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Author Topic: some like it hot?  (Read 5073 times)

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Offline phriendlyguy

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some like it hot?
« on: September 09, 2002, 01:41:51 AM »
dr schoeps.  assuming you run schoeps.  what pre do you run and hot do you run it usually.  do you run the pre hot and the a/d to dial it all in.  or fire the a/d and pre soft.  this just seems to be an on going argument not supported by fact, between friends.  the nuemanns like to be hot, and i have heard different about schoeps.  not as much pre is better?  the rig is only as good as the user.  alwys searching for an opinion.  ??? PEACE  

Offline Bri

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Re:some like it hot?
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2002, 09:01:02 AM »
Your assumption is correct ;) I run the pre in the Apogee. As for gain, I push it to the pegs, meaning I run as hot as possible. For me, the green light on the apogee means go, the yellow yield and the red stop. I maybe clip once or twice or more trying to get as hot as possible w/o clipping. Essentially maximizing the frequency responce of the recording by using all the bandwidth.

If I were to run a pre, I would run the apogee in it's "line or mic level calibrated" mode. Check the output of the pre. That way the apogee (or whatever pre) knows to expect +4 pr or -10 consumer or mic level -45 dBu, 150 Ohm. This will be a "true bypass" type mode for the amplifiers in the apogee.

Now you can just set levels using the controls on the pre, and the metering on the apogee or your tapedeck, no need to look at the pre. That's how I would do it.

As far as running "hot" for different mic types, I would *think* that it would make no difference. When you have the levels higher, you are essentially increasing the dynamic range of the recording. Maybe  people like the sound of the schoeps w/o the full dyn range, but IMHO if you are going to make a recording, take advantage of the full bandwidth of the recording medium.

cheers
the doc ;)

jpschust

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Re:some like it hot?
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2002, 03:22:55 PM »
If you are gonna run mics, run em as hot as possible w/o overloading your circuits.  The AD1000 soft limit is great for this.  I can't stress this enough... hotter = more range = more sound.  


Offline phriendlyguy

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Re:some like it hot?
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2002, 02:11:55 AM »
well i know how my mics sound good.  just wondering how others work.  and the mme i was thinking.  what is an a/d anyway.  truly a rig is only as good as the mics and preamp.  i hate to say it but apogee lacks in the pre department. again i await the V3.  (AD1000 ;D) mme :P

jpschust

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Re:some like it hot?
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2002, 10:01:27 AM »
Hye,

I'm guessing you are judging the pre in the MME with the 4v tapes... those tapes just kinda stink.  The pre is a great pre as compared to the 1000, await my tapes :-P

Jonny

Offline twoodruff

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Re:some like it hot?
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2002, 03:59:03 PM »
Johnny--

I do hope to hear your tapes. I will be getting my u89s in this week to add to the 140s already in my closet. What T- bar are you using to hold the 170s up? I am going to be using the v3 with the ad1k and comparing the v3 a>d with that of the ad1k and the mod sbm-1.
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jpschust

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Re:some like it hot?
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2002, 04:18:53 PM »
For my T bar I use the Shure Vertical mount.  With mics that big and heavy aint no way you are gonna be getting exact 20cm ORTF spacing.  It's just honestly too hard in the field to do.  So, I just guestimate it.  You can run the 170's sideways and get exactly the same sound as you would if you ran them vertically (polar 3 dimensional patterning).

Jonny

Offline wildman_at_large

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Re:some like it hot?
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2002, 04:19:01 PM »
"Essentially maximizing the frequency responce of the recording by using all the bandwidth."
 Are you trying to say that a preamps bandwidth is a function of it's gain ? Can you point to any published data to support this ? I looked around and they all seem to say different , maybe I missed something ? I always thought you pushed a gain stage hard for coloration.  Please provide some facts to back this up, thanks.

Offline Bri

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Re:some like it hot?
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2002, 05:53:46 PM »
you are hot for me wildman!

I am saying that in the digital domain as well as in analog, the more information you put onto the tape without exceeding the limitations (bandwidth of the format), the better sounding tape you will get. You CAN NOT argue here because that is the reality.

"Are you trying to say that a preamps bandwidth is a function of it's gain ? "

I dont even understand that question...

Let me make an analogy, assuming you understand how a->d auctually works....
In 16/48 (DAT standard) audio you have a sine wave with a 16 bit word resolution, so essentially, 65,536 (if I did my math correct) graduations per word, with a total of 48,000 words recorded a second. If you made a recording only using half of the possible 65,536 possibilities, you would essentially be making an 8 bit recording (256 possibilities). When you crank the A/D to it's threshhold you are excersising the entire capability of the format.

Think of it like your computer monitor, when it is in 8 bit color mode, you have a mavimum of 256 colors!

I really dont want to give a lecture, but check around the internet about how a/d and d/a works. You provide me your facts and links, I'll provide the website to post them on.

peace!
bri

Offline scervin

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Re:some like it hot?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2002, 12:36:24 PM »
Trey...... U89's :o  What can Ben say now???? ;D  
BTW, tapes and check are on the way!!!
SC

Offline twoodruff

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Re:some like it hot?
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2002, 01:12:10 PM »
Ben will never know, HA!! gonna run u89s with an oade as well  ???  never seen that but will be interesting to see, loved the sound of my 140s with the oade. I thought the 140s were a bit too thin to run with a v2 but the u89s sound be able to fill in the holes when being used with the v3. Hope to see you on tour somewhere Scott!!
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Offline scervin

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Re:some like it hot?
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2002, 02:27:48 PM »
I can't wait to hear the Geffels run into the V3 as I might have to get that if I can't find a "Southern Brick" to run with them.  Good luck, have fun and I'm sure our paths will cross. X-mas jam is on my list!
SC

Offline phriendlyguy

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Re:some like it hot?
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2002, 04:06:36 PM »
whats a "southern brick"?  is this common lingo, never heard it.  

Offline twoodruff

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Re:some like it hot?
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2002, 04:10:05 PM »
A "southern brick" is an oade preamp. They are known this way because of their look. They have no bells or whistles, just a black box. I have a m148 and it has an on/off switch and two ins, two outs, I had to label which way was on, but I m a "special" taper. Or I was in "special" classes atleast.
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Offline phriendlyguy

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Re:some like it hot?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2002, 04:20:01 PM »
oades have a 248 as well?  whats the difference if this exists?  what is the gain set at?  do you get to pick?  heard good things about it, just dont know the facts.  PEACE

 

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