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Author Topic: MK4 > NBob > Tinybox > DR2D "newbie": tinybox settings  (Read 2541 times)

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Online MLKLuke

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MK4 > NBob > Tinybox > DR2D "newbie": tinybox settings
« on: March 21, 2016, 09:24:18 AM »
Hi all,
I finally can put my hands on a pair of brand new matched MK4 capsules and will use them with Nbob Actives (v2) + Tinybox (2.5) + Tascam DR2D Line-In

what are the "default" best settings for the tinybox for medium-to-loud rock shows?

this is how my tinybox front panel looks like...bought it together with Nbob cables from Datfly



I suppose I have to set the "right" switch to HIGH to use 54v setting and to LOW to got at 16v / -10db pad...but I do not understand if both settings are ok with actives as I use Nbob cables or if going with actives necessarily means that I only have to use HIGH setting / 54v

About the "left" switch (gain?), which setting would you recommend?

thanks in advance!

Luca

MLK - Luke
Mics: Schoeps MK4+Nbob Actives / AT853 (H,C,SC) / DPA 4061
Power: Tinybox v2.5 / 3-Wire BBox / CA-9200 3W / CA-UBB
Recorders: R05 / R09HR / Pocketrak C24 / Tascam DR2D
My Recordings

Offline Craig T

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Re: MK4 > NBob > Tinybox > DR2D "newbie": tinybox settings
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2016, 09:54:21 AM »
I recommend low gain.  I had a few shows brickwall at med gain into an Sony M10.
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Naiant Tinybox v2.2 / NBox(P) / Apogee Mini-MP / Church Audio ST9200 / CA-UGLY
Sony PCM-M10 / Tascam DR-70D

Online MLKLuke

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Re: MK4 > NBob > Tinybox > DR2D "newbie": tinybox settings
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2016, 10:01:20 AM »
I recommend low gain.  I had a few shows brickwall at med gain into an Sony M10.
ok...but the next question is: will I get good levels even if I set it to LOW and leave DR2D Line-IN at Level100? (I always use that setting with my AT853 + CA9200). Would be nice if some Schoeps active > tinybox users that used DR2D as a recorder would report their experience
MLK - Luke
Mics: Schoeps MK4+Nbob Actives / AT853 (H,C,SC) / DPA 4061
Power: Tinybox v2.5 / 3-Wire BBox / CA-9200 3W / CA-UBB
Recorders: R05 / R09HR / Pocketrak C24 / Tascam DR2D
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Offline Sebastian

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Re: MK4 > NBob > Tinybox > DR2D "newbie": tinybox settings
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2016, 10:20:46 AM »
I recommend low gain.  I had a few shows brickwall at med gain into an Sony M10.

This depends on how much your mid gain really is. Since tinyboxes were built to spec, the buyer could freely choose their gain settings. So your mid gain might be different from mine.

I also got a similar setup a few weeks ago (except that I have the Sony M10 as a recorder) and ran it at three shows since then. For medium to loud rock shows, I'd use the low gain setting on the pre and line input on the recorder. If you can't get good levels that way, switch to the recorder's mic input.

One of the three shows I taped was Tindersticks (really silent, minimalistic sound). I ended up with the tinybox at mid gain into the M10's mic input. So I guess, it really depends on the situation. But as a rule of thumb: Loud shows = low gain, quiet shows = mid or high gain.

Edit: My tinybox has a polarization voltage of 48V, so that should decrease sensitivity by about 2dB compared to the 60V Schoeps spec (if my math is right). But that small difference should be negligible.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 10:23:26 AM by Sebastian »
{Schoeps MK4 > NBob actives | MBHO KA 200 N} > {Naiant Tinybox v2.0 | Naiant IPA | Naiant PFAs} > {Zoom F8 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d}

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Offline Craig T

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Re: MK4 > NBob > Tinybox > DR2D "newbie": tinybox settings
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2016, 10:38:24 AM »
I recommend low gain.  I had a few shows brickwall at med gain into an Sony M10.

This depends on how much your mid gain really is. Since tinyboxes were built to spec, the buyer could freely choose their gain settings. So your mid gain might be different from mine.


The gain on mine is 4/18/32, which I think is standard.  I thought for sure 18 (mid) would be perfect, but I was burned twice.
Schoeps cmc6/4v / Line Audio CM3, OM1 / ADK A51 / Church Audio CA-14
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Sony PCM-M10 / Tascam DR-70D

Offline perks

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Re: MK4 > NBob > Tinybox > DR2D "newbie": tinybox settings
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2016, 10:39:47 AM »

 If you can't get good levels that way, switch to the recorder's mic input.



I would not do this. Start with Tinybox at low gain setting and always run Line In to the recorder. Adjust the gain on the recorder to get the levels where you want them (-6db for me). If you find that you need to have the gain on the recorder cranked up high move the Tinybox to the mid gain setting and lower the gain on the recorder. Rinse. Repeat. Until you get the levels dialed in.
Mics: Schoeps MK5, Schoeps MK41, AT853u (C,SC,H)
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Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony M10

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Re: MK4 > NBob > Tinybox > DR2D "newbie": tinybox settings
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2016, 11:56:25 AM »
I would not do this. Start with Tinybox at low gain setting and always run Line In to the recorder.

What's the rationale behind this?
{Schoeps MK4 > NBob actives | MBHO KA 200 N} > {Naiant Tinybox v2.0 | Naiant IPA | Naiant PFAs} > {Zoom F8 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d}

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Offline perks

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Re: MK4 > NBob > Tinybox > DR2D "newbie": tinybox settings
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2016, 12:21:46 PM »
I would not do this. Start with Tinybox at low gain setting and always run Line In to the recorder.

What's the rationale behind this?

OP said he's recording rock shows which I took to mean loud and amplified. I believe the Tinybox will provides ample gain on its own. My goal is to use the least amount of gain from a handheld recorder as possible and get my gain from the pre.

I dont own a DR2d - so maybe I'm wrong but I dont need to run mic in on any recorder if I have a stand alone pre in front.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 01:24:15 PM by perks »
Mics: Schoeps MK5, Schoeps MK41, AT853u (C,SC,H)
Preamps/converter: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), Grace Lunatec V2, Sound Devices MP-2, DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony M10

Online MLKLuke

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Re: MK4 > NBob > Tinybox > DR2D "newbie": tinybox settings
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2016, 04:42:37 PM »
thanks for the infos..will probably test the new rig on April 2. Finally got the caps today!


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8PZV_US8NunQ3VVTEJmLW1DNE0/view
MLK - Luke
Mics: Schoeps MK4+Nbob Actives / AT853 (H,C,SC) / DPA 4061
Power: Tinybox v2.5 / 3-Wire BBox / CA-9200 3W / CA-UBB
Recorders: R05 / R09HR / Pocketrak C24 / Tascam DR2D
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Offline jbell

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Re: MK4 > NBob > Tinybox > DR2D "newbie": tinybox settings
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2016, 07:01:59 PM »
My gain is 10, 20, 32 and I use 10 for FOB and 20 for OTS!!  I've never had an issue.
Schoeps MK4's, MK41's> KCY 250/5 Ig> Naiant PFA (60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

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Re: MK4 > NBob > Tinybox > DR2D "newbie": tinybox settings
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2016, 10:03:26 PM »

 If you can't get good levels that way, switch to the recorder's mic input.



I would not do this. Start with Tinybox at low gain setting and always run Line In to the recorder. Adjust the gain on the recorder to get the levels where you want them (-6db for me). If you find that you need to have the gain on the recorder cranked up high move the Tinybox to the mid gain setting and lower the gain on the recorder. Rinse. Repeat. Until you get the levels dialed in.
100% agree
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
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Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
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Re: MK4 > NBob > Tinybox > DR2D "newbie": tinybox settings
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2016, 03:29:46 PM »
I just ran my new Schoeps MK4 with Nbob Cables and Tinybox (v2.5) into Tascam DR2D Line-IN for the first time last week
at a club rock show. I started with 54v high setting and LOW level setting for the tinybox and Tascam Line-In at 100
as I always did with my previous AT853 mics (it's the highest level for Line-IN)

I noticed that levels were at about -22 so I had to switch to MID level setting on tinybox and got levels at about -6db

All went fine and I'm happy with the results but got a couple of questions:

First question: am I 100% safe if the levels are at about -6db in any case or am I risking to overload tinybox transformers in some
way I can not detect while recording and can only discover later when listening back to the recording?
I ask that because I read the user I bought that tinybox from (Datfly) had this problem at a loud show. Levels
on the recorder were ok but in the end the file had clicks and overloading issues in it.

Should I use DR2D Mic-IN (I should be able to rise up the gain more than on Line-IN to keep Tinybox at LOW setting)
instead of Line-IN or as long as the tinybox led is green and shows no clipping I am safe?

Second question: is the LOW voltage setting (16V / -10db attenuator) usable with my Nbob active cables configuration
and when should it be useful?

thanks a lot
MLK - Luke
Mics: Schoeps MK4+Nbob Actives / AT853 (H,C,SC) / DPA 4061
Power: Tinybox v2.5 / 3-Wire BBox / CA-9200 3W / CA-UBB
Recorders: R05 / R09HR / Pocketrak C24 / Tascam DR2D
My Recordings

Offline obaaron

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Re: MK4 > NBob > Tinybox > DR2D "newbie": tinybox settings
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2016, 07:43:47 PM »
Fwiw i typically run my tb at mid gain (+18db) for most shows unless im onstage or waaay close to the stacks.  My m10 is usually at level 4 setting going LINE in always.this is running gefell m21>nbobs>tinybox>m10.
Mics:  Gefell M20,M21/sms2000/nbob | Schoeps MK4V/cmc6/nbob | AKG c460b/c480b/a60/Naiant actives - ck61,62,63,69 ;ck1,3,8;ck1x,2x,3x | AT853, AT933 | CA-11c,o
Pres: Naiant Littlebox x 2 | Tinybox | Shure FP24 | BMod Edirol UA-5 | Church ST-9200
Recorders:  Zoom F8 | Tascam DR-680 | Tascam DR-60D | Sony PCM-M10
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Offline pohaku

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Re: MK4 > NBob > Tinybox > DR2D "newbie": tinybox settings
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2016, 10:22:05 PM »
Fwiw i typically run my tb at mid gain (+18db) for most shows unless im onstage or waaay close to the stacks.  My m10 is usually at level 4 setting going LINE in always.this is running gefell m21>nbobs>tinybox>m10.

Basically the same settings that I use with  mk 4s or 41s, KCY cable, tiny box and an M10.  Perfectly good for most shows from near the SB.
Mics: akg c460 (ck61, ck63), c414buls, c568eb; at4049a, 4051a, 4053a, at853; josephson c42; neumann U87, km84i; beyer m130, m160, m500; aea r84; gefell m71, mt711s, m200, m201; sony c38; schoeps cmc6, (mk4, mk21, mk41, mk4v); sennheiser mkh40, md421, md431, md541
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Recorders/converters: dr680, m10, dr-2d, d50, dr70d, zoom f8, 788T SSD CL-8, lynx aurora 8


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Re: MK4 > NBob > Tinybox > DR2D "newbie": tinybox settings
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2017, 11:41:30 AM »

**Bump for info**
hot licks > microphones > recorder



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