Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?  (Read 20855 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11537
  • Gender: Male
Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #75 on: September 13, 2016, 08:16:15 PM »
*Footnote to my post above-

The clock-rate difference "drift factor" is pretty much constant in that each clock may exhibit significant difference over time in comparison with another clock, yet will still be very consistent with itself unless something is very wrong.  Here's one interesting example of that- Say one records two sources using two separate non-clock-linked recorders only to find there is significant drift between sources when transferred to a computer for playback.  If one instead plays back the resulting files on the same non-clock-linked recorders which originally recorded the files, the sources will effectively retain synchronization for the the entire recording without otherwise having to correct for the drift.  That's because each recorder then operates as it's own complete self-contained sample and reconstruction device, both sampling  and reconstructing using it's own clock, which remains consistent with itself.  Each recorder is it's own analog>digital>analog world in isolation, and effectively cancels out its own clock rate error, as long as that error remains constant. 

The trick in actually doing that is accommodating for the inevitable time-offset between sources at the start of playback.  I used to do this before I owned multichannel recorders, using two original Edirol R-09s , accommodating time-offset by using a series of rapid jabs to the play/pause/play button of whichever machine was slightly ahead of the other.  It helped greatly if the two sources were playing back through separate speakers and I could place my head midway between them to carefully and listen for full elimination of delay and phase effects while jabbing.  It took concentration and looked pretty funny, but it worked for multichannel playback, and helped me develop the ability to identify very slight degrees of misalignment by ear.  I also tried it a few times with three separate recordings, which was incredibly difficult!

Non-constant drifting of the clock rate can of course happen as well, it's just usually more subtle.  At the level of digital samples that manifests as "jitter" distortion.  At an order of magnitude larger time-scale, analogous time fluctuations manifest as tape-speed "flutter" distortion, and at a still larger timescale the "wow" distortion of a record-player turntable.  All these are "clock" speed-rate distortions of various types in different mediums.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

Offline morst

  • Archivist: Camper Van Beethoven & Cracker
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2477
  • Get in touch if you wanna record Cracker or CVB!
    • Soundscape Preservation Society
Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #76 on: September 25, 2016, 04:15:55 PM »
Excellent points, well-summarized!

That's because each recorder then operates as it's own complete self-contained sample and reconstruction device, both sampling  and reconstructing using it's own clock, which remains consistent with itself.  Each recorder is it's own analog>digital>analog world in isolation, and effectively cancels out its own clock rate error, as long as that error remains constant. 
We hope this is true. If you record a show outdoors in winter but transcribe with decks at room temperature, you might find that there is more variation than you expect!?

Also, back in the old days of Chop-And-Paste, one fudge factor was to align individual songs or sections in their middles rather than their starts. This effectively cut the drift in half at the in and out points of each section, in comparison to letting it drift "all the way out" before resynching.
Teams: Neumann, Bay Area Tapers, Multitrack, Pioneertown Tapers, Mac Geeks, Cassette Masters, Poster Collectors, Alumni of teams St Louis, Upper Midwest & Milwaukee / Southern Wisco

Offline justink

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1733
  • Gender: Male
Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #77 on: October 04, 2016, 12:54:56 PM »
i just can not figure this out... i feel like i'm doing all the math correctly but it's just not syncing.  i think it has to do with audacity only lets you go a few digits on the % change.
Mics:
DPA 4028 (wide cards)
DPA 4023 (cards)
Earthworks TC25 (omnis) 

Pres and a/d's:
Oade ACM Grace Lunatec V3 (FOR SALE - Make Offer)
bm2p+ Edirol UA-5 (FOR SALE - Make Offer)

Recorders:
Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Oade CM Edirol R-44 (FOR SALE - Make Offer)
Sony PCM‑M10

Offline capnhook

  • All your llamas are belong to us....
  • Trade Count: (19)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3358
  • All your llamas are belong to us....
Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #78 on: October 04, 2016, 03:49:41 PM »
i just can not figure this out... i feel like i'm doing all the math correctly but it's just not syncing.  i think it has to do with audacity only lets you go a few digits on the % change.
justink, make sure you are using 2.1.0, it utilizes all the significant digits in your multiplier

Versions after that are found to truncate your digits.  Why the team chose to break something that works is beyond any explanation
Proud member of the reality-based community

BSCS-L->JB-mod NAK CM-300 (CP-1,-3)->LSD2->CA CAFS-Omni->Sony ECM-907**Apogee MiniMe Rev. C->CA Ugly II->Oade line-mod SBM1**Edirol OCM R-44->Tascam DR-22WL->Sony TCD-D8


"Don't ever take an all or nothing attitude when it comes to making a difference
and being beautiful and making the world a beautiful place through your actions.
Every little bit is registered.  Every little bit.  So be as beautiful as you can as often as you can"

"It'll never be over, 'till we learn."
 
"My dream is to get a bus and get the band and just go coast to coast. Just about everything else except music, is anti-musical.  That's it.  Music's the thing." - Jeb Puryear

Offline justink

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1733
  • Gender: Male
Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #79 on: October 04, 2016, 07:10:15 PM »
i just can not figure this out... i feel like i'm doing all the math correctly but it's just not syncing.  i think it has to do with audacity only lets you go a few digits on the % change.
justink, make sure you are using 2.1.0, it utilizes all the significant digits in your multiplier

Versions after that are found to truncate your digits.  Why the team chose to break something that works is beyond any explanation

i am... for some reason it lets me put them in but then when i bring it up again, it truncates it down to three decimal places...  which is kinda huge actually.
Mics:
DPA 4028 (wide cards)
DPA 4023 (cards)
Earthworks TC25 (omnis) 

Pres and a/d's:
Oade ACM Grace Lunatec V3 (FOR SALE - Make Offer)
bm2p+ Edirol UA-5 (FOR SALE - Make Offer)

Recorders:
Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Oade CM Edirol R-44 (FOR SALE - Make Offer)
Sony PCM‑M10

Offline capnhook

  • All your llamas are belong to us....
  • Trade Count: (19)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3358
  • All your llamas are belong to us....
Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #80 on: October 04, 2016, 10:24:30 PM »
Yeah.  You have to paste the factor back in each time you use the tool, or it chops your digits off.
Proud member of the reality-based community

BSCS-L->JB-mod NAK CM-300 (CP-1,-3)->LSD2->CA CAFS-Omni->Sony ECM-907**Apogee MiniMe Rev. C->CA Ugly II->Oade line-mod SBM1**Edirol OCM R-44->Tascam DR-22WL->Sony TCD-D8


"Don't ever take an all or nothing attitude when it comes to making a difference
and being beautiful and making the world a beautiful place through your actions.
Every little bit is registered.  Every little bit.  So be as beautiful as you can as often as you can"

"It'll never be over, 'till we learn."
 
"My dream is to get a bus and get the band and just go coast to coast. Just about everything else except music, is anti-musical.  That's it.  Music's the thing." - Jeb Puryear

Offline andyjah

  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1992
Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #81 on: October 06, 2016, 04:52:34 PM »
i just can not figure this out... i feel like i'm doing all the math correctly but it's just not syncing.  i think it has to do with audacity only lets you go a few digits on the % change.
justink, make sure you are using 2.1.0, it utilizes all the significant digits in your multiplier

Versions after that are found to truncate your digits.  Why the team chose to break something that works is beyond any explanation

Is there any way to switch back to an older version? I am running the newest version and have been having the same issue as Justin

Offline morst

  • Archivist: Camper Van Beethoven & Cracker
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2477
  • Get in touch if you wanna record Cracker or CVB!
    • Soundscape Preservation Society
Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #82 on: October 07, 2016, 04:03:17 AM »
Here is a link to mac and windows versions of Audacity 2.1.0:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/audacity/files/audacity/2.1.0/

Is there any way to switch back to an older version? I am running the newest version and have been having the same issue as Justin
Teams: Neumann, Bay Area Tapers, Multitrack, Pioneertown Tapers, Mac Geeks, Cassette Masters, Poster Collectors, Alumni of teams St Louis, Upper Midwest & Milwaukee / Southern Wisco

Offline justink

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1733
  • Gender: Male
Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #83 on: October 07, 2016, 10:42:12 PM »
Yeah.  You have to paste the factor back in each time you use the tool, or it chops your digits off.

it won't let you paste...  lol
Mics:
DPA 4028 (wide cards)
DPA 4023 (cards)
Earthworks TC25 (omnis) 

Pres and a/d's:
Oade ACM Grace Lunatec V3 (FOR SALE - Make Offer)
bm2p+ Edirol UA-5 (FOR SALE - Make Offer)

Recorders:
Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Oade CM Edirol R-44 (FOR SALE - Make Offer)
Sony PCM‑M10

Offline dynamicalories

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 115
Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #84 on: May 18, 2017, 03:28:19 PM »
Anyone have directions for doing this in Adobe Audition CC? I've got an AUD source and SBD source recorded on 2 different recorders. I could always just use the directions here but was wondering if this might be easier in Audition.

Offline dynamicalories

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 115
Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #85 on: May 21, 2017, 08:02:38 AM »
Damn, this works perfectly in Audacity. Thanks @morst. I'm no longer going to fear using 2 recorders for SBD/AUD if need be.

Offline morst

  • Archivist: Camper Van Beethoven & Cracker
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2477
  • Get in touch if you wanna record Cracker or CVB!
    • Soundscape Preservation Society
Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #86 on: May 22, 2017, 02:22:32 AM »
Damn, this works perfectly in Audacity. Thanks @morst. I'm no longer going to fear using 2 recorders for SBD/AUD if need be.
Fantastic news!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

However, this sounds really cruel...
Yeah.  You have to paste the factor back in each time you use the tool, or it chops your digits off.
    :o
Teams: Neumann, Bay Area Tapers, Multitrack, Pioneertown Tapers, Mac Geeks, Cassette Masters, Poster Collectors, Alumni of teams St Louis, Upper Midwest & Milwaukee / Southern Wisco

Offline capnhook

  • All your llamas are belong to us....
  • Trade Count: (19)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3358
  • All your llamas are belong to us....
Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #87 on: May 22, 2017, 08:48:29 AM »
Yeah, stick with version 2.1.0 to avoid this, for now.....maybe some clear heads will fix this.
Proud member of the reality-based community

BSCS-L->JB-mod NAK CM-300 (CP-1,-3)->LSD2->CA CAFS-Omni->Sony ECM-907**Apogee MiniMe Rev. C->CA Ugly II->Oade line-mod SBM1**Edirol OCM R-44->Tascam DR-22WL->Sony TCD-D8


"Don't ever take an all or nothing attitude when it comes to making a difference
and being beautiful and making the world a beautiful place through your actions.
Every little bit is registered.  Every little bit.  So be as beautiful as you can as often as you can"

"It'll never be over, 'till we learn."
 
"My dream is to get a bus and get the band and just go coast to coast. Just about everything else except music, is anti-musical.  That's it.  Music's the thing." - Jeb Puryear

Offline nak700s

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
  • Gender: Male
Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #88 on: August 14, 2017, 02:58:04 PM »
Thank you...I can't wait to give this a try.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline Humbug

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1943
  • Gender: Male
  • Humbug Hum Rejection Unit
    • Trading site
Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #89 on: September 07, 2017, 02:44:22 AM »
This thread is great - I spent an hour trying to line up a two hour matrix last night in 2.1.3, and figured out 3DP wasn't enough. Came here, downloaded 2.1.0, and I'm back on with the task.

Has anyone informed the Audacity team? 
UK based taper: SPCMC2(AT831)>CA9100 / PIPsqueak>iRiver H140/Nomad JB3
AT933(853C)>CA9100 / PIPsqueak>iRiver H140/Nomad JB3/iRiver H108 CF mod/Sony PCM-M10

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Humbug66

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.242 seconds with 39 queries.
© 2002-2017 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF
Website Design by Foxtrot Media, Inc., a Baltimore Website Company