phone seems to be showing meters for all eight inputs. I am hopeful this will be on one of the menus for the recorder screen as well. Full Compass claims they will get the machine in around July 17.
I saw that screen shot but I was looking more for levels similar to the stereo output image vs faders, the levels on the 680 are easy to see at a quick glance since it shows all active channels at once. Where it fails miserably is the lack of indication at what the db the level is at. That's been my largest complaint about the new Tascam decks, horrible metetng with no db indication where as in the past they were better than the competition.
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I think that Lanza summarizes the situation as it stands now and the way it will likely go. The pro sound guys with bigger budgets will tend to stay with SD. Folks on limited budgets will tend towards the F8 if reasonably well implemented. If a 788 is just out of reach, there will be the F8. Might not take sales from SD, but F8 price is about half of R88 and tascams 8 track. So f8 should put pressure on tascam and Roland at these price points if the internal performance is equivalent or better.
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Hearing the preamps are similar is definitely encouraging, performance to price ratio will be key for our market.
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Bummer, just heard back from Zoom in regards to ganging channel's together.
Dear Carl,
Unfortunately not. You can link two tracks together but because of the analog style gain controls they each have to be adjusted manually.
Sincerely,
ANDREW CUZZO
This is not a dealbreaker for me, as you can still adjust two at a time with your two hands. The ganging is more input on the 680, with it's one knob.
Deal breaker.
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Bummer, just heard back from Zoom in regards to ganging channel's together.
Dear Carl,
Unfortunately not. You can link two tracks together but because of the analog style gain controls they each have to be adjusted manually.
Sincerely,
ANDREW CUZZO
This is not a dealbreaker for me, as you can still adjust two at a time with your two hands. The ganging is more input on the 680, with it's one knob.
Deal breaker.
I'm a bit confused by what the Zoom rep said. He says that you can link channels, but that the gain controls are "analog-style" - does that mean they are actual analog gain pots, or just that they look like actual knobs but are actually digital gain controls? If it's digital, there's no reason they couldn't do ganging with a software update.
If it has a per-channel level display that pops up when you adjust the levels though, ganged controls aren't necessary as you can just match the numbers.
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I think that Lanza summarizes the situation as it stands now and the way it will likely go. The pro sound guys with bigger budgets will tend to stay with SD. Folks on limited budgets will tend towards the F8 if reasonably well implemented. If a 788 is just out of reach, there will be the F8. Might not take sales from SD, but F8 price is about half of R88 and tascams 8 track. So f8 should put pressure on tascam and Roland at these price points if the internal performance is equivalent or better.
I agree, I doubt it will take sales from the 788T, but it might take sales from the 702/722/744. Especially for non-pros or lower budget pros who would normally be stretching to get one of the lower level SD units. Pricewise, the 788 is out of the picture for many people, but they might well have considered the lower level SD units if they didn't really need 8 tracks. I've been thinking about a 744, or a Tascam HS-P82, but now that the Zoom is just around the corner, I will wait and see how it really performs before making a buying decision. Hopefully, it will be good enough to cause Tascam and Roland to up their game to be competitive.
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I think tascam has already put it's sauce in the pot with the DR-70D
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I only wish they splashed a bit more of that sauce on the DR680mkii
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Bummer, just heard back from Zoom in regards to ganging channel's together.
Dear Carl,
Unfortunately not. You can link two tracks together but because of the analog style gain controls they each have to be adjusted manually.
Sincerely,
ANDREW CUZZO
This is not a dealbreaker for me, as you can still adjust two at a time with your two hands. The ganging is more input on the 680, with it's one knob.
Deal breaker.
I'm a bit confused by what the Zoom rep said. He says that you can link channels, but that the gain controls are "analog-style" - does that mean they are actual analog gain pots, or just that they look like actual knobs but are actually digital gain controls? If it's digital, there's no reason they couldn't do ganging with a software update.
If it has a per-channel level display that pops up when you adjust the levels though, ganged controls aren't necessary as you can just match the numbers.
I suspect that he means channels can be linked into stereo pairs in the same way as the H6, but you still have to adjust left and right levels with separate knobs.
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Bummer, just heard back from Zoom in regards to ganging channel's together.
Dear Carl,
Unfortunately not. You can link two tracks together but because of the analog style gain controls they each have to be adjusted manually.
Sincerely,
ANDREW CUZZO
This is not a dealbreaker for me, as you can still adjust two at a time with your two hands. The ganging is more input on the 680, with it's one knob.
Deal breaker.
I'm a bit confused by what the Zoom rep said. He says that you can link channels, but that the gain controls are "analog-style" - does that mean they are actual analog gain pots, or just that they look like actual knobs but are actually digital gain controls? If it's digital, there's no reason they couldn't do ganging with a software update.
If it has a per-channel level display that pops up when you adjust the levels though, ganged controls aren't necessary as you can just match the numbers.
I suspect that he means channels can be linked into stereo pairs in the same way as the H6, but you still have to adjust left and right levels with separate knobs.
If that's true, then they're carrying over what is in my opinion one of the strangest things about the H6. What's the point of linking the channels if you can't link the level controls? It hard pans the channels for you and that's it.
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Maybe I'm missing the point, but perhaps the controls on the front panel are the equivalent of trim controls on a mixer, not faders, and you would not normally expect to have ganged trims on a mixer, only ganged faders (under your fingers, or in software if a digital mixer). What you are doing is simply recording at an appropriate gain the input from up to 8 mics to 8 recording channels, and you'll do all balancing and fades etc in post production. The recorder doesn't care how the mics relate to each other - it just records the inputs.
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Bummer, just heard back from Zoom in regards to ganging channel's together.
Dear Carl,
Unfortunately not. You can link two tracks together but because of the analog style gain controls they each have to be adjusted manually.
Sincerely,
ANDREW CUZZO
This is not a dealbreaker for me, as you can still adjust two at a time with your two hands. The ganging is more input on the 680, with it's one knob.
Deal breaker.
I'm a bit confused by what the Zoom rep said. He says that you can link channels, but that the gain controls are "analog-style" - does that mean they are actual analog gain pots, or just that they look like actual knobs but are actually digital gain controls? If it's digital, there's no reason they couldn't do ganging with a software update.
If it has a per-channel level display that pops up when you adjust the levels though, ganged controls aren't necessary as you can just match the numbers.
I suspect that he means channels can be linked into stereo pairs in the same way as the H6, but you still have to adjust left and right levels with separate knobs.
If that's true, then they're carrying over what is in my opinion one of the strangest things about the H6. What's the point of linking the channels if you can't link the level controls? It hard pans the channels for you and that's it.
If you link 2 channels you end up with a single stereo file rather than two mono files that have to be combined into a stereo file in the editing stage.
I think that most people on this forum record to stereo,it makes the H6 more versatile, 6 ISO tracks, 3 stereo tracks, or a combination or the two.
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Maybe I'm missing the point, but perhaps the controls on the front panel are the equivalent of trim controls on a mixer, not faders, and you would not normally expect to have ganged trims on a mixer, only ganged faders (under your fingers, or in software if a digital mixer). What you are doing is simply recording at an appropriate gain the input from up to 8 mics to 8 recording channels, and you'll do all balancing and fades etc in post production. The recorder doesn't care how the mics relate to each other - it just records the inputs.
I also made this point a couple of weeks ago. Either you and I don't understand what's going on with these new multi-channel recorders or alot of commenters in this thread don't.
Anyway, this has an integrated digital mixer, so it seems to me that you can set up whatever routing you want for recording to your tracks, right? (Or maybe I'm just whacked and misunderstanding how an 8 channel recorder that's also a mixer would typically work.) So if my thinking is right you should be able to do whatever balancing, channel ganging you want on-board from the mixer at the output of the digital mixer/faders...including ganging all faders together or by outputting it to a master fader if you want to. If that function is written into the software, it should be or can be. In other words, why couldn't recorded tracks be setup downstream of your mixer? Similarly, I'm sure some people would want the tracks recorded upstream of the mixer.
Anyway, point being that you shouldn't even necessarily have to wait until post to balance channels if they include a powerful digital mixer with the F8, though I agree with you that I don't care all that much that channels are balanced at capture since I tend to isolate each channel separately when I'm working on them in post anyway.
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I also made this point a couple of weeks ago. Either you and I don't understand what's going on with these new multi-channel recorders or alot of commenters in this thread don't.
Anyway, this has an integrated digital mixer, so it seems to me that you can set up whatever routing you want for recording to your tracks, right? (Or maybe I'm just whacked and misunderstanding how an 8 channel recorder that's also a mixer would typically work.) So if my thinking is right you should be able to do whatever balancing, channel ganging you want on-board from the mixer at the output of the digital mixer/faders...including ganging all faders together or by outputting it to a master fader if you want to. If that function is written into the software, it should be or can be. In other words, why couldn't recorded tracks be setup downstream of your mixer? Similarly, I'm sure some people would want the tracks recorded upstream of the mixer.
Anyway, point being that you shouldn't even necessarily have to wait until post to balance channels if they include a powerful digital mixer with the F8, though I agree with you that I don't care all that much that channels are balanced at capture since I tend to isolate each channel separately when I'm working on them in post anyway.
I would take the Mixer portion as a grain of salt - esp at this price point - I would be very suprissed if you can route any channel to any channel also my guess is that for mixing you would have 2 non-assignable mix tracks that you can select which of your 8 tracks to add to the mix and you Pan Left or Right to add levels to the mix - more or less a mix bus - This is how the hs-p82 functions and although it is an older machine would think this F8 would have similar limitations
The F8's primary function is a recorder first and mixer second
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Maybe I'm missing the point, but perhaps the controls on the front panel are the equivalent of trim controls on a mixer, not faders, and you would not normally expect to have ganged trims on a mixer, only ganged faders (under your fingers, or in software if a digital mixer). What you are doing is simply recording at an appropriate gain the input from up to 8 mics to 8 recording channels, and you'll do all balancing and fades etc in post production. The recorder doesn't care how the mics relate to each other - it just records the inputs.
I also made this point a couple of weeks ago. Either you and I don't understand what's going on with these new multi-channel recorders or alot of commenters in this thread don't.
Anyway, this has an integrated digital mixer, so it seems to me that you can set up whatever routing you want for recording to your tracks, right? (Or maybe I'm just whacked and misunderstanding how an 8 channel recorder that's also a mixer would typically work.) So if my thinking is right you should be able to do whatever balancing, channel ganging you want on-board from the mixer at the output of the digital mixer/faders...including ganging all faders together or by outputting it to a master fader if you want to. If that function is written into the software, it should be or can be. In other words, why couldn't recorded tracks be setup downstream of your mixer? Similarly, I'm sure some people would want the tracks recorded upstream of the mixer.
Anyway, point being that you shouldn't even necessarily have to wait until post to balance channels if they include a powerful digital mixer with the F8, though I agree with you that I don't care all that much that channels are balanced at capture since I tend to isolate each channel separately when I'm working on them in post anyway.
Ganged controls really seem to be a desired feature for people who record music. We are using multichannel recorders a bit differently than a typical user. Keep in mind that the F8 end-user is expected (at least by Zoom) to be mixing wireless lavs and booms. Their users' purpose is not to balance levels over a long period, as concert tapers do. They are mixing dialogue and effects on the fly. Yes, they are recording ISOs, but the reality is that a large number of on-the-fly mixes end up in the final project. Production sound mixers are expected to provide quality *mixes* not just ISOs. The big problem I see for film production users is that it seems the F8 trims do double-duty as faders (although I don't see there's a menu to switch back and forth). There's no other control surface (like a CL-8). Mixing TV or film sound on-the-fly with those little knobs would be a royal PIA, and unless they offer a separate control surface, I don't see how it will really take off. And needing that control surface will add $$$ to the cost, which kind of defeats the purpose.
On the 788T, you can record eight ISOs pre- or post-fader and you get four more tracks of mixdown. However, when it first came out, I believe SD made all the recording tracks post-fade, because the device was marketed to TV/film people. What they offer on the mixdown tracks is a master volume control, which is the closest thing to a ganged control.
I think the F8 in its current incarnation *favors* concert tapers more than film/TV people for that very reason. Are there volume fluctuations we have to respond to? Yes, but if levels are set on the conservative side, you can usually get away with minimal fader riding, so not a huge deal. And this assumes people here will be running 8 channels. I highly doubt it. I'll bet most tapers will run a 4-channel matrix, 6-channel max.
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I wonder if it's possible to gang two or more channels in the iphone control.
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Without looking into it, I sort of assume the mixer is basically an 8>2 design, limited to a 2-channel main out and perhaps one or two separate 2-channel aux outs, those outs recordable as stereo tracks. In other words I assume there is no post-fader recording option for each individual channel.
I could be wrong and hope I am.
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Without looking into it, I sort of assume the mixer is basically an 8>2 design, limited to a 2-channel main out and perhaps one or two separate 2-channel aux outs, those outs recordable as stereo tracks. In other words I assume there is no post-fader recording option for each individual channel.
I could be wrong and hope I am.
I know it's hard to know based on the limited marketing information what's under the hood, but the following statement is from their webpage...
The F8's onboard mixer enables flexible signal routing from all inputs to all outputs, either pre- or post-fader, with user-adjustable level, pan, and input/output delay.
I'm not an FOH engineer knowledgeable person, but doesn't that sound like you should be able to assign output recording channels and/or perform most basic mixing functions?
In addition, it also says the following about the headphone monitor function...
Signals can be freely routed to the left and/or right headphone channels, pre- or post-fader, and the headphone output can be switched to mono.
Again, you can't know for sure what's under the hood until they either start shipping or publish a user manual, but it seems that if you can route any signal combo out to the headphone, that same functionality should also be available for writing to channels...and it also seems consistent functionality-wise and/or architecturally with the first statement I highlighted above.
As to earlier comments about these features not being available at this price point, I don't think anyone knows what features are logical on this unit since this recorder is clearly breaking vastly new ground on the continuum of price point vs. features...which is of course the reason it's generating so much buzz.
(I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm trying to reconcile and understand what I'm reading on their website to some of the comments being made in this thread about what people think the unit doesn't do.)
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All inputs (physical)=
10 8 channels: analog (8 ), digital (2) (strike that, not via BNC, maybe usb)
All outputs (physical) = 6 channels: main out (2), sub-out (2), headphone out (2)
Can't tell yet from the information provided about available assignable recording points to memory card within that mixing structure.
[edit- see below]
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All inputs (physical)= 10 channels: analog (8 ), digital (2)
All outputs (physical) = 6 channels: main out (2), sub-out (2), headphone out (2)
Can't tell yet from the information provided about available assignable recording points to memory card within that mixing structure.
:facepalm: Of course. Thanks. (Feeling like a 'stupid' at the moment.)
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All inputs (physical)= 10 channels: analog (8 ), digital (2)
All outputs (physical) = 6 channels: main out (2), sub-out (2), headphone out (2)
Can't tell yet from the information provided about available assignable recording points to memory card within that mixing structure.
To clarify, it doesn't look like it has a digital input. It has the Zoom Mic-In Capsule component, which will override input 1-2 if utilized. Doesn't look like there's a way to record 8+2 channels, similar to how the 680 has 6 analog in + 2 digital in.
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You are right, I was just reassessing what I posted earlier, thinking I missed a digital out but realizing there is no digital in/out other than USB and coming back to post a correction.
The BNCs appear to be timecode only, no SPDIF or AES digital in or out.
Digital in or out via USB only: 8in/4out in multitrack mode (to computer) 2in/2out in stereo mode (ipad)
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Anyone here actually have one of these in hand yet? VERY tempting....
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Not yet released. I have seen various availability dates from late July through September.
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Here's a new video on the F8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgfMK6BYVEo
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Here's a new video on the F8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgfMK6BYVEo
Was anyone else bothered by the inconsistent voice over level throughout this video? For a product marketed towards sound professionals, that struck me as very unprofessional on their part.
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Was anyone else bothered by the inconsistent voice over level throughout this video? For a product marketed towards sound professionals, that struck me as very unprofessional on their part.
Agreed.
Regards, Christine
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this looks good but I still don't think it will be better than sound devices
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this looks good but I still don't think it will be better than sound devices
Probably not, but I can't afford/justify a Sound Devices. I will be able to afford this.
Regards, Christine
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I'm really starting to question whether the inputs can be ganged or not. I watched the new video as well as a few others, one showed the demonstration of the remote control via Bluetooth app. It clearly shows the levels being manipulated via the app, in my mind I don't see then why it wouldn't be easy to gang a pair of inputs via software since the physical gain knob isn't in play when Bluetooth is used. It makes me more apt to preorder one of these with the hopes that software can (maybe) be implemented to have better control of input gain. Gangable input isn't the end all be all for me, I just find it super convenient to use in the field & even with that being said I haven't adjusted my inputs on the 680 in months since I have a baseline established on the deck, my final gain control is done via software in my post processing.
EDIT- They are only using fader level in the video I saw NOT gain, oh well, I'm still interested.
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Here's a new video on the F8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgfMK6BYVEo
Was anyone else bothered by the inconsistent voice over level throughout this video? For a product marketed towards sound professionals, that struck me as very unprofessional on their part.
The video has been replaced by one with a better voice over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PzLhgTZClo
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My Zoom H6 has very inconsistent volume (gain) levels. I presume the video was made on a Zoom product.
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My Zoom H6 has very inconsistent volume (gain) levels. I presume the video was made on a Zoom product.
I'm not sure if you saw the first video before it was taken down, but that's not the same thing. The Zoom H6 is a bit tricky to match levels between channels. The product video they made had no problems with channel balance, but each of the recorded clips of the voice-over had different volume, varying background noise, etc. It almost sounded like someone went into a studio and recorded this in 5 takes, each time a different distance from the mic and/or a different gain level on the preamp. It was just a sloppy job of recording and/or post work. It's good they corrected it quickly, though.
I had an even worse experience recently over on the sE website, as I was checking out audio samples for their new RNR1 ribbon mic: http://www.seelectronics.com/se-rnr1-rupert-neve-mic/ (http://www.seelectronics.com/se-rnr1-rupert-neve-mic/)
They had a piano sample posted there that was shockingly poor. The performance itself was a well-known Liszt etude, but it was very sloppily played with lots of pitch and rhythm mistakes and inconsistent tempo. The piano was out of tune. Worst of all from a marketing standpoint, the recording quality was not good, and sounded like it was made by someone who doesn't have a clue how to record a grand piano. It definitely didn't sound like something that would make you want to drop $4000 on a pair of mics. I wrote to their marketing department, and got an immediate and very polite response back. Apparently they receive samples recorded by customers that they sometimes post, and this one somehow slipped through. They listened to the track and agreed with me, took the sample down, and offered to set up a demo for me with a set of those mics.
Here's the track, still on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/seelectronics/rnr1-piano-etude-in-db-liszt (https://soundcloud.com/seelectronics/rnr1-piano-etude-in-db-liszt) The person who recorded this is an "endorsed artist" from SE / Rupert Neve Designs.
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The user manual is now on-line.
https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-f8-multitrack-field-recorder#downloads
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Bedtime reading. I notice you can at least link two tracks as a stereo track by pressing 2 track keys at the same time. Presumptively adjusting the level on one track then adjusts the level on the other track. Apparently you can link tracks 1&2, 3&4, 5&6, etc.
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Bedtime reading. I notice you can at least link two tracks as a stereo track by pressing 2 track keys at the same time. Presumptively adjusting the level on one track then adjusts the level on the other track. Apparently you can link tracks 1&2, 3&4, 5&6, etc.
If it's the same as the H6, with a linked stereo track, you will have to adjust the left and right individually. It's never caused me any problems with the H6.
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Bedtime reading. I notice you can at least link two tracks as a stereo track by pressing 2 track keys at the same time. Presumptively adjusting the level on one track then adjusts the level on the other track. Apparently you can link tracks 1&2, 3&4, 5&6, etc.
If it's the same as the H6, with a linked stereo track, you will have to adjust the left and right individually. It's never caused me any problems with the H6.
Yeah, it doesn't specifically say that adjusting the level on one track of a stereo track adjusts the other. I was hoping, but you are probably correct if that is how it works on the H6.
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Reading the manual so far I really like what I see but it appears if you use XLR inputs the pre is only adjustable from +10 - 75db & using TRS it's automatically a line level input? So from my preamp I have to use TRS so I don't automatically add 10db on top of my preamp gain? I would have liked a menu option allowing me to select mic input or line level regardless of my cable connection. Am I reading that right?
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Reading the manual so far I really like what I see but it appears if you use XLR inputs the pre is only adjustable from +10 - 75db & using TRS it's automatically a line level input? So from my preamp I have to use TRS so I don't automatically add 10db on top of my preamp gain? I would have liked a menu option allowing me to select mic input or line level regardless of my cable connection. Am I reading that right?
Yeah, that is what it appears to be. I see nothing that lets you toggle from line to mic on an input regardless of cabling. Seems odd.
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Reading the manual so far I really like what I see but it appears if you use XLR inputs the pre is only adjustable from +10 - 75db & using TRS it's automatically a line level input? So from my preamp I have to use TRS so I don't automatically add 10db on top of my preamp gain? I would have liked a menu option allowing me to select mic input or line level regardless of my cable connection. Am I reading that right?
This is probably a hardware decision where the TRS bypass the Pre (directly wired after the pre circuit) - this would simplify the design and require no relays to be put into the design to allow switching in the circuit network on a single set of input lines.
This would cut costs and free up real-estate on the board.
It may still be software but my guess is what I mentioned above - The Korg MR-1000 had the same setup.
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Reading the manual so far I really like what I see but it appears if you use XLR inputs the pre is only adjustable from +10 - 75db & using TRS it's automatically a line level input? So from my preamp I have to use TRS so I don't automatically add 10db on top of my preamp gain? I would have liked a menu option allowing me to select mic input or line level regardless of my cable connection. Am I reading that right?
This is probably a hardware decision where the TRS bypass the Pre (directly wired after the pre circuit) - this would simplify the design and require no relays to be put into the design to allow switching in the circuit network on a single set of input lines.
This would cut costs and free up real-estate on the board.
It may still be software but my guess is what I mentioned above - The Korg MR-1000 had the same setup.
I suppose another upside if that architecture is correct is that it would bypass the onboard pres, rather than just pad them. Not a bad thing. I suppose I will wait to hear how good the onboard pres truly are. No point in lugging more boxes around than necessary, although there is a SD 442 in the yard sale that might make a nice front end for 4 channels.
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That's what I do. Run SD442 >H6 via TRS cables.
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That's what I do. Run SD442 >H6 via TRS cables.
So on the H6 TRS cables makes it a line level input? Ie bypasses the preamps?
I was eyeing that 442, I'd love to own one but can't justify it at the moment.
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That's what I do. Run SD442 >H6 via TRS cables.
So on the H6 TRS cables makes it a line level input? Ie bypasses the preamps?
I was eyeing that 442, I'd love to own one but can't justify it at the moment.
Me too! I think I will wait to see how good the preamps on the F8 truly are before I go spending more money to replace them.
The impending release of the F8 has certainly modified my spending on gear - I'm holding off buying any other recorders and pres until I know whether it is worth buying the F8.
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there is a show and tell at Location Sound in North Hollywood tomorrow from 10am-1pm for those in the area. i mite try to catch the end but as others have said pres are the deciding factor on if it is a winner or not. I just have a hard time believing that Zoom could doing solid TC and high end pres in a box under $1k. i suppose it is possible but at what cost....
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there is a show and tell at Location Sound in North Hollywood tomorrow from 10am-1pm for those in the area. i mite try to catch the end but as others have said pres are the deciding factor on if it is a winner or not. I just have a hard time believing that Zoom could doing solid TC and high end pres in a box under $1k. i suppose it is possible but at what cost....
...Cheap Chinese labor? ::)
In all seriousness, putting eight high-end pres in a $1k box is the thing I have to see/hear to believe, even given cheap overseas labor costs. I suppose the nearest competitor price-wise that has similar features would be the Tascam HS-P82, but at more than double the price of the F8.
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But the manual says they are "super-high-quality preamps" ;D
The DR-680 has 6 decent preamps and now retails for $426.80 at B&H. So, not out of the realm of possibility.
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^^^
Does the manual for the new 680 mkII claim "decent preamps"? ;)
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I'm not knowledgeable about the internal circuitry, but I wonder if there have been some advances in manufacturing that make it possible for the claim about the preamp quality to actually be true at this new price point?
But I'm not running out and buying regardless....
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Sure.
Electronic stuff generally improves and becomes less costly as time progresses, digital does so orders of magnitude faster than analog, but both advance faster than advances in the mechanical stuff.
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^^^
Does the manual for the new 680 mkII claim "decent preamps"? ;)
I'm from Minnesota. If the manual was written here, it would say they were "above average" preamps. Discussing them with your friends, you would claim that they were "not too bad."
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The preamps in my first gen 680 are decently good-looking enough for my satisfaction, if not quite as handsome as the V3 I occasionally run into it.
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^^^
Does the manual for the new 680 mkII claim "decent preamps"? ;)
I'm from Minnesota. If the manual was written here, it would say they were "above average" preamps. Discussing them with your friends, you would claim that they were "not too bad."
I think I like the people from Minnesota :)
Regards, Christine
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For a different angle of discussion on the F8, here's a thread on it from JWSound:
http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/25217-zoom-f8/&page=1 (http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/25217-zoom-f8/&page=1)
If you look at the most recent posts, a couple members there have actually gotten their hands on a couple of demo units and have reported their impressions.
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FWIW, I've gotten some amazing pulls with my H6.
So far, I have no complaints with the preamps. If they are the same preamps that go into the F8, this might be a useful comparison.
To hear comparison between the Zoom Preamps and a much more expensive rig, compare track 3 of my BusmanBSC-1>Zoom H6 source to track 3 of the DPA 4011>DS744T source.
(I picked track 3 as a good comp track because it starts out with some quieter moments…)
ZOOM H6 Preamps: https://ia801500.us.archive.org/18/items/sci2015-01-16.bsc1.flac16/sci2015-01-16set103.mp3
SOUND DEVICES 744T Preamps: https://ia802709.us.archive.org/22/items/SCI2015-01-16.Flac16_2/SCI2015-01-16D1T03.mp3
Full show here, if interested: https://archive.org/details/sci2015-01-16.bsc1.flac16
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I too have had great success running the H6 and never had an issue with that recorder other than the shape just not working into the scheme of things for me personally when doing a field recording and am wearing a Petrol Harness with my Audio Bag and maneuvering a Boom Pole...different situation when I can run a stationary Mic Stand.
As for the Pro's and Con's with the F8 and reading the hands on reviews on JWSoundgroups forum; the issues that most dislike about the unit do not apply for the use I, as well a few others had made note of in regards to how it will be applied for field recording.
For Audio use only, especially if you are running a Pre/Mix such as a Sonosax or SD442/SD552 in front of this recorder. Much of what has been noted in the dislikes will not apply if this is the case.
For film use, I can see this as an entry level audio recorder with TC. For the price and what the recorder offers, even with all the con's I see being mentioned, this still will work well for many....but not for everyone, obviously :)
Makes you wonder as to what 2016 will bring to the market? and will Zoom put out an F9 in the months following this release that will answer many of the requests/demands from users?
I will reserve any bitching about the F8 from only reading the specs and manual until I can actually do a hands on and run some recordings for my own needs.
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Reading the manual so far I really like what I see but it appears if you use XLR inputs the pre is only adjustable from +10 - 75db & using TRS it's automatically a line level input? So from my preamp I have to use TRS so I don't automatically add 10db on top of my preamp gain? I would have liked a menu option allowing me to select mic input or line level regardless of my cable connection. Am I reading that right?
I didn't realize it at first, but this will be a huge annoyance for anyone that still wants to run an external pre.
In addition to gain structure (mic: +10 - 70 vs line: -10 - 50), the maximum input level specs differ between the XLR and TRS inputs.
XLR inputs (MIC): Maximum input level +14 dBu (at 0 dBFS, limiter ON)
TRS inputs (LINE): +34 dBu (at 0 dBFS, limiter ON)
If you want to run an external pre, the +14 dBu spec on the XLR inputs isn't very generous and will be tough to pair with preamps that have a large amount of minimum gain. The PSP-2 first comes to mind and would easily overload the XLR inputs, requiring you to use the TRS line inputs. In my opinion, that's a huge compromise as XLR connectors are without question superior for field recording. Also, who in their right mind would want to have to buy and carry more cables?
In Zoom's defense, the +14dBu viewed purely as a Mic Input spec is actually +4dBu better than a 7xx Mic input (+10 dBu). In addition, the F8's +34 dBu line input max is a whopping +8 dBu better than the 7xx (+26 dBu).
The limiter is post-ad (meh), so I'm not sure why they've bothered to note that in the specification. Maybe I'm missing something...
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^ Not ideal, but couldn't that situation be solved with fairly inexpensive cables that attenuate the signal between the PSP2 and the F8 XLRs?
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^Sure, inline xlr attenuators or custom-made cables would work. Probably a very good idea if you must use the XLRs, but I don't think it's a permanent solution. Consider that we're choosing to run our signal through a magically box that will (presumably) sound better than the (arguably) excellent sounding mic inputs we see on modern recorders, I don't see any reason to compromise and throw attenuators in the signal path, even though they are sonicially irrelevant considering when recording live music.
I also just noticed that phantom power is not available on the TRS inputs, which makes sense if they've intended them to be dedicated line inputs. Probably a conscience design decision rather than a technical limitation. I don't know how Zoom has implemented phantom on their other recorders, but I imagine they'd run into all sorts of customer support issues if they enabled phantom on the XLRs. It's not like this box is going to be used exclusively by skilled professionals trained to correctly interface phantom capable devices. :spin:
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Interpreting specs is confusing to me, but here's what the gain specs say for the 744t:
Mic (normal gain mode): 25 to 70 dB; mic (low gain mode): 10 to 55 dB; line: -6 to 18 dB, 0.1 dB increments
Comparing that to the specs of the Zoom F8:
Inputs XLR (mic) Input Gain +10 - +75db
Inputs TRS (line) Input Gain -10 - +55db
That seems to indicate that the gain structure from the XLRs is about the same on both the 744 and the F8. If so, I wonder...are levels too hot using a PSP2 in front of a 744t when the switches on the 744t are set to mic?
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There's a review here.
http://mixeli.us/technology/zoom-f8/
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There's a review here.
http://mixeli.us/technology/zoom-f8/
What I took away from that review is that the professional location sound people will steer clear of this, as the comments on JWSound seem to indicate. It seems like it could work well for what we do though, as a set-and-forget recording box since you're probably not doing much real-time mixing during concerts and are doing that more in post.
Aside from the software complaints, the things that seem to really keep it from being considered by professionals are hardware related. Specifically, the limiters, headphone amp, and line input level.
Really unfortunate about the -10 dBV line input. I think that answers tonedeaf's question about an external pre - you're going to need inline attenuators. Even the much less expensive DR-70D can handle +4dBu. This was a big miss on Zoom's part.
Maybe if the sales are slow in the target market, the price will drop and tapers who don't care about these other issues will have a cheap way to record 8 channels. 8)
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My disappointment is the fact that I have to use attenuators if I want to use XLR with my preamp or TRS cables. That would mean another set of cables in the bag in one of those chances that I have a battery or preamp failure, that's a major miss on Zoom's part IMO.
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My disappointment is the fact that I have to use attenuators if I want to use XLR with my preamp or TRS cables. That would mean another set of cables in the bag in one of those chances that I have a battery or preamp failure, that's a major miss on Zoom's part IMO.
Not only that, but if I read correctly you can only go line in using TRS connectors, since the plug engages line in. For XLR it's mic level only, meaning you would need even more attenuation. Not to belabor the comparison, but on the 70D you can set the XLR / TRS combo jacks to mic or line regardless of what connector you're using. There's no reason Zoom couldn't have done the same.
I really don't think Zoom was concerned about users connecting external pres when they designed this. If the stock pres are as good as they sound, it may not matter anyway but it limits your options a bit.
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As noticed, most of the issues the reviewer has relate to filming uses. I never use a limiter, and the ability to record 4+4 tracks down by a selectable number of dB will improve my clip protection. What got my attention was:
"And hold and behold, after playing back the files on my computer, I realized that it was not the recordings, but rather the headphone amp on the F8 that was coloring the sound. I have to be honest and say that I am completely blown away by how incredibly good the Zoom F8 mic pre’s sound. I can hear very little difference against the Sound Devices 744T, playing back from my laptop’s DAC using ATH-M50X to monitor. There’s no audible self-noise, unlike its siblings. There seems to be a good amount of dynamic range too.
That said, the headphone amp leaves a lot to be desired in terms of frequency response, timbre and coloration. What you hear does not accurately represent what you’re actually recording, and that can be problematic."
I don't think the headphone amps on my 722 or 633 are partricularly good, either, by the way, though I'm spoiled by editing on Stax much of the time.
Jeff
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The headphone amp coloration comment is nothing to me. Most headphone amps are really crappy anyway, the only exception being the Sound Devices 7xx. I don't EQ on the fly and don't know anyone that does, so coloration doesn't matter to me. However, it's billed as being a much louder headphone amp, which I like...ALOT. I'm only interested in monitoring to make sure there's nothing wrong in the recording chain and that there's no noise or spiking that I might not be seeing on level monitors. I've had some recordings with low level noise that I didn't realize was there during the show because the head amp on my current recorders aren't loud enough to overcome the native sound at the show, so having a loud head amp is an important improvement to me, if it is indeed that much louder.
The line level input issue, while you have to wonder why they designed this way, isn't a show stopper for me at this price point. Attenuators are cheaper than a pair of cables and if you're really worried about carrying extras along with, then why consider an 8 channel recorder? Anyway, except for the loudest shows, I'm not sure it would be an issue for most of my recording situations. On my 744t when I had it, I often ran my external preamps at club shows with the 744 switches on 'mic' rather than 'line', so this isn't a show stopper for me. I'd probably have attenuators in the bag and pull them out on the rare occasion when needed. That said, I do agree that it's quite strange that selectable line vs. mic was not designed in.
Interesting about his comparison with the 744s preamps...I'm much fonder of the my external preamps than I am the internal preamps on the 744. Really happy to read his very positive response about the sound of the pres though.
Objectively, as others have already stated, I find that I don't come from much of a similar baseline as this reviewer. It would be interesting to hear a taper review of the unit to see if they have a similar final conclusion.
Regardless, the prevailing issue for me still remains that this unit is 5 times cheaper than its main competitor at this point. The pointed out deficiencies, for what I do, are more than compensated for by the attractive price point...and that's not even considering the fact that this unit actually has some increased functionality over its competition (with the wi-fi capability).
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I suppose as a compromise position to the above comment about carrying attenuators, I could get used to using interconnects with TRS connectors on one end and since there's plenty of gain on the line level, rather than carry extra cables with XLR connectors, just bump levels in situations where I'd have otherwise preferred using the mic level signal to line level. Still, eyerolls to Zoom for this design feature. ::)
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They have shipped!
I will have the F8 this afternoon and will see what results I get tomorrow (Friday) when I run it for it's 1st gig.
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I suppose as a compromise position to the above comment about carrying attenuators, I could get used to using interconnects with TRS connectors on one end and since there's plenty of gain on the line level, rather than carry extra cables with XLR connectors, just bump levels in situations where I'd have otherwise preferred using the mic level signal to line level. Still, eyerolls to Zoom for this design feature. ::)
The challenge with using TRS cables in my eyes is that the input won't supply phantom power at the point requiring me to switch to XLR if I have a preamp problem. Which is why my original thought is that I'd need two pairs of cables just in case. Sure, not that big of a deal to have the extra cables in my bag BUT why not have switchable phantom like the DR-680 for those just in case situations. Again, major miss on Zoom's part IMO.
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I suppose as a compromise position to the above comment about carrying attenuators, I could get used to using interconnects with TRS connectors on one end and since there's plenty of gain on the line level, rather than carry extra cables with XLR connectors, just bump levels in situations where I'd have otherwise preferred using the mic level signal to line level. Still, eyerolls to Zoom for this design feature. ::)
The challenge with using TRS cables in my eyes is that the input won't supply phantom power at the point requiring me to switch to XLR if I have a preamp problem. Which is why my original thought is that I'd need two pairs of cables just in case. Sure, not that big of a deal to have the extra cables in my bag BUT why not have switchable phantom like the DR-680 for those just in case situations. Again, major miss on Zoom's part IMO.
Ah yes, completely valid point! More eyerolls to Zoom.
Wonder if this can be addressed by a firmware update. On the DR70D, line vs mic level is a menu selectable item, but on the 70D line vs. mic isn't differentiated between the XLR and TRS inputs, as it seems to be on this unit.
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They have shipped!
I will have the F8 this afternoon and will see what results I get tomorrow (Friday) when I run it for it's 1st gig.
Now we're getting to the "do or die" phase. The aluminum case, 8 channels, TC and price point are all good bait to reel in buyers, but how does it sound?
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Silly that they didn't make the inputs mic/line selectable, but, really, I can't imagine overloading the mic input during a concert recording. 14 dBu to overload the XLRs, if the specs are accurate. With any normal sensitivity mic, that would require a crushingly loud show. You'd probably distort most mics at that sot of volume (not to mention the hearing damage)...
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Really unfortunate about the -10 dBV line input. I think that answers tonedeaf's question about an external pre - you're going to need inline attenuators. Even the much less expensive DR-70D can handle +4dBu. This was a big miss on Zoom's part.
The author has corrected his review after a note from Zoom indicating line-in is pro 4 dBV, see the update and comments below.
Jeff
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Just got mine today, had my dad dropp it off at my lab to play around with while I wait for the analysis I'm running to finish. It's looks pretty sturdy. I will probably run it at peach fest this weekend. I'll have more of a review afterward.
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The author has corrected his review after a note from Zoom indicating line-in is pro 4 dBV, see the update and comments below.
Moral - don't believe everything you read on the internet... The post by Zoom correcting several wrong facts or impressions in the review is extremely encouraging as they appear at least to be ready to make changes to address user concerns, and are certainly monitoring reviews and perhaps discussions too. Hi Zoom! :)
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The default firmware doesn't support the iOS controller, however they have a file to install that function on the website. I linked to it below.
I sent zoom an email suggesting different lengths for the extender cable for the modular capsules. While I prefer to use my telefunkens etc, it would be neat to be able to put their modular capsules at the top of a stand.
https://www.zoom-na.com/sites/default/files/products/downloads/software/F8_Bluetooth_Add-on_E.zip (https://www.zoom-na.com/sites/default/files/products/downloads/software/F8_Bluetooth_Add-on_E.zip)
edit:
Fixed Beatles to be able
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The issue with TRS cables for preamp's...eh...I lived with that for years with my Fostex FR2LE/Grace V2 it has a similar gain/input structure and would brickwall the mic pre on the Fostex if you ran into XLR input with the V2...never had a problem with the TRS...
If the Pre dies or the TRS cable dies...just plug the microphone XLR into the Zoom 8 and use it's pre in a pinch...been there and done that when battery power became a issue at a festival...
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I'm liking the Zoom F8 so far. If you have a tekkeon battery the tip labeled "C", yellow colored tip, can supply power to the DC in set at 12V.
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All set to run this eve with the F8! Will be a Wind instrument evening with West Philly Orch. opening for Rebirth Brass Band.
I am going to run all mic's direct this eve. and bypass any pre's, using a Shure VP88 in MS mode, a pair of Telefunken M60's with TK62 HC caps and a pair of Neumann KM100's with AK43's Wide Cards.
6 channels should be a good test run this eve. West Philly Orch has a tendency to parade around the room off the stage while playing, as to why I will run the wide cards with the VP88.
Running power from the battery cup Ni 12V using a Hirose connection. Have the Tekkeon as a backup too.
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Enjoy :D
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I plan on testing it out by going into my SD722 w/ my telefunkens and sending that signal through the analog output into the F8 using the supplied XLR>TA3 cables. I was playing the dear jerry stuff i have yet to edit from my SD722 to the zoom last night trying to figure it out.
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You as well brother, have fun at Peach this weekend! Should be great weather too!!!
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I'm very interested to hear Team Telefunken's thoughts with the preamps in the Zoom. If it were me I'd try to run a set with my preamp & a set without or use a splitter. Either way I'll be waiting to hear what you guys think. Have fun!
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I'm very interested to hear Team Telefunken's thoughts with the preamps in the Zoom. If it were me I'd try to run a set with my preamp & a set without or use a splitter. Either way I'll be waiting to hear what you guys think. Have fun!
Definitely will try running with the pre/Mix before the F8, but on this performance tonight I am running it straight to the F8. I don't have the time to test a full set-up due to the day job and the time between in my getting to the venue this eve. Was a last min call on my part to scale it down.
If the F8 had only been released a day earlier :) May have a gig in New Hope, PA on Sat or Freehold, NJ of Sun for the band Lovetester. If so, I will run my SD Mixer and Pre's before the F8.
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I would really appreciate being able to hear some audience recordings made with this deck using the onboard preamps. Would be really handy for running an audience pair and a 4 channel TRS snake on the direct outs when I have SBD access.
I'm interested but I have little faith in Zoom for the most part. Battery life and powering options are also a consideration when running multiple channels and my current rig runs completely off of 5V.
Having used the internal preamps in my cheap little Tascam DR60d and being pleased with the results has opened up my mind to the possibilities of decent sounding preamps in a budget deck though....
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are these available for retail purchase anywhere yet?
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I believe a couple folks have got them through Gotham. I don't know how extensive this initial release is. B&H still has them on preorder.
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Mine came from B&H. I ordered it when I first saw it mentioned on this board. Maybe I was early in line for it.
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Mine came from B&H. I ordered it when I first saw it mentioned on this board. Maybe I was early in line for it.
^^ Same for me.
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Do folks think the price will drop, stay the same, or go up on this unit after the introduction?
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Do folks think the price will drop, stay the same, or go up on this unit after the introduction?
Depends on the overall reception of the unit. If the unit has great sound and the demand is huge, price might go up a little after the initial rush as long as there's nothing else on the market to touch it. Then in a couple of years as competitors put out similar priced units with more/better features or as sales start to poop out, the price might drop. Gut feeling is that it probably wouldn't go up or down my more than a couple hundred though.
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All set to run this eve with the F8! Will be a Wind instrument evening with West Philly Orch. opening for Rebirth Brass Band.
I am going to run all mic's direct this eve. and bypass any pre's, using a Shure VP88 in MS mode, a pair of Telefunken M60's with TK62 HC caps and a pair of Neumann KM100's with AK43's Wide Cards.
6 channels should be a good test run this eve. West Philly Orch has a tendency to parade around the room off the stage while playing, as to why I will run the wide cards with the VP88.
Running power from the battery cup Ni 12V using a Hirose connection. Have the Tekkeon as a backup too.
Did all go well? Overall first impressions? Quite curious
--Ian
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i think, if the pre's sound good, this is a no brainer for us. we don't do onsite mixing. we plug in mics/board feeds and hit record. if it sounds good as an all in one box, i don't need a V3 in my bag and i have room for more mics!
it's about $500 cheaper than most used R-88's and much smaller. i really want to know how the pre's sound. if they're comparable to the edirol pre's, this might be a great deal.
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i think, if the pre's sound good, this is a no brainer for us. we don't do onsite mixing. we plug in mics/board feeds and hit record. if it sounds good as an all in one box, i don't need a V3 in my bag and i have room for more mics!
it's about $500 cheaper than most used R-88's and much smaller. i really want to know how the pre's sound. if they're comparable to the edirol pre's, this might be a great deal.
^^^^ This
Justin you hit the nail on the head.
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All set to run this eve with the F8! Will be a Wind instrument evening with West Philly Orch. opening for Rebirth Brass Band.
I am going to run all mic's direct this eve. and bypass any pre's, using a Shure VP88 in MS mode, a pair of Telefunken M60's with TK62 HC caps and a pair of Neumann KM100's with AK43's Wide Cards.
6 channels should be a good test run this eve. West Philly Orch has a tendency to parade around the room off the stage while playing, as to why I will run the wide cards with the VP88.
Running power from the battery cup Ni 12V using a Hirose connection. Have the Tekkeon as a backup too.
Did all go well? Overall first impressions? Quite curious
--Ian
I had run the F8 with direct inputs (no pre/mix) as a 1st run test as I had noted before. WOW!!!! I am loving this recorder and will be putting my Zoom H6 up for sale. No need for both in my situation.
The F8 menu is a natural progression from the H6 and toggles thru much easier. Loved the color screens as well as you can roll from one screen to the other on the fly which was real nice for checking the mid and side levels in MS mode from one screen to all channels in the next. Very easy to use from the start and did not have 1 problem or issue on the maiden recording run.
May be repeating myself, but I ran 2 ch. in MS mode using a Shure VP88 Mic and a pair of Neumann KM100 w/AK43 caps and a pair of Telefunken M60's, taking up 6 channels. Went smooth and was easy to adjust volume levels quickly (1st time using the F8 excuse). Now I have an idea on starting levels on the volume control for the next run. Battery power was from an external 12v. Ni Hirose attached battery...didn't even skim the surface of power after 3+ hrs. and it will roll over seamless, if necessary, to the AA batteries internal if the Ni was used up....big plus! and liking that feature.
Still need to tweak my settings a bit on the SD 2 card, in recording a stereo mix separate from the tracked mix. That mix was not useable IMHO, but I did nothing as a prep in adjusting the setting for this SD card and let it record to see what the raw results would be.
I used the F8 to record, as I had noted, the Rebirth Brass Band and it came out real nice other than they showed up late w/no sound check and kept using the instr. mic rather than the vocal mics to talk to the crowd....and then would switch back as each member had a separate vocal and instrument mic. By the middle of the show, vocally they sounded good.
Very disheveled band, fun...but what a mess it was. Opening band (West Philly Orch) sounded amazing. Recordings came out perfect! Couldn't have asked for a better result as a direct input mic'd test show. One thing that I would change is that I will be adding back my SD MixPre-D before the F8, as I prefer the control of the MS signal prior to the recorder for better adjustment, that's my only bitch so far and that has to do with the mic in MS mode as well...not a true 2 mic MS setup when using the VP88. Not sure if the 552 will be added back, as I honestly am very happy with the pre's in the F8, so the SD552 may also be up on the sale block soon.
One other item of mention is in regards to the SD cards. Make sure you have a nice size card, as you do not want to swap them out during a show. They are not the easiest to gain access to when rigged up in a bag. I was running a pair of PNY SDHC CL10 32's.
Have a few shows coming up later this week that I am looking forward to. Will tweak the settings for the SD 2 slot and the stereo mix it creates.
I will post the FLAC files from Rebirth Brass Band this eve. after work. Not sure if there is any interest in West Philly Orchestra?
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That's very encouraging. I'm interested for sure!
Rebirth Brass Band is hilarious...and notorious for showing up late. They have a real easy going way of doing things in New Orleans. My friend hired them to play at his wedding party. They were going on an hour late and he was terrified they wouldn't show at all knowing them and their reputation for flakiness. Then they heard brass music from a block away and knew that they had finally made it. The band second lined down the street, up the walk, through the house and settled in back in the courtyard where the tent was set up. They also expect to be payed in full, in cash before they play a note.
Anyways I'm interested to hear some samples. I might have to order one of these decks. I like the form factor and features.
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All set to run this eve with the F8! Will be a Wind instrument evening with West Philly Orch. opening for Rebirth Brass Band.
I am going to run all mic's direct this eve. and bypass any pre's, using a Shure VP88 in MS mode, a pair of Telefunken M60's with TK62 HC caps and a pair of Neumann KM100's with AK43's Wide Cards.
6 channels should be a good test run this eve. West Philly Orch has a tendency to parade around the room off the stage while playing, as to why I will run the wide cards with the VP88.
Running power from the battery cup Ni 12V using a Hirose connection. Have the Tekkeon as a backup too.
Did all go well? Overall first impressions? Quite curious
--Ian
I had run the F8 with direct inputs (no pre/mix) as a 1st run test as I had noted before. WOW!!!! I am loving this recorder and will be putting my Zoom H6 up for sale. No need for both in my situation.
The F8 menu is a natural progression from the H6 and toggles thru much easier. Loved the color screens as well as you can roll from one screen to the other on the fly which was real nice for checking the mid and side levels in MS mode from one screen to all channels in the next. Very easy to use from the start and did not have 1 problem or issue on the maiden recording run.
May be repeating myself, but I ran 2 ch. in MS mode using a Shure VP88 Mic and a pair of Neumann KM100 w/AK43 caps and a pair of Telefunken M60's, taking up 6 channels. Went smooth and was easy to adjust volume levels quickly (1st time using the F8 excuse). Now I have an idea on starting levels on the volume control for the next run. Battery power was from an external 12v. Ni Hirose attached battery...didn't even skim the surface of power after 3+ hrs. and it will roll over seamless, if necessary, to the AA batteries internal if the Ni was used up....big plus! and liking that feature.
Still need to tweak my settings a bit on the SD 2 card, in recording a stereo mix separate from the tracked mix. That mix was not useable IMHO, but I did nothing as a prep in adjusting the setting for this SD card and let it record to see what the raw results would be.
I used the F8 to record, as I had noted, the Rebirth Brass Band and it came out real nice other than they showed up late w/no sound check and kept using the instr. mic rather than the vocal mics to talk to the crowd....and then would switch back as each member had a separate vocal and instrument mic. By the middle of the show, vocally they sounded good.
Very disheveled band, fun...but what a mess it was. Opening band (West Philly Orch) sounded amazing. Recordings came out perfect! Couldn't have asked for a better result as a direct input mic'd test show. One thing that I would change is that I will be adding back my SD MixPre-D before the F8, as I prefer the control of the MS signal prior to the recorder for better adjustment, that's my only bitch so far and that has to do with the mic in MS mode as well...not a true 2 mic MS setup when using the VP88. Not sure if the 552 will be added back, as I honestly am very happy with the pre's in the F8, so the SD552 may also be up on the sale block soon.
One other item of mention is in regards to the SD cards. Make sure you have a nice size card, as you do not want to swap them out during a show. They are not the easiest to gain access to when rigged up in a bag. I was running a pair of PNY SDHC CL10 32's.
Have a few shows coming up later this week that I am looking forward to. Will tweak the settings for the SD 2 slot and the stereo mix it creates.
I will post the FLAC files from Rebirth Brass Band this eve. after work. Not sure if there is any interest in West Philly Orchestra?
I'm actually more interested in West Philly Orchestra. Those guys rock! Thanks for sharing this with us.
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All set to run this eve with the F8! Will be a Wind instrument evening with West Philly Orch. opening for Rebirth Brass Band.
I am going to run all mic's direct this eve. and bypass any pre's, using a Shure VP88 in MS mode, a pair of Telefunken M60's with TK62 HC caps and a pair of Neumann KM100's with AK43's Wide Cards.
6 channels should be a good test run this eve. West Philly Orch has a tendency to parade around the room off the stage while playing, as to why I will run the wide cards with the VP88.
Running power from the battery cup Ni 12V using a Hirose connection. Have the Tekkeon as a backup too.
Did all go well? Overall first impressions? Quite curious
--Ian
I had run the F8 with direct inputs (no pre/mix) as a 1st run test as I had noted before. WOW!!!! I am loving this recorder and will be putting my Zoom H6 up for sale. No need for both in my situation.
The F8 menu is a natural progression from the H6 and toggles thru much easier. Loved the color screens as well as you can roll from one screen to the other on the fly which was real nice for checking the mid and side levels in MS mode from one screen to all channels in the next. Very easy to use from the start and did not have 1 problem or issue on the maiden recording run.
May be repeating myself, but I ran 2 ch. in MS mode using a Shure VP88 Mic and a pair of Neumann KM100 w/AK43 caps and a pair of Telefunken M60's, taking up 6 channels. Went smooth and was easy to adjust volume levels quickly (1st time using the F8 excuse). Now I have an idea on starting levels on the volume control for the next run. Battery power was from an external 12v. Ni Hirose attached battery...didn't even skim the surface of power after 3+ hrs. and it will roll over seamless, if necessary, to the AA batteries internal if the Ni was used up....big plus! and liking that feature.
Still need to tweak my settings a bit on the SD 2 card, in recording a stereo mix separate from the tracked mix. That mix was not useable IMHO, but I did nothing as a prep in adjusting the setting for this SD card and let it record to see what the raw results would be.
I used the F8 to record, as I had noted, the Rebirth Brass Band and it came out real nice other than they showed up late w/no sound check and kept using the instr. mic rather than the vocal mics to talk to the crowd....and then would switch back as each member had a separate vocal and instrument mic. By the middle of the show, vocally they sounded good.
Very disheveled band, fun...but what a mess it was. Opening band (West Philly Orch) sounded amazing. Recordings came out perfect! Couldn't have asked for a better result as a direct input mic'd test show. One thing that I would change is that I will be adding back my SD MixPre-D before the F8, as I prefer the control of the MS signal prior to the recorder for better adjustment, that's my only bitch so far and that has to do with the mic in MS mode as well...not a true 2 mic MS setup when using the VP88. Not sure if the 552 will be added back, as I honestly am very happy with the pre's in the F8, so the SD552 may also be up on the sale block soon.
One other item of mention is in regards to the SD cards. Make sure you have a nice size card, as you do not want to swap them out during a show. They are not the easiest to gain access to when rigged up in a bag. I was running a pair of PNY SDHC CL10 32's.
Have a few shows coming up later this week that I am looking forward to. Will tweak the settings for the SD 2 slot and the stereo mix it creates.
I will post the FLAC files from Rebirth Brass Band this eve. after work. Not sure if there is any interest in West Philly Orchestra?
I'm actually more interested in West Philly Orchestra. Those guys rock! Thanks for sharing this with us.
post them both!
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Here's the link for the Rebirth Brass Band on the Kickdown section: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174395.0
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Not really anything to do with the F8, but sometimes the original hit is hard to top: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKcGCObEb28
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These samples sound really nice and provide a nice initial listen of the preamps in this unit. First impression is positive. It's hard to know fully what you're hearing when you weren't there and when there are six mics matrixed together, but what you're not hearing is any sort of veiled or seemingly processed sound. It seems as if there's a very direct and transparent sound to these samples. I'm looking forward to hearing some additional samples straight from the mics, particularly with some amplified bass music.
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I can post the mic'd tracks separate from one another, that's not a problem. As for the sound at the Ardmore for this performance....it was okay and got better towards the end of their set as I mentioned with the vocals.
Sound in regards to the band itself, when I was comparing to other RBB recordings on LMA, I found that the vocals seem to always be a problem unless it's a festival. Rebirth is not the best band that I could have recorded. The West Phila. Orch. was a different story. I will have a sample of that later as they are not on LMA.
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Unless others want to hear the separate tracks, please don't go to special effort based on my comment above. I only mentioned it because I'm more familiar with the sound I'd expect to hear from your Neumanns. I'm very excited about the results you got and I can't wait to get my hands on my own F8.
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404, I'm very interested to know how easy (or not) you found it to set / balance gain levels between stereo pairs of channels. I think it's been established that you can link channels as a stereo pair, but you cannot gang the gain controls. Is there a per-channel numeric display of gain level and/or input signal level? I'm still holding out hope that Tascam adds that functionality to the DR-70D with a firmware update, and such a feature would make the F8 all the more attractive.
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I had my settings per channel set prior to the show and my setting up. I had a good idea as to what I could expect and what my mic's will do on the F8 from recording with the H6.
The only volume adjustment that I had done was during the opening band (West Phila Orch) in the 1st song for perhaps a brief second of which you can hear the audible volume correction.
Extremely easy would be my take and what I experienced. I did not gang any channels, although I have done that in prior recordings using the H6. The VP88 ran in MS Mode of which gangs two channels, of which was my only gripe, as I do prefer using the Sound Device MixPre-D for MS control now that I have used the F8's setting. Will test that out on the next outing!
The only setting I need to address on my F8 is the SD 2 card slot that records to a mixed stereo signal.
Bottom line, the unit was extremely easy to run. maybe it was the prior H6 usage that helped, but the menu is extremely easy to navigate on the fly as are the various screens that you can roll from one to the next in re. to the MS settings, all 8ch's vol. levels and the 8 ch's of master vol, panning and combining. This is where you will find the screen for the per-channel numeric display of gain level, pan-balance and/or input signal level that can be seen and scrolled thru very easily from one channel to the next or skipped channels to the following.
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^ The H6 allows linked stereo channels (which you've probably used), but not ganged channels. Ganged would mean that you assign one gain pot to adjust 2 or more channels in unison, so your absolutely sure your channels are set exactly the same after adjusting levels. I believe the Tascam DR-680 does this, as do several pro recorders.
Very good to hear about the different metering / display options though. If you can show numerically that your channels are the same, then ganging becomes less important.
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Will do from home in reply to that, as I am at work doing the day job fun :)
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Anyone have a source for rechargeable ~12V compact high mAh batteries with hirose connectors for the F8?
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Anyone have a source for rechargeable ~12V compact high mAh batteries with hirose connectors for the F8?
There's a thread in the remote power forum entitled 'alternatives to Tekkeon 3450'. That would be a good place to start. Otherwise, you could go onto ebay, but I'd be a little bit careful buying cheap generic batteries on ebay...the generic ones use chinese cells and misrepresent the capacities...they'll say you're buying a 3500mah battery and it's actually 1000mah...stuff like that. You would probably be safe using ebay to buy name brand batteries though.
Whatever battery or batteries you choose, it's not going to come prepackaged with a cable that has a hirose connnector. You're going to need to have a cable made that has the proper connector for your battery on one end and the hirose on the other. Contact Ted Gakidis or Darktrain and they'll make the cable for you.
I've been dealing with remote power for a long time, so I make my own cables so they work from my collection of batteries. So, I'm going to power my F8 from my Tekkeon 3300, which I have a bunch of (23 of them at last count) or my Tekkeon 3450's...I have a couple of those. I'll just take one of the generic connector packs that come with the tekkeons and pull out the generic cable that has a connector on one end that goes to the Tekkeon. I'll hack it and connect the other end to a hirose connector using the wiring diagram in the F8 manual. I assume that the F8 comes with a cable that has a hirose connector on one end. If so, I'll just hack that end from the cable and splice it together with the tekkeon cable. If not, I'll buy a couple of hirose connectors from Mouser and solder those to my Tekkeon. I need to make an order from Mouser anyway.
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^ The H6 allows linked stereo channels (which you've probably used), but not ganged channels. Ganged would mean that you assign one gain pot to adjust 2 or more channels in unison, so your absolutely sure your channels are set exactly the same after adjusting levels. I believe the Tascam DR-680 does this, as do several pro recorders.
Very good to hear about the different metering / display options though. If you can show numerically that your channels are the same, then ganging becomes less important.
You are correct in re. to the H6 and ganging, as I was not thinking on my part that I ran my mics and line through a SD552 before the H6.
The display does show in great detail your levels when you roll the screen to all channels for recording. meters are read from Left to Right Horizontal stacked 1 through 8. Setting these levels was quick and easy with perhaps a bit of a small tweak here and there due to possible peak issues when a vocal would come into play. Was a 1st time run and noting that, it was extremely easy and fast. I am not even worrying about the ganging feature to be honest. I rarely stereo link as it is, unless it was due to an MS setting.
Will try and take some pics and upload for a better view.
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Has anyone tried the Bluetooth control on this thing? Given that the Sonosax costs way more and apparently is vaporware, this thing is starting to look more like a possible option.
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How many people have order one of these?? Looking forward to hearing more recordings.
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My supplier got a shipment in Today, and they've playing with them since last week. This is what I was told
--This is designed for the film industry, as a cheaper alternative to the SD788. It has a in and outputs for an external time clock.
--Preamps are better than the H6.
--Tracks can be solo'ed and a custom mix sent to the headphones.
--Headphone Amp is terrible--very hissy and low gain.
And the good news about this unit--this is really incredible--Zoom added a female jack in the back so you can use those incredible Zoom X-Y microphone heads from the H6 on tracks 1-2. That sealed the deal for me.
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I'd be interested in hearing what our early adopters think of the headphone amp. It isn't really that big a deal as this is a weak point in many recorders, however I had the impression that the HP amp had decent gain. I am less concerned with how it sounds than whether it has adequate gain.
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Has anyone tried the Bluetooth control on this thing? Given that the Sonosax costs way more and apparently is vaporware, this thing is starting to look more like a possible option.
I have tried it in a controlled environment, but not in the field. I like it so far, it gives lot of control without having to open up yiour gear bag/case.
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Here is the first impression by a video focused person.
Zoom F8 impressions LightForm Film (http://bitly.com/zoomf8)
Audio files comparing the F8, dr-70d and Mix Pre D are included.
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Maybe the headphone amp is fussy about the connected headphones. I can't believe they'd stuff up something as straightforward as a headphone amp having (apparently) got the rest of it right.
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The challenge with using TRS cables in my eyes is that the input won't supply phantom power at the point requiring me to switch to XLR if I have a preamp problem. Which is why my original thought is that I'd need two pairs of cables just in case. Sure, not that big of a deal to have the extra cables in my bag BUT why not have switchable phantom like the DR-680 for those just in case situations. Again, major miss on Zoom's part IMO.
Contemplating the Line In vs. Mic In scenario's, I think I might buy and carry these instead of additional cables.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1023319-REG/kopul_a_xftrsm_adapter_xlr_f_to.html
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Yep, that's what I might do as well if I go with the F8, it doesn't look like it will add much length since I already run stubbies.
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I forgot to mention that B&H is now showing a custom bag for the F8 at $150. The bag looks pretty slick and at $150, though it could be cheaper, as custom bags go that's a decent price.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1178107-REG/zoom_zpcf8_zoom_pcf_8_protective_case.html
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Wow, that bag is awesome, I like it but please stop Steve. I've been avoiding placing my order & you're killing me :facepalm:
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Wow, that bag is awesome, I like it but please stop Steve. I've been avoiding placing my order & you're killing me :facepalm:
OK, I already placed my order so you'd have to wait at least one extra place in line to get yours. There, hope that helps.
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Maybe the headphone amp is fussy about the connected headphones. I can't believe they'd stuff up something as straightforward as a headphone amp having (apparently) got the rest of it right.
Or, this could have been a place they identified where they could save some money. Unfortunately if it does have a poor headphone stage, that alone may scare away the serious mobile sound professionals they are targeting, if comments on JWSound are any indication.
We've been talking for a while here about how they are able to sell a recorder with these features and supposedly very good recording quality for this price. Cheap foreign labor probably gets you a good deal of the way there, but there must be some other compromises made, or else I would imagine they wouldn't be making very much profit on this.
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I have no clue what their profit margin is, but its just a recorder. Could it be more complicated than a video camera, a DSLR, or a big screen TV? At $1,000 is it 5x the recorder than the 70d? Maybe the availability of time code at this price point is its primary appeal to some? There don't seem to be many detailed reviews yet although there were a slew of teasers put up before it was even released for sale.
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The headphone amp lack of quality is weak. Cut corners one place, there are more.
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The headphone amp lack of quality is weak. Cut corners one place, there are more.
Isnt the "quality" of the headphone out - more - linked to the specs of the headphones...(in general) - rather than some broad statement of the headphone out?
(and the environment you are recording in)
All headphones are not created equal!
The most useful set of cans I have for live rock is a 5 dollar KOSS set from K-mart...just the mids...trying to judge bass live 30 ft from a PA is pointless!
That said - I never use headphones!
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Unfortunately if it does have a poor headphone stage, that alone may scare away the serious mobile sound professionals they are targeting, if comments on JWSound are any indication.
Monitoring through the headphone amp in my SD722 always sounds distinctly worse than when I get the recording back home and listen through a good headphone amp. It used to make me very nervous. The question is, how bad is the F8 headphone amp compared to the SD722? So far, very little hard info on the F8 vs. other things we use.
Jeff
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Yeah, in fairness the Fostex fr2le is a good deck with a bad out. And the same is true of my d5 dat decks, great decks with crappy headphone outs. Forgot abut that.
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So far the only "report" on the quality of the headphone amp is a second hand hearsay report from a vendor. I have yet to see, on any forum, a first hand report that the headphone amp is bad, or at least any worse than the headphone amp on the 680, 722 or other popular recorder.
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The headphone out does the job for me, but I'm not as picky as some people on here. I won't be able to give a good review on that portion of the recorder.
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I have had no issue with the headphone amp as well. I had used my headphones only to assist in adjusting the MS setting I had run. When I was happy with feel I was getting as far as the Mid and Side settings, the headphones where off. It did the job for me and was much better than the Marantz PMD661 I have.
Will be running the F8 with permission this weekend (Sun) for the Ed Palermo Big Band with Napoleon Murphy Brock at the Sellersville Theatre. This will be a better test for a controlled environment. Great acoustics and sound system at the venue as well.
This run I will be using a Shure VP88 in MS but I will pre/mix through my SD MixPre-D before the F8. Telefunken M60/TK62's will run direct to the F8. May run the Miktek C5's with the Neumann KM143's and compare a few mic's and paired mixes. This is the fun part of the 8 ch. :)
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Will be running the F8 with permission this weekend (Sun) for the Ed Palermo Big Band with Napoleon Murphy Brock at the Sellersville Theatre. This will be a better test for a controlled environment. Great acoustics and sound system at the venue as well.
^^^ Looking forward to hearing the results!
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Thanks for the first hand reports on the headphone amp! Not a make or break issue for me, but I did want to know what our intrepid early adopters actually experienced. Good to know that it is not as terrible as suggested by hearsay accounts. I wonder how long the wait for a unit is now? Anyone who ordered recently been given a delivery date?
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http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?sku=1178107&Q=&O=&m=Y&gclid=CjwKEAjwjYCvBRC99sSm_frioAwSJACrKuPCR9JrsbJeV9nxj2cBJWi5rqGyivZ87e6II02c3ysj-xoCJ37w_wcB&is=REG&A=details
case looks pretty cool....
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Anyone who ordered recently been given a delivery date?
No, but I got an email from B&H on Friday saying it's still back-ordered. :facepalm: I just ordered a few weeks ago though so realistically I haven't expected to see it until the end of September, but the only reason I have that date in mind is the info on the B&H website.
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I'm heading to pro sound to have a look at one this week. ....
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If this rig is a winner...might be a SD killer...???
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I think it will need to prove its reliability before the pro crowd really picks it up. In addition, so far, the feature set isn't quite what the film crowd appears to think essential. Currently the comments seem to run towards it possibly being a backup to their main recorder. Zoom, to their credit, appears to be listening to their comments and has indicated that they would make responsive changes. Folks in our little niche might find it just fine, however. It does look promising for what we do.
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If this rig is a winner...might be a SD killer... ???
I wouldn't think so - but it may create a wrinkle in the market by forcing other brands to come down a little bit in price
The 788 has many more features then this unit and again we are talking professional sound people not hobbyists - as us hobbyists are are not big enough market for SD or other big players to make changes to our needs (including price)
I don't see people swooping in to buy a bunch of these to record a major feature film that is going to pull in 100's of millions of dollars - these are for the small time professional just starting out or maybe as a backup recorder for a seasoned pro.
I do not see the market for the 7xx series anymore with firewire dead and so much other better competition out there now (i.e. Zaxcom Nomad Lite/Maxx, 633, etc) - I really don't think the F8 is taking the 702/722/744 etc out - these units days have been numbered for a number of years
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What he said. I think the more interesting reaction will be from Tascam, Roland, Sony, Fostex, etc. They may need to significantly raise their game in response. Can't wait! ;D
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Just ordered mine from my guy at Sweetwater, they still don't know when they will see them but I'm on the list so the wait can begin.
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I do not see the market for the 7xx series anymore with firewire dead and so much other better competition out there now (i.e. Zaxcom Nomad Lite/Maxx, 633, etc) - I really don't think the F8 is taking the 702/722/744 etc out - these units days have been numbered for a number of years
You keep saying that the 7-series is on the way out, but there clearly is still a strong market for them among professionals. For example:
http://www.sounddevices.com/in-action/ben-osmo-and-oliver-machin (http://www.sounddevices.com/in-action/ben-osmo-and-oliver-machin)
I also think SD is the first place you go for rugged build quality until you move into the realm of Nagra and Aaton, and that's a big price jump as well. Zaxcom's weak point are those membrane buttons.
Sure, it would be good to see SD update everything to USB3 or something like that, but why change something that's selling well? You can also use a FW > Thunderbolt adapter as an option, and the 788 has USB + FW.
The F8 isn't going to cut much into the professional market that much, although I'm also hopeful that it puts some competitive pressure on the market. It all depends on how well it sells, I suppose.
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You keep saying that the 7-series is on the way out, but there clearly is still a strong market for them among professionals. For example:
http://www.sounddevices.com/in-action/ben-osmo-and-oliver-machin (http://www.sounddevices.com/in-action/ben-osmo-and-oliver-machin)
I also think SD is the first place you go for rugged build quality until you move into the realm of Nagra and Aaton, and that's a big price jump as well. Zaxcom's weak point are those membrane buttons.
Sure, it would be good to see SD update everything to USB3 or something like that, but why change something that's selling well? You can also use a FW > Thunderbolt adapter as an option, and the 788 has USB + FW.
The F8 isn't going to cut much into the professional market that much, although I'm also hopeful that it puts some competitive pressure on the market. It all depends on how well it sells, I suppose.
I don't think the 788 is on the way out just the 702/702t/722/744t and I read that article a few months back.
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There is so much money riding on professional films that they would be hesitant to use something new until its reliability and performance has been proven unless used in a very backed up or test mode.
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So a major screw up happened to me this past weekend in that I didn't check my settings for the SD1 and SD2 slots and had recorded all 6 channels into 2 track stereo on both SD cards. UHG!!!!!!
This will not happen again!!!! Figures, since I had a green light to record and had no worries and too much smugness. Murphy's Law!!
One thing that I can attest to, w/o the end result from the mix-down, was that running an SD MixPre-D in-line before the F8 is not necessary IMHO. The F8 by itself handled it just as well in a prior recording when I was all direct input.
Other than having the final result of the evening as a 2 track stereo mix, the recorder itself is perfect for audio field recording. It ran well and it was the user this time who was not working properly.
I am liking the F8 and will make sure I set each SD card slot to the correct settings next run.
Lots of music to be recorded coming up, except during the Pope visit, of which I will stay as far away from Philly as I can :)
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One thing that I can attest to, w/o the end result from the mix-down, was that running an SD MixPre-D in-line before the F8 is not necessary IMHO. The F8 by itself handled it just as well in a prior recording when I was all direct input.
Thanks for the feedback. Could you please elaborate on this statement a bit?
Are you simply referring to the levels you got (were you using XLRs therefore Mic Input?) or are you referring to the quality of the preamps in the F8 versus those of the Mix Pre D? I assume you're talking about the levels, since if I understand correctly, because of your mess-up that would mean that you can't check the sound on individual mic outputs other than the final mixed channels. What type of music were you recording and what was the general ambient volume?
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F8 & Headphones.
I was using my Isolation Headphones on my prior outing with the F8 and I am even more impressed with this unit in re. to the monitoring of individual channels during recording.
The PFL button, when pressed per channel, has a great monitoring audio level. In comparing to the SD552 in channel monitoring, I found it to be easier to access the setting as well as quickly change from one channel to the next to make any adjustments if necessary.
Not that the SD552 is bad, but if you are not familiar with the SD552 settings, it's not as simple as the F8.
Overall Headphones, in using Isolation phones as noted, are pretty damn good with the F8.
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There is so much money riding on professional films that they would be hesitant to use something new until its reliability and performance has been proven unless used in a very backed up or test mode.
I conceptually agree, but when the SD633 first shipped, the market completely flooded with used 744s indicating that higher end users don't necessarily need any time before they're willing to jump on a new SD product. Most higher end company's employ more recorders than a single 633 or 744 though.
I'm in the camp that thinks that the Zoom F8 won't have much, if any, impact on the Sound Devices market. I think it'll impact Tascams DR680 sales much more than it will impact Sound Devices 744, 633 or 663 sales.
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One thing that I can attest to, w/o the end result from the mix-down, was that running an SD MixPre-D in-line before the F8 is not necessary IMHO. The F8 by itself handled it just as well in a prior recording when I was all direct input.
Thanks for the feedback. Could you please elaborate on this statement a bit?
Are you simply referring to the levels you got (were you using XLRs therefore Mic Input?) or are you referring to the quality of the preamps in the F8 versus those of the Mix Pre D? I assume you're talking about the levels, since if I understand correctly, because of your mess-up that would mean that you can't check the sound on individual mic outputs other than the final mixed channels. What type of music were you recording and what was the general ambient volume?
The Sound Devices MixPre-D was redundant IMHO when running prior to the F8. I had the same results from the Shure VP88 going direct to the F8 set as MS Mode as I did using the MixPre-D in MS. It was just an extra item that I did not need to use IMHO. After my 1st outing using the F8 and no pre-mix, the point of the MixPre-D was to test the MS setting and see if it was any better than running the MS as a direct input to the F8.
I was able to monitor everything from the headphones per channel. The SD Card settings for SD slots 1 & 2 happened to have been set incorrect by me for Slot 1 from when I was experimenting with the recorder at home days prior with XLR inputs vs. TRS. I thought I had changed the Slot 1 back to record each channel separately, other than ch.'s 1 & 2 being linked and set as Mid and Side.
I was able to monitor the channels. The Slot settings do not effect monitoring of each channel/input, unless they are linked as well as in MS.
The music was a 17 piece Big Band playing the music of Frank Zappa with Napoleon Murphy Brock on Vocals, Flute and Sax,
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There is so much money riding on professional films that they would be hesitant to use something new until its reliability and performance has been proven unless used in a very backed up or test mode.
I conceptually agree, but when the SD633 first shipped, the market completely flooded with used 744s indicating that higher end users don't necessarily need any time before they're willing to jump on a new SD product. Most higher end company's employ more recorders than a single 633 or 744 though.
I'm in the camp that thinks that the Zoom F8 won't have much, if any, impact on the Sound Devices market. I think it'll impact Tascams DR680 sales much more than it will impact Sound Devices 744, 633 or 663 sales.
I agree about the projected impact of the F8 on the SD and Tascam markets and hope that it prompts Tascam to develop a new and competitive product. I don't think it will kill off the DR680 as there is still a substantial price differential between the two that will appeal to some.
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If the F8 proves itself for early users, folks who really want time code are likely to opt for the F8 at $1,000 over the R-88 at $2,000 or the HS P82 at $2,400.
Hard to say about the DR680. I paid $429 for the first version. I thought about picking up another unit to cascade, but I find it hard to swallow $600 for the mkii. If they drop the 680 price down to $400-$500, I think it may continue to sell. But at $600 for the 680, I think buyers are looking to look hard at the F8 feature set before deciding what to buy.
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If the F8 proves itself for early users, folks who really want time code are likely to opt for the F8 at $1,000 over the R-88 at $2,000 or the HS P82 at $2,400.
Hard to say about the DR680. I paid $429 for the first version. I thought about picking up another unit to cascade, but I find it hard to swallow $600 for the mkii. If they drop the 680 price down to $400-$500, I think it may continue to sell. But at $600 for the 680, I think buyers are looking to look hard at the F8 feature set before deciding what to buy.
Amazon has the mkii at $500, which I agree is probably the upper threshold of what I'd pay. My question is whether to buy the 680mkii now, or going all in on the F8, which would probably require me to sell off a bunch of gear (with my wedding in five weeks, my budget is a bit tight for buying new toys).
The other question is how often would I actually use eight inputs in a taping situation...
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If the F8 proves itself for early users, folks who really want time code are likely to opt for the F8 at $1,000 over the R-88 at $2,000 or the HS P82 at $2,400.
Hard to say about the DR680. I paid $429 for the first version. I thought about picking up another unit to cascade, but I find it hard to swallow $600 for the mkii. If they drop the 680 price down to $400-$500, I think it may continue to sell. But at $600 for the 680, I think buyers are looking to look hard at the F8 feature set before deciding what to buy.
Amazon has the mkii at $500, which I agree is probably the upper threshold of what I'd pay. My question is whether to buy the 680mkii now, or going all in on the F8, which would probably require me to sell off a bunch of gear (with my wedding in five weeks, my budget is a bit tight for buying new toys).
The other question is how often would I actually use eight inputs in a taping situation...
The reality is that there aren't many F8's out there so coming up with one prior to your wedding shouldn't be a concern. I placed my preorder yesterday at Sweetwater & have no idea of delivery. For my money I chose the F8 over another 680 since I've never really been impressed with mine. It works but the metering is horrible & it doesn't exactly feel like the quality Tascam once was so I figured I'd give the new Zoom a shot. The 8 channels is nice for me sometimes at my local venue when I want to run three pairs of mics & a board feed but that's more of a nice feature just in case, I bought the Zoom for that & the superior metering. I'm hoping the quality is better than the Tascam ( which shouldn't be too hard IMO) & if the preamps sound good for my additional channels I'll be very pleased.
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If the F8 proves itself for early users, folks who really want time code are likely to opt for the F8 at $1,000 over the R-88 at $2,000 or the HS P82 at $2,400.
Hard to say about the DR680. I paid $429 for the first version. I thought about picking up another unit to cascade, but I find it hard to swallow $600 for the mkii. If they drop the 680 price down to $400-$500, I think it may continue to sell. But at $600 for the 680, I think buyers are looking to look hard at the F8 feature set before deciding what to buy.
I think the hs-p82 still has lot to offer at $2000 (which is about what they are selling for nowadays) with 8 channels of digital in and out and optional real-time sample rate conversion on all digital inputs. It is big and power hungry though. You have to step up to $4k+ to find another recorder with 8 channels of digital input - which makes this unit a good cart backup unit.
The R-88 offers one digital input.
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with my wedding in five weeks.
Congratulations!
my budget is a bit tight for buying new toys
Commiserations!
The other question is how often would I actually use eight inputs in a taping situation...
Well, I've often quoted Panatrope's Second Law of Recording (I forget what the first law is), which states that the number of channels required for a recording is always one greater than those available.
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Woo woo. I just got an email from B&H that my unit shipped today. I'll have it on Thursday!
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If the F8 proves itself for early users, folks who really want time code are likely to opt for the F8 at $1,000 over the R-88 at $2,000 or the HS P82 at $2,400.
Hard to say about the DR680. I paid $429 for the first version. I thought about picking up another unit to cascade, but I find it hard to swallow $600 for the mkii. If they drop the 680 price down to $400-$500, I think it may continue to sell. But at $600 for the 680, I think buyers are looking to look hard at the F8 feature set before deciding what to buy.
Congratulations and best wishes. Maybe you can register for wedding gifts at B & H.
I tend to think the 4 channels on the 70d are the best deal going and probably enough channels for most users. Got a 680 and still primarily go only 2 tracks myself.
Admit to having looked at the metering on the f8 and would be interested in opinions whether it is an upgrade over the 70d or 680?
The other thought I had later today is zoom is probably also up selling their existing customer base like all the photographers who bought zooms years ago.
Amazon has the mkii at $500, which I agree is probably the upper threshold of what I'd pay. My question is whether to buy the 680mkii now, or going all in on the F8, which would probably require me to sell off a bunch of gear (with my wedding in five weeks, my budget is a bit tight for buying new toys).
The other question is how often would I actually use eight inputs in a taping situation...
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I hear you about the HS-P82. I was going to sell mine, but the sound quality is so beautiful.
And for power - I really like the IDX Endura Cue 150 - lasts about 7 hours on a charge - but of course have AA backups.
(or I suppose a bunch of NP-1s will do.) It is power hungry as a downside.
Others have posted interesting battery options that are a little over my head but may be really good for many people here.
If the F8 proves itself for early users, folks who really want time code are likely to opt for the F8 at $1,000 over the R-88 at $2,000 or the HS P82 at $2,400.
Hard to say about the DR680. I paid $429 for the first version. I thought about picking up another unit to cascade, but I find it hard to swallow $600 for the mkii. If they drop the 680 price down to $400-$500, I think it may continue to sell. But at $600 for the 680, I think buyers are looking to look hard at the F8 feature set before deciding what to buy.
I think the hs-p82 still has lot to offer at $2000 (which is about what they are selling for nowadays) with 8 channels of digital in and out and optional real-time sample rate conversion on all digital inputs. It is big and power hungry though. You have to step up to $4k+ to find another recorder with 8 channels of digital input - which makes this unit a good cart backup unit.
The R-88 offers one digital input.
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Woo woo. I just got an email from B&H that my unit shipped today. I'll have it on Thursday!
woot woot!
glad one is on the way to you... remind me of your order to ship turn around, please?
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Amazon has the mkii at $500, which I agree is probably the upper threshold of what I'd pay. My question is whether to buy the 680mkii now, or going all in on the F8, which would probably require me to sell off a bunch of gear (with my wedding in five weeks, my budget is a bit tight for buying new toys).
The other question is how often would I actually use eight inputs in a taping situation...
In my haste to post I forgot to say congrats on your wedding!
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Woo woo. I just got an email from B&H that my unit shipped today. I'll have it on Thursday!
woot woot!
glad one is on the way to you... remind me of your order to ship turn around, please?
I placed the order on August 13th.
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No promises, but as of right now I'm planning on doing a thorough written 'straight outta the box' review of the Zoom F8 like I did when I got the Tascam DR100MKii a couple of years ago. I had fun doing that review and I got alot of really positive feedback. There seems to be a ton of interest in the F8, both here and outside of TS.com so thought it would be fun to do another one. The only thing is that this will be a review from the perspective of a taper rather than a film guy. I'm not sure how to test things like time code and whatnot.
So, I'm looking for some feedback...what specifically would you like to see in this review? Please be specific if you can.
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No promises, but as of right now I'm planning on doing a thorough written 'straight outta the box' review of the Zoom F8 like I did when I got the Tascam DR100MKii a couple of years ago. I had fun doing that review and I got alot of really positive feedback. There seems to be a ton of interest in the F8, both here and outside of TS.com so thought it would be fun to do another one. The only thing is that this will be a review from the perspective of a taper rather than a film guy. I'm not sure how to test things like time code and whatnot.
So, I'm looking for some feedback...what specifically would you like to see in this review? Please be specific if you can.
That review was fantastic and ended up costing me as I had to have one... ;D
I would like to know everything as in your last review which was incredibly thorough, but what comes right to mind is the following:
Ease of setup and use in the field
Quirks
How it sounds without external preamps
Power consumpltion
What sets it apart from others like DR680 SD etc aside from price
What you liked best
What you disliked
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That review was fantastic and ended up costing me as I had to have one... ;D
I would like to know everything as in your last review which was incredibly thorough, but what comes right to mind is the following:
Ease of setup and use in the field
Quirks
How it sounds without external preamps
Power consumpltion
What sets it apart from others like DR680 SD etc aside from price
What you liked best
What you disliked
Thanks for the feedback Cliff. How are the shemps treating you?
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Curious about the specifics of the channel linking- what it does and what it doesn't.
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I'm curious about the accuracy of the metering including metering of individual channels in comparison to the 680, 70d and any of the SD7xx series. Has Zoom given us metering close to the SD7xx series on the F8?
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what specifically would you like to see in this review?
How's the ease of accessing what you need in the menu system - and how easy is it to review the current settings to ensure everything's correct before the show starts?
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I'm curious about the accuracy of the metering including metering of individual channels in comparison to the 680, 70d and any of the SD7xx series. Has Zoom given us metering close to the SD7xx series on the F8?
I'm trying to better understand what you're after here. I know that the resolution of the metering on the Tascam products isn't all that great. When I had a 744 and dialed the level controls in so that both L and R channels were peaking on the same light, it was a pretty good indication that I was within a db or so of having my channels balanced. The sensitivity of the knobs was such that it wasn't difficult to dial either channel in so that both channels were hitting the same light. I think the comment on the 70d is that it doesn't have a numeric peak level display and that the sensitivity of the 70d knobs are less than ideal for this task.
Does this kinda capture what your after or is there something else?
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That would be good to know. Part of the question is whether the meters give you enough visual clues that you can dial in the mix that you're getting when recording multiple channels.
Without the ability to gang channels, the ability to accurately set two main channels is pretty important. Do the meters let you set the levels between two channels easily and accurately?
More generally, I'd like to know how well the metering scheme on the F8 works. It looks like it has a nice overall LED bar meter for the main mix with some more limited metering on each channel pot?
The SD7xx metering is highly visible, accurate, and there's a long scale to it as opposed to there being some little grayscale LED screen with a maybe an inch of meter bars and then a little hash mark without any numerical indication of what the db levels are. The SD has nice, long scale, colors, and the LED will display numerical db levels.
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I'm curious about the accuracy of the metering including metering of individual channels in comparison to the 680, 70d and any of the SD7xx series. Has Zoom given us metering close to the SD7xx series on the F8?
I think the comment on the 70d is that it doesn't have a numeric peak level display and that the sensitivity of the 70d knobs are less than ideal for this task.
Actually the 70D only has a numeric peak level display, but that is only for the channel which is currently the highest peak which makes it only partially useful. You're correct on the sensitivity of the knobs being less than ideal, but now that it's established that the gain pops into 2dB steps, it's not as big a problem as we may have initially thought.
I'm fine with my 70D right now, in spite of the frustratingly poor metering. Even the M10 metering is massively better. If the F8 really performs well in this regard, I might be even more tempted to go after one. I'm going to let all of you guys take the plunge first though. ;D
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Yes, the M10 meter is much better than the 70d, IMO, because it's more visible, longer scale.
Forgot to mention I'd like to know if you can control the F8 remotely as in set it on a stage with your mics and then control it from the audience via bluetooth? The reason being I'd like to be able to record without having to run cables that some tool will trip over. How well does the metering work that way? What's the range? Does it disconnect?
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Yes, the M10 meter is much better than the 70d, IMO, because it's more visible, longer scale.
Forgot to mention I'd like to know if you can control the F8 remotely as in set it on a stage with your mics and then control it from the audience via bluetooth? The reason being I'd like to be able to record without having to run cables that some tool will trip over. How well does the metering work that way? What's the range? Does it disconnect?
My favorite feature on the Sony recorders is the green -12db and red 0db lights, which lets me monitor levels from anywhere in the room if I can see it. Obviously, that's what I hope to accomplish with the bluetooth function of this bugger. The range of the bluetooth is a good suggestion...any idea if the bluetooth signal would be less reliable or have shorter range if there are lots of bodies in the venue physically situated between the recorder and the bluetooth device?
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The red light on the Sony has saved recordings for me more than once, especially when I set levels and then the volume creeps up. It's a good example of well executed engineering.
I have no experience with bluetooth which is different than wifi. http://www.diffen.com/difference/Bluetooth_vs_Wifi
My experience with wifi is the more traffic on the bandwidth, the more likely trouble. Metal or other obstacles between you and the device can interfere with range. My experience with the tascam 22wl is it works fine if I am right on top of the recorder, and the nice big user screen on my tablet beats the stew out of the screen on the 22wl. I'm guessing at the distance where I start having trouble, but at about 40 feet (?) away, it becomes laggy and unresponsive. Roughly speaking, I can put it on stage and control it fine from the first few rows of seats. Get too far away, and I lose control, but it keeps recording on whatever setting it was on before connection was lost.
So I'd be looking at range, how easily you can make a careful change to level settings without overrunning the setting you really want (can be harder than you'd think), whether there's lag or delay in making changes, and what happens when you lose connection. How hard is it to regain connection? Do you immediately pick up with control when connection is reestablished?
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So I'd be looking at range, how easily you can make a careful change to level settings without overrunning the setting you really want (can be harder than you'd think), whether there's lag or delay in making changes, and what happens when you lose connection. How hard is it to regain connection? Do you immediately pick up with control when connection is reestablished?
I'd already thought of this. I already knew (from my hearing aids which are bluetooth controlled...really cool) that there is a slight lag between a bluetooth device and when the device reacts. It's not much, only 1/3 to 1/2 second or so, but I wondered if it might be enough to mess with you when tweeking levels. Another concern about the mobile app going in is I'm concerned with whether it's easy to erroneously change something if you accidentally leave the app active and put it in your pocket. For example, reviewing the app manual, I don't see any buttons or controls where you can lock the app...so does that mean if I put it in my pocket and somehow REC gets depressed I'll accidentally stop the recording? Or if a fader slider gets accidently touched will my levels suddenly go off? I suppose you can lock any app by minimizing it on your phone, but what if you forget before putting your phone back in your pocket?
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I'm skeptical of the Zoom F8. Sure it looks cool and a welcome option, but it's still manufactured by a company that fills the market area catering to video hobbyists who know nothing about audio outside of the Zoom H series. I don't think it's a threat to SD gear. It might bring down the after market price of SD gear and other high end gear, but maybe just temporarily. Did Zoom really build a recorder that is THAT good at THAT price? I doubt it. It's probably decent though, also I have never used the H6, F8, etc.
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That review was fantastic and ended up costing me as I had to have one... ;D
I would like to know everything as in your last review which was incredibly thorough, but what comes right to mind is the following:
Ease of setup and use in the field
Quirks
How it sounds without external preamps
Power consumpltion
What sets it apart from others like DR680 SD etc aside from price
What you liked best
What you disliked
Thanks for the feedback Cliff. How are the shemps treating you?
I am having great fun with them, and have worked them out extensively the past 2 weeks ;D I find them incredibly detailed, more detailed than my KM185's but I find the Neumanns a bit warmer. I think each will shine in certain situations.
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any idea if the bluetooth signal would be less reliable or have shorter range if there are lots of bodies in the venue physically situated between the recorder and the bluetooth device?
I have a high power BT audio transmitter which enables me to wander anywhere in the (large) house with a BT audio receiver clipped to my shirtfront and headphones on and get a perfect signal. However, if I go out the front door listening to music, there comes a point where the signal starts to break up, as you'd expect. But when I turn round to come back in, the signal instantly comes back solid. In other words, when the receiver is shielded by my body, reception suffers at the edge of range. So yes, I'd expect degradation from an audience between a BT controller and a controlled device.
As for accidental operation of on-screen controls on a phone - well, if it's anything like the Tascam phone controlled devices, you simply turn off the phone screen before you put it in your pocket. The recorder continues to function normally until you turn the phone back on in due course to make any required changes. The chief hazard in a taping situation is that just when you want to set the device running, the link from the phone becomes unresponsive for whatever reason. So prudence dictates that you set the recorder going well in advance, and don't press pause between items.
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I got the F8 today and I've been playing with it for around the last four hours. I had a late change of plans and I'm leaving tomorrow morning for a festival, so it's going to get a workout this weekend.
This thing has an amazing array of features and the review I'm thinking about doing is going to take quite some time, but it will be worth it. I might start a thread and just add to it over the course of time because if I just wait until I review everything and issue the review all at once, it might take awhile before I get a chance to test everything out.
OK, my first impressions are that this thing is amazing. I'm holding my breath about how the preamps sound but it won't be long tomorrow before I get to check them versus my AETA PSP3.
So many positive impressions right now, with the only 'new' negative (other than the items we've discussed previously) is that so far I haven't been able to find any kind of a hold button or hold feature on it. So far, I'm not seeing any way to gang any of the level controls. Even when you link stereo channels, the level controls aren't ganged. However, I've got a feeling this can be resolved with a firmware update. I don't have time tonight to explain in detail and I'll probably have to think it through some. Don't hold me to this yet though.
Construction really seems top notch and solid. The SD card covers are spring loaded doors, not rubber covers and a spot on as far as how they function. I've spent at least a couple hours in the menus now and they're very intuitive and easy to navigate. That said, since the unit is feature rich, it will take some time to learn all of the menu selections.
The buttons are all on par with the buttons on a 7xx with the same basic feel and feedback...though the buttons are generally smaller.
The main toggle knob is black knurled metal and with a very solid feel. The knurling on the knob give you a solid grip. Turning the knob provides a ratcheted detente 'clicky' feel with clicks being succinct and sharp, without being overly clicky feeling (I'm not sure if that makes sense). One click equals one spot movement in the menu up or down. Push in on the toggle knob to select an item from the menu. Again, the click when pushing (as opposed to rotating) is succinct and provides a definitive click with no mushiness whatsoever.
I've done about an hours worth of messing around with the bluetooth interface and, short of wishing it was wifi compatible, its everything I'd hoped for in terms of control. Haven't checked range yet, but my earlier concerns about accidental button pushing are mostly a non-issue. The delay between what you see on the main screen of the F8 and what's seen on the ios device is barely perceptible and won't be an issue.
Sorry I can't write more, but I want to do some more with it tonight so that when I get to the festival tomorrow, I don't mess anything up. Stay tuned next week because I think the recording I do this weekend will really provide a good indication of what can be expected from the preamps...at least for the live music taping crowd.
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Made a case for it.
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm224/vegeta_ban/95B9341A-99E7-4274-B1FB-0AF690409260_zps3kq8ztel.jpg)
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm224/vegeta_ban/80ED6F3C-14FF-408E-A27D-FAAB8C30210F_zpsnxe7cpak.jpg)
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm224/vegeta_ban/F871F227-0572-4107-A073-D82CCA220AE1_zps8xbheyka.jpg)
edit: haha a little Dragon Ball in the background :laugh:
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^ Wow. Now that's what I call solid DIY work. Is it regular denim and did you use a regular ole sewing machine with a needle for heavy material?
I haven't decided yet what I'm going to do for a case. I have an abundance of cases right now, so I'll probably just grab some spare dividers and try and make something work. I'm handy with a sewing machine though so your design/idea is intriguing to me.
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A couple more items of note this morning before I finish packing.
I don't have a power cable with a hirose connector yet, but late last night I checked the generic connectors that came with my Tekkeon 3300 batteries and one of those connectors fits the 12V power input on the back of the F8 perfectly. The connector on the unit is recessed and the adaptaplug connectors are right angle, so at first I didn't think the plugs would fit, but when inserted, the right angle actually fits perfectly snug into the socket while also hugging the back of the unit close enough that when it's sitting in the bottom on the bag there's absolutely no concern with the cable coming out of the bottom of the unit into the bottom of your bag. I'm not 100% at this point, but I doubt I'm going to need to concern myself about getting a cable with a hirose connector made. I know not everyone has these generic Tekkeon connectors laying around, but it's a happy coincidence for me.
The compartment for the batteries is nicely designed. First of all, the door providing access is a metal hinged door held in place with a thumbscrew. There's a solid feel and design all the way around with the access door...gives the feel that it's designed to last. Swinging the door open provides access to a plastic battery tray. The tray hold 8s AA batteries and is a unique and/or proprietary design. It has a pull tab on the end for easily pulling the tray out. Each side of the tray has a hinged cover that snap in place so that once the batteries are in place, they'll stay in place. Nice feature so that if you have a tray in the bottom on your gear bag, batteries won't fall out of the sled. Each side of the sled has a retained ribbon so that extraction of the batteries is simply a tug on the ribbon. While the tray looks as sturdy as your typical plastic battery tray, it's plastic. I can see over time these trays being damaged or getting lost. Since it's a special design, Zoom needs to make available the purchase of spares. Besides having backups for replacement, it would also be nice to have spare packs ready to go in case you're in the middle of a show and you need to change AAs quickly. The bottom line though is that its a nicely designed tray.
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The compartment for the batteries is nicely designed. First of all, the door providing access is a metal hinged door held in place with a thumbscrew. There's a solid feel and design all the way around with the access door...gives the feel that it's designed to last. Swinging the door open provides access to a plastic battery tray. The tray hold 8s AA batteries and is a unique and/or proprietary design. It has a pull tab on the end for easily pulling the tray out. Each side of the tray has a hinged cover that snap in place so that once the batteries are in place, they'll stay in place. Nice feature so that if you have a tray in the bottom on your gear bag, batteries won't fall out of the sled. Each side of the sled has a retained ribbon so that extraction of the batteries is simply a tug on the ribbon. While the tray looks as sturdy as your typical plastic battery tray, it's plastic. I can see over time these trays being damaged or getting lost. Since it's a special design, Zoom needs to make available the purchase of spares. Besides having backups for replacement, it would also be nice to have spare packs ready to go in case you're in the middle of a show and you need to change AAs quickly. The bottom line though is that its a nicely designed tray.
Sounds like a job for 3D printing, calling SRS Recording Services.
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^ Wow. Now that's what I call solid DIY work. Is it regular denim and did you use a regular ole sewing machine with a needle for heavy material?
I haven't decided yet what I'm going to do for a case. I have an abundance of cases right now, so I'll probably just grab some spare dividers and try and make something work. I'm handy with a sewing machine though so your design/idea is intriguing to me.
I sewed most of it by hand, a little bit by a sewing machine. I didn't have access to a machine for most of the build. It was a denim that Joann fabric had on sale, a clear vinyl, and some foam padding for protection. I'm gonna add some straps like the portabrace I have uses to secure it in more.
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I can confirm the Tekkeon adapter works too, I put the number of the adapter earlier in the thread.
A couple more items of note this morning before I finish packing.
I don't have a power cable with a hirose connector yet, but late last night I checked the generic connectors that came with my Tekkeon 3300 batteries and one of those connectors fits the 12V power input on the back of the F8 perfectly. The connector on the unit is recessed and the adaptaplug connectors are right angle, so at first I didn't think the plugs would fit, but when inserted, the right angle actually fits perfectly snug into the socket while also hugging the back of the unit close enough that when it's sitting in the bottom on the bag there's absolutely no concern with the cable coming out of the bottom of the unit into the bottom of your bag. I'm not 100% at this point, but I doubt I'm going to need to concern myself about getting a cable with a hirose connector made. I know not everyone has these generic Tekkeon connectors laying around, but it's a happy coincidence for me.
The compartment for the batteries is nicely designed. First of all, the door providing access is a metal hinged door held in place with a thumbscrew. There's a solid feel and design all the way around with the access door...gives the feel that it's designed to last. Swinging the door open provides access to a plastic battery tray. The tray hold 8s AA batteries and is a unique and/or proprietary design. It has a pull tab on the end for easily pulling the tray out. Each side of the tray has a hinged cover that snap in place so that once the batteries are in place, they'll stay in place. Nice feature so that if you have a tray in the bottom on your gear bag, batteries won't fall out of the sled. Each side of the sled has a retained ribbon so that extraction of the batteries is simply a tug on the ribbon. While the tray looks as sturdy as your typical plastic battery tray, it's plastic. I can see over time these trays being damaged or getting lost. Since it's a special design, Zoom needs to make available the purchase of spares. Besides having backups for replacement, it would also be nice to have spare packs ready to go in case you're in the middle of a show and you need to change AAs quickly. The bottom line though is that its a nicely designed tray.
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I can confirm the Tekkeon adapter works too, I put the number of the adapter earlier in the thread. A couple more items of note this morning before I finish packing.
I don't have a power cable with a hirose connector yet, but late last night I checked the generic connectors that came with my Tekkeon 3300 batteries and one of those connectors fits the 12V power input on the back of the F8 perfectly. The connector on the unit is recessed and the adaptaplug connectors are right angle, so at first I didn't think the plugs would fit, but when inserted, the right angle actually fits perfectly snug into the socket while also hugging the back of the unit close enough that when it's sitting in the bottom on the bag there's absolutely no concern with the cable coming out of the bottom of the unit into the bottom of your bag. I'm not 100% at this point, but I doubt I'm going to need to concern myself about getting a cable with a hirose connector made. I know not everyone has these generic Tekkeon connectors laying around, but it's a happy coincidence for me.
The compartment for the batteries is nicely designed. First of all, the door providing access is a metal hinged door held in place with a thumbscrew. There's a solid feel and design all the way around with the access door...gives the feel that it's designed to last. Swinging the door open provides access to a plastic battery tray. The tray hold 8s AA batteries and is a unique and/or proprietary design. It has a pull tab on the end for easily pulling the tray out. Each side of the tray has a hinged cover that snap in place so that once the batteries are in place, they'll stay in place. Nice feature so that if you have a tray in the bottom on your gear bag, batteries won't fall out of the sled. Each side of the sled has a retained ribbon so that extraction of the batteries is simply a tug on the ribbon. While the tray looks as sturdy as your typical plastic battery tray, it's plastic. I can see over time these trays being damaged or getting lost. Since it's a special design, Zoom needs to make available the purchase of spares. Besides having backups for replacement, it would also be nice to have spare packs ready to go in case you're in the middle of a show and you need to change AAs quickly. The bottom line though is that its a nicely designed tray.
Have you tried unplugging the external battery to see if the F8 reverts to the internal batteries without a glitch ?.
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I have run my Hirose attached external NP-1 12V battery down and it seamlessly switched power over to the internal AA batteries.
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Reading all this gives me an ache in the wallet that no amount of analgesia will cure, but my only justification for buying one would simply be that I WANT ONE!!! :( Thanks for the great review-in-progress and I'm highly impressed with the DIY case.
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Just one thing to add, Steve, please do start a new thread for the extensive review -- it'll be easier for people to find and read that way.
Sounds intriguing, this Zoom F8.... fingers crossed.... though I still share DF's concerns, from what I've heard the newer Zoom units are somewhat better than the ones that give them a bad reputation around here (the H2 and H4N mainly).
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Sounds intriguing, this Zoom F8.... fingers crossed.... though I still share DF's concerns, from what I've heard the newer Zoom units are somewhat better than the ones that give them a bad reputation around here (the H2 and H4N mainly).
The Zoom H4 was the worst recorder I could possibly have started with, although the internal mics weren't bad.
The Zoom H6, however, is quite good and very versatile. I read a great review of it here, gave it a try, and like it very much. I assume the F8 will be a great recorder with tremendous bang for the buck, though I won't be needing one myself as 4 channels are usually enough for me.
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I will def be starting a new thread. These are of course my initial thoughts and I'll be copying alot of this over for sure.
Shocking but there's cell phone coverage at this festival.
I got a chance to use the f8 for five or six hours last night and check preamps against my psp3.
a) this thing is no toy.
b) preamp sound is really good. Seriously not much difference between the sound I'm getting from psp3. This is first impression though from doing a vs b of the sets i recorded last night. I listened for an hour this am in the car so it was a very non controlled listen.
c) clearly the comments the early film guys were making about the headphone amp were coming from a different place than i am. For monitoring of live music, the headphone amp is as good as anyone would want. I have nothing negative to say about it right now.
Metering res is on par with the lights of a 7xx. As far as i can tell, theres no digital peak read out to accompany the level bars. However, the resolution on the bars is really good with more bars as peaks approach 0db and lots of bars between -6db and 0db. There is a setting that changes the level indicator to a solid line instead of bars. I haven't tried that yet.
The Bluetooth app is fairly easy to use but probably a little wonky for doing any serious controlling on an iPhone. I imagine that on an ipad where everything is enlarged on the device touchscreen this comment is probably n/a. Anyway, setting levels on my iPhone was ok to do but requires a steady finger...very sensitive and easy to overshoot, thus the wonky comment. It's great for monitoring though. One you're finished monitoring, it's probably best practice to minimize the app on your device to prevent accidental 'butt dialing' that might result in hitting the stop record button. On my iPhone5 i have a habit of clicking the power button to turn the screen of my phone off to conserve power. When i do that the app disconnects from the f8. It's no problem to reconnect, though though one time i couldn't reconnect after recording had started. I'll have to check that some more to see if that's a chronic issue. Once the unit is in record mode you can't start or restart Bluetooth until you stop recording. However, you can disable Bluetooth any time. Probably good to do once you lose connection while recording in order to save power. The range is about 40 feet unimpeded. I still need to check how far away i can get if it's crowded.
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I can confirm the Tekkeon adapter works too, I put the number of the adapter earlier in the thread. A couple more items of note this morning before I finish packing.
I don't have a power cable with a hirose connector yet, but late last night I checked the generic connectors that came with my Tekkeon 3300 batteries and one of those connectors fits the 12V power input on the back of the F8 perfectly. The connector on the unit is recessed and the adaptaplug connectors are right angle, so at first I didn't think the plugs would fit, but when inserted, the right angle actually fits perfectly snug into the socket while also hugging the back of the unit close enough that when it's sitting in the bottom on the bag there's absolutely no concern with the cable coming out of the bottom of the unit into the bottom of your bag. I'm not 100% at this point, but I doubt I'm going to need to concern myself about getting a cable with a hirose connector made. I know not everyone has these generic Tekkeon connectors laying around, but it's a happy coincidence for me.
The compartment for the batteries is nicely designed. First of all, the door providing access is a metal hinged door held in place with a thumbscrew. There's a solid feel and design all the way around with the access door...gives the feel that it's designed to last. Swinging the door open provides access to a plastic battery tray. The tray hold 8s AA batteries and is a unique and/or proprietary design. It has a pull tab on the end for easily pulling the tray out. Each side of the tray has a hinged cover that snap in place so that once the batteries are in place, they'll stay in place. Nice feature so that if you have a tray in the bottom on your gear bag, batteries won't fall out of the sled. Each side of the sled has a retained ribbon so that extraction of the batteries is simply a tug on the ribbon. While the tray looks as sturdy as your typical plastic battery tray, it's plastic. I can see over time these trays being damaged or getting lost. Since it's a special design, Zoom needs to make available the purchase of spares. Besides having backups for replacement, it would also be nice to have spare packs ready to go in case you're in the middle of a show and you need to change AAs quickly. The bottom line though is that its a nicely designed tray.
Have you tried unplugging the external battery to see if the F8 reverts to the internal batteries without a glitch ?.
Yes, no issues.
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How responsive is the Bluetooth at 40 feet? Are you seeing any lag?
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Hi Steve,
many thanks for the info on the F8.
Did you have any issues with the the headphone output voltage/power of the F8 beeing too low? Many affordable recorders have that problem.
For me the low phone output power/voltage of my Tascam DR-70 (apart from that a very good device) is a real issue. I use a Sennheiser HD-25 for live monitoring and an AKG K702 for checking the recording later. With the Sennheiser the volume is just okay but with the AKG it is certainly too low. The fact that you usually leave 12-16dB of headroom when recording makes the unnormalised file a lot quieter. In addition, quite a few high quality headphones have a lowish sensitivity. First I thought the output power (2x 20mW) is simply too low, but when I played a normalised file on the DR-70 the volume level of the AKG was okay. The phone output stage just doesn't have enough gain. Does the F8 have a more powerful phone output?
Cheers,
S.C.
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How responsive is the Bluetooth at 40 feet? Are you seeing any lag?
Very little lag at all...almost impeceptible. Last night i strolled away from my bag in a crowd and lost connection around 15 or 20 feet.
I used the app some more last night. The drop i experienced the night before was user error. As long as you keep the app active on your phone it will disconnect from the f8 when you minimize the app but then when you call the app up again it will reconnect every time. However, if you close the app down completely on your iphone, you can't reconnect without first stopping the recording. To activate Bluetooth you press and hold the menu button for a couple of seconds.
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Hi Steve,
many thanks for the info on the F8.
Did you have any issues with the the headphone output voltage/power of the F8 beeing too low? Many affordable recorders have that problem.
For me the low phone output power/voltage of my Tascam DR-70 (apart from that a very good device) is a real issue. I use a Sennheiser HD-25 for live monitoring and an AKG K702 for checking the recording later. With the Sennheiser the volume is just okay but with the AKG it is certainly too low. The fact that you usually leave 12-16dB of headroom when recording makes the unnormalised file a lot quieter. In addition, quite a few high quality headphones have a lowish sensitivity. First I thought the output power (2x 20mW) is simply too low, but when I played a normalised file on the DR-70 the volume level of the AKG was okay. The phone output stage just doesn't have enough gain. Does the F8 have a more powerful phone output?
Cheers,
S.C.
There's lots of flexibility available for monitoring. I'm still learning how to use it best but I've discovered some interesting things for my own use. For example, you can set the headphones to monitor the summed output channels post fader. So what i did last night was set my input levels so they were peaking at around -12db. That means the recording on my sd cards is peaking at minus twelve. Once i was happy with my input levels, I set the headphone up to add 12db of gain post fader. So even though i was recording at -12db, I was monitoring at 0db. I'm only using two input channels right now so with exception of the gain, my inputs and outputs are the same.
The headphone amp has its own volume knob (located directly below the menu button) but with the vol knob turned all the way up and monitoring output channels at 0db, the sound from the headphones is LOUD. I could literally feel the low end rumbling in my headphones.
I'm monitoring with audiotechnica ATH-M50.
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Hi Steve,
it's good to hear that the headphone output of the F8 has enough juice. Great!
Many thanks,
S.C.
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Can the F8 be powered from the miniUSB plug, or just the hirose and barrel connectors? The promo material doesn't mention the USB in powering options. The only reason I ask is that many here would use USB packs, but needing the hirose would require a more expensive custom cable.
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Can the F8 be powered from the miniUSB plug, or just the hirose and barrel connectors? The promo material doesn't mention the USB in powering options. The only reason I ask is that many here would use USB packs, but needing the hirose would require a more expensive custom cable.
The voltage required off the hirose for this is 9V -16V and the manual doesn't say anything about powering from the usb (which has a 5V spec) so I have to assume the usb is for file transfer only.
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Can the F8 be powered from the miniUSB plug, or just the hirose and barrel connectors? The promo material doesn't mention the USB in powering options. The only reason I ask is that many here would use USB packs, but needing the hirose would require a more expensive custom cable.
The voltage required off the hirose for this is 9V -16V and the manual doesn't say anything about powering from the usb (which has a 5V spec) so I have to assume the usb is for file transfer only.
Got it. So no powering off those cheap USB batteries at all, even with the proper adapter. Have you found success with any particular external battery?
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I just found a few that might work - looks like you've got to spend $60+ to get decent capacity with a 9V or higher output:
XTPower 10,000 mAh (http://www.amazon.com/XTPower-10000mAh-Recorders-Sensation-Connectors/dp/B00935L44E)
ECEEN 16,000 mAh (http://www.amazon.com/External-Battery-Capacity-Notebooks-Netbooks/dp/B00NFLYWP0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_147_19?ie=UTF8&refRID=0EJQPM28H9E8TS6B9RYF)
Anker Astro Pro2 20,000 mAh (http://www.amazon.com/Anker-20000mAh-Multi-Voltage-Portable-Notebooks/dp/B00B45EOYS/ref=pd_sim_107_7?ie=UTF8&refRID=1H8GG2MEXJS48E9TCB1H)
RavPower 23,000 mAh (http://www.amazon.com/RAVPower-23000mAh-Portable-Charger-External/dp/B00HFMUBYG/ref=pd_cp_107_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=005RB429NGYR3FPS8JBC)
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I just found a few that might work - looks like you've got to spend $60+ to get decent capacity with a 9V or higher output:
XTPower 10,000 mAh (http://www.amazon.com/XTPower-10000mAh-Recorders-Sensation-Connectors/dp/B00935L44E)
ECEEN 16,000 mAh (http://www.amazon.com/External-Battery-Capacity-Notebooks-Netbooks/dp/B00NFLYWP0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_147_19?ie=UTF8&refRID=0EJQPM28H9E8TS6B9RYF)
Anker Astro Pro2 20,000 mAh (http://www.amazon.com/Anker-20000mAh-Multi-Voltage-Portable-Notebooks/dp/B00B45EOYS/ref=pd_sim_107_7?ie=UTF8&refRID=1H8GG2MEXJS48E9TCB1H)
RavPower 23,000 mAh (http://www.amazon.com/RAVPower-23000mAh-Portable-Charger-External/dp/B00HFMUBYG/ref=pd_cp_107_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=005RB429NGYR3FPS8JBC)
That's better than spending $150 for a lithium solution for the hs-p82 or hauling around a 10lbs sla like I do :)
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It ran for about 10hrs off one of my tekkeon 3300 batteries. Phantom was on 24v (my schoeps mics only need 12v) recording two channels stereo, without recording the summed channels, but with the headphones plugged in and on the entire time.
It's been between 85 and 90 all three days of the festival and the recorder has run warm to the touch all weekend, but not hot. About what one would expect.
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I just found a few that might work - looks like you've got to spend $60+ to get decent capacity with a 9V or higher output:
XTPower 10,000 mAh (http://www.amazon.com/XTPower-10000mAh-Recorders-Sensation-Connectors/dp/B00935L44E)
ECEEN 16,000 mAh (http://www.amazon.com/External-Battery-Capacity-Notebooks-Netbooks/dp/B00NFLYWP0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_147_19?ie=UTF8&refRID=0EJQPM28H9E8TS6B9RYF)
Anker Astro Pro2 20,000 mAh (http://www.amazon.com/Anker-20000mAh-Multi-Voltage-Portable-Notebooks/dp/B00B45EOYS/ref=pd_sim_107_7?ie=UTF8&refRID=1H8GG2MEXJS48E9TCB1H)
RavPower 23,000 mAh (http://www.amazon.com/RAVPower-23000mAh-Portable-Charger-External/dp/B00HFMUBYG/ref=pd_cp_107_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=005RB429NGYR3FPS8JBC)
That's better than spending $150 for a lithium solution for the hs-p82 or hauling around a 10lbs sla like I do :)
Yikes, I'd rather lug a 100ft extension cord than a car battery. Have you tried running the HS-P82 off of one of the ones like those I linked? The EXT DC jack says 9-18V / 2A in the images I'm looking at, and all of these would fit those requirements, at least on paper. You'd need to make a custom adapter cable, obviously. I'd guess your runtime wouldn't be as long though.
Since you brought it up, the review comparison I'm most interested to see would be your Tascam vs. the F8. The price range is at least similar for the feature set.
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Fwiw, it ran for about 10hrs off one of my tekkeon 3300 batteries. Phantom was on 24v (my schoeps mics only need 12v) recording two channels stereo, without recording the summed channels, but with the headphones plugged in and on the entire time.
It's been between 85 and 90 all three days of the festival and the recorder has run warm to the touch all weekend.
That's pretty impressive, even with the lower phantom voltage. Sorry if this has been asked already, but can you hot-swap external power during recording, as is the case with many pro recorders?
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Fwiw, it ran for about 10hrs off one of my tekkeon 3300 batteries. Phantom was on 24v (my schoeps mics only need 12v) recording two channels stereo, without recording the summed channels, but with the headphones plugged in and on the entire time.
It's been between 85 and 90 all three days of the festival and the recorder has run warm to the touch all weekend.
That's pretty impressive, even with the lower phantom voltage. Sorry if this has been asked already, but can you hot-swap external power during recording, as is the case with many pro recorders?
Yes, no problem. Disconnect the external battery and the voltage indicator switches to show the voltage from the AAs. Plug a new external in and it switches back to the voltage coming from the external battery. Reminder that I'm using the 12v connection on the back not the hirose power connection.
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How do the Zoom F8 preamps sound?
I recorded Lotus over the weekend from the same location on consecutive nights, with and without my AETA PSP-3 preamp.
Saturday night - Schoeps m934b/CMMT30 > AETA PSP-3 > Zoom F8
https://archive.org/details/lotus2015-09-05.m934b_24bit
Sunday night - Schoeps m934b/CMMT30 > Zoom F8
https://archive.org/details/lotus2015-09-06.m934b_24bit
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Hmmmmm, very interesting comp. I listened to a few tracks of each randomly & while I think I prefer the PSP3 for various reasons I can't complain at all about the Zoom preamps. The one definite is that the Zoom is a touch brighter in the preamp section than the PSP3, the weight of the bass is also a little lighter BUT I think the Zoom was more than acceptable, in fact it sounds pretty damn good to my ears. Great recordings Steve, nice work!
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Hmmmmm, very interesting comp. I listened to a few tracks of each randomly & while I think I prefer the PSP3 for various reasons I can't complain at all about the Zoom preamps. The one definite is that the Zoom is a touch brighter in the preamp section than the PSP3, the weight of the bass is also a little lighter BUT I think the Zoom was more than acceptable, in fact it sounds pretty damn good to my ears. Great recordings Steve, nice work!
At some point in the near future, I will do a side-by-side comp using the same basic mics recording simultaneously to separate tracks. Since I'd just gotten the F8 though, I wasn't ready for that this weekend.
For the recordings I did this weekend, I just wanted to get a general feel for whether I'd even want to consider using the internals and the answer is a definite yes. I recorded 13 bands over the weekend. I think I did five with the PSP3 and eight without. I'll be posting more shows over the next day or two.
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I really need to listen to this on something other than my office computer speakers. Phones and monitors I think. Thanks Steve, preamp quality is kind of the leading make or break criterion for me!
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Hmmmmm, very interesting comp. I listened to a few tracks of each randomly & while I think I prefer the PSP3 for various reasons I can't complain at all about the Zoom preamps. The one definite is that the Zoom is a touch brighter in the preamp section than the PSP3, the weight of the bass is also a little lighter BUT I think the Zoom was more than acceptable, in fact it sounds pretty damn good to my ears. Great recordings Steve, nice work!
Thanks for the comparison. Agreed both are very nice recordings. Think carl made a good point with bass heavy mics if your looking for a brighter pre-amp section this would be a choice of a way to go. Though if you have bright mics the brightness in the preamp section may be too much.
Listening on home system and actually prefer the straight mic in to recorder (no pre-amp). Not sure I could identify this source as a schoeps (no pre-amp) sound.
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Thanks for the comparison. Agreed both are very nice recordings. Think carl made a good point with bass heavy mics if your looking for a brighter pre-amp section this would be a choice of a way to go. Though if you have bright mics the brightness in the preamp section may be too much.
FWIW, the two recordings weren't really posted as a comp. Since the two shows were 24 hours apart, I don't think any conclusions can be made from the tonal differences from one to the other.
I'm pretty sure alot of people here know the PSP3 sound, so I thought it might be useful to listen to the F8 preamps against those made with the PSP3 to form a conclusion of the general quality of the onboard preamps in the F8.
I think they have similar detail and general quality of sound.
As mentioned earlier, sometime soon I'll connect all four of my M934B/CMMT30 mics, one pair through the PSP3 and the other straight in, so that the comp is done using the same type of mics recording the same music. I think that would be the comp to really make some conclusions about tonal differences.
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Completely agree Steve, comp isn't the right term since it was two separate nights but that being said it's a general thought process of listening to two similar sources. Either way I found the Zoom impressive & happy I placed my bet, I mean order, on one. From these recordings I was pleased to hear that in this instance the Zoom held its own vs a very high quality preamp.
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I run only matrixes.. I want this unit for its coolness factor but do I really need it over my DR-680 mkll? Stage mics left and right...Fof and maybe straight vocals... I like a drum overhead... ok that's 5 channels... yes I can record the guitar or bass or harp or keys.. but then to blend them in...
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They are in stock at Adorama. I just ordered one. It looks like they have plenty of them.
I put a dozen in my shopping cart and proceeded to checkout. They seemed ready to check
me out for $12,000. I then emptied my cart and put one back in. I should have it tomorrow.
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They seemed ready to check
me out for $12,000. I then emptied my cart and put one back in.
And some guy at Adorama is probably still wiping away tears even now... :)
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Starting to gain some interest in the F8!! Thanks for all the links
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wow....all of this excitment here for a Zoom product have I oficially entered Bizarro-world?! lol..jk...glad to see they have stepped up their game....the more quality choices the better gonna keep an eye on this thread :P
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Just pulled the trigger
Looking at this being my last recorder... big selloff off of DR-680s to come
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Looking at this being my last recorder...
Reminds me of the Revox adverts from days of yore - "The recorder you will eventually own".
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Looking at this being my last recorder...
Whatever!!!!!
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If this works out - the one company who has "stepped up their game" will be Zoom...
No offense to TASCAM - who's products I own and like...
But ZOOM has - perhaps - stepped into a void - where a product was needed.
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How do the Zoom F8 preamps sound?
I recorded Lotus over the weekend from the same location on consecutive nights, with and without my AETA PSP-3 preamp.
Saturday night - Schoeps m934b/CMMT30 > AETA PSP-3 > Zoom F8
https://archive.org/details/lotus2015-09-05.m934b_24bit
Sunday night - Schoeps m934b/CMMT30 > Zoom F8
https://archive.org/details/lotus2015-09-06.m934b_24bit
Thanks
Marking now to listen later...
Looking forward to my own ears comp
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Thanks for the comparison. Agreed both are very nice recordings. Think carl made a good point with bass heavy mics if your looking for a brighter pre-amp section this would be a choice of a way to go. Though if you have bright mics the brightness in the preamp section may be too much.
FWIW, the two recordings weren't really posted as a comp. Since the two shows were 24 hours apart, I don't think any conclusions can be made from the tonal differences from one to the other.
I'm pretty sure alot of people here know the PSP3 sound, so I thought it might be useful to listen to the F8 preamps against those made with the PSP3 to form a conclusion of the general quality of the onboard preamps in the F8.
I think they have similar detail and general quality of sound.
As mentioned earlier, sometime soon I'll connect all four of my M934B/CMMT30 mics, one pair through the PSP3 and the other straight in, so that the comp is done using the same type of mics recording the same music. I think that would be the comp to really make some conclusions about tonal differences.
I also preferred the direct-in recording without the PSP3, though it's really hard to judge two different performances, etc. The direct-in recording had better clarity in the treble, but that could also be a slightly different PA mix that day. They both sound great.
If you're going to do a 4-mic test like you describe, you'll have to have the 2 pairs pretty much coincident in order to really make a real comparison. (You probably thought of this already.)
It would be interesting to hear a test of how quiet the pres are by recording some quiet room ambiance, or a solo instrument in an empty room, etc. Not sure if that's ever a situation you're in or not.
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As always, thanks for putting this up Steve. These things are always hard, but I actually got a lot out of this and found it quite revealing. I listened to both nights as well as the recordings from Bean, just to get a sense of possible FoH mix differences.
The one definite is that the Zoom is a touch brighter in the preamp section than the PSP3...
At this point, this is my initial reaction. But I don't think it's just a touch brighter, I think think it sounds as though the high-end EQ was cranked up 8dB and exactly like the tell-tale sign I hear when I've gone way overboard with the high-end EQ in post.
For me, it's most revealing during loud audience roars. I would recommend listening to the end of "Cream On Chrome" from both Steve and Bean on night 2. Listen to the end of the track. The guy screaming near the mic stand sticks out like a sore thumb to me on the Zoom only recording. It's incredibly grating on my ears and sounds distorted. On Bean's, it's certainly loud, but not harsh.
Having listened to all 4 source (2x Steve, 2x Bean), my opinion is that the PSP-3 recording from night 1 and both 70d recordings have far better balance. Definitely more potential for work in post. With the Zoom only recording, I think it needs legitimate first aid... a high-end cut for sure.
My opinion isn't made up just yet, but from these recordings I'm hearing a pretty glaring difference in frequency response.
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I would think that the timbre of a guy's screaming near a mic stand is probably not the best measure by which to
evaluate any piece of audio equipment.
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Here's a true blue side-by-side comp. Both sets of mics are m934b capsules and CMMT30 bodies...one set sent through an AETA PSP3 and the other directly to the Zoom F8 preamps. The mics were on the same stand, one set directly above the other by about four inches or so. This recording was made in a really small room with 30 or 40 people in attendance. I set up at a table about 15 feet back. The mics were just above the height of the table. During the second set, people stood up so there was some minor level of interference. I'm not sure if that's noticeable though because of the small size of the room and the generally loud sound level.
M934b/CMMT30 > PSP3 > Zoom F8
https://archive.org/details/jazzam2015-09-10.m934b_24bit
M934b/CMMT30 > Zoom F8
https://archive.org/details/jazzam2015-09-10.934b_24bit
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Here's a true blue side-by-side comp. Both sets of mics are m934b capsules and CMMT30 bodies...one set sent through an AETA PSP3 and the other directly to the Zoom F8 preamps. The mics were on the same stand, one set directly above the other by about four inches or so. This recording was made in a really small room with 30 or 40 people in attendance. I set up at a table about 15 feet back. The mics were just above the height of the table. During the second set, people stood up so there was some minor level of interference. I'm not sure if that's noticeable though because of the small size of the room and the generally loud sound level.
M934b/CMMT30 > PSP3 > Zoom F8
https://archive.org/details/jazzam2015-09-10.m934b_24bit
M934b/CMMT30 > Zoom F8
https://archive.org/details/jazzam2015-09-10.934b_24bit
Well both recordings sound absolutely identical to me, and identically great at that. So identical in fact, I was curious and did the classic "null test" on tracks 7 and 12 from each recording and they null absolutely perfectly. As in, spectrum analysis of the resulting file is nothing at all, waveform stats have all values at negative infinity. Are you sure you didn't upload the same file set twice with different labels? Even with your levels of all 4 channels exactly spot on and 4 capsules closely matched, it shouldn't be that absolutely perfect a null unless I'm missing something.
EDIT: I forgot to mention I downloaded the FLACs for this. I also just analyzed the original files in RX, and the min/max/RMS values for both sets of files are identical down to .01 dB resolution, and spectrum is perfectly identical as well. I think that proves my suspicion that you accidentally uploaded the same file set twice.
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Well both recordings sound absolutely identical to me, and identically great at that.
Argh. Thanks and sorry about that. I just finished uploading the corrected files.
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Well both recordings sound absolutely identical to me, and identically great at that.
Argh. Thanks and sorry about that. I just finished uploading the corrected files.
Just downloaded Track 7 to compare again. PSP in the chain wins easily for me. The bass guitar and kick have so much more presence that the direct to F8 seems very lean by comparison. The treble is pretty close though, at least on this quick listen. Spectrum analysis also shows that the right channel is about 5dB lower than the left in the direct track, and is lower in general throughout. I'm sure you matched your levels well, so that part was surprising.
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Well both recordings sound absolutely identical to me, and identically great at that.
Argh. Thanks and sorry about that. I just finished uploading the corrected files.
I'm sure you matched your levels well, so that part was surprising.
Not necessarily. It was two - hour long sets and in the small room the dynamics were changing frequently since Poogie was hammering the daylights out of his drumset and drowning out everyone else then the next song he'd back off a little bit. By the end of the first set I gave up trying to keep everything matched up and then I didn't spend hours mastering this up just to make sure every song has perfect balance throughout...that's why I linked to the whole set.
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Thanks for the comparison Steve!!
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Well both recordings sound absolutely identical to me, and identically great at that.
Argh. Thanks and sorry about that. I just finished uploading the corrected files.
I'm sure you matched your levels well, so that part was surprising.
Not necessarily. It was two - hour long sets and in the small room the dynamics were changing frequently since Poogie was hammering the daylights out of his drumset and drowning out everyone else then the next song he'd back off a little bit. By the end of the first set I gave up trying to keep everything matched up and then I didn't spend hours mastering this up just to make sure every song has perfect balance throughout...that's why I linked to the whole set.
I get that. Please don't think I was criticizing - both recordings sound really great - I just wanted to put a couple tracks through analysis to try and explain the differences I was hearing. I've been listening to random tracks of the set, and I still prefer the PSP in the chain for what it does to the bass - it's almost as if the F8 direct track has a gentle LF rolloff on the lowest frequencies in comparison. Note that I can only hear this through my sealed Sennheiser HD380 cans. Other than that the sound between both recordings is very, very close. The question is which one is more "accurate" to the sound you heard live?
I think you've definitely shown the pres on the F8 are high quality. One thing for sure - this band is definitely awesome. Never heard of them before - maybe they'll make it out to my side of the state sometime.
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...
The question is which one is more "accurate" to the sound you heard live?
I'm not really sure.
Like you, I hear little to no difference at all between the samples in the high frequencies. While I would describe their character as close, I definitely prefer the PSP3 samples better as well. The PSP3 sample has more air and soundstage.
In spite of the better air of the PSP3 samples, in some ways the non-PSP3 sample sounds more like what it sounded live. As I was recording, my main concern for the recording was that the drums would dominate the recording and not let anything else through. I know that my ears weren't hearing much else because the acoustic volume of Poogies playing was very loud. On both recordings, the drums definitely dominate but less so on the PSP3 recording.
One thing for sure - this band is definitely awesome. Never heard of them before - maybe they'll make it out to my side of the state sometime.
Unfortunately that's probably not very likely. Jazzam has been a band for I think 15 years or so and they've always been based in Pittsburgh. They traveled in the early years when the guys were young, but now they all have families. I've always LOVED them and felt they deserved more recognition...alot more. Their biggest gigs were All Good two years in a row...I think 2007 and 2008. The band just never caught on real big, other than with a rabid group here in Pittsburgh. I think when it didn't happen for them in the afterglow of All Good, a couple of the guys that were looking to make a life in music decided they needed to move on. So, they announced and played their last gig with their best line-up on NYE of 2009. Sniff...I still haven't recovered. The drummer, keyboard player and singer have either moved away or are in different bands. But the core of the band was two guys that now play in different projects, but those two guys, when they play together, will always consider themselves to be Jazzam.
Jazzam made a comeback in 2012 as Jazzam 2.0 and they played around Pittsburgh somewhat irregularly through perhaps the end of 2013, but Marc the bass player was offered a full time gig in No Bad Juju (a popular Pittsburgh band that plays mostly covers and some originals). With three sons and a wife, that gig paid the bills so Jazzam was once again put on the shelf.
So, this recording was the first Jazzam set that's been played since I think October or November of 2013.
Please do me a favor...and do yourself a favor...go onto archive and choose one of my recordings from...oh 2008 and find a song named 'Time Flies'. It's one of my favorite instrumental songs of all time...by any band.
Then once you're finished listening to that, check out a 2013 era song named 'Prime Time (lost my shit)'.
Love these guys.
EDITED:
Check Track 1: https://archive.org/details/jazzam2008-01-26.km140
Check Track 9: https://archive.org/details/jazzam2013-08-02.m934b_24bit
EDIT 2:
If you like the above, some of the other really strong songs from the 2008 time frame; That Jazz, Bafangool, Seben, and Opus One.
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I have batteries in the holder... From the system menu I can see 10.4V... but the unit won't run off of batteries??? Any Ideas? Am I missing something? This Brick is the coolest thing I've ever owned.
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I found this review, posted yesterday (15 September 2015):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3wQAJpzd8w
Regards, Christine
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Great link, I'm watching and weeping... if any of you guys decide to give yours away, let me know!
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I have batteries in the holder... From the system menu I can see 10.4V... but the unit won't run off of batteries??? Any Ideas? Am I missing something? This Brick is the coolest thing I've ever owned.
You probably need to go into the menu and change the minimum voltage for the AAs. It must have defaulted to something more than 10.4v.
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I found this review, posted yesterday (15 September 2015):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3wQAJpzd8w
Regards, Christine
Thanks for the link.
For the most part, I agree with his conclusions. He did get one thing wrong though. He either says or implies that you can't mix without the IOS app. That's flat out wrong. A couple of the menu screens are used for mixing and there are a few input menus as well. That said, the app is probably easier and quicker to use than the menu screens.
He also said a couple of things that I kinda take exception to...or at least will comment on from my perspective.
He expresses concern about the size of the knobs and that there's alot on the face of the unit. I don't really think there's anything to worry about there. At first I was also concerned about the possibility of pressing buttons accidentally while adjusting levels, but it's not an issue. Also, I have really fat fingers and the level knobs, while small, aren't too small for me. I do kinda wish they were cylindrical shaped instead of the shape they are, but that's just preference.
Finally, they keep making issues about the headphone amp. For what we do, the concerns expressed is simply a non-issue. In fact, the headphone monitoring capability is far superior to anything I've ever used. From the overall volume level, to the ability to isolate channels, to the ability to choose pre and post fader (and therefore pre and post limiter/roll off) I find the overall functionality for monitoring to be an awesome function of this thing.
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Pretty good review. This thing looks good, but my really sole issues are 1) apparently bright preamps, a personal deal killer. But I have to hear. Might work for some but not with 4022s, 2) having to buy new xlr>1/4 cables to run a pre line in, because I wouldn't be using the preamps. Enough to make it not to work for me.
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Pretty good review. This thing looks good, but my really sole issues are 1) apparently bright preamps, a personal deal killer. But I have to hear. Might work for some but not with 4022s, 2) having to buy new xlr>1/4 cables to run a pre line in, because I wouldn't be using the preamps. Enough to make it not to work for me.
Here's some feedback you might be able to use...I'm not sure.
For the show that I recorded and posted links to on the previous page of this thread on the 12th (Jazzam at James Street), it was pretty darn loud in that room. The knobs were positioned at around 10 o'clock or so for the majority of the evening for the mics that didn't have the preamp in front. I was using XLRs, so mic in.
I'm not sure how your DPAs compare in sensitivity to my Schoeps.
I don't think the preamps are bright, but I'm a Schoeps guy and you're DPA so I may have a natural predilection to brightness. If you're familiar with the native sound of a PSP3, the straight up Jazzam comp I refer to above should give some good indications. I've also posted a number of shows from the weekend of Summerdance onto archive that didn't use the PSP3 in front, but I EQ my sources to taste so I can't say for sure at this point which were tweeked and by how much. I just don't remember what I did to every show.
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Thanks for the info. A lot of people like to pair the dpas with bright pres, I've tried with v2>2k and v3 and grew to hate both. My ears have liked the psp2 148 and wmod661 best. And I'd guess this sound really nice with Schoeps no need for added warmth. I really need to listen.
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Musicstore Thomann (Germany) told to have the Zoom F8 in stock tomorrow (21.09.2015)...so I'm looking forward to it.
However, I have some problems to find such an extern professional accu-pack with a 4pin Hirose connector?? With my Zoom H6 I can use nearly every extern accupack with a normal USB connector available at amazon (I use a Anker accu pack)
Is it not possible with F8??
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Musicstore Thomann (Germany) told to have the Zoom F8 in stock tomorrow (21.09.2015)...so I'm looking forward to it.
However, I have some problems to find such an extern professional accu-pack with a 4pin Hirose connector?? With my Zoom H6 I can use nearly every extern accupack with a normal USB connector available at amazon (I use a Anker accu pack)
Is it not possible with F8??
The voltage from a USB connector is 5V, so you wouldn't be able to power the Zoom F8 from anything that connects to a USB port. I plan to buy the hirose connector separately and make a cable to accommodate the batteries that I already have that provide at least 9V, since the spec at the hirose connector is for 9V to 16V input. We have cable makers here on Taperssection that can make such a cable for you, or since you're in Germany I imagine there's a specialty electronics person or electronics repair person you could contact.
Or if you're handy with a soldering iron and a multi-meter and you understand the concept of battery polarity, the diagrams you need to make your own cable are included in the manual.
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Musicstore Thomann (Germany) told to have the Zoom F8 in stock tomorrow (21.09.2015)...so I'm looking forward to it.
However, I have some problems to find such an extern professional accu-pack with a 4pin Hirose connector?? With my Zoom H6 I can use nearly every extern accupack with a normal USB connector available at amazon (I use a Anker accu pack)
Is it not possible with F8??
The voltage from a USB connector is 5V, so you wouldn't be able to power the Zoom F8 from anything that connects to a USB port. I plan to buy the hirose connector separately and make a cable to accommodate the batteries that I already have that provide at least 9V, since the spec at the hirose connector is for 9V to 16V input. We have cable makers here on Taperssection that can make such a cable for you, or since you're in Germany I imagine there's a specialty electronics person or electronics repair person you could contact.
Or if you're handy with a soldering iron and a multi-meter and you understand the concept of battery polarity, the diagrams you need to make your own cable are included in the manual.
Ok, I understand, thanks for the reply.
So, which kind of 12V DC Power do you use? And do you know a person who could make such a hirose 4pin cable for me that I can connect to the 12 V DC power output??
Do you mean such a cable:
http://www.markertek.com/product/hr4m-dcp21-03/hirose-hr10a-4pin-male-to-2-1mm-dc-plug-dc-out-power-cable-3ft
to connect it with such a powerbank:
http://www.amazon.de/RAVPower%C2%AE-23000mAh-Externer-Multi-Volt-Smartphones/dp/B00JGER8JW/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1442955159&sr=8-16&keywords=12+v+dc+akku
The external 12V accu that was shown at the Zoom F8 Video by Curtis Judd (Anton Bauer Digital 90 Gold Mount Battery) is really, really big and not portable for me...also quite expensive.
So I hope for a smaller and cheaper way to power the Zoom F8 for longer recording sessions.
PS: Btw, Thanks for the great Jazzam show with Poogie on drums, I saw him several times with his own Band here in different jazzclubs in Germany. Great funky (loud) stuff :-)
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^ You're welcome Ricola. I'm amazed that you know Poogie Bell. He's from here in Pittsburgh.
OK, you're on the right track with the links you provided. The only problem is that there's no indication whether or not the connector at the opposite end of the hirose connector on that cable would fit properly into the RAV Power battery. The size of that connector isn't provided in the specs of the battery, though the size of the cable connector appears to be 2.1mm. It would be awful to order both products only to discover that the cable doesn't fit the battery properly.
I have a TON of Tekkeon 3300 and I love them. These batteries include a cable that connects with a special connector into the battery. The other end is a generic adaptaplug connector. The package includes maybe ten or so standard size power connectors that all plug into the adaptaplug. I happily found out that one of these standard connectors fits perfectly into the 12V socket on the back of the F8. Since these adaptplugs are all right angle, they fit just perfectly in the bottom of my gear bag. On mine, the connector is very solidly seated in the socket, so I have no concern with the connector coming out of the socket, especially since when I put the F8 in my bag, it's resting on top of the right angle of the connector which serves to keep it in place. So, I'm perfectly happy powering my F8 with this method. I don't think I'm even going to bother with having a cable made to connect my Tekkeons with a hirose connector, since when I'm in the field I already have redundant powering between the back connector and the AA battery tray.
If you look in US ebay, there are some Tekkeon 3300's listed FOR CHEAP! The reason they're cheap is even though they're unused batteries in new packaging, they are fairly old from a shelf life perspective. So, these batteries are at least a few years old and probably even older. Some people on taperssection bought these batteries and they arrived dead. However, for what I paid I've had good luck with them. I've got 23 of them!! Of the 23 that I bought well over a year ago, all 23 worked fine when I got them and one has died since I got it. Four out of the 23 don't give me full capacity so I think they're on their way out...I'll refurbish them when that happens.
One of the full capacity Tekkeon 3300 batteries powers my Zoom F8 for about 9 or 10 hours if I'm recording to two channels, with 24V phantom turned on (my mics use 12V phantom, not 48V), with none of the output channels turned on, and with the unit powering a pair of ATH-M50 headphones the whole time.
So, I think if I was you, I'd consider buying some of these Tekkeons and using the 12v connector on the back instead of the hirose. MUCH cheaper option even after paying overseas shipping of the battery. Since they're so cheap, perhaps you should buy...say four of them. That way if any of them arrive dead, it's no big deal...at least in comparison to paying 90Euro's for the RAV power battery. (For what it's worth, I refurbish batteries, so if any of mine go dead, I'll simply crack it open and replace the cells inside.)
If you'd like, buy your batteries and have them sent to me and I'll test them for you. I'll remove them from the packaging and send the good batteries (and all of the accessories) to you in Germany. If there are any bad batteries, you can decide what to do with those. Without the packaging the box would be much smaller and less expensive to ship. Just a thought...consider it an option.
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^ Steve, is Poogie Bell open taping? Do you happen to have a contact e-mail? He is playing at one of my favorite venues in Rotterdam in December. I also see a date scheduled in Amsterdam, but no tour itinerary is listed on his website, so I am curious where else he will do shows...
[Sorry for the off-topic post.]
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^ Steve, is Poogie Bell open taping? Do you happen to have a contact e-mail? He is playing at one of my favorite venues in Rotterdam in December. I also see a date scheduled in Amsterdam, but no tour itinerary is listed on his website, so I am curious where else he will do shows...
[Sorry for the off-topic post.]
Actually, as far as I know he's not, sorry to say. My homies make up Jazzam and I've recorded them numerous times over the years. Glenn, the guitar player, is now a regular in Poogie's band (not sure if Glenn in traveling over there with him though) so it was only natural for Poogie to sit in with this bunch since it was a one-time deal. Glenn's told me in the past that Poogie is very anti-taper.
In fact, I was setting up before this particular show and everyone in the band was very excited to see me come in and set up since it was such a rare Jazzam event, so in a down moment I introduced myself to Poogie, tried to strike up a conversation by explaining that Marc and Glenn love being recorded, etc. He politely shook my hand and turned away without saying anything. I might be over-reading or misinterpreting that encounter, but he certainly didn't seem overly happy to see me setting up, even if it wasn't his gig...not that I expect people to jump for joy that I'm taping them. LOL.
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Thanks. That's too bad, but I think I will still try to catch the show. That dude crushes shit...
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Can anyone think of a reason not to use the 12 DC input with a 12v battery? or would the hirose connector be the one to favor?
Just wondering because it seems like it might be simpler to run a 12v LiIon into the place were the AC > !2v DC power plug would go, like we do in other decks like the DR-680 or HDP2.
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The first true test of the F8 preamps in my book has just been uploaded. Take a listen:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174843.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174843.0)
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As an owner of the F8 as well as a few Sound Devices products, I have been using the 4pin Hirose 12v power for some time with the SD product and it works just the same for the Zoom F8, as you can use the Hirose Power Cup and a XLNPH NP Type Battery.
You can make your own as a inexpensive solution or have someone here on taperssection make one or even expedite if the need is now for overnight delivery from places such as B&H or Adorama ($89) ? It's an investment for those that may not have any of this, but I had been using these NP1 NP-1 Style NiCd batteries for some time re. to video power. Having a few of these and then investing in the power cup for the SD, it was a no cost switch for me from the SD to the F8 using this outboard power.
I am sure other 12v Battery soultions will work as well with the 4 pin Hisrose connection. I only used one type 12v (NP1 NP-1 Style NiCd) from what I already had.
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So... Where are we? NOTHING posted for three weeks....? Personally i'm lovin mine.
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So... Where are we? NOTHING posted for three weeks....? Personally i'm lovin mine.
Used mine a couple more times and it was rock solid. Accepted everything i threw at it including different size and speed sd cards. Preamps sound great too... Maybe not quite as great as my psp3 but afaic the psp3 is one of the best sounding mobile stand alone preamps ever. I absolutely love this Zoom F8.
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So... Where are we? NOTHING posted for three weeks....? Personally i'm lovin mine.
Used mine a couple more times and it was rock solid. Accepted everything i threw at it including different size and speed sd cards. Preamps sound great too... Maybe not quite as great as my psp3 but afaic the psp3 is one of the best sounding mobile stand alone preamps ever. I absolutely love this Zoom F8.
ZOOMIE! :P
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I'm still waiting for mine to come in which reminds me that I need to check the status.
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I'm on Pro Sound's wait list... can't believe I'm about to be a Zoomie but hey, the times are changin'...
I could've used that BT level monitoring twice this week, too.
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I used mine the other night for a jazz guitar and piano duo. It sounds fantastic. Clean and detailed, no need for external pre amps.
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I'm on Pro Sound's wait list... can't believe I'm about to be a Zoomie but hey, the times are changin'...
I could've used that BT level monitoring twice this week, too.
I wondered if you'd gotten it yet. Yeah, I hear you about the mental hurdle of actually buying a Zoom product, but seriously that whole thought process goes away almost immediately after you get your hands on it and fire it up. If nothing else, all those pretty lights it makes are so much fun to watch in the dark!
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I'm on Pro Sound's wait list... can't believe I'm about to be a Zoomie but hey, the times are changin'...
I could've used that BT level monitoring twice this week, too.
I wondered if you'd gotten it yet. Yeah, I hear you about the mental hurdle of actually buying a Zoom product, but seriously that whole thought process goes away almost immediately after you get your hands on it and fire it up. If nothing else, all those pretty lights it makes are so much fun to watch in the dark!
Yeah -- I emailed Justin at Pro Sound right after going through your PMs about it. It just seems like the right fit as long as it works. I'd love to have a Sonosax/Aeta/SD machine, but SD doesn't really make something current-generation that does what I want it to do, and the there's also the cost. I can buy Aeta and Sonosax pres in the YS and still save $$$ over their units.... :)
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If anyone gets one of these and DOESN'T like it give me a shout out. I'll take it off your hands.
I get the opportunity to do multichannel sometimes and this deck plus a 6 channel TRS snake looks like the way to go.
Only bummer for me is that the only two things that require external power for me in my current rig (the Reference Audio Designs Preamp and the DR60d) both take 5V so I'll have to pony up for new external power. When I do multitrack I usually have acccess to AC mains so not that big a deal.
Anyone run it off AAs yet?
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One of my concerns is with the level knobs--looks easy to knock around, especially when you're not able to secure it in best location. Is there a software way to disable the knobs? I thought I saw something like that in the manual but don't quite remember.
Anybody get a chance to give the bluetooth controls some real practice?
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I've been thinking about the F8 for 4 channels or more!! I think I'll wait a bit and see how it plays out for the early adopters. I don't trust my 70d and don't expect tascam to rush to fix the card issues. Look forward to hearing more recordings with the F8.
I'm on Pro Sound's wait list... can't believe I'm about to be a Zoomie but hey, the times are changin'...
I could've used that BT level monitoring twice this week, too.
I wondered if you'd gotten it yet. Yeah, I hear you about the mental hurdle of actually buying a Zoom product, but seriously that whole thought process goes away almost immediately after you get your hands on it and fire it up. If nothing else, all those pretty lights it makes are so much fun to watch in the dark!
Yeah -- I emailed Justin at Pro Sound right after going through your PMs about it. It just seems like the right fit as long as it works. I'd love to have a Sonosax/Aeta/SD machine, but SD doesn't really make something current-generation that does what I want it to do, and the there's also the cost. I can buy Aeta and Sonosax pres in the YS and still save $$$ over their units.... :)
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One of my concerns is with the level knobs--looks easy to knock around, especially when you're not able to secure it in best location. Is there a software way to disable the knobs? I thought I saw something like that in the manual but don't quite remember.
Hardware: you push stop at the same time as one of the pfl buttons to disable all the level knobs, push 'em again to re-enable.
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Hardware: you push stop at the same time as one of the pfl buttons to disable all the level knobs, push 'em again to re-enable.
I could definitely see myself not quite pressing them at the same time and stopping my recording. :facepalm:
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Hardware: you push stop at the same time as one of the pfl buttons to disable all the level knobs, push 'em again to re-enable.
I could definitely see myself not quite pressing them at the same time and stopping my recording. :facepalm:
Seriously, I would be terrified of using that!
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Hardware: you push stop at the same time as one of the pfl buttons to disable all the level knobs, push 'em again to re-enable.
I could definitely see myself not quite pressing them at the same time and stopping my recording. :facepalm:
Seriously, I would be terrified of using that!
I'll double check this and report back. The pfl buttons have a very definite click to them so i think that might be the key to not screwing this up.
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If they have this function, then it seems logical to me that they could easily introduce channel ganging. This could be done in the menus, but it seems like a quick shortcut could work also. Here's how I would do it:
Hold PFL for the channel that will be the master control of your ganged channels. (... and in the darkness, bind them.) Holding a certain number of seconds will pop up "channel gang mode" on screen and the PFL switch may then be released.
Press and release the PFL for each slave channel (ex.: Hold channel 1, press and release 2, 3, and 4 and now those four channels are controlled by the channel 1 gain pot.)
To un-slave channels, repeat the above steps toggling the slaved channels off.
Regarding the STOP + PFL shortcut, why couldn't they just use PLAY + PFL instead since hitting PLAY on its own while recording probably wouldn't do anything?
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I checked a couple things out tonight.
The level hold function...it can only be implemented before you hit the record button. It won't work once recording is started.
I tested the continuous save feature. It turns out its not a true continuous save. The unit will write data up to within the last minute of losing power. So for example, what i did was played the F8 for 58 seconds and unplugged power. Nothing was saved. I repeated and this time let the recording go for 63 seconds and the second time 60 seconds was saved.
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Under the F8 main menu item entitled 'SD Card', there are three options 1) Information 2) Performance Test and 3) Format. For the performance test, there are two choices 1) Quick Test and 2) Full Test. The quick test takes perhaps 20 or 30 seconds to perform and the full test takes around 47 minutes per 16gb card.
I did the quick test on all of the SD and micro-SD cards that I own and here are the results.
SD Cards
OK - PNY Premium 32gb Class 4
OK - Sandisk Ultra Plus 16gb Class 10 (40mb/s)
OK - Lexar Plantinum II 64gb Class 10 (200x)
OK - Sandisk SDHC Card 32gb Class 4
OK - PNY Premium 16gb Class 4
NG - Patriot LX Series 128gb Class 10
Micro-SD Cards in an SD Card adapter
OK - Adata 32gb Class 4
OK - Sandisk 16gb Class 4
OK - Sandisk Ultra Plus 64gb Class 10
Invalid Card - PNY 128gb Class 10
OK - Sandisk Ultra 8gb Class 10
In the past couple of years, I've purchased two fake micro-SD cards. I was curious how the F8 would read those. In one case, it wouldn't even recognize that an SD card was inserted into the slot, in the other case it returned the 'invalid card' message.
It's interesting that the only two cards that didn't pass were the 128gb cards. For what it's worth, both of these cards were the cheapest cards I could find when I mail-ordered them (one from Newegg and one from B&H). There's probably a lesson there. I use the PNY micro-SD card in my Fiio X3 player...the card is close to being full and it seems to function fine in my player so I'm not sure why it showed as an invalid card in the Zoom, say rather than the unit testing the card and returning a NG result.
I'd love to hear other owners' results, especially which 128gb cards you might be getting an OK test with.
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In the past couple of years, I've purchased two fake micro-SD cards.
While maybe too late for you, these links may help others:
http://www.ebay.com/gds/FAKE-SanDisk-Ultra-Secure-Digital-Cards-Exposed-/10000000001254879/g.html (http://www.ebay.com/gds/FAKE-SanDisk-Ultra-Secure-Digital-Cards-Exposed-/10000000001254879/g.html)
http://rmprepusb.blogspot.com/2013/10/a-faster-test-for-fake-sd-cards-and-usb.html (http://rmprepusb.blogspot.com/2013/10/a-faster-test-for-fake-sd-cards-and-usb.html)
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This is a long thread and I haven't read it all, but does the recorder have any backup features, or issues with saving files in case of power failure/batteries?
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This is a long thread and I haven't read it all, but does the recorder have any backup features, or issues with saving files in case of power failure/batteries?
Short-short answer, yes, Steve tested that. It has to run for at least 1 min I believe before the backup starts working...
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On a different note, anyone notice the price increase for the F8 now that the pre-order is over. WOW!
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Still $999 on B & H and Sweetwater!
On a different note, anyone notice the price increase for the F8 now that the pre-order is over. WOW!
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This is a long thread and I haven't read it all, but does the recorder have any backup features, or issues with saving files in case of power failure/batteries?
Short-short answer, yes, Steve tested that. It has to run for at least 1 min I believe before the backup starts working...
Yes, that seems correct. I think what can be concluded is that it seems to save in one minute chunks. I'm not 100% on this, but I think what my test showed is that if you happen to lose power, say a few seconds after the one minute chunk is saved then you might only lose a few seconds of your recording. If you're less lucky and lose power towards the tail end of that time frame, you might lose up to just short of a minutes worth. But seems like the most you're ever exposed to lose is a minute of your recording, which I find to be adequate for my needs, especially with redundancy in powering. With redundant power sources, I'm far less likely to ever have to worry about a complete loss of power while recording. For example, I'm powering my F8 from the rear 12V connector from an external battery, with the AA battery sled acting as my backup power supply.
Incidentally, I've also confirmed that there's complete transparent changeover when the unit switches between external power and the battery sled. No clicks or interruptions in the recording of any kind.
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Still $999 on B & H and Sweetwater!
On a different note, anyone notice the price increase for the F8 now that the pre-order is over. WOW!
In the Netherlands it has actually come down from 1462 euros to 1099 euros. Available 3 weeks from now.
Regards, Christine
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On a different note, anyone notice the price increase for the F8 now that the pre-order is over. WOW!
All the prices look the same to me....I thought it was always 999?
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Quick search around all the major US dealers and everything I saw was still $999. The only price I saw that was different was an Aussie price up around 1600 Aussie dollars.
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My mistake, as I saw the price and was shocked without reading the small print noting the it was a package deal with 2 sd cards, a zoom F8 case, the zoom mic package.......
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According to Justin at Pro Sound, Zoom is having manufacturing delays (I guess because they sold out of these bad boys quickly) and 3rd week of November is their target to get more.
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Yep, I heard the same thing as AJ from my vendor. I'm wondering if there isn't some updates causing the delay?
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Hardware: you push stop at the same time as one of the pfl buttons to disable all the level knobs, push 'em again to re-enable.
I could definitely see myself not quite pressing them at the same time and stopping my recording. :facepalm:
Seriously, I would be terrified of using that!
According to this post on JWSound (http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/25217-zoom-f8/&page=6#comment-304177), you cannot lock the gain pots while in record mode, and thus have no worry about accidentally stopping your recording.
I'll double check this and report back. The pfl buttons have a very definite click to them so i think that might be the key to not screwing this up.
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Hardware: you push stop at the same time as one of the pfl buttons to disable all the level knobs, push 'em again to re-enable.
I could definitely see myself not quite pressing them at the same time and stopping my recording. :facepalm:
Seriously, I would be terrified of using that!
According to this post on JWSound (http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/25217-zoom-f8/&page=6#comment-304177), you cannot lock the gain pots while in record mode, and thus have no worry about accidentally stopping your recording.
I'll double check this and report back. The pfl buttons have a very definite click to them so i think that might be the key to not screwing this up.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=172643.msg2163152#msg2163152
Yes, confirmed in the above post. So, on the one hand it's good that you can't accidentally stop the recording once you hit record, but on the other hand that level hold is the only hold function on the entire machine. Since the level knobs are probably the only thing that would be accidentally moved during recording, I suppose that's not all that big a deal but I'd definitely like to see a more comprehensive hold function added in a firmware update.
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Hardware: you push stop at the same time as one of the pfl buttons to disable all the level knobs, push 'em again to re-enable.
I could definitely see myself not quite pressing them at the same time and stopping my recording. :facepalm:
Seriously, I would be terrified of using that!
According to this post on JWSound (http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/25217-zoom-f8/&page=6#comment-304177), you cannot lock the gain pots while in record mode, and thus have no worry about accidentally stopping your recording.
I'll double check this and report back. The pfl buttons have a very definite click to them so i think that might be the key to not screwing this up.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=172643.msg2163152#msg2163152
Yes, confirmed in the above post. So, on the one hand it's good that you can't accidentally stop the recording once you hit record, but on the other hand that level hold is the only hold function on the entire machine. Since the level knobs are probably the only thing that would be accidentally moved during recording, I suppose that's not all that big a deal but I'd definitely like to see a more comprehensive hold function added in a firmware update.
Whoops - missed that one.
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Went to archive and searched for "Zoom F8" recordings. Almost all 58 are steve toney's - mostly schoeps...want to hear this deck with other mics. Way to go steve that is a lot of recordings for 2 months of owning that deck. Maybe have this wrong seemed like quite a few TS members bought the Zoom though not much on the IA yet.
http://archive.org/search.php?query=%22zoom%20f8%22%20AND%20collection%3Aetree
Anyone else record and have listing on IA besides schopes mics?
(Did listen to the classical piano with the Josephson mics that sounded very nice.)
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Went to archive and searched for "Zoom F8" recordings. Almost all 58 are steve toney's - mostly schoeps...want to hear this deck with other mics. Way to go steve that is a lot of recordings for 2 months of owning that deck. Maybe have this wrong seemed like quite a few TS members bought the Zoom though not much on the IA yet.
Thanks. Two festivals and about five or six times out 'clubbing' with it. I think I'm aware of four people on ts.com that have one so that's probably why you're not seeing much activity with it yet.
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TD, I've been looking through your review, and may I be the first to say:
:clapping:
Very comprehensive, clearly written, and nicely supplemented with photos. Really top notch work!
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TD, I've been looking through your review, and may I be the first to say:
:clapping:
Very comprehensive, clearly written, and nicely supplemented with photos. Really top notch work!
Thanks man. It was fun to do...though I started and stopped a few times. Once I got some momentum going and got over the hump of getting all the screen shots of the menus sorted through, the rest fell in place because I'd had enough time vested into it that I didn't want to let what I'd already done go to waste. ;)
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I'm really tempted to order one of these units...
Still waiting for more real world experience from others.
how's the external hirose> battery experience ? is any one sure of pin assignments?
Do the pre's match up to what ever flavor you are used to?
I know I don't really need one of these, but it would be a nice compact way to ad extra channels if I wanted to I do run a lot of 2 track and sometimes 4 but also have to options of adding more sometimes. this thing would be much easier to haul around then my DR-680. or the HD-P2 + SD USB-Pre2 or my DR-60
I like the pre's in the USB-Pre2 a d the fact I can go out digitally (Spdif) to the P2 which I got because the DR-680 is funky to use with Spdif in.
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^ If you take Steve's word for it (and his is as good as any) the Zoom F8 compares favorably to the 744T, which is the same pre as the USBPre2 (I also like its sound a lot).
Placed my order today with Pro Sound. I could not justify the SX-R4+ for more than 5X the price when this has really all the features I need....
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I'm really tempted to order one of these units...
Still waiting for more real world experience from others.
how's the external hirose> battery experience ? is any one sure of pin assignments?
I have been using the Hirose 4 pin connection. Works like a charm and have yet to drain any Ni batteries. Doing past video work and having plenty of the Ni batteries, I had invested in a Cable Techniques Battery Bud II, of which I run the Hirose power to the F8, SD552 & SD MixPre-D at the same time, all in the Petrol bag. A lot of stuff to say the least but it covers most situations I run into during a recording, leaving options to run thru the 552 as a Pre, direct to the F8 or the MixPre-D in MS mode, of which I have been running as a completely separate recording source using the AES3 out to the S/PDIF of the Marantz PMD661.
If you happen to have the old vid cam Ni batteries, then the Hirose power is a natural progression without having to re-invest in a new power source.
The recordings I am doing for the most part, are for bands and musicians of which I have been asked not to post. The recorder is definitely getting use, and has been real easy to operate....absolutely no complaints! Maybe one...I wish I had more shows I could record in the past month that I could share here!!!
[EDIT ADD]: I wanted to note and add that I have not run the Hirose connector for longer that 2.5 hr runs, so I can not really boast of the "total" battery time. I will do a test on that this eve. for the results while running the MixPre-D, SD552 and the F8 all off of one NP-1 Style NiCd battery.
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^^^^ no Ni batteries I do have a couple of Naztech Powerbanks (15000 mAh Li-po) + other batts. would need a cable to the hirose connector or just go in the 12v dc in
It's so tempting....
I may order from Amazon... just because I have prime...
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Recording Dead and company tonight and tomorrow. Running an experiment by sending the input signal through the output on my SD722 to my F8 miniXLR->XLR 1-2 on the F8. I will post both shows both sources for a comparison.
Stupid mistake though, didn't have phantom power turned on for my nak 1k or 300s before the start of first set and couldn't turn them on during recording. So only two sets on mics on the first set and all four on the second set.
The iPhone app worked great first set, but disconnected somehow during the second and woulnt reconnect. Probably more to do with my jail token iPhone than anything. I would recommend and iPad mini for the app, better size and smaller than the full blown iPad.
More later.
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The iPhone app worked great first set, but disconnected somehow during the second and woulnt reconnect. Probably more to do with my jail token iPhone than anything. I would recommend and iPad mini for the app, better size and smaller than the full blown iPad.
There's a difference between shutting down the app completely on your phone and just minimizing it. If you shut it down, you can't reconnect without first stopping your recording and going through the reconnect sequence by first long pressing the menu button. If you just minimize it but keep the app active in background on your phone, when you call it back up you'll get a message that it's reconnecting and then after five seconds or so you'll be reconnected. My bet is that you shut the app down completely during the second set.
I agree with your comment about the ipad mini with the existing app design. I think there's a couple things they can do with the app to improve the design to make it more functional for use with the smaller iphone screen. For example, when you want move one of the sliders, perhaps you could press a button to enlarge it on your screen (or long press the slider and it automatically enlarges) to change the scale for fine adjustment, which is very difficult to do now with the scaling of the sliders on a tiny iphone screen.
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The iPhone app worked great first set, but disconnected somehow during the second and woulnt reconnect. Probably more to do with my jail token iPhone than anything. I would recommend and iPad mini for the app, better size and smaller than the full blown iPad.
There's a difference between shutting down the app completely on your phone and just minimizing it. If you shut it down, you can't reconnect without first stopping your recording and going through the reconnect sequence by first long pressing the menu button. If you just minimize it but keep the app active in background on your phone, when you call it back up you'll get a message that it's reconnecting and then after five seconds or so you'll be reconnected. My bet is that you shut the app down completely during the second set.
I agree with your comment about the ipad mini with the existing app design. I think there's a couple things they can do with the app to improve the design to make it more functional for use with the smaller iphone screen. For example, when you want move one of the sliders, perhaps you could press a button to enlarge it on your screen (or long press the slider and it automatically enlarges) to change the scale for fine adjustment, which is very difficult to do now with the scaling of the sliders on a tiny iphone screen.
I don't know how the app works (since I haven't used it yet) but a sound guy showed me the iPad app for his Behringer SBD the other night. He mentioned slider control, and showed how if you just held down your thumb on the slider and "rolled" your thumb forward, it would move more incrementally. No idea if the Zoom app has that function, just figure it's worth a try if you haven't...
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^ That could work. I do think technique could have a function in improving control. I'll give it a try and report back.
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Using the Hirose connection & running the MixPre-D, SD552 and the F8 all off of one NP-1 Style NiCd battery, I monitored the meter on the F8 noting the Ext. battery and I was able to run this for 6 hours before the meter dropped to red at a 12.0v to 11.9v reading. standard safety power shut-off on the F8 happens at 9v reading, so there was still some power before a complete shutdown.
(http://www.reddingaudio.com/images/cable-techniques/battery-bud-2-usb.png)
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Using the Hirose connection & running the MixPre-D, SD552 and the F8 all off of one NP-1 Style NiCd battery, I monitored the meter on the F8 noting the Ext. battery and I was able to run this for 6 hours before the meter dropped to red at a 12.0v to 11.9v reading. standard safety power shut-off on the F8 happens at 9v reading, so there was still some power before a complete shutdown.
(http://www.reddingaudio.com/images/cable-techniques/battery-bud-2-usb.png)
I've thought seriously about getting one of these to decrease the number of batteries I have to take to the show. The thing that kept me from taking the plunge was that I'd have to re-configure all of my cables with hirose connectors on one end. The other thing about it is that by spreading batteries across devices, I don't have to check on and change out the one battery as often since each battery will last alot longer since it's only powering one device instead of multiple devices. That would be handy to have as an option though for lightening the load.
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Below is the Philly Dead and company show I recorded with the Zoom F8. I will edit my SD 722 version soon for the comparison.
https://archive.org/details/DC2015-11-05.telefunken.ela.m.260.banaszewski.9624.flac
Dead and Company
Thursday November 5, 2015
Well's Fargo Center
Philadelphia, PA
Source: Telefunken ELA M 260 cardioid TK60> Sound Devices 722 (pass through)>Zoom F8
Recorded at 96kHz 24 bit
Notes:
Conducted an experiment by sending the signal heard by the 722 through to the Zoom F8 to compare the two recorders.
Recorded from the back left corner of the floor by the taper section. Thanks to J and P for coming with me to these shows!
Setlist:
Set I:
Here Comes Sunshine
Loose Lucy
Candyman
Half Step Mississippi Uptown Toodeloo>
Bird Song
Cumberland Blues
Casey Jones
Set II:
Iko Iko>
Feel Like a Stranger
China Cat Sunflower>
I Know You Rider
Drums>
Space>
Playin in the Band>
Standing on the Moon
Sugar Magnolia
Encore:
U.S. Blues
Taped and edited by Jeremy Banaszewski
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I figured out that you can turn the phantom power on through the app, gotta press the pfl buttons for the channel and you can adjust the limiters, hpf, etc from there.
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The iPhone app worked great first set, but disconnected somehow during the second and woulnt reconnect. Probably more to do with my jail token iPhone than anything. I would recommend and iPad mini for the app, better size and smaller than the full blown iPad.
There's a difference between shutting down the app completely on your phone and just minimizing it. If you shut it down, you can't reconnect without first stopping your recording and going through the reconnect sequence by first long pressing the menu button. If you just minimize it but keep the app active in background on your phone, when you call it back up you'll get a message that it's reconnecting and then after five seconds or so you'll be reconnected. My bet is that you shut the app down completely during the second set.
I agree with your comment about the ipad mini with the existing app design. I think there's a couple things they can do with the app to improve the design to make it more functional for use with the smaller iphone screen. For example, when you want move one of the sliders, perhaps you could press a button to enlarge it on your screen (or long press the slider and it automatically enlarges) to change the scale for fine adjustment, which is very difficult to do now with the scaling of the sliders on a tiny iphone screen.
I don't know how the app works (since I haven't used it yet) but a sound guy showed me the iPad app for his Behringer SBD the other night. He mentioned slider control, and showed how if you just held down your thumb on the slider and "rolled" your thumb forward, it would move more incrementally. No idea if the Zoom app has that function, just figure it's worth a try if you haven't...
Wow! Tested this out tonight and it's night and day! Just like your sound guy said, you just hold your thumb on the slider and that activates the slider. Then roll your thumb up or down to move the slider or knob, or alternatively just leave your thumb in place and just sorta rotate your iphone around your thumb. It really works great!!! The sliders and knobs both move up and down in 0.5db increments and using this technique I could easily set everything at the precise point without any problems whatsoever.
Thanks for this tip. It really makes for a huge improvement in control using the app! Yay...happy happy joy joy!
PS: Gonna make changes to the F8 review to note this 'discovery'.
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Below is the Philly Dead and company show I recorded with the Zoom F8. I will edit my SD 722 version soon for the comparison.
https://archive.org/details/DC2015-11-05.telefunken.ela.m.260.banaszewski.9624.flac
Dead and Company
Thursday November 5, 2015
Well's Fargo Center
Philadelphia, PA
Source: Telefunken ELA M 260 cardioid TK60> Sound Devices 722 (pass through)>Zoom F8
Recorded at 96kHz 24 bit
Notes:
Conducted an experiment by sending the signal heard by the 722 through to the Zoom F8 to compare the two recorders.
Recorded from the back left corner of the floor by the taper section. Thanks to J and P for coming with me to these shows!
So just to be clear, this is just going line into the F8, and not utilizing the Mic Preamps in the F8? So bassically the 722 and the F8 should sound nearly identical or the F8 should sound like the flavor of the 722?
I'd be curious in a comp of the mic Preamp flavorings. Unless you can get another set of the same ELA M 260's it would be difficult to do a side by side comp, while they would be different songs a set 1 and set 2 could suffice.
Maybe someone could to a similar comp with schoeps or neumans , the same mics in the same stereo pattern (array) NOS, DIN, ORTF whatever... on the same stand...
thanks
--Ian
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Below is the Philly Dead and company show I recorded with the Zoom F8. I will edit my SD 722 version soon for the comparison.
https://archive.org/details/DC2015-11-05.telefunken.ela.m.260.banaszewski.9624.flac
Dead and Company
Thursday November 5, 2015
Well's Fargo Center
Philadelphia, PA
Source: Telefunken ELA M 260 cardioid TK60> Sound Devices 722 (pass through)>Zoom F8
Recorded at 96kHz 24 bit
Notes:
Conducted an experiment by sending the signal heard by the 722 through to the Zoom F8 to compare the two recorders.
Recorded from the back left corner of the floor by the taper section. Thanks to J and P for coming with me to these shows!
So just to be clear, this is just going line into the F8, and not utilizing the Mic Preamps in the F8? So bassically the 722 and the F8 should sound nearly identical or the F8 should sound like the flavor of the 722?
I'd be curious in a comp of the mic Preamp flavorings. Unless you can get another set of the same ELA M 260's it would be difficult to do a side by side comp, while they would be different songs a set 1 and set 2 could suffice.
Maybe someone could to a similar comp with schoeps or neumans , the same mics in the same stereo pattern (array) NOS, DIN, ORTF whatever... on the same stand...
thanks
--Ian
Ian. If you go into section 2 of my F8 review, I've included some links to some F8 samples. One of the samples is a comp of schoeps mics through a Psp3 and then into the zoom F8. The other is the same setup recording the same music straight into the F8 without the psp3 in the chain. Since i have four m934b mics these were done simultaneously from the same Mic stand... One pair something like four inches above the other.
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Below is the Philly Dead and company show I recorded with the Zoom F8. I will edit my SD 722 version soon for the comparison.
https://archive.org/details/DC2015-11-05.telefunken.ela.m.260.banaszewski.9624.flac
Dead and Company
Thursday November 5, 2015
Well's Fargo Center
Philadelphia, PA
Source: Telefunken ELA M 260 cardioid TK60> Sound Devices 722 (pass through)>Zoom F8
Recorded at 96kHz 24 bit
Notes:
Conducted an experiment by sending the signal heard by the 722 through to the Zoom F8 to compare the two recorders.
Recorded from the back left corner of the floor by the taper section. Thanks to J and P for coming with me to these shows!
So just to be clear, this is just going line into the F8, and not utilizing the Mic Preamps in the F8? So bassically the 722 and the F8 should sound nearly identical or the F8 should sound like the flavor of the 722?
I'd be curious in a comp of the mic Preamp flavorings. Unless you can get another set of the same ELA M 260's it would be difficult to do a side by side comp, while they would be different songs a set 1 and set 2 could suffice.
Maybe someone could to a similar comp with schoeps or neumans , the same mics in the same stereo pattern (array) NOS, DIN, ORTF whatever... on the same stand...
thanks
--Ian
Ian. If you go into section 2 of my F8 review, I've included some links to some F8 samples. One of the samples is a comp of schoeps mics through a Psp3 and then into the zoom F8. The other is the same setup recording the same music straight into the F8 without the psp3 in the chain. Since i have four m934b mics these were done simultaneously from the same Mic stand... One pair something like four inches above the other.
I seem to have missed you link of your review, would love to check it out. Is it in this thread? I spent some tim looking but must have missed it. can you either PM me the link or better yet post it here?
Thank you in advance.
--Ian
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Below is the Philly Dead and company show I recorded with the Zoom F8. I will edit my SD 722 version soon for the comparison.
https://archive.org/details/DC2015-11-05.telefunken.ela.m.260.banaszewski.9624.flac
Dead and Company
Thursday November 5, 2015
Well's Fargo Center
Philadelphia, PA
Source: Telefunken ELA M 260 cardioid TK60> Sound Devices 722 (pass through)>Zoom F8
Recorded at 96kHz 24 bit
Notes:
Conducted an experiment by sending the signal heard by the 722 through to the Zoom F8 to compare the two recorders.
Recorded from the back left corner of the floor by the taper section. Thanks to J and P for coming with me to these shows!
So just to be clear, this is just going line into the F8, and not utilizing the Mic Preamps in the F8? So bassically the 722 and the F8 should sound nearly identical or the F8 should sound like the flavor of the 722?
I'd be curious in a comp of the mic Preamp flavorings. Unless you can get another set of the same ELA M 260's it would be difficult to do a side by side comp, while they would be different songs a set 1 and set 2 could suffice.
Maybe someone could to a similar comp with schoeps or neumans , the same mics in the same stereo pattern (array) NOS, DIN, ORTF whatever... on the same stand...
thanks
--Ian
Ian. If you go into section 2 of my F8 review, I've included some links to some F8 samples. One of the samples is a comp of schoeps mics through a Psp3 and then into the zoom F8. The other is the same setup recording the same music straight into the F8 without the psp3 in the chain. Since i have four m934b mics these were done simultaneously from the same Mic stand... One pair something like four inches above the other.
I seem to have missed you link of your review, would love to check it out. Is it in this thread? I spent some tim looking but must have missed it. can you either PM me the link or better yet post it here?
Thank you in advance.
--Ian
Look down three threads from this one. It's called 'Zoom F8 Review'. :cheers:
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Look down three threads from this one. It's called 'Zoom F8 Review'. :cheers:
D'Oh!
found it...
thanks it's an amazing overview/review!
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Below is the Philly Dead and company show I recorded with the Zoom F8. I will edit my SD 722 version soon for the comparison.
https://archive.org/details/DC2015-11-05.telefunken.ela.m.260.banaszewski.9624.flac
Dead and Company
Thursday November 5, 2015
Well's Fargo Center
Philadelphia, PA
Source: Telefunken ELA M 260 cardioid TK60> Sound Devices 722 (pass through)>Zoom F8
Recorded at 96kHz 24 bit
Notes:
Conducted an experiment by sending the signal heard by the 722 through to the Zoom F8 to compare the two recorders.
Recorded from the back left corner of the floor by the taper section. Thanks to J and P for coming with me to these shows!
So just to be clear, this is just going line into the F8, and not utilizing the Mic Preamps in the F8? So bassically the 722 and the F8 should sound nearly identical or the F8 should sound like the flavor of the 722?
I'd be curious in a comp of the mic Preamp flavorings. Unless you can get another set of the same ELA M 260's it would be difficult to do a side by side comp, while they would be different songs a set 1 and set 2 could suffice.
Maybe someone could to a similar comp with schoeps or neumans , the same mics in the same stereo pattern (array) NOS, DIN, ORTF whatever... on the same stand...
thanks
--Ian
The F8 came with miniXLR to regular XLR cables. I went from the main outs on the SD722 to chanells 1 and 2 on the Zoom F8.
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Fwiw - you can run splitters directly after your mics and into your preamps w/o issues - this will give you a true pre-amp and AD comparison
Just make sure only one pre-amp is providing phantom power (if you are running phantom powered mics - which the m260's are not)
For the 260's run the splitters after the ps
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I figured out that you can turn the phantom power on through the app, gotta press the pfl buttons for the channel and you can adjust the limiters, hpf, etc from there.
^ listened to your recording today, really like the mic's :cheers!
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Fwiw - you can run splitters directly after your mics and into your preamps w/o issues - this will give you a true pre-amp and AD comparison
Just make sure only one pre-amp is providing phantom power (if you are running phantom powered mics - which the m260's are not)
For the 260's run the splitters after the ps
How much harder are they to make than normal XLRs. I have made some 15 ft right angled for my various mics, but haven't tried splitters yet. I do have varying assortments of cables left.
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I figured out that you can turn the phantom power on through the app, gotta press the pfl buttons for the channel and you can adjust the limiters, hpf, etc from there.
^ listened to your recording today, really like the mic's :cheers!
Thanks!
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It's trivial to make splitter cables - just make a 6" set - 1F XLR-3 ---> 2xM XLR-3 - you just use two cables into the female and one into each male
I saw a F8 today at CCW in NYC and it is very small - smaller then a 7xx series for sure - there was a 702 in the display case besides the F8
Other then the lack of Digital inputs and the fact you have to use 1/4" jacks for line inputs the unit looks like a real winner - both these draw backs aren't deal breakers though
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Just pre-ordered an F8. If it works out, the unit will replace my Zoom H6. I've used it as a six-input recording device for more than two years. Primary use is recording my band on location.
This is what I've achieved with the H6. If the F8 preamps are as good as some have said here, and with eight inputs, I'll be a happy camper!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMCqGyBT7Ew
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Sitting here in Disney directly behind the board DFC waiting for the Beauty & the Beast show I received shipping notice that my F8 has finally shipped, sweet!
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Just received mine and running tomorrow night. Will report back. Initial report: Wow, it is really small, and really easy to use...
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Initial impressions (much less detailed than Steve's, but hey):
Unit is small, light, and well-built. The screen is super-bright and easy to read. Everything on the unit generally works in a logical and simple way. Buttons have a stable and confidence-building feel. It's noticeably smaller and lighter than SD units, and about the same size as an R-44, though it feels much more rugged.
Bluetooth was the key selling point for me, and the controls did not disappoint. I set levels using it on an iPhone 6S and had no issues; you can also dial in levels more by using the 'PFL' menu and putting in the exact number of dB of amplification the channel should have. Ditto on the unit itself -- you can adjust levels with the knobs, but you an also enter the PFL menu and put it in more exactly, or do it on the main screen.
Steve is certainly correct that the level knobs are small. It felt more difficult to manually tweak than with an R-44, for example, because small movements can cause big changes and there aren't the "click" wheels that adjust the input sensitivity, which is just set at Mic for XLR connections and line for TRS (I bought some TRS extension cables Steve recommended so that my SBD feeds are line level.
It's also handy to be able to engage the limiter and actually know what it is doing. You can set the threshold at which it kicks in, which I had at the default -2dB and "soft knee." It kicked in a few times for me, because the set I was recording was a close-miked situation in a restaurant that isn't really set up for a full band rock show.
Everyone seems to have bitched about the headphone output. For me, I don't really care, as I just use the headphones to occasionally tell if something is in fact recording, not to have a great listening experience. But it is noisy. The preamps are not.
First recording is mixed down; I'll put up a link here when it's posted. Oh, and mine was non-Schoeps, so those wanting to hear other mics can get that chance... :)
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Initial impressions (much less detailed than Steve's, but hey):
Unit is small, light, and well-built. The screen is super-bright and easy to read.
There is a setting in the menu of which I had tested on a bright sunny morning during test recording for an engine Sound Effect. You can switch the visual screen for indoor and outdoor applications, of which this came in hand and worked like a charm...no need to place my hand over the screen to see the levels. Just thought I would add, in case it had not been noted?
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Just got an email from b&h saying theses were in stock in case anyone is thinking of ordering one
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I finally have mine as well. Initial impressions are that I finally have a deck with excellent metering, wow, it's perfect IMO. I was also surprised by the size, even though I saw pics & watched the videos until it was in my hands I didn't think it would be this small. Overall I'm very impressed. I'm running it tomorrow night for JRAD with the tubes, C34 & maybe the HO's, I'm running without external preamps so I can get a feel for the deck & internal preamps.
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I might have missed it in this thread but here are size comparison pics vs the DR-680.
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you just cant get an idea how small it is til you see that. wow! thanks for sharing
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Heads up for anyone looking for a large card or two for their F8.
Even though I'm not a Black Friday shopper, I went out to the grocery store this morning and since Best Buy is on the way, I decided to be brave and step inside to see if they had a decent sale on SD card media. Sure enough they had some Sandisk 128gb cards on sale, which is what I was looking for.
I picked up a Sandisk Ultra Plus micro SDXC UHS-1 card with adapter, 128gb with speed up to 80MB/s 533x for $39.99.
Just formatted it and ran it through the F8 performance test and it checked out OK. Yay!
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^ nice. Just plugged in a 128GB SanDisk myself.
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ive been messing with a bag over full of gear in attempt to do 4ch occasionally. i think ive had enough.
i rarely do more than 2ch, but i see some interesting chances to do 4+ch in the near future.
i think its time for me to take the plunge and order an f8!
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I ran the Zoom Saturday night for JRAD. I decided to not use my external preamp so I could get an idea of how it sounds & I must say that I'm impressed. The internal preamp's are very clean, great detail, not overly bright or sterile. I could see running without an external preamp when I'm looking to save some weight.
For those who want to hear it here's a link for MP3's. I did a little eq clean up, rolled the bass a touch, bumped up the mids a touch but overall it's still a great representation of the internal preamps.
https://drive.google.com/folder/d/0B_AEIvcg2ktXNWZEclBGLTVISHM/edit
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Here's my first recording with the F8. "Onstage" AT 4051s plus a board feed. Don't hold some of the vocal distortion against the deck -- the engineer had them overloading at a few points. I thought the sound of the pres was nice and clean and quiet. This is a pretty low-key setting -- band center floor inside a restaurant with their amps and gear providing pretty much all sound except for the vocals and some electronics through the PA.
http://www.nyctaper.com/2015/12/invisible-familiars-november-23-2015-manhattan-inn/
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Here's my first recording with the F8. "Onstage" AT 4051s plus a board feed. Don't hold some of the vocal distortion against the deck -- the engineer had them overloading at a few points. I thought the sound of the pres was nice and clean and quiet. This is a pretty low-key setting -- band center floor inside a restaurant with their amps and gear providing pretty much all sound except for the vocals and some electronics through the PA.
http://www.nyctaper.com/2015/12/invisible-familiars-november-23-2015-manhattan-inn/
:headphones: :headphones: :coolguy: :coolguy: two thumbs up!
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Are these in stock any where?? Looks like it is preorder at B&H.
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Are these in stock any where?? Looks like it is preorder at B&H.
A few days ago they were in stock at Amazon, but they have been sold. Also I think Markertek had some in stock but also my be back to preorder.
I think I am waiting until after the new years for some extra ca$h and they I'll jump on it, and may sell my USB-Pre2...
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From comments here and in the Yard Sale, it looks like a number of us plan/want to pick up an F8 and will be unloading current gear to do so. I foresee a load of 680s and DR70s hitting the market in the near future. I think the trajectory is being managed by the low availability of F8s, otherwise the rush would really be on. ;D
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More thoughts from tonight. Ran onstage for Superchunk, a somewhat loud but not extremely loud band, AT 4051 directly into the F8. Bluetooth used the entire time for levels, etc.
First of all, if you're recording anything really loud, TRS interconnects are a must. Why Zoom thought XLR should be at "Mic" level automatically is a total mystery to me, but it is way too hot. I had the knobs all the way down and still the limiter (very good, customizable) was kicking in. The good news is that limiter actually works, and my recording is still dynamic and good.
Second, weirdly this time the Bluetooth just stopped working after 1:20. Yesterday I used it all night with no issue, but this time I got the error that says the deck is not found. No amount of switching to/from the app could make it come back. As tonedeaf has said, if you CLOSE the app (versus just switch to something else) then it won't work anymore, but I hadn't done that.
Another "Mr Obvious" discovery I made -- I plugged in with my Tekkeon, but the deck kept saying it was just on AAs. I realized it was one of the Tekkeon models where you have to manually set the voltage. I had it set at 9V, whereas the deck was set to 12V. Once I set the battery to 12V, everything worked fine.
The bluetooth app is really quite good. I recommend setting levels, if you can (it's harder if you need to do it fast) by going to the "PFL" menu and setting the exact number of dB you want for each channel. Much more precise and less error-prone than trying to move the virtual "knobs" on the screen. Another thing I haven't yet quite checked, it seems that the virtual "knobs" on the iPhone screen are not corresponded to physical movement of the knobs on the deck. So, as long as you're on BT, you're changing the "virtual knobs" but not the physical ones. I don't know what happens if you change the physical ones while still in BT mode, but I would guess they would just start from whatever's on the iPhone as a baseline and then reduce/increase from there. Any insight into that?
Overall I continue to be very pleased with this deck. And loving the 128GB card I bought, too.
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The physical gain knobs will override the virtual ones.
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From comments here and in the Yard Sale, it looks like a number of us plan/want to pick up an F8 and will be unloading current gear to do so. I foresee a load of 680s and DR70s hitting the market in the near future. I think the trajectory is being managed by the low availability of F8s, otherwise the rush would really be on. ;D
Sounds about right - I think I'd like to have one of these. But I'll wait until they have an Android version of the control app and Zoom goes through their first firmware update or two.
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From comments here and in the Yard Sale, it looks like a number of us plan/want to pick up an F8 and will be unloading current gear to do so. I foresee a load of 680s and DR70s hitting the market in the near future. I think the trajectory is being managed by the low availability of F8s, otherwise the rush would really be on. ;D
Sounds about right - I think I'd like to have one of these. But I'll wait until they have an Android version of the control app and Zoom goes through their first firmware update or two.
Yeah, I am not an early adopter either. While the initial reviews here and elsewhere have been really encouraging, they were for the DR70 as well. Not that I am paranoid or anything. I do at least have an iPhone and iPad mini to work with.
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I record nature and it tends to be really quiet where I am. At the moment I use Sound Devices MixPre as a preamp and record on Korg MR1000. I was wondering if anyone has both Zoom F8 and MixPre and could make a comparison to the preamps so that the gain is set to maximum on both units?
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The physical gain knobs will override the virtual ones.
OK, but let's say I have the physical ones all the way down, and the virtual ones at, say, +20. If I take the physical knob and move it up by +10, does the gain become +30, or +10?
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From comments here and in the Yard Sale, it looks like a number of us plan/want to pick up an F8 and will be unloading current gear to do so. I foresee a load of 680s and DR70s hitting the market in the near future. I think the trajectory is being managed by the low availability of F8s, otherwise the rush would really be on. ;D
Sounds about right - I think I'd like to have one of these. But I'll wait until they have an Android version of the control app and Zoom goes through their first firmware update or two.
Yeah, I am not an early adopter either. While the initial reviews here and elsewhere have been really encouraging, they were for the DR70 as well. Not that I am paranoid or anything. I do at least have an iPhone and iPad mini to work with.
I am with you there -- and normally with a Zoom product I would run and not walk. Steve's in-depth review counted for a lot with me, especially because he's actually out there taping a lot and getting a lot of volume in a short time. The other reviews have been encouraging as well -- basically the negative from actual pros have to do with stuff we don't really care about, like the onboard mixer and timecode.
For me it really came down to that I'd already sold my other main deck in anticipation of buying the SX-R4+. Looking at the relative feature sets, having "SONOSAX" written on the deck was not worth an additional $4500 to me, especially when one can always buy a nice outboard pre for much less than that. Honestly, for most of what I do, which usually has SBD as part of it, I don't even see much need for the outboard pre.
Which is a long way of saying, if I still had an SD744 or an R-44 or whatever, I wouldn't necessarily be in a hurry to dump it unless I really wanted 8 channels or Bluetooth control. For me, the BT control, at this price, was alone worth it.
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If you're out taping all the time and actually use these features, then your cost per use is much less than someone who doesn't tape as much or doesn't need these features.
I think someday we will see a wireless stage box/recorder and the actual recording controls will be on a tablet/phone, whatever, from the audience. The F8 is a precursor to that. Wireless mixers like the Behringer XR18 are headed that way except the XR18 requires a PC for multitrack recording. But I think the two kinds of product lines will converge in the future.
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I think someday we will see a wireless stage box/recorder and the actual recording controls will be on a tablet/phone, whatever, from the audience. The F8 is a precursor to that. Wireless mixers like the Behringer XR18 are headed that way except the XR18 requires a PC for multitrack recording. But I think the two kinds of product lines will converge in the future.
There is also the QSC TouchMix Serieshttp://www.qsc.com/live-sound/products/touchmix-mixers/ (http://www.qsc.com/live-sound/products/touchmix-mixers/) Multi-track direct to disk recording/playback via external USB hard drive (not included.) No computer required.
not a stage box, and also needs AC power it's an option I've thought of for sometime. the behringer is great but as mentioned it needs a pc for multitrack otherwise only has a 2 track out.
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If you're out taping all the time and actually use these features, then your cost per use is much less than someone who doesn't tape as much or doesn't need these features.
I think someday we will see a wireless stage box/recorder and the actual recording controls will be on a tablet/phone, whatever, from the audience. The F8 is a precursor to that. Wireless mixers like the Behringer XR18 are headed that way except the XR18 requires a PC for multitrack recording. But I think the two kinds of product lines will converge in the future.
Yeah, for sure. The engineer at a club I frequent has already started just doing the mixing with his Beringer on an iPad, which allows him to mix from the sweet spot rather than the not-so-sweet board location.
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8 channels, nice form factor to run in a bag, timecode, $1000. All important for me. I want to experiment with timecode and cut down on separate devices when I'm doing audio and video at the same time.
Big question is whether to let the R-44 and USBPre2 go. It's a matter of $$ and almost daily I waffle and with no quick takers and so many other recorders up for sale good chance my impulsive F8 lust will pass and I can lock the sale for now.
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The physical gain knobs will override the virtual ones.
OK, but let's say I have the physical ones all the way down, and the virtual ones at, say, +20. If I take the physical knob and move it up by +10, does the gain become +30, or +10?
I'm pretty sure that the answer is +10 because you have to turn bluetooth off before you can restore the app. Once the app restores, I'm pretty sure it will sense the actual settings of the level knobs. It wouldn't make sense that it would revert back to the previous virtual setting since you have to shut the app down in order to restore it.
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From comments here and in the Yard Sale, it looks like a number of us plan/want to pick up an F8 and will be unloading current gear to do so. I foresee a load of 680s and DR70s hitting the market in the near future. I think the trajectory is being managed by the low availability of F8s, otherwise the rush would really be on. ;D
Sounds about right - I think I'd like to have one of these. But I'll wait until they have an Android version of the control app and Zoom goes through their first firmware update or two.
Yeah, I am not an early adopter either. While the initial reviews here and elsewhere have been really encouraging, they were for the DR70 as well. Not that I am paranoid or anything. I do at least have an iPhone and iPad mini to work with.
What products/brands besides Tascam have had problems with beta testing and/or taking products to market with issues?
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From comments here and in the Yard Sale, it looks like a number of us plan/want to pick up an F8 and will be unloading current gear to do so. I foresee a load of 680s and DR70s hitting the market in the near future. I think the trajectory is being managed by the low availability of F8s, otherwise the rush would really be on. ;D
Sounds about right - I think I'd like to have one of these. But I'll wait until they have an Android version of the control app and Zoom goes through their first firmware update or two.
Yeah, I am not an early adopter either. While the initial reviews here and elsewhere have been really encouraging, they were for the DR70 as well. Not that I am paranoid or anything. I do at least have an iPhone and iPad mini to work with.
What products/brands besides Tascam have had problems with beta testing and/or taking products to market with issues?
The m-audio microtrack had eleven firmware updates before it woked as advertised. There is no excuse.
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The physical gain knobs will override the virtual ones.
OK, but let's say I have the physical ones all the way down, and the virtual ones at, say, +20. If I take the physical knob and move it up by +10, does the gain become +30, or +10?
+10
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From comments here and in the Yard Sale, it looks like a number of us plan/want to pick up an F8 and will be unloading current gear to do so. I foresee a load of 680s and DR70s hitting the market in the near future. I think the trajectory is being managed by the low availability of F8s, otherwise the rush would really be on. ;D
Sounds about right - I think I'd like to have one of these. But I'll wait until they have an Android version of the control app and Zoom goes through their first firmware update or two.
Yeah, I am not an early adopter either. While the initial reviews here and elsewhere have been really encouraging, they were for the DR70 as well. Not that I am paranoid or anything. I do at least have an iPhone and iPad mini to work with.
What products/brands besides Tascam have had problems with beta testing and/or taking products to market with issues?
The m-audio microtrack had eleven firmware updates before it woked as advertised. There is no excuse.
No excuse for what? The Tascam? Agreed but take that to the Tascam thread. You seem to insinuate that Zoom is having these problems when it doesn't. The Zoom works exactly as advertised, I see no reason to lump it in the same category as others.
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I don't think anyone is slamming the Zoom. Some of us are just cautious about buying the first iteration of anything. For example, I would never buy a car in its first model year. There may or may not be issues, but I am not inclined to be the Guinea Pig. Right now, the Zoom is looking pretty good. I will probably pick one up when they get back in stock. I admire you brave souls who are willing to jump right in when a new device is brought to market.
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I don't think anyone is slamming the Zoom. Some of us are just cautious about buying the first iteration of anything. For example, I would never buy a car in its first model year. There may or may not be issues, but I am not inclined to be the Guinea Pig. Right now, the Zoom is looking pretty good. I will probably pick one up when they get back in stock. I admire you brave souls who are willing to jump right in when a new device is brought to market.
I think there's also the matter that previous Zoom products such as the H2 and the H4N are well-known garbage. Unreliable, cheap sounding, etc -- not so different than a Tascam. Now, Zoom was always pretty clear that they were aimed at an amateur market in those cases, and marketed accordingly, so you can also assume some of the issues with how bad Zoom stuff sounded was attributable to user error. That said, an H4N should be qualitatively no different than a Roland R-26, yet I've heard many good recordings with the latter, none with the former.
Here, Zoom has aimed at a higher segment of the market, and seems to have done so in a way that didn't compromise on quality. But I do think their past reputation is relevant to the analysis of this product. Having now used it for the fourth time, I'd say I'm a skeptic who is rapidly being won over.
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From comments here and in the Yard Sale, it looks like a number of us plan/want to pick up an F8 and will be unloading current gear to do so. I foresee a load of 680s and DR70s hitting the market in the near future. I think the trajectory is being managed by the low availability of F8s, otherwise the rush would really be on. ;D
Sounds about right - I think I'd like to have one of these. But I'll wait until they have an Android version of the control app and Zoom goes through their first firmware update or two.
Yeah, I am not an early adopter either. While the initial reviews here and elsewhere have been really encouraging, they were for the DR70 as well. Not that I am paranoid or anything. I do at least have an iPhone and iPad mini to work with.
What products/brands besides Tascam have had problems with beta testing and/or taking products to market with issues?
The m-audio microtrack had eleven firmware updates before it woked as advertised. There is no excuse.
No excuse for what? The Tascam? Agreed but take that to the Tascam thread. You seem to insinuate that Zoom is having these problems when it doesn't. The Zoom works exactly as advertised, I see no reason to lump it in the same category as others.
Quite the contrary. I was one of the first people here to have the Zoom and I love it. I consider it the most recent iteneration of the holy grail and most certainly the best bang for the buck. I was commenting on the question that was asked about what other brands besides Tascam come to market before they are ready and my example is as good as any. I stand by my comment that there is no excuse for any product to be released that is not as advertised.
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You could buy this and chump it down and run it as a stereo box but you would be missing the true brilliance of this unit... Super Matrixs I don't record big... local bands... regional touring bands... If I can't get the matrix.. i don't record. So along with my stage mics and mono FoH maybe... the lead singers vocals... oh and the lead Guitar... a drum over head... the Bass... All I know is that after 20 shows it works for me... It has never malfunctioned... Although it all happens in post, The mix is plenty good. Here's what i heard
https://soundcloud.com/bdasilva/danielle-nicole-band-whole-lotta-love
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From comments here and in the Yard Sale, it looks like a number of us plan/want to pick up an F8 and will be unloading current gear to do so. I foresee a load of 680s and DR70s hitting the market in the near future. I think the trajectory is being managed by the low availability of F8s, otherwise the rush would really be on. ;D
Sounds about right - I think I'd like to have one of these. But I'll wait until they have an Android version of the control app and Zoom goes through their first firmware update or two.
Yeah, I am not an early adopter either. While the initial reviews here and elsewhere have been really encouraging, they were for the DR70 as well. Not that I am paranoid or anything. I do at least have an iPhone and iPad mini to work with.
What products/brands besides Tascam have had problems with beta testing and/or taking products to market with issues?
The m-audio microtrack had eleven firmware updates before it woked as advertised. There is no excuse.
No excuse for what? The Tascam? Agreed but take that to the Tascam thread. You seem to insinuate that Zoom is having these problems when it doesn't. The Zoom works exactly as advertised, I see no reason to lump it in the same category as others.
Quite the contrary. I was one of the first people here to have the Zoom and I love it. I consider it the most recent iteneration of the holy grail and most certainly the best bang for the buck. I was commenting on the question that was asked about what other brands besides Tascam come to market before they are ready and my example is as good as any. I stand by my comment that there is no excuse for any product to be released that is not as advertised.
I had an MT2496 and it was eh alright...worked the way it was supposed to but its design was limiting. Then I had an MTII and it never worked right, even after the firmware updates. Thankfully, they don't make recorders anymore. My theory is that M-Audio was subcontracting their recorder design and manufacture out to Tascam at the time. LOL.
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Latest F8 recording.. Onstage 4051s + SBD, monitored entire time via Bluetooth.
http://www.nyctaper.com/2015/12/superchunk-december-3-2015-babys-all-right/
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Tonedeaf - we're pushing 30 pages here. Time to lock this and make a Part 2?
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Just purchased one. Now have to wait for Amazon to get one in stock.
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Tonedeaf - we're pushing 30 pages here. Time to lock this and make a Part 2?
This one's not my thread.
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[/quote]
I think there's also the matter that previous Zoom products such as the H2 and the H4N are well-known garbage. Unreliable, cheap sounding, etc -- not so different than a Tascam. Now, Zoom was always pretty clear that they were aimed at an amateur market in those cases, and marketed accordingly, so you can also assume some of the issues with how bad Zoom stuff sounded was attributable to user error. That said, an H4N should be qualitatively no different than a Roland R-26, yet I've heard many good recordings with the latter, none with the former.
[/quote]
The H2 and H4N are certainly not garbage, the H4N is still used by pro's and I have an H2 that produces great quality recordings, and still works as well as it did when new.
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Tonedeaf - we're pushing 30 pages here. Time to lock this and make a Part 2?
This one's not my thread.
My mistake, I just made that assumption based on your being the most active poster on the F8. I didn't even bother to look at who started the thread. :facepalm:
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The physical gain knobs will override the virtual ones.
OK, but let's say I have the physical ones all the way down, and the virtual ones at, say, +20. If I take the physical knob and move it up by +10, does the gain become +30, or +10?
Hello,
The gain would move to +10dB. Whichever knob (virtual or physical) is touched last will override the previous.
Thank you
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The physical gain knobs will override the virtual ones.
OK, but let's say I have the physical ones all the way down, and the virtual ones at, say, +20. If I take the physical knob and move it up by +10, does the gain become +30, or +10?
Hello,
The gain would move to +10dB. Whichever knob (virtual or physical) is touched last will override the previous.
Thank you
Thank you! And welcome to the forum!
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The gain would move to +10dB. Whichever knob (virtual or physical) is touched last will override the previous.
Welcome zoomofficial to taperssection!
Regarding your response...nice! I would have thought that the physical knob would override simply because it's, well, a physical knob. I definitely like and prefer that the last knob touched takes precedence.
Your response also suggests that additional channel controls might be able to be made in the virtual realm. Hopefully, you've seen my detailed review of the unit elsewhere in the 'Recording Gear' forum of taperssection. The last section of my review includes some feedback on issues I've found so far and also includes some suggested firmware updates, one of which is channel ganging for concurrent level adjustment. Zoom would make lots of people happy if this feature was able to be added in a future firmware update. :)
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The gain would move to +10dB. Whichever knob (virtual or physical) is touched last will override the previous.
Welcome zoomofficial to taperssection!
Regarding your response...nice! I would have thought that the physical knob would override simply because it's, well, a physical knob. I definitely like and prefer that the last knob touched takes precedence.
Your response also suggests that additional channel controls might be able to be made in the virtual realm. Hopefully, you've seen my detailed review of the unit elsewhere in the 'Recording Gear' forum of taperssection. The last section of my review includes some feedback on issues I've found so far and also includes some suggested firmware updates, one of which is channel ganging for concurrent level adjustment. Zoom would make lots of people happy if this feature was able to be added in a future firmware update. :)
I second that. Also, we'd love the ability to select whether XLR or TRS resulted in mic or line-in, rather than having that determined for us....
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Welcome Zoomofficial! As mentioned before, a ganging feature that allows you to adjust the gain on channel pairs or multiple channel's via one knob would be much appreciated. Seems like something that could be done with firmware? The ability to select line in vs mic in with the use of XLR's would also be nice although I don't know if that would be more of a hardware issue vs something that could be revised with firmware? An Android Bluetooth app would also be a very welcome feature.....
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Hey now zoomofficial, welcome to taperssection.
:cheers:
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Welcome Zoomofficial! As mentioned before, a ganging feature that allows you to adjust the gain on channel pairs or multiple channel's via one knob would be much appreciated. Seems like something that could be done with firmware? The ability to select line in vs mic in with the use of XLR's would also be nice although I don't know if that would be more of a hardware issue vs something that could be revised with firmware? An Android Bluetooth app would also be a very welcome feature.....
Ditto the above. Channel ganging and an Android control app are two of the biggest things preventing me from buying one of these. Well, that and having just spent the cost of an F8 on new mics and related accessories... ::)
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Ditto the above. Channel ganging and an Android control app are two of the biggest things preventing me from buying one of these. Well, that and having just spent the cost of an F8 on new mics and related accessories... ::)
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Ha ha ;)... btw is that Mahler as your avatar?
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Ha ha ;)... btw is that Mahler as your avatar?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WhNn6zxqVg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WhNn6zxqVg)
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Ha ha ;)... btw is that Mahler as your avatar?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WhNn6zxqVg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WhNn6zxqVg)
Wow, great choral piece. Very powerful. I'm sort of a casual classical fan but very moving... I guess Mahler isn't a candidate for the "overrated list" ( ;) (Woody Allen reference)
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Since this thread is out to 30 pages I started a new one here
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175697.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175697.0)
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Suggestion, lock this one from additional posts.
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George2 hasn't been online for quite a while - maybe the mods can please lock this.
Last Active: November 08, 2015, 12:32:38 AM
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Hello All,
In the short period of time the new #ZoomF8 has been available, we have received some great feedback. Here’s a link to 14 improvements that we think you’ll like…a lot.
https://zoom-na.com/F8_Firmware-v2
Wishing all a happy holiday and healthy new year!
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Part 2: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175697.0