Topic: Question for 2-rig owners (stealth and open)

[sunjan]

If you get a custom made 3-wire battery box or preamp with mini-XLR inputs and a miniplug output, you can run your AT853s (sans the adapter/XLR part) into a smaller recorder like an R09 when you need stealthy, and keep the phantom adapters for when you want to run the FR2LE.  A PS-2 modified to have a miniplug output, or with an adapter cable, will work too if you also use the adapters.  That's the way I'd go if you want to keep the AT853s as your main mics, both open and stealth.

This may be a good option. I don't like the idea of hacking my mics if I don't need to, and I've had good results with the PS-2 in the past. 853rx>PS2>R09HR might be small enough if I decide the FR-2LE is too big of a project in certain environments.

Will_S is spot on here! For dual use, add a pair of mini-XLR connectors on the mic cables. That way, you can run 853>CA ST-9100 (custom order with mini-XLR in)>R09-HR. Smaller and more versatile than going the PS2 way.
If your phantom adapters are hardwired like mine (853rx), just put female mini-XLR on the chopped end of the cables.

[Javier Cinakowski]

nameloc is a very slow learner....

[nameloc01]

Yeah,that's me. You're right..running 3 wire mics 2 wire is the right way. I can't imagine anyone wanting to run 3 wire mics 3 wire...crazy bastards.

[Javier Cinakowski]

Yeah,that's me. You're right..running 3 wire mics 2 wire is the right way. I can't imagine anyone wanting to run 3 wire mics 3 wire...crazy bastards.

All issues are not black and white, this issue has quite a few shades of gray.

[nameloc01]

Yes,I know this. The basic point again is, it has come to the point whenever someone mentions AT mics, someone immediately chimes in with "gotta get'em modded or you'll have problems"

-which is kinda true..

I say "kinda" because if they were not being ran incorrectly to begin with there wouldn't be any problems to address by getting the mics modified.

Hence, the right way is 3 wire. Not 2.

I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm also not saying it isn't more convenient for some people. And its definitely cheaper.

I just wonder how many people have gotten their mics modified out of fear of clipping all the while not understanding if they were powered CORRECTLY it wouldn't be an issue to begin with...I can think of a few right of the start.

Which brings me back to that "battery box thread" instead of explaining to that guy he was running his mics wrong (thus giving him problems) he was told he needed to get his mics "modified" to prevent any future problems. Which is the truth, but not the entire truth. This is where I have a problem.

People can do whatever the hell they want, but they should be given all relative info before they are told what they need to do. Now, if I worked for Denecke, I would hope someone would call me out for doing the same thing, but I don't.

Example: Liquiddrum /Simon.. He says above he modded his 943s...now he may or may not realise that his particular mics may not of have even needed to get modded..but he wanted (I assume) to avoid clipping, so he "modded" them. So, its possible he paid for something he didn't even need. Apparently no one explained this to him. If he was running them 3 wire, it wouldn't even be an issue at all. And he wouldn't have to worry about needing a preamp to regain his lost gain.

So,that's my last comment on the subject. People can do what they want,the tapes will tell the tale.

[Javier Cinakowski]

So,that's my last comment on the subject.

you said that last year....

[nameloc01]

Yeah, well. Sue me for speaking the truth.

See...there I go again.bastard.

[Will_S]

Yes,I know this. The basic point again is, it has come to the point whenever someone mentions AT mics, someone immediately chimes in with "gotta get'em modded or you'll have problems"

Point out where anybody said that in this thread.

Example: Liquiddrum /Simon.. He says above he modded his 943s...now he may or may not realise that his particular mics may not of have even needed to get modded..but he wanted (I assume) to avoid clipping, so he "modded" them. So, its possible he paid for something hedidn't even need. Apparently no one explained this to him. If he was running them 3 wire, it wouldn't even be an issue at all. And he wouldn't have to worry about needing a preamp to regain his lost gain.

Acutally, as was pointed out to you multiple times in this very thread, the 4.7K mod gain "loss" is in comparison to 2-wire powering, not 3 wire.  So he would have "needed a preamp to regain his lost gain" running 3 wire power as well.  Sorry, Javier is right, you are a slow learner.

edits to bold relevant statement

[dmonkey]

 

[nameloc01]

Talk about a slow learner..

The simple point is again..
 
The problems of clipping arise when the mics are ran incorrectly...

That's why people are getting the "mod"

Run them correctly and you won't have to worry about clipping,mods, or any of the other bullshit.

How much more fucking simple can it be?

The point with L.D was if he was running them the way they were designed from the start, he wouldn't have to worry about getting them modded or the clipping. And that he may not have needed it at all to begin with. Painfully simple.

[sunjan]

The point with L.D was if he was running them the way they were designed from the start, he wouldn't have to worry about getting them modded or the clipping. And that he may not have needed it at all to begin with. Painfully simple.

I have to say nameloc has a point here.
In regards to my own rig, I had a long and educative conversation with Chris Church, where he essentially agreed that 3-wire makes perfect sense for AT mics, and that there's no need to "dumb them down" to 2-wire if you intend to run them with a bbox or pre inbetween.

My understanding is that 2-wire has its sole benefit for tapers powering the mics with plugin power. That will enable them to run the mics without any middleware, paired up with the right recorder = more stealthy. That's when 2-wire comes handy - or am I totally off here?

If you own AT mics, and intend to run them with a bbox or pre, there's absolutely no need to do anything else than getting a 3-wire bbox or 3-wire pre. With that, you preserve the original specs, and have a more versatile rig.

[Javier Cinakowski]

no doubt about it, nameloc has a point.  The problem is he has been appling his point to all situations regaurding this set of microphones.  It is a matter of seeing the forest from the trees.   

[Belexes]

As I've said before, I run my AT mics with the 4.7 mod and they can handle anything. Ok, so you lose 10db of sensitivty but I get that back using the CA-9100 pre. From what I can tell/read up on, there is no sound quality difference between phantom/3wire BB and 4.7 mod on AT mics.

Agreed. This is my logic as well.

Did I spend the $ needlessly? I don't think so especially because I run 943 and 853 caps.

[Church-Audio]

What I said again is...

-The AT mics ran 3 wire/phantom are near impossible to clip at a concert. And according to many people sound better than 2 wire. But, let's not argue opinions.

-the AT mics ran 2 wire will clip somewhat easily at a moderate to loud concert.

- the 3 wire/phantom allows max SPLs without compromising the noise.

- the 2 wire modded lowers the sensitivity of the mics, but not the noise in relation to the sensitivity. Right? thus you could say the noise increases. Not too mention possible need of a preamp to regain the lost gain. Right?

All said and done..if $ was not an issue..meaning both methods were the exact same price.. Which one would most people choose?

Minus...the few who may be in fear of stealthing an additional box.
I'm also wondering if Mr.Church has to pay any taxes on these "thousands" of products he's selling here?

Are you kidding me? Pay taxes dude you have no idea about how much taxes I have to pay and how little $$$ I make. As far as trying to sell my mod HEHE thats a good one I ACTUALLY give the info away for free!! Anyways you can talk about me all you want but when you start saying that I am not paying my taxes you have gone way to far. You dont know me from adam. I dont charge my US customers TAX because they are in the USA and I am in Canada SO guess who pays the taxes on the transactions ME!

[Church-Audio]

Yes,I know this. The basic point again is, it has come to the point whenever someone mentions AT mics, someone immediately chimes in with "gotta get'em modded or you'll have problems"

-which is kinda true..

I say "kinda" because if they were not being ran incorrectly to begin with there wouldn't be any problems to address by getting the mics modified.

Hence, the right way is 3 wire. Not 2.

I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm also not saying it isn't more convenient for some people. And its definitely cheaper.

I just wonder how many people have gotten their mics modified out of fear of clipping all the while not understanding if they were powered CORRECTLY it wouldn't be an issue to begin with...I can think of a few right of the start.

Which brings me back to that "battery box thread" instead of explaining to that guy he was running his mics wrong (thus giving him problems) he was told he needed to get his mics "modified" to prevent any future problems. Which is the truth, but not the entire truth. This is where I have a problem.

People can do whatever the hell they want, but they should be given all relative info before they are told what they need to do. Now, if I worked for Denecke, I would hope someone would call me out for doing the same thing, but I don't.

Example: Liquiddrum /Simon.. He says above he modded his 943s...now he may or may not realise that his particular mics may not of have even needed to get modded..but he wanted (I assume) to avoid clipping, so he "modded" them. So, its possible he paid for something he didn't even need. Apparently no one explained this to him. If he was running them 3 wire, it wouldn't even be an issue at all. And he wouldn't have to worry about needing a preamp to regain his lost gain.

So,that's my last comment on the subject. People can do what they want,the tapes will tell the tale.

Running the mics three wire makes you lose 12 db of gain. Running the mics 2 wire gives you +12 db of gain over 3 wire. Running the mics with my mod gives you a loss of -10 db of gain over 2 wire. And when I do a mod for someone I actually test the mics to see if they need it if they dont I dont charge them.