Topic: MK4, MK4V, MK41, MK41V: which one to choose?

[MLKLuke]

hi all,
I'm moving to a Schoeps active stealth setup. at the moment I can only afford 1 pair of caps. Reading around on the board it seems like MK41 is the most popular choice if you only have one shot but I also read a lot of positive comments about MK4, MK4V and MK41V. I heard recordings made with all those different capsules and cardioid ones are probably the best ones in the sweet spot in a good sounding venue but 90% of the times I tape in average sounding venues pointing at side-stage stacks because soundboard zone is usually way too crowded

about the V ones in particular I read some comments about their particular side addressing and that this could be an advantage when used in a hat (I already have a kangol ready to customize) because easier to create e good angle between the caps. they're a bit longer than MK4/MK41 on the other side...

So please could you post here your suggestions and opinions about what you would do and possibly send me some pictures of your setups in email (I understand you do no want to put them here in public)? email: mlkmuzik@gmail.com

thanks in advance for your help, hope to find a good pair of caps and test them on the field

[daspyknows]

I have had MK4's for 20+ years and in the past year I grabbed a pair of MK41's.  I only run stealth with actives and an NBox platinum or RBox.  I generally run the 4's except if I am further back or expect a crowd of asshats.  I personally think the form factor of the 4's and 41's easier for me than the V's.  I'd consider looking at the 5's as well.  Switchable between cards and omnis.  I have run both in a hat.  Here is Buddy Guy 4's with nbox and 41's with rbox from front of balcony at Davies Symphony Hall.


4's
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php&id=537224
41's
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php&id=537225

[perks]

I find the 41's are far more susceptible to phasing issues when going stealth and will typically run them in rooms on a stand in a room with poor acoustics.

[daspyknows]

Or if you really don't move.   .    I do agree with you, though definitely more phasing with 41's

[blg]

I've run 41's stealth from about every possible position from back of the room to head in stack and think they are the best possible cap if limited to one pair.  I haven't had any phasing issues and they pick up less surrounding crowd noise than the 4's.

[acidjack]

I use hats much less than these guys, but I did choose to get both series of V caps in part because of the ease of running that way. I've done so with both the MK41V and MK4V (I also think the MK4V, which its HF bump, is a better overall microphone for distance miking of rock bands than the MK4).

The 41/41V have outstanding sound, much better than competitors, but as noted they will phase more due to the narrower pattern, and they will be SLIGHTLY thinner than the MK4/4V.

It really depends what you do. I used the 41V in a hat at Radio City and was really happy with the result. However, I am rarely at venues that large. If you mostly go to GA shows where you can get reasonably close, then I think the MK4V is the best bet.

[MLKLuke]

forgot to add that 90% of the times I tape from GA being it stadiums, arenas or small clubs

for those who said that use the V ones in a hat (but also who just use the NON vertical ones)...is it possible to have some pics in private showing how you place and fix them in the hat? it would be very helpful

thanks in advance and for the ones who did not replied yet...please add your opinions of use, I value and appreciate them a lot 

[acidjack]

forgot to add that 90% of the times I tape from GA being it stadiums, arenas or small clubs

for those who said that use the V ones in a hat (but also who just use the NON vertical ones)...is it possible to have some pics in private showing how you place and fix them in the hat? it would be very helpful

thanks in advance and for the ones who did not replied yet...please add your opinions of use, I value and appreciate them a lot 

Think about an ORTF or DIN kwon bar, with the V series mics stuck in it, but pointed in the opposite of the direction the kwon bar would point them in if they weren't vertically-oriented caps... Kind of like ... this \_______/ (if the sound source were below this line)

[Sebastian]

I'm in the same position as MLKLuke. In the market for my first pair of Schoeps capsules. Since I'm primarily taping in small clubs, I'm probably getting the MK4 capsules unless I can get a sweet deal on the MK41. I have spent the last few weeks comparing recordings made with different capsules. But then again, most of the audible differences could be due to the different recording situations and/or post-processing. Has anyone ever run a side-by-side comparison of the MK4 with MK41 capsules (or of the MK4 with the MK4V)? If yes, I'd like to hear it.

[Craig T]

Having used the mk4, mk5, mk41, mk4v, mk41v and mk8... if I had to have one cap, I'd pick the mk4v as the most versatile. I'm also a huge fan of the mk4, but the side address of the 4v is easier for me to  .  The hypers are nice, but I like the low end of the cards better and would rather find a creative way to get the cards in an ideal location rather than use hypers from a compromised location.

[MLKLuke]

thanks for all your opinions...

I think I will go with MK4 in the end...but someone has to sell a pair of them to me 

[Gutbucket]

I realize that it is not how many tend to use them around here, but one of the qualities which makes Schoeps such valuable recording tools is that there is little need to keep polar-pattern and the 'tonal flavor' inherently linked to one another.  Schoeps mics are of such outstanding quality that one is able to overlook the tonality differences between models when selecting a pickup pattern (and end-address or side-address format), and compensate for their slight differences in tonality using EQ.  That's not always applicable with other makes of microphone, and leveraging that can make for a powerful advantage.

[Scooter123]

I have both mk4 and mk41s. 

I prefer the mk4s.  They are more versatile.  I will run the mk41s in heavy crowd noise situations or when seated in the front row of the balcony.  But 80% of the time I run the mk4s. 

This assumes a hat rig by the way.  I'm not sure how an Mk4v would work in a stealth situation. 

[acidjack]

I have both mk4 and mk41s. 

I prefer the mk4s.  They are more versatile.  I will run the mk41s in heavy crowd noise situations or when seated in the front row of the balcony.  But 80% of the time I run the mk4s. 

This assumes a hat rig by the way.  I'm not sure how an Mk4v would work in a stealth situation.

The various V- series capsules do quite nicely in stealth situations.. it's more about mounting preference than anything else. On sound, of course, with the MK4V you get more built-in HF emphasis versus the flat MK4, but that difference can be adjusted in post.

[chk]

over the years i've used mk4, mk4v, mk41, mk21, mk2S.  overall, if i had to choose one single set of caps, hands down would be the mk41.  they really are usable in any situation.  yes they have slightly less bass than you'd get from mk4 and the sub-card varieties, but the bass is still very smooth and full (plus you could always add a bit in post).   i find the benefits of their directional properties more than outweigh the slight con of a bit more bass rolloff.  Plus, as with any directional schoeps capsule, they are very smooth off-axis.

for the stuff most of us record, i find the mk41 does the best job at eliminating what we don't want to hear (chatter, reflections, etc).  i've found it's the best choice for use in sub-optimal settings, and still shines even when used onstage, or in a perfect room in the sweet spot. 

Another potential benefit to consider, for PAS-style setups, which are typically going to be smaller mic angles, the mk41 allows you to run those smaller angles with less spacing between mics than a comparable cardioid (i.e. at the same recording/rendering angle, see the ol' stereophonic zoom paper for more on that). 

you might find this prior shoot-out post helpful...http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=116906.0

have fun