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Author Topic: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.  (Read 4640 times)

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Offline brianp

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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2015, 02:42:16 PM »
I think they should call it the Datamax sort of like their Betamax.   :P

Offline hi and lo

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2015, 01:27:17 PM »
This should be posted on NottheOnion.
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Offline cybergaloot

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2015, 10:08:09 AM »
What a ripoff! It reminds me of the audio review I read comparing the sound quality of hard drives. More smoke and mirrors BS.
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stevetoney

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2015, 11:22:35 AM »
What a ripoff! It reminds me of the audio review I read comparing the sound quality of hard drives. More smoke and mirrors BS.

I'm not that tech saavy about this stuff, but when media has bad sectors, doesn't chkdsk kick in to tell the os not to use those sectors on the media or is this just on a harddrive?  Besides, it seems to me that non-audio data needs to be more bit perfect than audio data, otherwise software won't run right and such.  If bits are missing from an audio recording, I suppose a sample or two might appear as digi-noise, but the chances of actually hearing it seem like they wouldn't be very good to me.

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2015, 11:59:42 AM »
A lot of folks are expressing knee-jerk reactions about this, and then having to eat some crow.

Memory cards generate noise in operation.  That noise can interfere with other circuitry. Engineering a card to minimize that noise is potentially a viable solution for some applications.

Here are some posts from 2013 where folks are fighting this very issue.

http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?14285-STOP-THE-UHF-INTERFERENCE-FROM-YOUR-GO-PRO-CAMERA%28s%29

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stevetoney

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2015, 04:28:17 PM »
For my part is this discussion, I'm happy to eat crow.  But before I'll drink from that glass of kool-aid and shell out for something that looks and feels like snake oil, Sony needs to present the technical information to justify taking that sip.

DF81

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2015, 05:00:18 PM »
Eh, I've purchased a couple $100 64GB SanDisk Extreme cards for video, but they are necessary for recording in RAW or the higher Pro Res settings.  If you aren't using a fast enough card my camera displays an "!" over the recording light which means frames are dropping.  I don't see this as an issue with most SD cards recording audio unless it's an insane sample rate i.e. more than 192kHZ.  Also, most SD cards are misleading on the package.  They advertise the read rate (which is almost always much higher than the write rate) and the write rate is either in small print on the rear packaging or not mentioned at all (which means I would avoid that brand).
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 05:02:39 PM by DF81 »

stevetoney

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2015, 08:51:20 AM »
Eh, I've purchased a couple $100 64GB SanDisk Extreme cards for video, but they are necessary for recording in RAW or the higher Pro Res settings.  If you aren't using a fast enough card my camera displays an "!" over the recording light which means frames are dropping.  I don't see this as an issue with most SD cards recording audio unless it's an insane sample rate i.e. more than 192kHZ.  Also, most SD cards are misleading on the package.  They advertise the read rate (which is almost always much higher than the write rate) and the write rate is either in small print on the rear packaging or not mentioned at all (which means I would avoid that brand).

See that's why I don't understand about this whole issue.  Your comment is about card speed, but they're marketing based on card noise.  They're saying the cards generate noise and this affects card efficiency.  (I assume they mean electronic noise.)

OK, so lets assume that this isn't bull.  The first question I'd have, what am I getting for the extra $100.  What makes that card better...what did they do to the design of that card to make it immune to this noise they say affects my card noise performance?

Next question...has anyone ever actually heard a noisy SD card?  I can't say I've ever heard it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happened.  I have heard plenty of people say they have a slow card, so yeah lost frames on video and drop-outs on audio are the result...but that's not noise.   I could see where a noise could degrade a video signal (lines on the screen?), but I can't say I've ever experienced random digi-noise on my cards.

If we don't hear any noise issues on our existing media, then what is the real issue here?  Why would I want to spend $100 extra dollars on media that results in literally no perceptible benefit to me? 

I could see someone's response being, well this isn't marketed to you, it's marketed to studio's and high end, but I'd still have the same questions if I was a high end user.  Is Sony just using a two price concept (similar to hospitals that charge one price for direct billing to a consumer and another when insurance covers the service), where they're marketing the exact same product under two different product titles where pro-sumers are apt to pay one price and consumers will pay the lower price.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 09:00:47 AM by tonedeaf »

Offline cybergaloot

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2015, 09:25:56 AM »
The link to supposed problems with SD card noise refers to RF signals which are way off in the inaudible range. Does it affect the recorder being able to write 1's and 0's? I highly doubt it and as has been said, I've never heard a problem even with slow cheap cards. One word of caution though, some counterfeit cards are being sold but usually the problem is that they say they are some capacity above 8GB but it real practice they only hold 8.

In a studio I doubt they are recording to an SD card. Usually there it's to a hard drive though that may be changing to SSD instead.
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Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2015, 07:01:59 PM »
I'd love to find a place that was willing to let me compare one of these to a normal card to see if I could hear a difference (which I severely doubt that I could).

I tried that at Best Buy with their $100 HDMI cable vs. my $4 one...they weren't interested.
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stevetoney

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2015, 12:59:39 PM »
In a studio I doubt they are recording to an SD card. Usually there it's to a hard drive though that may be changing to SSD instead.

FWIW, the high end recorder in this link looks to operate from SD card only, so that's where I was coming from when I made that earlier comment.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=171706.0

Regardless, I suspect alot of high end recorders use some sort of flash media as a parallel to a hard drive for file transfers and such.  Sound devices 633 and 664 don't have HDDs, though their new 64 track rack mount recorder is all HDD based with no flash media slots. 

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2015, 02:35:41 PM »
In a studio I doubt they are recording to an SD card. Usually there it's to a hard drive though that may be changing to SSD instead.

FWIW, the high end recorder in this link looks to operate from SD card only, so that's where I was coming from when I made that earlier comment.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=171706.0

Regardless, I suspect alot of high end recorders use some sort of flash media as a parallel to a hard drive for file transfers and such.  Sound devices 633 and 664 don't have HDDs, though their new 64 track rack mount recorder is all HDD based with no flash media slots.

JoeCo recorders record out via USB to hard drives. At least all the ones I've looked at. You could use a thumb drive or a SD to USB adapter I guess. Sound Devices units are not aimed at studio work, they are aimed at field recording for movies and TV. That is their main market. They dump the contents of the card to a computer for editing so its temporary storage for a limited number of tracks. Studios operate differently and other than a few that still use all analog tape, most run ProTools, Logic X, Soundforge Pro on a purpose built computer with lots of RAM and save to dual drives for redundancy. If they use an SD card, its to save a rough mix for someone to take with them. Now that I've said that, watch the next issues of Tape OP and Mix magazines come out with articles about using SD cards as primary storage.

Just as an aside, I just bought a Denon rack mount stereo recorder that will record to SD card and USB simultaneously. My rack (for now) has 24 channel to an HD24, stereo off the board to a MacBook via USB and a backup recording to my R-44 (soon to be replaced by the Denon).

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stevetoney

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2015, 03:33:18 PM »
Now that I've said that, watch the next issues of Tape OP and Mix magazines come out with articles about using SD cards as primary storage.

;)

Just making sure you know that I wasn't debating your earlier point with the response I made earlier today as much as just pointing out that there's probably a market out there amongst the 'elite' users that would shell out $160 for a magic fairy gold dust SD card without any proof of whether or not the gold dust works.

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2015, 03:59:15 PM »
Is it any better than cf media used in SD 702?  From what I read, CF has faster write time and doesn't take a memory set like SD cards generally.  Not that I'm against SD cards, but that existing CF cards may still be superior?

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2015, 05:04:25 PM »
Now that I've said that, watch the next issues of Tape OP and Mix magazines come out with articles about using SD cards as primary storage.

;)

Just making sure you know that I wasn't debating your earlier point with the response I made earlier today as much as just pointing out that there's probably a market out there amongst the 'elite' users that would shell out $160 for a magic fairy gold dust SD card without any proof of whether or not the gold dust works.

Could be, could be ... but I doubt it. But then I could be wrong as well. It wouldn't be the first time.
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Offline kubacheck

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2015, 05:10:21 PM »
to me, this is a lot like the debate about mic's in another thread.... perhaps the "costs 5X more" card does sound better, but does it sound 5X better??....  I wasn't complaining about the cards I'm using now, so I'd have no reason to buy the new high end card, but that's just my personal choice based on what works for me.....

Offline Gene Poole

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2015, 09:47:43 AM »
Any device that utilizes an SD card with a file system has buffered, checksummed, CRC'd, RLL'd, the datastream long before it ever gets written to the SD media (which itself having a filesystem driver, manages buffering, checksumming, CRCing, etc).  In other words, this is snake oil at its finest.

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2015, 11:37:44 AM »
Any device that utilizes an SD card with a file system has buffered, checksummed, CRC'd, RLL'd, the datastream long before it ever gets written to the SD media (which itself having a filesystem driver, manages buffering, checksumming, CRCing, etc).  In other words, this is snake oil at its finest.

Snake oil, eh? Have you ever used 433Mhz transmitter/receiver hardware while logging to an SD card? It may sound obscure, but it is a very common scenario.

Did you read the links I posted?  This is about preventing the SD card from interfering with other devices and circuits (regardless of whether those devices or circuits send data to the SD card). Not everyone uses SD cards in the same way, or for the same application.

I once had an SD 722 on loan that would produce measureable electrical noise on my recordings whenever data was flushed to the hard drive (at 24/44.1k that was every six seconds).  I noticed it when I was doing noise floor measurements of my Schoeps. Device noise, whether from hard drives or other storage media, is a very real thing.

Just because it may not apply your specific use - or you have never checked for it - does not make it snake oil.  Not everyone can install their own shielding around SD card slots. For those who cannot, and other situations where shielding is not a good solution, this may be a good alternative.

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Offline hi and lo

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2015, 01:29:16 PM »

Just because it may not apply your specific use - or you have never checked for it - does not make it snake oil.  Not everyone can install their own shielding around SD card slots. For those who cannot, and other situations where shielding is not a good solution, this may be a good alternative.

This is an interesting phenomenon that has never affected me, so I appreciate being educated, but no, sorry... I don't agree.

The issue is one of marketing, which is pure snake oil. If the card is meant to solve a practical issue of noise interference, then that's how it should be marketed, but that's not what they're doing. They're marketing this to "audiophiles" as "premium sound," presumably as an accessory to their shit-tastic $1,200 walkman. All things being equal, this card cannot improve audio quality; it can only prevent errors and noise interference.
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Offline audBall

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2015, 01:47:44 PM »
Perhaps there was good intention from an R&D perspective (in regards to IGTE mentioned), but then the marketeers finagled about afterwards?

Offline Gene Poole

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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2015, 02:18:11 PM »
Any device that utilizes an SD card with a file system has buffered, checksummed, CRC'd, RLL'd, the datastream long before it ever gets written to the SD media (which itself having a filesystem driver, manages buffering, checksumming, CRCing, etc).  In other words, this is snake oil at its finest.

Snake oil, eh? Have you ever used 433Mhz transmitter/receiver hardware while logging to an SD card? It may sound obscure, but it is a very common scenario.

Did you read the links I posted?  This is about preventing the SD card from interfering with other devices and circuits (regardless of whether those devices or circuits send data to the SD card). Not everyone uses SD cards in the same way, or for the same application.

I once had an SD 722 on loan that would produce measureable electrical noise on my recordings whenever data was flushed to the hard drive (at 24/44.1k that was every six seconds).  I noticed it when I was doing noise floor measurements of my Schoeps. Device noise, whether from hard drives or other storage media, is a very real thing.

Just because it may not apply your specific use - or you have never checked for it - does not make it snake oil.  Not everyone can install their own shielding around SD card slots. For those who cannot, and other situations where shielding is not a good solution, this may be a good alternative.

Sorry, I got into this thread late; I didn't follow your links.  I'll go back and check them out.

So your saying these SD cards are marketed as producing less spurious emissions?  I didn't see that in any of the sony claims.  I would think this would be dependent on the hardware the SD is plugged into more than the SD itself.



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Re: Sony releases special memory cards for music. Costs 5x the regular price.
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2015, 08:03:44 PM »
The press release I read for this didn't have the "for premium sound" label. That is pretty cheesy! :P
I'll bet the engineers who developed it hate that marketing.

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