Topic: On stage mic positioning?

[F.O.Bean]

no membership necessary

I think this is the recording that he suggests:
http://www.archive.org/details/lotus2005-10-21.481

10/21 and 10/15 are the best onstage-stage-lip lotus shows ive heard, i like matrix's the best but

i would not hesitate to take or make a stage-lip tape over a room tape anyday of the week as long as the band doesnt have vocals

10/15/2005 Lotus

http://www.archive.org/details/lotus2005-10-15.481

[Church-Audio]

no membership necessary

I think this is the recording that he suggests:
http://www.archive.org/details/lotus2005-10-21.481

10/21 and 10/15 are the best onstage-stage-lip lotus shows ive heard, i like matrix's the best but

i would not hesitate to take or make a stage-lip tape over a room tape anyday of the week as long as the band doesnt have vocals

10/15/2005 Lotus

http://www.archive.org/details/lotus2005-10-15.481

BUT thats my point I still stand by what I said I have yet to hear a full band stage recording sound anywhere near as good as a GOOD out front mix. And so far no one has shown me one.

[grider]

for an interesting comparison Chris you might stream Lotus from 10-26-05, it was at the cavernous Canpoy Club and in a totally different acoustical environment than the 10-21-05 was; the 10-21 was in a long narrow two story bar with plywood echoey walls, and the stage is probably only ten or twelve feet wide raised off the floor probably three feet; the 10-26 show however was in a very wide but shallow theatre where the stage is probably fifty or sixty feet wide, suitable for plays and such really, and the stage was also about thirty feet deep; so, for the 10-21 I ran DIN, and for the 10-26 I ran ORTF, and though the recordings are both on stage placement recordings of the same band a week apart with the same gear they sound totally different for the above reasons

[F.O.Bean]

no membership necessary

I think this is the recording that he suggests:
http://www.archive.org/details/lotus2005-10-21.481

10/21 and 10/15 are the best onstage-stage-lip lotus shows ive heard, i like matrix's the best but

i would not hesitate to take or make a stage-lip tape over a room tape anyday of the week as long as the band doesnt have vocals

10/15/2005 Lotus

http://www.archive.org/details/lotus2005-10-15.481

BUT thats my point I still stand by what I said I have yet to hear a full band stage recording sound anywhere near as good as a GOOD out front mix. And so far no one has shown me one.

I agree with you there

[grider]

Chris give a listen to Fareed Haque Group from 4-15-06 also on archive.org and see what you think; I must say for the record that usually when I tape up close it is because either the sound in the room sucks, there is no where to put a stand, and so forth

[bkirby]

Most of the on-stage recordings I do is when I know the band and I have full access to anything. I usually run the MK21s in NOS onstage where the drums are centered! Since I know the guys in the band, they know how to accomodate me where the drums are set up just about center! I will run these through the snake back to the SBD, but the snake is then directly plugged into my mixer. Then I usually have the direct outs from the SBD for the vocal tracks and sometimes the bass and kick (for centering if needed). Mixing on the fly is sometimes difficult in a loud venue, but usually we will record everything on multitrack and mix later. For just two-channel recording into the SD722, I have run it this way and have gotten stellar results! Of course, I know the bands, know how they run their sound, and I'm familiar with the venues. It took a bit of trial and error to get really good results. Just my $0.02! To each their own...

[todd e]

since we are all wipping out our lotus pulls, from last sunday:

http://www.archive.org/details/lotus2007-01-28.mk21.flac16

i think the mix is not too overwhelmed by drums, you can hear the keys/bass/guitar all - very well
there may be a tiny bit too much cymbals, but i'll take that any day over a clapper...

and this was run NOS, a wider ORTF pattern, at 1 foot

ALSO, since I'm a bit worried about this, please download the files as opposed to streaming the mp3's and the VBR or 64 mp3's sound bad IMO.

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

no membership necessary

I think this is the recording that he suggests:
http://www.archive.org/details/lotus2005-10-21.481

10/21 and 10/15 are the best onstage-stage-lip lotus shows ive heard, i like matrix's the best but

i would not hesitate to take or make a stage-lip tape over a room tape anyday of the week as long as the band doesnt have vocals

10/15/2005 Lotus

http://www.archive.org/details/lotus2005-10-15.481

BUT thats my point I still stand by what I said I have yet to hear a full band stage recording sound anywhere near as good as a GOOD out front mix. And so far no one has shown me one.

Unless it's maybe an oldtime/bluegrass recording.  I have many many many that are better than the boards as most sound guys don't use high end mics.  I nudge mine right in there with the setup.  Again I've made many IMO.  Also have had great results with 2 figure 8's in the middle of a circle.

[Church-Audio]

no membership necessary

I think this is the recording that he suggests:
http://www.archive.org/details/lotus2005-10-21.481

10/21 and 10/15 are the best onstage-stage-lip lotus shows ive heard, i like matrix's the best but

i would not hesitate to take or make a stage-lip tape over a room tape any day of the week as long as the band doesnt have vocals

10/15/2005 Lotus

http://www.archive.org/details/lotus2005-10-15.481

BUT thats my point I still stand by what I said I have yet to hear a full band stage recording sound anywhere near as good as a GOOD out front mix. And so far no one has shown me one.

Unless it's maybe an oldtime/bluegrass recording.  I have many many many that are better than the boards as most sound guys don't use high end mics.  I nudge mine right in there with the setup.  Again I've made many IMO.  Also have had great results with 2 figure 8's in the middle of a circle.

Ummm if your taping the show your recording the not so high end mics I like most sound engineers I know use high end mics all the time so I would have to disagree with you on that point.. I would still rather stick it out taping front of house then taping stage No one has shown me the magic recording yet my offer still stands..

[grider]

Fareed Haque Group 4-15-06 on archive.org

[rokpunk]

Just out of curiousity, Chris, do you prefer the sound of a soundboard 2 track recording (assuming a full band mix), or the sound of an audience recording from the sweet spot with decent mics?

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

I could be wrong Chris but most of the clubs in Portland run Shure SM whatever's on everything cept maybe drums.

Oh ya Cris I'd be happy to send you a Crooked Jades recording I made in my backyard last fall with just a stereo pair.  It was unplugged.  No board.  Sounds fantastic.  Lemme know if you're interested.  One of the best I've ever made.  I know it's not a club and not the same but I want you to hear it!  :0)

[Church-Audio]

I could be wrong Chris but most of the clubs in Portland run Shure SM whatever's on everything cept maybe drums.

Oh ya Cris I'd be happy to send you a Crooked Jades recording I made in my backyard last fall with just a stereo pair.  It was unplugged.  No board.  Sounds fantastic.  Lemme know if you're interested.  One of the best I've ever made.  I know it's not a club and not the same but I want you to hear it!  :0)

Most of the bands I work with are using the Neumann 105 handheld or a beta 87. Hardly second rate microphones as for guitar amps I might use a akg 414 or a sm57. I am not talking about small clubs I am talking about in an ideal situation a out front recording is going to be better then a on stage mic recording... I think the days of the cheap mics for live sound and expensive mics for studio are pretty much done.. In the high end of live sound we have all the tricks of the trade studio engineers or live tapers have in there gear bags and then some.

I would love to hear your recording.. I love to listen to good recordings of bands.. Some great albums have been cut with distant mics for recording a band but its understood and the band adjusts the balance accordingly. I have did a show in Oakville Ontario in a live festival with the Montreal Symphony Orchestra I used MKH40 and MKH50 as well as Neumann M50 and others.. I love good mics the gap between the studio and live is closing fast we now have live sound systems that are capable of delivering studio quality world class sound. I know the smaller clubs are not there yet but things are improving. When I started out in clubs the sound system of choice was made by Martin Audio now Its Meyer Sound V-dosc EV/ Line array, JBL vertec, ect. My whole point is a good quality sound system with a good engineer with a good placement of microphones out front, flanks and stage sound recording I have ever heard.

 

[Church-Audio]

Just out of curiousity, Chris, do you prefer the sound of a soundboard 2 track recording (assuming a full band mix), or the sound of an audience recording from the sweet spot with decent mics?

I would always prefer a two track ROOM recording if capturing things they whey they happened is important from an audience perspective. Board mixes can be good I have done a few that turned out very good. Audience recording with a sweet spot with VERY GOOD mics is what I like to hear when its a amplified show.. When its acoustic its a whole different ball game then you want to be close like on stage

[NJFunk]

This isn't a perfect comparison, but here are two recordings that I made of the same band in the same venue with the same mic/preamp/recorder.  This one is a matrix, but the PA had only vocals (and a tiny bit of kick drum), so the guitar, bass, drums, and keys are all coming from the stage mics:

http://www.archive.org/details/JHB2006-12-01-1644-Matrix

This one is a mic recording made from the sweet spot in the audience:

http://www.archive.org/details/jhb2006-06-24.flac16

I'll take the stage lip recording every day of the week.  The sound is clearer and more up close sounding and the stereo image is 100x better on the stage lip recording.