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Author Topic: limiter  (Read 928 times)

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Offline in2blues

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limiter
« on: August 21, 2016, 09:02:38 PM »
Wondering if I can get some feedback from someone who knows more about recording then I do, which is just about everyone. I have been recording several years and currently have a Sony M10 and Some D50. Mostly use Church CA-11 mics. with battery box. I have heard comments for and against using limiter.  What neg. effect might this have on recording?  Thanks

Offline DATBRAD

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Re: limiter
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2016, 06:59:37 AM »
There are limiters in mic preamps and also in recorders. The main difference simply stated is that limiters in most outboard preamps actually prevent the signal from exceeding a set gain level, to prevent overloading the preamp and distorting. Limiters in most recorders are limiting the signal from overloading the A/D converter by clipping the signal at a set point. The problem with that is the active electronics at the input in front of the limiter can be overloaded and the limiter simply prevents that distorted signal from peaking past a certain point at the A/D. You will find that using the limiter on a recorder like the M10 will throw you off and you'll end up with levels that seem fine, but sound will be distorted on playback. If you used limiting with a high quality preamp,it would limit the signal from distortion at the preamp, and pass a signal to your recorder that will not peak to the point of overloading the recorder input. Bottom line, limiters in recorders are usually not the best thing to use to prevent overloads.
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Offline nulldogmas

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Re: limiter
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2016, 07:48:19 AM »
I would put it more simply: There's no harm in turning the M10's limiter on as last-ditch clipping prevention, since if you get a loud burst of sound, better that it get compressed than that it distort. But best to run with levels low enough that the limiter never comes into play.

Offline acidjack

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Re: limiter
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2016, 11:43:24 AM »
Not all limiters are created equally, either. The M10 one is a speech limiter that is, for music, not very good.
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Offline in2blues

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Re: limiter
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2016, 12:47:54 PM »
many thanks for the feedback.. going to avoid using limiter

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: limiter
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2016, 03:06:53 PM »
Not all limiters are created equally, either. The M10 one is a speech limiter that is, for music, not very good.

Jonas, does this mean you actually understand how the M10 limiter works? I thought that was one of those things that mere mortals were not meant to know.

Offline morst

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Re: limiter
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2016, 08:13:57 PM »
I ALWAYS use the limiter on my M10 recordings.

Without it, peaks that go slightly over are much uglier.

I do try to avoid peaking but I find that using the limiter does prevent OVER samples when I'm cutting it close. I've run a show where I was able to blink the red peak lights, and hit 0 on the margin, and the resulting fileset is without any over samples.

Bottom line, limiters in recorders are usually not the best thing to use to prevent overloads.

I would guess that setting the levels low enough is probably the best thing, as well as perhaps positioning mics where they won't be mechanically overloaded!?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 08:15:51 PM by morst »
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Offline dabbler

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Re: limiter
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2016, 06:08:39 PM »
The M10 limiter works best for short burst sounds and mid/higher frequencies: hand clapping and such.

I might use it at quiet, high dynamic range acoustic shows where the loudest peaks will be from the person clapping next to me.

I've had it destroy recordings at loud rock concerts.
I seem to recall the M10 starts limiting around -12 dBFS, and I shoot for -6dBFS peaks (or less) when recording.

From what little I understand about DSP; longer tones and wavelengths are more difficult to process; they require more memory for lookahead/lookbehind, and also more processing power.

 

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