Topic: Binaural mics Roland CS-10EM vs SoundProfessionals MS-TFB-2 and other

[Dave_Scream]

Hello.
Im newbie but have a long dream to make field recordings, but I was shure that portable setup with ~middle quality will be very expensive.
Few days ago I found some amazing binaural recordings and wanted to found how much equipment can cost. It was surprising to me that middle quality binaural mics are not so expensive and overall equipment too.

So I want to buy binaural microphone for about 100-190$. and other equipment: Recorder(+maybe ? Preamp+Battery module ?) for about 300$  so whole budget is 480$ max.

I found many different models of the binaural microphones on the market - Roland, SoundProfessionals, ChurchAudio, AudioReality, CoreSound.

The most part of this binaurals are for use with clips, so they are not IN ears, they outside ears. It is not good for me, because I dont want other people look at me, and they are not true binaurals.

What microphone for binaural records is better? I found only 3 "in-ear" models:

Roland CS-10EM (~110$)
SoundProfessionals MS-TFB-2 (150$)
SoundMan OKM II (~180$)

What microphone is better? I want to record not loud ambience, and I dont have too much money to buy big-cost recorder (maximum 300$) so I think that microphone must have smallest sound to noise ratio and biggest sensitivity, because my recorder will be not so good.

Another question is maybe it will be more effective to buy some PreAmp + low-cost recorder? instead of middle cost recorder? but preamps are so expensive (ChurchAudio will cost ~150$ !). So on 300$ budget I can buy  PreAmp 150$ and recorder for 150$ ? can this be better than 300$ Recorder?

any recommendations? please

[Dave_Scream]

Here I maked excel table in google docs:  Binaural microphone list

I found SoundMan OKM II Classic (not studio)  specs very interest!

For 180$ I can buy OKM II + A3 battery adapter INCLUDED!
And Sensitivity of OKM II is amazing = -10dB !!!!   SoundProfessionals master series MS-TFB-2 have sensitivity only -32dB.

[Dave_Scream]

I listened some examples of OKM II and Soundprofessioanls  and Roland CS-10EM.
And stereo positioning of Rolands are the most pleasant for me... 

look here the roland is very good stereo and no noise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTgl_BrFnZE
but OKM II sounds emm more flat!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21c7PBDBfko
Sound professionals emm not so good too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNBFE7KD8ZE\

But it was different places and human ears... so hard to compare ((( dunno what to choose. Roland is very good, but I dont like that they are cheaper...

[taper666]

I had the Roland CS-10EM for a short time but sent it back because it is extremly sensitve, if you want to "wear" it you will hear EVERY move of the cable. Very annoying especially if you want to record ambient sounds. I would buy a Sony-PCM-10 recorder which is best value for your money...

[Dave_Scream]

I had the Roland CS-10EM for a short time but sent it back because it is extremly sensitve, if you want to "wear" it you will hear EVERY move of the cable. Very annoying especially if you want to record ambient sounds. I would buy a Sony-PCM-10 recorder which is best value for your money...

Thank you for your answer (I thought this forum dead).
Strange that Roland is so bad in your words, because its sensitivity is lower then SoundProfessionals MS-TFB-2 and SoundMan OKM II.
It have only -40dB  against -32dB and -10dB.   I think this "cable-noise" can be because of plactic capsule. so bad body construction. And I donot hear this cable-noise in records on youtube... dunno why.

In your sign on this forum you do not have "in-ear" binaurals, so you prefer to use "out-ear" ones. why?

What advantages Sony-PCM-10 have? why it is good recorder? what advantages in compare with Roland R-05 or Roland R-09HR ?

[taper666]

And I donot hear this cable-noise in records on youtube... dunno why.
if it is mounted on a bar you won't hear any cable-noise of course...

I like the M10 for many reasons. It's built very solid, it's small, mics are integrated, very good internal preamp, simple self-explaining menue, recording up to 20 hours with one set of batteries, huge storage space (internal 4GB & sd-card), hold-function while you can still adjust levels with the wheel...

[Dave_Scream]

And I donot hear this cable-noise in records on youtube... dunno why.
if it is mounted on a bar you won't hear any cable-noise of course...

About Roland CS-10EM. In this example "cable-noise" you speaking about  is present? can you hear it here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTgl_BrFnZE
what you can say about this example?

well anyway I unerstand your opinion... Roland have cable-noise... 
So need to buy Soundprofessionals MS-TFB-2  and Sony M10 because it have long battery live, hold function, good user interface, and good preamp.

You said that preamp is good? Why?  you compared it in real life with some other devices? or you saw some good review?

[taper666]

The "Recording Gear" section is full of discussion about this recorder, maybe you'd like to start here:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145955.0
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=154969.0

The youtube clip you linked seems to be sth like a promo clip by Roland, I'm sure they didn't shake around the cable while recording the samples... :-)

[acidjack]

In my opinion-

- outboard preamps for small mics are unnecessary/BS
- if you want in-ear, the Soundman OKM-IIR are best (is this for rock music?)

Get a Roland R-05 + Soundman OKM-IIR and any battery box it requires and you are set.

[earmonger]

Dave, it sounds like you are not a native English speaker and I'm guessing you are in Europe. Although I have a Sony PCM-M10 and love it, if you are on a tight budget in Europe many people have recommended the Roland R-05 as an equally good choice. There is price difference of $100+ between the PCM-M10 in the US and in Europe. If you know anyone traveling to the US it would be worthwhile having them buy the PCM-M10 here.

As for mics, the Soundman OKM are in a class way above the Soundprofessionals. 

If you are going to record quiet ambient sounds you are going to have to be very careful about cable noise, which means you may have to not only lodge the mics in your ears but make sure there is no other place they can rustle. It may take some experimenting.

Is stealth the only reason you want binaurals, or do you prefer the in-ear sound? Are you only going to be playing back through earphones (which is really the optimum for binaurals--they can sound odd via speakers). Because there are lot of choices for mics that are smaller than a fingertip, and not too obtrusive.

[rocksuitcase]

Dave, in the other binaural thread you posted in, I put a link to a discussion from gearslutz which they discuss choosing binaural mics. The Soundman OKMs get rave reviews there, and most of them are doing ambient recordings.
Also in that thread is a great discussion of the good/bad aspects of in ear vs clipped to head binaurals. IMO, having 2-3 years of experience using the Sennheiser MKE 2002's, unless you are really going for stealth concert recording, in ear vs clipped to head/glasses makes very little difference.  Of course, playback with most binaural recordings is best done with headphones or earphones.
Good luck. I feel a $480 budget should get you close to what you want. Start with good mics (the best you can afford), that is the most important link in any audio recording.

[taper666]

M10 and R05 are almost same price in Germany...

R05: 199 Euro (http://www.thomann.de/de/roland_r_05.htm)
M10: 205 Euro (http://www.thomann.de/de/sony_pcmm10_anthrazit.htm)

[Dave_Scream]

- outboard preamps for small mics are unnecessary/BS

Can you please give a little explanation why you have opinion that preamps for small mics are unnecessary? because my imagination says that smaller membrane give smaller voltage per barr so the output voltage level for small membrane is more closer to noise hiss level than big membrane microphones and because of it preamp for small mics more nesessary?

- if you want in-ear, the Soundman OKM-IIR are best (is this for rock music?)
Get a Roland R-05 + Soundman OKM-IIR and any battery box it requires and you are set.

I want record some ambience sounds, field recordings, so not loud sounds or rock concerts, and OKM II classic version is more good for me, and I even think that I dont need battery module... but maybe for thunderstorm I will need battery module...

OKM-II have good specs (like soundprofessionals master series) plus it have very high sensitivity, but I didnt found yet any examples of OKM-II recordings that I liked..

[Dave_Scream]

As for mics, the Soundman OKM are in a class way above the Soundprofessionals. 

Whe OKM are class way above SP?  Are you speaking about their much more sensitivity? (SP have -42db  OKM have -10db!) 
maybe I dont like OKM-II records because of their unreal sensitivity? their sound image looks unreal because of so high sensitivity? sound to expanded..  I need to find more examples of OKM-II.

Also some my friend sayed that OKM have not so good bass and are noisy.

Is stealth the only reason you want binaurals, or do you prefer the in-ear sound? Are you only going to be playing back through earphones (which is really the optimum for binaurals--they can sound odd via speakers). Because there are lot of choices for mics that are smaller than a fingertip, and not too obtrusive.

Yes I want some kind of my life recordings)) And when I will wach videos of my past life  need the maximum reality effect.  And I think true-in-ear binaurals is better for that effect.  And stealth is important too because I maybe will go without camera and record humans noise in some place.. market for example or beach or bus atmosphere to record my everyday "work-to-home" trip ))  all this need stealthy, because peoples in bus will not unrerstand mics clipped to my ears ))