Topic: Sennheiser MKH8040

[Brian Skalinder]

Check out the sticky at the top of this forum for a link to the Stereophonic Zoom.  It may help you understand -- all else being equal -- how changing the mic configuration changes the sonic characteristics of the recording, mainly with respect to stereo imaging.  I tend not to restrict myself to specific "named" configurations (ORTF, DIN, NOS, etc.) and vary the configuration for each individual recording scenario.

[F.O.Bean]

I tend not to restrict myself to specific "named" configurations (ORTF, DIN, NOS, etc.) and vary the configuration for each individual recording scenario.

Same here, but 9 out of 10 times I'm DFC/FOB, so I can stick w/ DINa/DIN/NOS/etc....

[cashandkerouac]

well, i got to run the 8040s last night at the Chris Robinson Brotherhood show in Petaluma.  fun show, cool venue, all that good stuff... as for the mics, i am very happy with the result.  per the recommendation of another forum member familiar with the venue, i set up in the exact spot where i was referred (DFC at the first rail behind the dance floor), but band management thought my mic stand would be a distraction so they asked me to move to the rear of the floor.  i politely complied, but quickly realized that i was very proximate to the bar and the talkers.  oh well, what was i to do?  i pushed on, hoped that folks would chill, and kept my fingers crossed that the mics wouldn't pick up the distracting activity to my rear (and let me say, at times it was very distracting).

the mics were set up somewhere in between a DIN and ORTF configuration.  i intended to set mics at 90 degrees, but thought that the angle was too wide for my floor position and relation to the stacks.  so, i let the stage setup and my position on the floor dictate the mic positions.  i would have liked to keep my mics at 7'-8' feet, but ended up at about 10', which i thought was high.  i really wanted to avoid the excessive talking that was very close by and decided to take what the room and the crowd would give me.  going high with the stand seemed to be where i was being pushed.   

when i got home and first heard the recording i had two reactions.  1) i was psyched that i successfully navigated the talkers.  all those distracting talkers were significantly minimized (with a few minor and very brief exceptions that didn't amount to much at all).  that was very positive.  yeah, go cards!  2) on the other hand i was very disappointed.  the overall sound was very "boomy" ...way too much bass and not nearly the top end that i expected from these mics.  the recording was flat and somewhat two dimensional.  i thought i had royally "eff'd up". 

in an effort to salvage what i could from the master tracks, i applied some light EQ.  i took the bass down 6db at the very low end and increased the trebles 6db at the very high end.  what i ended up with was truly pleasing.  the recording opened up tremendously, took on a very representative 3-D feel of the room, and had that airy top end that i was hoping for while still maintaining good low end.  a night and day transformation with very little fiddling at all.  (i know.... some folks hate EQ.  i'll take your criticism without reaction.  it's cool if you hate me for post-production "fiddling")

the post-production debate aside, i'm surprised how much bass these 8040s pull down.  i'm still not sure if it was mostly my set-up or if the 8040s are just "bass monsters".  if so, should i opt to run the high pass filter on my recorder to compensate or just roll off the bass after the fact with some light post-production EQ?

all comments (good or bad) are welcomed and appreciated.  thanks.     
         

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the post-production debate aside, i'm surprised how much bass these 8040s pull down.  i'm still not sure if it was mostly my set-up or if the 8040s are just "bass monsters".  if so, should i opt to run the high pass filter on my recorder to compensate or just roll off the bass after the fact with some light post-production EQ?

Couple of things. I think the 8040s do pull down the bass, and the few recordings I've heard have been a little bass heavy or at least without presence if they havn't been touched. That said, what is the texture of the mic, and are you happy with that? I ask because you're right, you can EQ them, but getting a specific texture is much tougher without switching mic brands. Run them for a couple of shows and see what you think.

As for how to resolve this without changing mics; I'd do all of your adjustments in post. What you get from running HPF won't be what you're probably looking for most of the time since what your response curve looks like and what the rolloff curve looks like probably won't complement each other. You could always record an opener with HPF and the headliner without just to play around with it. I've done that before. Just be careful to make sure to turn it off if you're just playing, it's easy to forget (I've done that too, only to realize midset). Best of luck.

[cashandkerouac]

the post-production debate aside, i'm surprised how much bass these 8040s pull down.  i'm still not sure if it was mostly my set-up or if the 8040s are just "bass monsters".  if so, should i opt to run the high pass filter on my recorder to compensate or just roll off the bass after the fact with some light post-production EQ?

Couple of things. I think the 8040s do pull down the bass, and the few recordings I've heard have been a little bass heavy or at least without presence if they havn't been touched. That said, what is the texture of the mic, and are you happy with that? I ask because you're right, you can EQ them, but getting a specific texture is much tougher without switching mic brands. Run them for a couple of shows and see what you think.

As for how to resolve this without changing mics; I'd do all of your adjustments in post. What you get from running HPF won't be what you're probably looking for most of the time since what your response curve looks like and what the rolloff curve looks like probably won't complement each other. You could always record an opener with HPF and the headliner without just to play around with it. I've done that before. Just be careful to make sure to turn it off if you're just playing, it's easy to forget (I've done that too, only to realize midset). Best of luck.

based on the results of my first outing with the 8040s i'm inclined to address and bass issues in post production (just as you've suggested).  i really like the post-production results a lot.  regardless of the mic, i prefer to tweek the sound in post production.  for me that has always been the better option.  the post production version of my first outing with the MKH8040 was just what i was expecting. the raw file is a little lacking, but the end result is very good.  more ongoing experience with these mics will inform my methods and practices.   

[John Willett]

The MKH 8040 don't hype the bass at all - but they do go a lot lower than most directional mics.

The 8040 are good down to 30Hz, where most others start rolling off around 50Hz.

[landshark]

Two things: 

1) John, that rig is just dead sexy.  Awesome.  I'd love to know how to run a stereo pair down one line, can it be done with one XLR cable?  Where did you get that Y cable?  Custom made?

2) I'm not surprised the OP found the mics "boomy" - that's always been my reaction as well.  They are bass monsters.  Even with the roll off filter, I still usually need to do some EQ to get the sound the way I like it, particularly if I record in a close room.  The good thing is, you can always take some low end away.  IMHO these mics shine in part because of their low end pickup.  It's fixable in post if needed.  For many other mics that are think on the low end, you can't add it if it's missing in the first place!

[John Willett]

1) John, that rig is just dead sexy.  Awesome.  I'd love to know how to run a stereo pair down one line, can it be done with one XLR cable?  Where did you get that Y cable?  Custom made?

All Sennheiser 8000 series remote cables and extension tubes are already stereo.

Sennheiser *do* make a standard Y-cable, but it's pretty horrible.

I got a wireman to make my Y-cable for me - But I had to buy several 3m extensions and he cut them up and made the Y-cable for me.  I used 3 cables for this: two for the Y-cable and one for an output to XLR-5M.  I had a couple of spare ends: I had and XLR-3F put on eone and an XLR-5F on the other so I could use an MKH 800 or MKH 800 TWIN as well.

[ghellquist]

...  I'd love to know how to run a stereo pair down one line, can it be done with one XLR cable?  Where did you get that Y cable?  Custom made?  ...

Suggestion, what I have done for several years. A quad mic cable works perfectly as a stereo cable. 5-pin Xrl in each end. Short Y-cables in each end works best for me, 5-pin to two 3-pins. Not too diffucult to make, there are possibly people on the forum willing to help.
Gunnar

[John Willett]

...  I'd love to know how to run a stereo pair down one line, can it be done with one XLR cable?  Where did you get that Y cable?  Custom made?  ...

Suggestion, what I have done for several years. A quad mic cable works perfectly as a stereo cable. 5-pin Xrl in each end. Short Y-cables in each end works best for me, 5-pin to two 3-pins. Not too diffucult to make, there are possibly people on the forum willing to help.
Gunnar

Works well, but with increased crosstalk, of course, as it's a common screen.

[ghellquist]

Works well, but with increased crosstalk, of course, as it's a common screen.

I have thought about that. Tried to quantify it, not quite having the math to do it right. From a rule-o-thumb point it ought to be very little. We are talking signals less than a volt and a few milliamps with a source impedance of perhaps a k and a load impedance of a few k. The magnetic or electrostatic coupling should be low in a real-world lenght of cable. Not the whole story of course as the supply return in the screen could vary and influence. Anyway, I gave up trying to calculate it as it is a stereo pair and a small crosstalk would not be any major problem. Maybe one day I will try an experiment an measure it.

Gunnar

[John Willett]

Works well, but with increased crosstalk, of course, as it's a common screen.

I have thought about that. Tried to quantify it, not quite having the math to do it right. From a rule-o-thumb point it ought to be very little. We are talking signals less than a volt and a few milliamps with a source impedance of perhaps a k and a load impedance of a few k. The magnetic or electrostatic coupling should be low in a real-world lenght of cable. Not the whole story of course as the supply return in the screen could vary and influence. Anyway, I gave up trying to calculate it as it is a stereo pair and a small crosstalk would not be any major problem. Maybe one day I will try an experiment an measure it.

Gunnar

Agreed, crosstalk is not so important in a stereo pair as there is lots of natural crosstalk anyway.

Though I would not use this method to pair up signals from two spot mics that are not a stereo pair.

[AB52]

If in the U.S., check out this Sennheiser dealer in Kansas at 785-820-7243 (I am not connected to him, but I bought a pair of Sennheiser MKH8070 shotgun mics from him.  And they are great.)
I also have a pair of Sennheiser 8020s which I LOVE.  But for cards, I have DPA 4011s.  I do wish I had the 8040s.
Best,
AB

[DATPAT]

Hey guys i want to chime in. I have the 8050's. Seems like i'm the only one who uses the super cards. Anyhow i wanted to say 2 things. I got mine through sonic sense. The lady (Marks wife i forget her name) called their rep and they had a few single 50's floating around that were used a time or 2 for demostrations. These were apparently very lightly used. Anyway i got the whole package for $2100 including 3m extension cables and 2 complete mic's. If someone is looking they might want to give them a call. They said at the time (late 2009) there were a few floating around because apprently Sennheiser loaned a few of them to the Academy of Motion Picture for the Oscar's show. Not sure that would still be the case but it's worth a try. Also as far as the bass i can only speak for the 50's and say the response is incredibly accurate and most times if you get a boomy recording it is due to the sound present in the original performance. Another tid bit i'd like to mention is that i talked with Michael Grace(Grace Audio) at the Phish show in Telluride last year where he was running a descret 6 channel surround sound recording using one of his 8 channel pre/a-D units. He was using 5 Sennheiser MKH 8040's and one scheops mic. His comment to me was that the Sennheiser were so realistic and that 40 had the freq. response of a high quality omni condensor. I thought that was a perfect observation because i thought my Super cardiod's had more bass than most of the high quality cardiod's on the market.   Spread the word about the Sennheisers's I'm tired of Schoeps getting all the Glory!

[it-goes-to-eleven]

His comment to me was that the Sennheiser were so realistic and that 40 had the freq. response of a high quality omni condensor.

They use a different approach than most condensors.  They use EQ in the mic to modify the response.  Not everyone likes that approach.  I haven't tried'em.