Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Flexibility with Stereo Mic Wind Protection  (Read 1078 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline WalkingStickMan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Flexibility with Stereo Mic Wind Protection
« on: March 01, 2017, 01:45:43 AM »
Hi all,

I'm hoping to pool experience and/or advice regarding wind protection for matched pair condenser mics (currently using Rode NT-5 MP, with a Rode stereo mic bar).

I initially thought I had it figured out- I'll go ahead and get two Rycote 20mm BBG's and matching Windjammers. Then the revelation- if I do that, I guess X/Y pairing is out of the question? One of the big reasons for being excited about my recent foray into stereo micing has been the idea of experimenting with mic placement/configurations, and I'd hate to limit myself based on the wind protection gear I opt for.

I then ran into the Rycote Stereo Windshields, but judging by the suspension systems that Rycote sells with the kits, I'm not sure if I would need to then purchase multiple suspensions, one for each configuration, or if there are even Stereo Windshields which can house both ORTF and X/Y (as well as spaced pair, etc.). An would my Rode stereo bar work with one of these Stereo Windshields?

Anyway, given the pricing of all this stuff, I wouldn't want to go out and get a system that limits my options in terms of configuration, but at the same time I'd like to purchase something relatively soon (and don't necessarily have $2k stored away for windscreen/suspension combos  ::) ). I'm imagining that this thing will end up housing a slew of mics beyond the NT-5's, so at a minimum I'd hope for something that can be upgraded as I go, even if I'm unable to get all of the best components now (i.e. get a windshield + windjammer that fits my stereo bar and multiple configurations, then down the road upgrade to the nicer suspension systems, etc.).

So, what do you all think the most flexible option is when it comes to wind protection for stereo mic pairs?

Really excited to learn as much as possible about this stuff, eventually getting to the skill sets involved in capturing great stereo recordings! (once I have all of this gear stuff nailed down...)

Peace,
John

Offline mjwin

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Gender: Male
Re: Flexibility with Stereo Mic Wind Protection
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2017, 03:20:31 PM »
You've raised a perennial issue & one which isn't made any simpler by the fact that there are so many ways of recording "stereo". A lot depends on what it is you want to record. Is it festival music, brass bands, street ambience, nature...?  There isn't one single setup which is optimal for everything (like everything else in life!)

You say you're currently using NT5s with a stereo bar. Presumably you have experimented with the options which this offers you, viz: XY (coincident), ORTF 17cm angled out 110deg, NOS 30cm angled out 90deg, and misc. variations of these.  In which case do you already have a preference, or is it just flexibility which you seek?

I think you'll find that many folks (myself included) prefer some spacing between mics as opposed to using a purely coincident X-Y pair, and bulky windshields such as the Rycote BBGs will work fine with all of these configurations. In fact, since you already have the Rode mics, this arrangement would allow you to try spaced omnis, too if you get the NT55-O caps for your NT5s.  This is another valid configuration for recording "stereo".  There are cheaper foam windshield options, Rycote "softies" come to mind, but these don't provide a sphere of still air around the mics as do the BBGs. 

If you get the Rycote BBG "baby ball gags", you can use your existing Rode mounting bar together with any type of small shockmount which will fit. Rycote do make a rather nice stereo bar c/w with the new "lyre" suspension mounts. I've seen this advertised as part of a kit alongside a pair of BBGs and you might find that you can get a good price for the complete bundle. 

As for a full sized basket windshield (Rycote / Rode), you won't be able to fit standard length SDCs (such as NT5s) inside in any kind of stereo configuration. It's possible to do this with smaller cards such as the Line Audio CM3s, or Sennheiser MKH8040 ($$$) (for which Rycote make a complete windshield kit), but then that's getting away from the immediate issue of doing what you want with what you've got, without shelling out too much cash!

I think the decision making process  is something you have to slog through, and it does depend a lot on what you're trying to do. How much wind do you need to cope with?  Are the mics on a boom or tripod? Do you need to trek miles with the thing over your shoulder? etc. 

You've already overcome the first hurdle in realizing that wind protection is important. So good luck!

Offline capnhook

  • All your llamas are belong to us....
  • Trade Count: (18)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3320
  • All your llamas are belong to us....
Re: Flexibility with Stereo Mic Wind Protection
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2017, 04:16:55 PM »
Wind makes flexible things flexible. :bigsmile:

Welcome to taperssection y'all.
Proud member of the reality-based community

BSCS-L->JB-mod NAK CM-300 (CP-1,-3)->LSD2->CA CAFS-Omni->Sony ECM-907**Apogee MiniMe Rev. C->CA Ugly II->Oade line-mod SBM1**Edirol OCM R-44->Tascam DR-22WL->Sony TCD-D8


"Don't ever take an all or nothing attitude when it comes to making a difference
and being beautiful and making the world a beautiful place through your actions.
Every little bit is registered.  Every little bit.  So be as beautiful as you can as often as you can"

"It'll never be over, 'till we learn."
 
"My dream is to get a bus and get the band and just go coast to coast. Just about everything else except music, is anti-musical.  That's it.  Music's the thing." - Jeb Puryear

Offline admkrk

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1581
  • I'm an idiot
Re: Flexibility with Stereo Mic Wind Protection
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2017, 02:41:16 AM »
I'd like to purchase something relatively soon (and don't necessarily have $2k stored away for windscreen/suspension combos  ::) )

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68646-REG/Shure_A81WS_A81WS_Windscreen_for.html
As long as your mic diameter is in range, most SD mics are, it is unlikely that spending more money will better result, except in extreme conditions.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68138-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8410A_AT8410A_Shock_Mount.html

Likewise, these mounts should fit any SD mic.

Are they the absolute best, maybe not, but, they are more than adequate in most situations. Plus < $200 is much more practical than $2K.
"the faster you go ahead, the behinder you get"

"If you can drink ram's piss, fuck, you can drink anything"

Offline boltman

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 955
  • Gender: Male
  • Music est vita!
Re: Flexibility with Stereo Mic Wind Protection
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2017, 02:31:48 PM »
I have a Schoeps M/S in a Rycote AE blimp (made for this configuration). It's small, flexible and as bombproof as it comes.  I like it a lot.

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Flexibility with Stereo Mic Wind Protection
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2017, 09:50:41 AM »
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68646-REG/Shure_A81WS_A81WS_Windscreen_for.html

I'm with the admiral on this.  The Sure A81WS is the most effective and commonly used foam windscreen around here for outdoor conditions.  They can be used in pairs for any stereo microphone configuration.  They are large by foam screen standards, but not by basket-style screen standards (They are commonly referred to around T.S. as "Big Ass Shures").  If its too windy for the A81WS its going to be quite gusty and in most cases they will be all you need.  They are overkill indoors, where smaller windscreens are most appropriate, but can still be used.  They do attenuate high frequencies more than a smaller foam screen, but in a very linear way which can be easily corrected for with EQ afterwards if necessary.

A pair of those is a good choice if you are going to play around with lots of different stereo mic'ing configurations outdoors in potentially windy conditions. And I highly encourage doing that to figure out which recording methods work best for you.  Once you've settled somewhat on certain configurations for certain situations, it then makes sense to further optimize wind protection and other parts of the rig to optimally suit those specific arrangements.

As for shock-mounts, it's not a bad idea to use them, but I don't find them necessary most of the time.   If I do use them its usually because its a convenient way to mount the mics.  The AT shocks the admiral linked are traditional workhorses and do the job, but the current gold standard for shock mounts are the Rycote InVision line which do a much better job at attenuating "handling noise" traveling through the stand to the microphone if that actually is a problem.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

Offline Ronmac

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Gender: Male
Re: Flexibility with Stereo Mic Wind Protection
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2017, 02:49:18 PM »
Have you seen the new video mic prox? It's not cheap, but it uses NT 5 caps and has a ton of very useful feature, especially if you need a compac package on a DSLR.

Downsides?  It's not cheap and you are stuck using the X-Y config.

Upsides? It will fit on a boom pole or hotshot, has multiple cable options and the wind protection seems to be very good.

Have a look on the Rode site where they strap some on A Ferrari

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Is a 4 channel slut and
  • Trade Count: (121)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40568
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
Re: Flexibility with Stereo Mic Wind Protection
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2017, 04:11:10 PM »
Also, a bunch of us have been using the Movo screens with great success so far! I've owned just about every windscreen commonly used by tapers, and the Movo's are by far my favorite screens! They're basically a clone/copy of the Rycote Classic and Super Softie slip-on screens, and at a fraction of the price! The quality of the Movo's is also top notch IMO, and they are a crazy good deal if you ask me ;) I own the Movo WS80[Classic Softie Clones] and the Movo WST50[Super Softie Clones], and I couldn't be anymore pleased with them so far! I've been using the Movo WST50's as my main screens and keep the WS80's as my backup screens! I like the black color and non-shedding WST50's better than the WS80's FWIW!

Movo WST50's
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Movo-WST50-Ballistic-Acoustic-Nylon-Microphone-Windscreen-for-3cm-Shotgun-Mics-/381293477529?hash=item58c6dcbe99:g:EaMAAOSw~OdVe0t6

Movo WS80's
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Movo-WS80-Pro-Windscreen-w-Acoustic-Foam-for-Shotgun-Microphones-up-to-6cm-Long/381145937711?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3D3f98a17984f14fa0b63a3d528b3d1549%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D351987814360&rt=nc

Trust me, I've been wanting to get some Rycote BBG's as well, but the Movo's do a great job and are a phenomenal value IMO! I haven't had a situation yet where the wind was sooooo powerful that it straight ruined my recordings, so they must be doing something right! I'm sure a blimp+windjammer is superior, but if there's a crazy amount of wind, then your recording will suffer from it regardless whether you're running the Movo's or the BBG's/Blimps, from either wind noise or phasing anyway! For what we do, the Movo's are more than adequate for 90% of the music that gets taped by us!

That said, if I find a situation where the Movo's really let me down big-time, then I'll look into getting either 2 or 4 single BBG's, or a blimp that can handle a stereo setup like ORTF that encases the whole setup vs each mic capsule! And if wind is THAT big of an issue wherever I'm taping, then I'd just run 2 channels of audio anyway, and would be a little bit cheaper to go the 2x BBG route or a stereo blimp setup! I usually run DINa/DIN, but the only stereo blimps with coincident spacing is the ORTF mount! I'm just afraid that if I did go the stereo blimp route, that I would only be limited to ORTF though! If I tried to run DINa/DIN, I'm afraid the capsules would be too close to or hitting the inside of the basket/blimp since they'd be closer to the basket than when running ORTF! However, if I could fit my capsules and my DINa/DIN SRS 2 channel active bars inside of the stereo blimp, I'd go that route even though it's the more expensive option! That way your capsules and everything else are fully covered creating a huge space of air inside of the basket, and one less thing to worry about! I'm sure that the 2x BBG's route would be much cheaper, but the stereo blimps look awesome and if money were no object, that's the way that I would go if I were you! And for maximum wind protection, don't forget the Windjammer's too ;) ;D
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline tim in jersey

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 3247
  • Gender: Male
Re: Flexibility with Stereo Mic Wind Protection
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2017, 08:35:26 PM »
I moved from the Shure A81ws, AKA the BAS or big-ass-Shure windscreens, to the much smaller Movos that Bean mentioned above. I've not noticed any degradation in protection from wind nor in quality.

When I'm going to festivals and want to run multiple rigs the size/amount of room in my rig bag is a huge consideration. The Movos have helped me a bunch in scaling down the size of my rig bags.

Just putting that out there...

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Flexibility with Stereo Mic Wind Protection
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2017, 08:43:11 AM »
Sounds like I give Movo a go.
Thanks, gents.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

Offline Gordon

  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 10055
  • Gender: Male
    • my list
Re: Flexibility with Stereo Mic Wind Protection
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2017, 04:43:23 PM »
I moved from the Shure A81ws, AKA the BAS or big-ass-Shure windscreens, to the much smaller Movos that Bean mentioned above. I've not noticed any degradation in protection from wind nor in quality.

When I'm going to festivals and want to run multiple rigs the size/amount of room in my rig bag is a huge consideration. The Movos have helped me a bunch in scaling down the size of my rig bags.

Just putting that out there...

Good to hear!  After many years my bas's started to fall apart.  I ordered the movo's but haven't taped anything outdoors yet. 
Mics: Neumann ak40 > Nick mod lc3 > Naiant PFA, km140
Pre:  Audioroot Femto
Recorders: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-70D

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/gordonlw

Offline admkrk

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1581
  • I'm an idiot
Re: Flexibility with Stereo Mic Wind Protection
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2017, 01:31:21 AM »
I replaced my BAS's last year, but if the Movo's work just as well, I might consider then next time, if for nothing else other than indoor use.
"the faster you go ahead, the behinder you get"

"If you can drink ram's piss, fuck, you can drink anything"

Offline goodcooker

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2131
  • Gender: Male
  • goes to 11
Re: Flexibility with Stereo Mic Wind Protection
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2017, 07:33:36 AM »

Another vote for the Movo ballistic screens. No shedding, small and easy to store in the bag, cheap and most importantly....effective.
modded Naks > RAD MS2 > DR60d

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

"Are you the Zman?" - fan at Panic 10-08-10 Kansas City

"I don't know who left this perfectly good inflatable wook doll here, but if I'm blowing her up, I'm keeping her." -  hoppedup

Offline capnhook

  • All your llamas are belong to us....
  • Trade Count: (18)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3320
  • All your llamas are belong to us....
Re: Flexibility with Stereo Mic Wind Protection
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2017, 09:48:29 AM »
Ballistic screens vs. fuzzy screens?

Different MOVO's for different weather?....Will raindrops be audible using either style?

Looking for some opinions.
Proud member of the reality-based community

BSCS-L->JB-mod NAK CM-300 (CP-1,-3)->LSD2->CA CAFS-Omni->Sony ECM-907**Apogee MiniMe Rev. C->CA Ugly II->Oade line-mod SBM1**Edirol OCM R-44->Tascam DR-22WL->Sony TCD-D8


"Don't ever take an all or nothing attitude when it comes to making a difference
and being beautiful and making the world a beautiful place through your actions.
Every little bit is registered.  Every little bit.  So be as beautiful as you can as often as you can"

"It'll never be over, 'till we learn."
 
"My dream is to get a bus and get the band and just go coast to coast. Just about everything else except music, is anti-musical.  That's it.  Music's the thing." - Jeb Puryear

Offline WalkingStickMan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Flexibility with Stereo Mic Wind Protection
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2017, 05:45:07 PM »
Hey all,

Just wanted to check back in on this thread- after a bunch more research (I can get pretty nerdy ;) ), I ended up landing on the Schoeps W20R1, one for each mic. Took them out last weekend in winds ~15-20mph, and while the wind itself sounded quite nice (was recording in the woods, branches rustling, etc.), there was no actual mic distortion due to wind whatsoever. Really impressed with the protection of these, and have heard great things about this particular screen's transparency. Hoping to do a lot more testing, and can give any additional info if people are interested.

Thanks again everyone!

John

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.268 seconds with 37 queries.
© 2002-2017 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF
Website Design by Foxtrot Media, Inc., a Baltimore Website Company