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Author Topic: Recording outcome issue  (Read 2558 times)

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Offline sckofelng

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Recording outcome issue
« on: April 11, 2017, 04:23:27 PM »
Hey guys,
I am starting to get desperate on how to solve this which is why I get to you guys now!

I taped a show almost 3 weeks ago and when editing afterwards I noticed that the recording lacked lows everywhere (kick drum being almost gone). I was thinking the mics just didn't catch up much bass from the show. However when I taped another show 1 1/2 weeks later it was the exact same thing and the show had many lows coming from the guitars and bass so I started to get suspicious. I tried different things in Audition, including phases correcton because it showed 0 balance at the Phases analysis. Then I thought of cutting one channel to see if anything changes and I was surprised to hear that the playback is very fine as usual, on both channels when playing them seperate. Putting one mono channel back to two channels is not a problem either, the same great sound comes out, however if the two channels are playing back together, it is the same odd no lows and way too many highs thing. I tried playbacking on 2 different notebooks with Realtek + Conexant HD onboard chips, almost 0 difference.

My rig is as follows: AT853 w/ lowsensmod > SP-SB11 (no bass roll off) > Sony PCM-M10 (24bit/48kHz)

At first I was thinking that something went wrong with the M10 and saving the recorded signals but I highly doubt that now after I just tried recording deeper sounds with different setups which would be the rig listed above, then minus the battery box into the M10. I did the same going into the Mic In of one of the 2 notebooks (with and without battery box) and it was the exact same. When playing back one mono channel, the outcome is great as usual, when playing back both channels, the nightmare remains :(

The last show I taped before that first weird recording happened was less than 2 weeks prior. Next show I plan to tape is in almost 2 weeks so I hope I can find a fairly fast solution.
I hope anyone here can help out.

Thanks in advance
Audio rig:
AT853 (w/ lowsensmod) > SP-SB11 > Sony PCM-M10

Video:
Panasonic DMC-TZ100 (manual settings)
Panasonic DMC-LX100 (manual settings)

Offline eman

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Re: Recording outcome issue
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2017, 04:28:30 PM »
Out of phase? Maybe try inverting one channel. It would also indicate that your wiring is backwards somewhere in your rig.
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Offline sckofelng

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Re: Recording outcome issue
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 04:48:03 PM »
Out of phase? Maybe try inverting one channel. It would also indicate that your wiring is backwards somewhere in your rig.

Thanks for the quick reply!

Just tried inverting one channel only, the phases analysis is barely getting better and the sound seemingly does not change.

The wiring issue could be at any any small spot within the entire microphones cable only then since recording with or without the battery box did not a bring a change, right?
Audio rig:
AT853 (w/ lowsensmod) > SP-SB11 > Sony PCM-M10

Video:
Panasonic DMC-TZ100 (manual settings)
Panasonic DMC-LX100 (manual settings)

Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Recording outcome issue
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2017, 09:48:00 PM »
This definitely describes the classic symptoms of phase inversion, which can result from a cable fault.  Typically completely inverting one of the two channels should restore the set.  If not, perhaps the fault is also causing them to be phase shifted (meaning out of synch in the timeline) as well.  Perhaps posting a sample might help. 

If the problem is evident with only mics > recorder (leaving out the batt box) you would seem to need new cabling for the mics to resolve the underlying issue.   The problem is not in the recorder. 
Gear:
Audio:
Schoeps MK4V
Nak CM-100/CM-300 w/ CP-1's or CP-4's
SP-CMC-25
>
Oade C mod R-44  OR
Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10 (formerly Roland R-05) 
Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

Offline morst

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Re: Recording outcome issue
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 10:44:48 PM »
are you sure it's not your playback system?
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Offline sckofelng

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Re: Recording outcome issue
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2017, 01:31:49 AM »
This definitely describes the classic symptoms of phase inversion, which can result from a cable fault.  Typically completely inverting one of the two channels should restore the set.  If not, perhaps the fault is also causing them to be phase shifted (meaning out of synch in the timeline) as well.  Perhaps posting a sample might help. 

If the problem is evident with only mics > recorder (leaving out the batt box) you would seem to need new cabling for the mics to resolve the underlying issue.   The problem is not in the recorder.

They are not out of sync in the timeline so I assume it's not that.  I will post a sample later today! Thanks for the reply, seems like I have to look into getting re-wiring done or getting new mics :(

are you sure it's not your playback system?

Pretty certain, I tried it with my 2.1 System as well as headphones, the same differences.
Audio rig:
AT853 (w/ lowsensmod) > SP-SB11 > Sony PCM-M10

Video:
Panasonic DMC-TZ100 (manual settings)
Panasonic DMC-LX100 (manual settings)

 

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