Topic: JW Mod 460's > what Pre/ADC?

[thegreatgumbino]

I just got a pair of stock 460's and plan on having the JW mod done shortly.  The only sources I've heard with these were the Pmod and T+mod UA-5 on the Archive.  What does everyone else like to run behind these?  Anyone have some sources they can share?

[EA]

I just got a pair of stock 460's and plan on having the JW mod done shortly.  The only sources I've heard with these were the Pmod and T+mod UA-5 on the Archive.  What does everyone else like to run behind these?  Anyone have some sources they can share?

I ran my JW mod 460's > V2 > tod mod SBM1 most of the time and loved the combo. I'm sure they'd sound great with a V3. I ran 'em a few times with a mini-me and it also sounded really nice but too warm for my particular tastes (I like my recordings transparent). You're gonna love your mod 460's no matter what you run them into.

[fozzy]

.02
MP2 > modSBM1

[thegreatgumbino]

Can you run 24 bits with the SBM1?  What's the difference between the tod mod and the Oade mod SBM1?  Don't flame me for not using the search function...yet.  Just figured I'd pose the question since you guys were referencing them.  Also, since I've never done any research on the SBM1 or the MP2, what's the sound comparable to...warm?

[Tim]

no 24 bits with the sbm1

I suggest you reference the ongoing oade modsbm1 thread in pre/ad section for the differences in the two as it is a pretty technical question and you're better off reading it yourself so nothing gets lost in the translation

the oade modsbm1 is colored and warm
I think the todd modsbm1 is cleaner
a regular is sbm1 is not warm, it's a bit digital sounding... a little bright but not terribly so

the mp2 is a transformer based preamp, it's got a beefy lowend and is a bit colored

[dgodwin]

Can you run 24 bits with the SBM1?  What's the difference between the tod mod and the Oade mod SBM1?  Don't flame me for not using the search function...yet.  Just figured I'd pose the question since you guys were referencing them.  Also, since I've never done any research on the SBM1 or the MP2, what's the sound comparable to...warm?

There's no 24bit sbm-1's.  Oade doesn't do the sbm-1 afaik.  Todd R is doing them now.  There's information about them here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=48138.0;topicseen   The oade SBM-1 is described as having a warm sound.  I don't know about the MP2.   I run stock 460's with a PS2 (phantom power only) and a stock SBM-1   The last show I taped can be found here  Also, fwiw, I've just jumped on a t+ mod UA5, so I've sold or am in the process of selling my PS2 and SBM-1.  Just trying something different...   

edit:  damn tim are you fast...

[Ray76]

Can you run 24 bits with the SBM1?  What's the difference between the tod mod and the Oade mod SBM1?  Don't flame me for not using the search function...yet.  Just figured I'd pose the question since you guys were referencing them.  Also, since I've never done any research on the SBM1 or the MP2, what's the sound comparable to...warm?

There's no 24bit sbm-1's.  Oade doesn't do the sbm-1 afaik.  Todd R is doing them now.  There's information about them here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=48138.0;topicseen   The oade SBM-1 is described as having a warm sound.  I don't know about the MP2.   I run stock 460's with a PS2 (phantom power only) and a stock SBM-1   The last show I taped can be found here  Also, fwiw, I've just jumped on a t+ mod UA5, so I've sold or am in the process of selling my PS2 and SBM-1.  Just trying something different...   

edit:  damn tim are you fast...

Oade did two different line stage mods...Presence and Warm...majority being warm....but yeah, read the ongoing discussion....

[JAH]

I ran the Nissan ABB show 1st set using the JW mod 461's (madian voyage) into the MME...I can send if you want...just pm me.

peace
jah

[thegreatgumbino]

Thanks for the info guys.  I really want to set myself up for 24 bit incase the microtracker ever materializes, and I don't want to run an R4 or 722.  Just trying to work out the options and get a feel for what everyone likes.

I think the T+mod is probably the way that I'll head to save some cash for a new playback system to do the 24 bit justice.

edit for spelling.

[F.O.Bean]

i bet jwmod460's>v3 would sound YUMMY!

[thegreatgumbino]

i bet jwmod460's>v3 would sound YUMMY!

Dammit Bean!  I was just about past wanting the V3, and you had to come along and ruin it for me!   

[Tim]

goose and I ran an a/b comparison of 4022's and jw mod 460's (actives/lemo).
It turned out so very close that you can barely hear any diff. Each mic had its own signature sound, but the diff is so intimately small that it would be difficult to describe.
We recorded a 3 piece acoustic ensemble of harp, flute, and viola from 1st row RoC (by design and intent).

WOW

that says a lot about those mod460's!

[thegreatgumbino]

goose and I ran an a/b comparison of 4022's and jw mod 460's (actives/lemo), both into V3's.
It turned out so very close that you can barely hear any diff. Each mic had its own signature sound, but the diff is so intimately small that it would be difficult to describe.
We recorded a 3 piece acoustic ensemble of harp, flute, and viola from 1st row RoC (by design and intent).

So that would mean you ran the ck1x caps with the 460's right?  I think I read the ck1x is pretty comparable to the ck61, yes?

[thegreatgumbino]

Moke-

Do you have any V3 sources you can share or point me to?  I haven't found any!  I'd sure like to hear it, but I'm afraid it will make me want one even more. 

[Kyle]

goose and I ran an a/b comparison of 4022's and jw mod 460's (actives/lemo).
It turned out so very close that you can barely hear any diff. Each mic had its own signature sound, but the diff is so intimately small that it would be difficult to describe.
We recorded a 3 piece acoustic ensemble of harp, flute, and viola from 1st row RoC (by design and intent).

WOW

that says a lot about those mod460's!

I talked to JW awhile back about the 460 mod and he said that he thought that it was comparable to the 4011, 402x series of mics  -      thanks Moke for the comp - I have been wanting to do this for some time - here is another reason to get this mod done (once I find another 460 body)

[thegreatgumbino]

goose and I ran an a/b comparison of 4022's and jw mod 460's (actives/lemo).
It turned out so very close that you can barely hear any diff. Each mic had its own signature sound, but the diff is so intimately small that it would be difficult to describe.

WOW

that says a lot about those mod460's!

I talked to JW awhile back about the 460 mod and he said that he thought that it was comparable to the 4011, 402x series of mics  -      thanks Moke for the comp - I have been wanting to do this for some time - here is another reason to get this mod done (once I find another 460 body)

Reason, number XX - the hope that leegeddy and JAH are successful with the creation of active cables to run the ckxx caps!   

[thegreatgumbino]

Moke-

Do you have any V3 sources you can share or point me to? I haven't found any! I'd sure like to hear it, but I'm afraid it will make me want one even more.

Let me shn a sample, and I'll let you know where to get it.
I've gotta find the comp disc first

Thanks, Moke!  +T

[Tim]

GUESS

[Tim]

on it

so is it track 10 and 11 from both sources on one download?

[Tim]

thanks

[dgodwin]

thanks  I have my guess, but I don't want to influence others.  Can you PM me which source is which. 

[F.O.Bean]

so do ya'll think the jwmod is a huge step/sonic sound over the 480 bodies

[Tim]

SKIP THIS POST IF YOU DON'T WANT MY OPINION AND GUESSES



both tracks are excellent, I would love to hear the whole show from both sources... these impressions come fast, I don't dwell long..

















track 10 has a more rounded and musical feel to it, cleaner in the upper mids, better imaging - tighter, deep soundstage and fairly wide

track 11 is brighter, a bit more fatiguing,, more bite on the top end, the attack on the strings is much harsher... a little too active in the upper-mids, it's almost clouded, muddled imaging, nice deep soundstage but a bit narrow






my GUESS


would be



track 10: dpa's
track 11: mod 460's

[F.O.Bean]

mok3, PM me what the answer is please!

[Tim]

lemme check....

[thegreatgumbino]

Moke-

Thanks for the comp!  +T in twelve.

I pm'd you my guess.  Let me know how I fare'd.

Overall, I think they are both very nice recordings.  One is overall cleaner, tighter, and a bit less fatiguing, but both are very nice.  For the spread in the $, I think the 460's sound pretty damn good.

[BJ]

Thank you for the comparisons moke!!

i would guess that:

10 = dpa...this just sounded softer overall, more even throughout. very full and pleasant.

11 = akg's...tad harsh, tho very slightly.  seemed very full

i listened several times before making up my mind, but the wife and I agreed about which was more to our liking.

moke..can you pm me the sources?? 

ugg..i was really thinking about fozzys 460's (IF I could ever sell the audix)...and i would like to get that v2 in the yard sale....
I think the jw mod 460's ->v2 -> ua5(i like this a/d for 24bit) would sound excellent!!!


[edit]jeez...now that I read tim's description...mine seems like a 3rd grader wrote it!  lawyers and their way with words...nice job tim  looks like we agreed tho, albeit your more detailed in your thoughts

[Tim]

the V3 is not noisy... I have several tapes made with run literally WIDE OPEN and there's no noise

wonder who that crichety old bastard was who taped those shows ?

[EA]

Me being one of the first people to run JW mod 460's in the field (actually I think the first), and being one of the major influences on turning other people on to them, it's good to hear others finally realizing how sick these mics really are. For under a grand, I don't think you can find anything that even comes close. And IMHO, they compete with most mics twice the price. I wish that I had never sold mine. But when I do have some extra cash to buy new mics, I can promise you it'll be another pair of 460's that'll get sent straight to Jim.

[BJ]

KCMoeJoe has the jw mod 460's runing into the tmod+ ua5.  I think his pulls from wakarusa sound excellent.  This is a mighty fine combo at a great price IMHO.  If I can't get the v2 for some reason, i will prolly opt for the tmod+...

[Chris K]

i dont think it has been mentioned, so i am assuming the 460's were also run cardiod

i have come to my own opinion and i am anxious to hear the results

[dgodwin]

i know this has been gone over many times, but the jim williams mod for the 460s is 125 a mic (250/pair) & the 460s can be run as actives with akg made cables that are extremely rare.  the caps that are used with the 460s are the same caps as the 480s, but the caps run with the actives are different, right?

i know, i know, "search function"........

Everythings right, except the price.  $150 a mic now...

[dgodwin]

I purchased mine with the Ck61 caps for $500   If you're looking for cardioid sound pickup, you should be able to find a similar deal on ebay, here, or elsewhere (I got mine through gearslutz)  If you're looking for hypers, omnis, etc, then you can probably get fozzy's 460's if they're still available for $350.  You might be able to find them for lower if you look around... Hope this helps!

[thegreatgumbino]

i know this has been gone over many times, but the jim williams mod for the 460s is 125 a mic (250/pair) & the 460s can be run as actives with akg made cables that are extremely rare.  the caps that are used with the 460s are the same caps as the 480s, but the caps run with the actives are different, right?

i know, i know, "search function"........

Everythings right, except the price.  $150 a mic now...

Actually JW said the website isn't correct.  It is $175/mic now, and a one week turnaround.

The 460's can be run with the AKG active cables, but they are extremely rare.  I think there are 2 people here that have them.  The AKG actives can only be run with the ckxx series caps, not the ck6 series caps.  One cable went on ebay a while back for a good amount of $.  But, JAH & Leegeddy are working on an active cable that will work with the ck6 series cap, so this gives me some hope even if it may be a ways off.

[thegreatgumbino]

I think the jw mod 460's ->v2 -> ua5(i like this a/d for 24bit) would sound excellent!!!

I thought about this too, but figure it would be easier to go with the V3 to have fewer connections and primarily to save some room in my bag.

KCMoeJoe has the jw mod 460's runing into the tmod+ ua5.  I think his pulls from wakarusa sound excellent.  This is a mighty fine combo at a great price IMHO.  If I can't get the v2 for some reason, i will prolly opt for the tmod+...

I agree.  KCMoeJoe's recordings sold me on the JW mod 460's (http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=KCMoeJoe%20AND%20mediatype%3Aetree%20AND%20collection%3Aetree).  I actually like his Pmod recordings as well.  Check out the Moe. shows at Liberty Hall on the archive. 

I'm tempted to upgrade my Pmod UA-5 to a T+mod, but I'm a bit torn.  The T+UA-5 sounds great, gives me the ability to run a matrix if I choose, and saves me some money.  The drawback I see is that I'm trying to move toward 24 bit recording, and I don't think the UA-5 can add dither like the V3 can?  I'm lazy, and would rather have the equipment do as much work for me as possible. 

[johnw]

As far as I know, the UA5 T+mod would be a great stand alone device for 24/96. It is capable of doing 24/96 over USB and I think it can output this over the SPDIF as well. I'm not sure what you mean about adding dither and I don't think you want dither if recording at 24/96. If you like the UA5 T+mod, I'd say keep it and save up for or borrow a V3. The oade UA5s are limited unlike the V3, and if you ended up missing your UA5, you'll be kicking yourself for letting it go.

[BJ]

As far as I know, the UA5 T+mod would be a great stand alone device for 24/96. It is capable of doing 24/96 over USB and I think it can output this over the SPDIF as well. I'm not sure what you mean about adding dither and I don't think you want dither if recording at 24/96. If you like the UA5 T+mod, I'd say keep it and save up for or borrow a V3. The oade UA5s are limited unlike the V3, and if you ended up missing your UA5, you'll be kicking yourself for letting it go.

i was guessing he meant having a 16bit backup(i.e. jb3) recording at 16bit ...dithered by the v3, while also recording at 24bit.  the ua5 wont  send 24 and 16bit signals simultaneously.  it would just truncate the 24bit signal to the jb3

[BJ]

the v3 doesn't allow for a split signal either. You're either outputting 24bit or 16bit ANSR.

oh...thats good to know...i guess i was assuming wrong on his post then....not sure about the dither now

[thegreatgumbino]

As far as I know, the UA5 T+mod would be a great stand alone device for 24/96. It is capable of doing 24/96 over USB and I think it can output this over the SPDIF as well. I'm not sure what you mean about adding dither and I don't think you want dither if recording at 24/96.

I don't make any sense here.  I got ahead of myself, left out some info, and should have been more clear.  From the Grace website:

"The lunatec V3 is also equipped with our unique new analog noise shaping dither circuit, or ANSRTM, which can be applied for word-length reduction when sending signals to a 16-bit digital recorder."

Until the microtraker is proven to be the way to go for a 24 bit capture device, I will be running my JB3.  This allows me to add dither to my 16 bit recording until I make the jump to 24 bit.  Additionally, I was hoping that once I jump to 24 bit, I can still run the JB3 as a backup out of the V3.  Now, the question is whether or not I can do that and apply the dither to the 16 bit version, or if it will truncate the to the 16bit and not give me that option.  You guys clarified that this isn't possible while I was typing this.

Also from the Grace website:

"Sample rates of 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 and 192 kHz are supported."

If I'm not mistaken, the UA-5 can only do up to 96 kHz.  So I'm looking at the V3 as an opportunity for future growth.

I know very little about 24 bit recording right now, and haven't done a lot of research.  Just trying to set myself up for the capabilities.

If you like the UA5 T+mod, I'd say keep it and save up for or borrow a V3. The oade UA5s are limited unlike the V3, and if you ended up missing your UA5, you'll be kicking yourself for letting it go.

No arguements here.  It all comes down to the precious dollar.  I have a Pmod right now, and it will cost me to upgrade to the T+mod.  It makes for a difficult decision when I'd be investing additional money in the UA-5 that I would probably never recover if I did sell it.  That money could be spend on upgrading to the V3.

[johnw]

As far as I know, the only device that can do simultaneous 24 and 16 bit is the MiniMe albeit one output has to be USB. Personally, I'd love to see a PDA with a USB input. Of course then Apogee and Edirol would have to write drivers for that device and I'm sure they'd be quick to jump on that 

Oh and what about seeing if anyone would trade their Tmod for a Pmod?

[thegreatgumbino]

As far as I know, the only device that can do simultaneous 24 and 16 bit is the MiniMe albeit one output has to be USB. Personally, I'd love to see a PDA with a USB input. Of course then Apogee and Edirol would have to write drivers for that device and I'm sure they'd be quick to jump on that 

Oh and what about seeing if anyone would trade their Tmod for a Pmod?

Yea, I didn't realize you can't do that until you guys confirmed it.  Don't get me wrong, the T+mod is hard to beat.  Doubt I'll find anyone that wants to trade though.  There are very few in existence from what I understand.  If I had the money I'd definitely hang onto mine and get the V3. 

Ideally, I'd get send mine in to get the W+mod and have the V3 as well.  Then I'd have some room to play with transparency and warmth. Kind of like having a V3 and a 148 to play with IMO.

[ts]

i know this has been gone over many times, but the jim williams mod for the 460s is 125 a mic (250/pair) & the 460s can be run as actives with akg made cables that are extremely rare.  the caps that are used with the 460s are the same caps as the 480s, but the caps run with the actives are different, right?

i know, i know, "search function"........

Everythings right, except the price.  $150 a mic now...

Actually JW said the website isn't correct.  It is $175/mic now, and a one week turnaround.

The 460's can be run with the AKG active cables, but they are extremely rare.  I think there are 2 people here that have them.  The AKG actives can only be run with the ckxx series caps, not the ck6 series caps.  One cable went on ebay a while back for a good amount of $.  But, JAH & Leegeddy are working on an active cable that will work with the ck6 series cap, so this gives me some hope even if it may be a ways off.

and it's more than a week. i'm going on 2 now. 350 for the mod/pair. i paid 400 for the active cables with the CK1x caps and 350 for the 460 bodies. so i'll have a total of 1100.00 into a nice pair of JW mod 460's with actives. that i hope won't be too bright sounding.

[thegreatgumbino]

i'm just getting into some basic 24bit playback, and from doing some searching on TS i don't really think recording at 192khz is necessary or even beneficial, there is even some who prefer 44.1 over 96 i think.  I've also seen quite a few comments from some folks that 24bits sometimes is too much for loud, boomy rock shows(if that's what you tape).  just some food for thought

Easy questions (hopefully), and please don't flame me for not researching this more:

First, How many people here have 24 bit capabilities and still run 16 bit for loud rock shows? 

Second, how much of a difference does applying the V3's dither really affect the quality of the recording?  Is there really a benefit or noticeable difference?

[§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥]

I used a MiniMe with my mod 463's a few times and loved it. The DMIC-20 was decent, as was the digimod UA-5.

[thegreatgumbino]

and it's more than a week. i'm going on 2 now. 350 for the mod/pair. i paid 400 for the active cables with the CK1x caps and 350 for the 460 bodies. so i'll have a total of 1100.00 into a nice pair of JW mod 460's with actives. that i hope won't be too bright sounding.

Let me know if their too bright.  I'll take first dibs on the actives & ck1x caps if/when you decide you don't want them     We can work out the details then 

[Chris K]

did mr moke post the results to this comp? 

[thegreatgumbino]

did mr moke post the results to this comp? 

I pm'd you the results.

[thegreatgumbino]

I recommend you sell your ua5 & buy a fostex fr-2.  you can get it modded Warm or Transparent, and record 24/192 on cf cards.  They can be had for $1600 modded I think by Oade, and all you would need to get is batteries & a cf card.

I hear you on this one.  The sound very nice IMO.  Who runs one that can comment?

Bueller, Bueller.....

[thegreatgumbino]

Paging carlebeck and daryan lenz....

[thegreatgumbino]

do you guys want their opinions on the FR2?  i am positive there is a long thead about the FR2, i'll find it shortly(using the search ).

another ts.com user is john lynn, and he actually runs carl's rig a lot, maybe ask him too.  I met him this past Friday and saw Carl's rig, that akg mic is SWEET!  I'm sure john will be able to add some insight, he seemed very familiar with the fr2.

also note the marantz pmd 671, doug is currently working on mods for that as well, september '05 is the expected release date(for his mods).  it 'only' does 96khz, not 192 but it's definitely smaller than the fr2, looks more like a dap1 to me.  i have no desire for 192khz, not even sure about 96khz at this time, and the basic mod units doug already does go for $975 so the warm or t or whatever mod he does might might make this a contendah!

Yea, I'd like to hear about the FR-2.  The samples that Doug's got up are comparable to the V3 sound, IMO.  I searched for it, but didn't find anything major...just a few small threads.  Maybe I found the one you speak of, and just expected it to be more indepth.

I'll do some research on the pmd 671.  Sounds like a good deal.  I don't know that going over 96 kHz is a priority or not really.  Everything I read says you notice more of a jump going from 16 bit to 24/48 than from 48 to 96.  Can't say for sure though since I've never heard any 24 bit stuff.

[Ray76]

yeah, that is a long, varied thread.  here are 2 opinions posted though:

Listening to an FR-2 tape for the first time, mk4>fr-2, neville bros. from telluride blues and brews, and really like the sound. To me, sounds a whole bunch like an m148, warm, but tight overall and dry in the low end. good first impression for sure, even listening to a 16bit cd.

My FR-2 sounds like a 148 but we aren't done with it yet, Doug is going to fatten it up just a little more for me. He can do either mod so if you decide after a while you want the T-mod or you changed mics you can send it back which is really cool. I love the sound of mine, we just haven't had anything worth taping all year up here!

Sixto,,,,,your ex gear did me real well last night...tape is in the kickdown...bonnie prince billy...love this 148 and MGs...man do i.

[thegreatgumbino]

The pmd 671 really isn't that much smaller than the FR-2. 

pmd 671 = 10.4"w  x  2.0"h  x  7.3"d , weight = 2 lbs 14 oz.

fr-2 =          9.8"w  x  3.0"h  x  8.7"d , weight = 3.3 lbs

Guess I'll have to do some spec comparisions to find the differences other than these.

[thegreatgumbino]

agreed, it's just the 1" difference in height that i notice when i look at it.  they both look pretty nice to me, and i'd go with the fostex in a second if it sounds better.

Wish Doug had the pmd mod files up for comparision!  Won't be long though.  The samples of the FR-2 mods that he's got up lead me to believe it is damn close to the V3 sound. 

[Charlies]

I can't believe the AKGs sound like the DPAs and vice versa...yes both are flat, but man do they sound different..wonder what JW does in there....I really enjoy both in different respects, but I would never have thought of mentioning them as being close in sound! I wonder what JW thinks of the JK boxes...??

[EA]

I can't believe the AKGs sound like the DPAs and vice versa...yes both are flat, but man do they sound different..wonder what JW does in there....I really enjoy both in different respects, but I would never have thought of mentioning them as being close in sound! I wonder what JW thinks of the JK boxes...??

Jim's probably never heard the JK boxes. You need to remember that Jim is NOT a taper and does NOT cater to the taper community. By and large he does work for big name studios and musicians.  When I first got my 460's modded by him he actually had doubts about how well they would do in the field for rock type shows. Being the first person to actually really try them out in the field I took a huge leap of faith in having them modded. Obviously it turned out to be a great thing for both my recordings and the team AKG community in general now that they're starting to catch on. As for your question about what he does in there, I used to have the entire list of specs. But I can't seem to find them now as it's been a few years since I've dug them out. If you email him about what he does to them he'll be happy to share the info in detail though I'm sure.

[F.O.Bean]

i recall a pic of all the aprts he sent back FWIW

maybe you posted it tho EA

[johnw]

I can post a pic of the parts he took out, but no idea what he put in. I'd offer to open one up to look, but was told by AKG that there is a tiny spring that often gets lost after opening them.

[MarkF]

Here is a picture of what he sent back when he modded my 460.

[BobW]

i bet jwmod460's>v3 would sound YUMMY!

Dammit Bean!  I was just about past wanting the V3, and you had to come along and ruin it for me!   

You are getting kinda sleepy............

When you awake, you will dig deep into your pockets and buy a V3..........     


I still haven't run AKGs with the T-Mod, although 414s are high on my list of wants.
See the "Guess the Band"  thread for an MP3 with SP LSD2 and T-Mod FR-2.
Didn't Nick's run a T-Mod w/ AKG 414 ULS ?

I have grown very fond of the sound.  Startlingly accurate. 
FWIW, I like the LSD2/ T-Mod sound. Doug called a very solid and listenable combo.

I can't help about the mod 460s, 'cause I haven't a clue as to how they sound.
If you're in NYC area, I'm happy to let you give the T-Mod a spin.

[thegreatgumbino]

You are getting kinda sleepy............
When you awake, you will dig deep into your pockets and buy a V3..........     

A V3 would definitely sound great!   But, I think I'm going to go with the T+mod UA-5 and might pickup a Wmod UA-5 to run when I want some warmth.  I could have both of these UA-5 flavors for less than the price of the V3.

Unless someone has a m148 they want to sell me! 

I still haven't run AKGs with the T-Mod, although 414s are high on my list of wants.
See the "Guess the Band"  thread for an MP3 with SP LSD2 and T-Mod FR-2.
Didn't Nick's run a T-Mod w/ AKG 414 ULS ?

I've got no clue on the band...Bela?

That's a great sounding clip.  I think Doug's mod FR-2's sound fantastic!  I've been listening to everything I can find with them.  IMO the mod FR-2 sounds just as good as a V3.  Definitely a viable option when you think about the price.  Oade mod FR-2 + CF </= V3 + microtraker + CF. 

I'm struggling with the one box thing though.  It is a major plus, but could be a negative too.  The low cost of the UA-5 gives me some flexibility with other gear options I guess.  Plus the ability to run a matrix is pretty sweet. 

Although, I'd sacrifice that to be able to run an Oade Tmod FR-2 with an m148, if someone wants to sell me their m148 

I have grown very fond of the sound.  Startlingly accurate. 
FWIW, I like the LSD2/ T-Mod sound. Doug called a very solid and listenable combo.

I love the LSD2 sound!  You've got a great rig there.  Do you ever need to upgrade?

I can't help about the mod 460s, 'cause I haven't a clue as to how they sound.
If you're in NYC area, I'm happy to let you give the T-Mod a spin.

Thanks for the offer, input, and sample Bob!  If I ever make it out your way, I may take you up on it.

[thegreatgumbino]

Didn't Nick's run a T-Mod w/ AKG 414 ULS ?

He actually ran an O-mod FR-2.  Here's a copy of his DTB recording.  Sounds pretty damn sweet...and it's blumlein!  Yummy. 

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=20015

[thegreatgumbino]

Anybody here run AKG 460/480 > m148 > V3?  What's the consensus?  I've read the m148 brings the soundstage closer to you while the v3 provides the quality detail.

[Tim]

Bean has run that combo before...

[thegreatgumbino]

Bean has run that combo before...

Just finished PM'ing him about getting some copies. 

[sygdwm]

i ran 483>v3 in cinci then 483>148>v3 in deer creek for panic. the latter way smoked but our location was better. i wish i could elaborate but i currently cant play back my dats, but i will say the difference was remarkable. 

[Ray76]

Bean has run that combo before...

Just finished PM'ing him about getting some copies. 

Matt, you D/L my tapes yet??

Teddy

[d5]

i recall a pic of all the aprts he sent back FWIW

maybe you posted it tho EA

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=33963.0

[thegreatgumbino]

Matt, you D/L my tapes yet??

Teddy

Working on it as we speak.  Had shitty download speeds & connectivity problems at work due to thunderstorms.  Just got home and kicked it back on.  Looking forward to hearing it for sure!

[thegreatgumbino]

the modded ones do sound fantastic, i had a copy of mod vs. non-mod,a nd the mod was GREAT

Hey Bean.  You still have this mod vs. non-mod comp tape?

[ts]

and it's more than a week. i'm going on 2 now. 350 for the mod/pair. i paid 400 for the active cables with the CK1x caps and 350 for the 460 bodies. so i'll have a total of 1100.00 into a nice pair of JW mod 460's with actives. that i hope won't be too bright sounding.

Let me know if their too bright.  I'll take first dibs on the actives & ck1x caps if/when you decide you don't want them     We can work out the details then 

I ran the JW mod 460's for the first time at ABB the other night(8/19). 17th row just slightly right of center. Used the CK1x caps and actives ORTF @110% and *they are bright sounding, mostly the vocals, almost fatiguing*. My ears are used to bright(Nak 1000's, 700's and unmodded 460's)but these seem even brighter, so they will take some getting used to.  Overall, I'm pleased. I was very hesitant in doing the mod, 'cause I really liked the way they sounded unmodded. Unmodded I pulled consistently good sounding tapes. My first impression on the modded version is that they will take a little more thought on setup and position. Maybe not as forgiving.

Again, these are first impressions in a tent covered outdoor amphitheater. Next Sunday I'll be trying them open air with Jdisc/CK62's, and then indoors with CK63's. So I  should have a good idea of their performance in different situations real soon. Report back later.

Tony

*edited my previous statement after a real good listen, were I first thought they were not bright sounding. These puppies are bright, maybe it's the CK1x caps, maybe the mod460/V3 combo, maybe it was the venue/mix. I don't know. The instrumental tracks are very nice, full sounding. Most Gregg vocal tracks are fatiguing to listen to.

[thegreatgumbino]

I ran the JW mod 460's for the first time at ABB the other night(8/19).

+T for the new mod mics!

[thegreatgumbino]

The search is over!  An opti mod V3 should be here on Tuesday.   

Now to find a m148.  Oh where oh where can one be?   

[Ray76]

The search is over!  An opti mod V3 should be here on Tuesday.   

Now to find a m148.  Oh where oh where can one be?   

 

[ts]

The search is over!  An opti mod V3 should be here on Tuesday.   

Now to find a m148.  Oh where oh where can one be?   

So I'm beginning to get the impression that the V3 by itself is not the best unit to run behind these mics. Well I don't think I'll be getting rid of my V3 and I doubt I'll be looking for another pre to run in front of it. So it's either get used to this "new" sound or go back to the unmodded 460's. I ran the CK61 caps and found them to be a little less fatiguing than the CK1x caps but still that in your face sound. I find myself wanting to turn the volume down more often, whereas with the unmodded 460's, I could continually increase the volume with very little fatigue. Anyone else with a V3 feel this way.

[thegreatgumbino]

The search is over!  An opti mod V3 should be here on Tuesday.   

So I'm beginning to get the impression that the V3 by itself is not the best unit to run behind these mics. Well I don't think I'll be getting rid of my V3 and I doubt I'll be looking for another pre to run in front of it. So it's either get used to this "new" sound or go back to the unmodded 460's. I ran the CK61 caps and found them to be a little less fatiguing than the CK1x caps but still that in your face sound. I find myself wanting to turn the volume down more often, whereas with the unmodded 460's, I could continually increase the volume with very little fatigue. Anyone else with a V3 feel this way.

My V3 gets here tomorrow, so I haven't run it yet.  Hopefully, I won't have the same feelings you do about the mod 460 > V3 

I'm looking forward to hearing the combo though.  If you decide to move away from the 460's I got dibs on your actives and caps 

[ts]

The search is over!  An opti mod V3 should be here on Tuesday.   

Now to find a m148.  Oh where oh where can one be?   

So I'm beginning to get the impression that the V3 by itself is not the best unit to run behind these mics. Well I don't think I'll be getting rid of my V3 and I doubt I'll be looking for another pre to run in front of it. So it's either get used to this "new" sound or go back to the unmodded 460's. I ran the CK61 caps and found them to be a little less fatiguing than the CK1x caps but still that in your face sound. I find myself wanting to turn the volume down more often, whereas with the unmodded 460's, I could continually increase the volume with very little fatigue. Anyone else with a V3 feel this way.

im sorry to hear you are unhappy with your mods tony, thats a major bummer.  sell the v3 & get a oade warm modfostex fr-2, ($1600 ) that will solve all your problems 

I'm not really unhappy, although it may sound that way. They're just so damn punchy sounding. The unmodded 460's were warm and comfortable to listen to. I'm sure I'll get used to them and feel I did the right thing. Only way I'll get rid of the V3 is to replace it with a V4

[Kevin]

460(mod)>248>SBM-1

[F.O.Bean]

that seems awfully bright tho kevin

[thegreatgumbino]

that seems awfully bright tho kevin

Yea, the m148 > V3 would sound sweet though 

[thegreatgumbino]

Ran the stock 461's > V3 last night for the first time.  Sounds great!  I'm sending my 460's to JW for the mod next week, though 

[ts]

Ran the stock 461's > V3 last night for the first time.  Sounds great!  I'm sending my 460's to JW for the mod next week, though 

stock 460's>V3 is a very nice sounding combo. I ran my JW's with the CK61's for RD and sounds much better than my first attempt. 

[thegreatgumbino]

Actually JW said the website isn't correct.  It is $175/mic now, and a one week turnaround.

and it's more than a week. i'm going on 2 now. 350 for the mod/pair. i paid 400 for the active cables with the CK1x caps and 350 for the 460 bodies. so i'll have a total of 1100.00 into a nice pair of JW mod 460's with actives. that i hope won't be too bright sounding.

FYI, Jim received my mics last Wednesday late morning.  He sent them back out via UPS on Thursday evening.  I got them last night.  Pretty damn quick, IMO.

[F.O.Bean]

Actually JW said the website isn't correct. It is $175/mic now, and a one week turnaround.

and it's more than a week. i'm going on 2 now. 350 for the mod/pair. i paid 400 for the active cables with the CK1x caps and 350 for the 460 bodies. so i'll have a total of 1100.00 into a nice pair of JW mod 460's with actives. that i hope won't be too bright sounding.

FYI, Jim received my mics last Wednesday late morning. He sent them back out via UPS on Thursday evening. I got them last night. Pretty damn quick, IMO.

+T bud, cant wait to hear how the jwmods compare to the sdtock 460's/480's

[thegreatgumbino]

OFOTD and I are still looking for volunteers with MiAGi II > V3 to help us with the comp Bean.  Why don't you head on down?

If not, would you loan out your rig for a weekend to help the cause?   

[F.O.Bean]

OFOTD and I are still looking for volunteers with MiAGi II > V3 to help us with the comp Bean. Why don't you head on down?

If not, would you loan out your rig for a weekend to help the cause?

where ya gonna be and when do ya need stuff

i need the rig this thursday/!

[thegreatgumbino]

OFOTD and I are still looking for volunteers with MiAGi II > V3 to help us with the comp Bean. Why don't you head on down?

If not, would you loan out your rig for a weekend to help the cause?

where ya gonna be and when do ya need stuff

i need the rig this thursday/!

ACL Fest is 9/23 to 9/25 in Austin, Texas.  We've been trying to piece a rig together but aren't having much luck.  If your really interested in donating to the cause we'd appreciate it.  If you've got shows planned, no biggie.  I'm sure we can piece something together, just hope to have 3 of the same cables > pre/adc setups running. 

I tried to get the loaner bumblebees, but Aberg's got them through the 25th or so.   

[thegreatgumbino]

Someone emailed me asking about the JW mod 460's.  I compiled most of the information that I could find on TS.com and summarized it as the following for ease of research.


Jim Williams (JW) started doing these mods to the AKG 460's for studio recording.  It spilled over into field recording eventually.  To quote Jim, "
...the 460 mod includes transformer removal, new LT opamp, Hitachi transistors, MIT caps, etc. Low end extends to 2 hz. Top end has smoother clearer sound with great low level detail, all the plastic overtones are moved. I have Schoeps, B+K, etc., and these are the most real mics I've heard. You can hear yourself smile from 3 feet away!"

Jim compares having the mod done to , "when your driving up a mountain and your ears pop."  Several people that have run both the stock 460's and the JW mod 460's have confirmed that this is an excellent description.

JW also compares the mod 460's to the DPA 4011, 402x series of mics.  Moke & Goose ran a comparision of the JW mod 460's > V3 and the DPA 4022's > V3.  The results showed the highs of the mod 460's to a tad harsher and the 4022's to be more enjoyable overall, but the differences of the two were so little that most people didn't think the marginal increase of sound quality for the 4022's justified the big cost differential.  Moke's post and the responses can be read here:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=48168.0
 
Basically the mod 460's give you a transparent, super detailed mics (the "high speed sound"), with an extended/tighter bass response, and when he mods them he matches the bodies.

Here's a picture showing what JW removes from the 460's:



JW charges $350/pair for the mod and it takes about 1-2 weeks depending on his workload and how you ship them.  The 460's aren't made any more and don't come up for sale used very often.  The bodies seem to go for $350 - 500 depending on the condition.  If they come with caps they're more obviously. 

JW told me the bodies with serial #'s prior to 9,000 or 10,000 have a different roll-off switch.  The old bodies had three separate pads run horizontally, where as the newer bodies have one vertical pad.  He said the older ones are not as easy to do the mod on and he doesn't recommend it.  Something to think about if you're in the market.  You don't want to get stuck with a pair that isn't modable.  This thread has a picture of the one with three pads and the one with one pad:





The other bonus with the 460's over the 480's is that they can be run with the ck1x caps, which the 480's can't.  The 460's can also be run with the AKG active cables, which are very rare.  Leegeddy & JAH are working on a set of actives that will work with the 460's and 480's, but no idea when they'll be available.

[ts]

nice gg, +T! Have you reached any conclusions on the mod460>V3 sound yet? I still haven't had a chance to burn mine in yet, I'm waiting for some leegeddy ic's to do it all at once.

[thegreatgumbino]

Thanks.  I sold all my old gear including cables, and hurricane Rita postponed the delivery of my new cables from leegeddy.  I'm hoping to get them today so I can try out the JW mod 460's for the first time.  Rita also canceled my trip to the ACL Fest where OFOTD and I were going to do a comparision of the 460 / JW mod 460 / 480.  I sold my stock 460's yesterday, but I'm going to run a quick comp at home between the stock & JW mod before sending them out.  We shall see!

[thegreatgumbino]

Just finished an at home comparision of the stock 460's, JW Mod 460's, and the 480's.  Ran them all through the V3.  Also ran a comp of the JW Mod 460's & 480's > M148 > V3.  Let us know what you think.

BT is available in the Kickdown section:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52183.msg679735#msg679735

[thegreatgumbino]

Just finished an at home comparision of the stock 460's, JW Mod 460's, and the 480's.  Ran them all through the V3.  Also ran a comp of the JW Mod 460's & 480's > M148 > V3.  Let us know what you think.

BT is available in the Kickdown section:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52183.msg679735#msg679735

Not many people grabbing this.  Figured there would be more interest.  Anyone that has downloaded this care to share their thoughts?

[johnw]

Thanks for doing this! This is an excellent comparison. I've only listened to it on my computer speakers, but there is an obvious difference in the high end between all three mics. I'll have to listen more, but the 480s sound brighter with more sizzle than the other two.

[thegreatgumbino]

No problem.  Glad you are getting something out of it.  I'm looking forward to hearing feedback from the other downloaders.

[F.O.Bean]

Thanks for doing this! This is an excellent comparison. I've only listened to it on my computer speakers, but there is an obvious difference in the high end between all three mics. I'll have to listen more, but the 480s sound brighter with more sizzle than the other two.

does this mean you like the 480's better or?

[johnw]

Hard to say. I'm not usually able to tell much difference between the way things sound (24 vs. 16 bit, copper vs. silver, etc) but this is pretty drastic. I don't think I could even hear much difference between the 148 and the V3. I would have expected that the way the 480s sound would be the way the mod 460s sound. I guess the 480s have a punch whereas the mod460s have a more even sound. All three sounded good - just different. 

[thegreatgumbino]

FWIW, I've got three BT's up in the kickdown that were made with the JW Mod 463 > M148 > V3. 

I think the Toni Price really showcases the sound of the rig.  It sounds fantastic, IMO 

Toni Price
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=53514.0

Charlie Sexton
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=53485.0

Shannon McNally
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=53486.0

[tapinfool]

Hey Now!

I'm only 6 years behind on this thread 

But, I wanted to get some feedback on my new setup 

I just ordered a Bigbox from Jon at Naiant

looks like I'll be running 461/3's > bigbox > D50

I guess I'm just looking for some feedback

I was seriously thinking about getting a V3 so I could run digi in to the D50 at 24 bit

Now the D50 will have to do the ADC 

Any comments and feedback appreciated