Topic: Zoom H2N advice regarding concerts

[SMBTapes]

I know I'm extremely late on the topic, but I wanted to add my two cent for any newcomers that may stumble across this thread like I just did.

From my personal experience, I don't see why the Zoom H2n gets all the hate it does when using the internal mics.
Maybe it's because I listen to/record classic rock gigs, as opposed to the metal gigs mentioned by the original poster.
I've only recorded one gig so far, and it came out great.
There is also another recorder in the area that is on DIME and about 90% of his uploads rival soundboard quality with plenty of bass/low end.
Are people just not checking/adjusting the recording levels as soon as the show starts, resulting in brickwalled captures?

Now, I have heard a decent amount of subpar recordings with the Zoom H2...

Record a show side by side with someone running real mics and compare the results.  The internal mics WILL NOT make a soundboard quality recording of anything besides pink noise.

This was recorded using the Zoom H2n's internal mics. The phasing between channels is because it was windy (literally beach front, about 50-100 feet from the ocean) and the recorder wasn't using a windscreen, so disregard that aspect. I have hundreds of other Cheap Trick shows recorded with $500-1000 gear that come nowhere close to this quality: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPd2mWpf7t8

This example was recorded two rows from the lawn, so relatively far back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTgyLjBujZw

The Soapbox in Wilmington was notorious for shitty acoustics (at least for the shows I saw there) and even the recording in that venue turned out great: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj2CUdew8Nw

[SMBTapes]

I know I'm extremely late on the topic, but I wanted to add my two cent for any newcomers that may stumble across this thread like I just did.

From my personal experience, I don't see why the Zoom H2n gets all the hate it does when using the internal mics.
Maybe it's because I listen to/record classic rock gigs, as opposed to the metal gigs mentioned by the original poster.
I've only recorded one gig so far, and it came out great.
There is also another recorder in the area that is on DIME and about 90% of his uploads rival soundboard quality with plenty of bass/low end.
Are people just not checking/adjusting the recording levels as soon as the show starts, resulting in brickwalled captures?

Now, I have heard a decent amount of subpar recordings with the Zoom H2...

it's because portions of this board have a hard-on for expensive gear and love shitting on anyone who isn't running a $1000+ rig. see the 20+ page thread bashing recordings posted to DIME for more

Nice to see you here man, I've seen you around DIME, hubs, etc.

[Marshall7]

Get your hearing checked.

[daspyknows]

Sounds soundboard quality if I turn my volume to 0.   

[SMBTapes]

Get your hearing checked.

No thanks, I'm sure the doctor I would visit wouldn't be expensive enough, meaning he wouldn't be a "real" doctor.
You guys act like the Zoom creates nothing but white noise, and are completely giving the wrong impression and discouraging those new to the hobby that want to try it out with an inexpensive recorder.
Do you guys somehow feel threatened that with today's technology anyone with $200 can create very listenable recordings?

microphone - noun - a device into which people speak or sing in order to record their voices or to make them sound louder
It's funny how you guys throw the "real mic" terminology around.
What exactly is a "real" mic?
Nowhere in the Websters dictionary definition for "microphone" does it imply that a real microphone is determined by how much it cost.
Nice try at attempting to be an "elite" and boosting your ego while simultaneously attempting to make others with less expensive gear feel inferior, but you can stop now.

I forgot why I stopped coming to this forum, but thanks for quickly reminding me.
It's OK to have differing opinions, especially when they are presented respectfully.
But to be short, sarcastic, and condescending, with an approach that your opinion should be considered fact, is completely uncalled for and unnecessary.

[daspyknows]

Get your hearing checked.

No thanks, I'm sure the doctor I would visit wouldn't be expensive enough, meaning he wouldn't be a "real" doctor.
You guys act like the Zoom creates nothing but white noise, and are completely giving the wrong impression and discouraging those new to the hobby that want to try it out with an inexpensive recorder.
Do you guys somehow feel threatened that with today's technology anyone with $200 can create very listenable recordings?

microphone - noun - a device into which people speak or sing in order to record their voices or to make them sound louder
It's funny how you guys throw the "real mic" terminology around.
What exactly is a "real" mic?
Nowhere in the Websters dictionary definition for "microphone" does it imply that a real microphone is determined by how much it cost.
Nice try at attempting to be an "elite" and boosting your ego while simultaneously attempting to make others with less expensive gear feel inferior, but you can stop now.

I forgot why I stopped coming to this forum, but thanks for quickly reminding me.
It's OK to have differing opinions, especially when they are presented respectfully.
But to be short, sarcastic, and condescending, with an approach that your opinion should be considered fact, is completely uncalled for and unnecessary.

With microphones (like everything else)  there are different levels of quality that may or may not be related to cost.  If you can tell me there is no difference in quality between those recordings posted on youtube and a recording made with better gear i.e. external mics and the internal zoomie mics then you do need your ears checked.  Personally, I am not willing to listen to a recording like those posted just as I am not willing to go to McDonalds if I want a steak or drink a glass of Mad Dog 20 20 if I want a glass of wine.  If those are your standards, that's fine but don't tell me there is no difference.   

[Humbug]

I'm as big a fan of Southern Culture On The Skids as the next man, but if you want to hear what even budget equipment will sound like, with just a little more work (separate mics, getting them up in the air), here you go:

https://archive.org/details/scots2011-03-25.at933

Not trying to put you off...but you're only halfway to making recordings that everyone can enjoy!

[Marshall7]

You guys act like the Zoom creates nothing but white noise, and are completely giving the wrong impression

And you are giving the impression that you're making "soundboard quality" recordings using the internal mics on a recorder that is widely considered not the best product of its kind.
 

[DigiGal]

SMBTapes, since your final destination is the Utubes, the forum is right you are wasting your time with the H2N.  Surprised no one has suggested that Zoom has a Q2HD which combines high definition video and stereo audio recording all in one unit.  You could get rid of both your current video recorder and the H2N to pick up this Q2HD that will do it all ! ! !

[splumer]

Reading through this thread, I got an idea. Why not do an experiment? Put a Zoom H2 with internals on the same stand as a mid-grade set of mics in the sweet spot and compare the results side by side. Unless that has been done. Anyone want to loan me an H2 so I can do the experiment?

Then, for the real test, we can post copies of both recordings, unlabelled as to which was which. Everyone has a listen and we decide which was the Zoom and which was the better rig. I'd be willing to do the work. (And I might be able to borrow an H2 locally)

[eddie20850]

Tough love, but here it goes. Throw the Zoom in the trash (or sell it on eBay). Don't be a zoomie if you really want to tape. Buy an M10, a battery box, and some B3s. If you skip the battery box for now, you can still make good tapes. One of our resident cable makers can help with terminating the B3s in a mini plug and can do the mod for high SPL situations.

Since I have an M10 and a show I wanna tape(full disclosure, I'm not a taper, just mostly got patches in 80s/90s), a few questions.  Trade Friendly band Wishbone Ash playing Ram's Head in Annapolis in Sept.  It's possible I could get a board patch according to DIME post of a W.A. show.  I was thinking of the M10 on the table.  Now considering bringing my DA-P1 for the board patch.  Or taking this post suggestions of getting a battery box, B3s and using that at my table.  I taped Bruce Cockburn at same venue on the table straight to the external M10 mics and it came out ok, but thats acoustic.  I now gather using just the M10 stand alone may not be the best idea.  What about getting board patch into the M10?   It's possible I could borrow mics (Neumanns) from a taper friend.  Not sure what to do.

[acidjack]

Tough love, but here it goes. Throw the Zoom in the trash (or sell it on eBay). Don't be a zoomie if you really want to tape. Buy an M10, a battery box, and some B3s. If you skip the battery box for now, you can still make good tapes. One of our resident cable makers can help with terminating the B3s in a mini plug and can do the mod for high SPL situations.

Since I have an M10 and a show I wanna tape(full disclosure, I'm not a taper, just mostly got patches in 80s/90s), a few questions.  Trade Friendly band Wishbone Ash playing Ram's Head in Annapolis in Sept.  It's possible I could get a board patch according to DIME post of a W.A. show.  I was thinking of the M10 on the table.  Now considering bringing my DA-P1 for the board patch.  Or taking this post suggestions of getting a battery box, B3s and using that at my table.  I taped Bruce Cockburn at same venue on the table straight to the external M10 mics and it came out ok, but thats acoustic.  I now gather using just the M10 stand alone may not be the best idea.  What about getting board patch into the M10?   It's possible I could borrow mics (Neumanns) from a taper friend.  Not sure what to do.

If you don't know what you're doing, borrowing "some Neumanns" is going to have a steeper learning curve and a lot more gear involved. The board patch will require you to have an accommodating sound engineer at the club who will be willing to set that up for you; it'll also require you to have the proper cables, which will mean you need XLR cables with XLR-M to 1/4" male and XLR-F to RCA adapters to go into the board (depending on the inputs) plus dual XLR-F to stereo mini to plug into the M10's line in. Bad news is, depending on many factors, that SBD feed may not sound like it does in the room; in most smallish rooms the feed is light on stuff that you can hear easily in the audience, like guitars (because their amps play loud).

Buying some nice mics like B3s or Church Audio plus a battery box and running them into the deck is relatively the easiest; it's the same as using the internal mics except that you plug that stuff into the M10's line in. Get the mics as high up as possible, aim them at the stacks, etc. etc.

The lowest cost option is to buy the necessary cables and adapters for the SBD patch; the option least likely to get screwed up is the buying mics option. It doesn't really matter. Just give a whirl and have fun. It's likely that a first time out won't go well, but you'll learn something. If it does go well, then more power to you!

Also: The M10's internals aren't ideal, but they aren't so horrible either. If you're at a table nice and up close (but not too close, if the band has vocals that come from the PA) they'll do alright. But yes, as others already said, you'll make much better recordings doing something else.

[Marshall7]

And of course, you can't run Neumanns straight into the M10 anyhow.

[bryonsos]

Thanks for the giggle and trip down memory lane!

[fmaderjr]

the c11s are nothing i'd ever write home about, based on the sample of zack abovepgrades sometime.

IMO CA-11's are excellent sounding microphones (even the original version) especially for the money. Get them in a sweet spot and you can make great recordings with them.