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Author Topic: Drop off from SP C4 to mini mic omni's?  (Read 519 times)

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Offline CorFit Chris

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Drop off from SP C4 to mini mic omni's?
« on: April 25, 2017, 02:41:57 PM »
I have been using Studio Projects C4 omni mics split ~3ft with center card/hypercard for outdoor festivals the past few years.  I have wanted to go to mini omni's as a substitute for awhile due to form factor, ease of setup, and reduction of stand sway from wind.  Now that I have sold my C4's, I desperately need replacement omni's before the festival season hits.

Does anyone know how much (if any) drop off from the C4 I can expect from a CA-14 or Naiant X-X or X-R omni pair?  My dream upgrade is the DPA 4061, but not in the budget this year.
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Offline beatkilla

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Re: Drop off from SP C4 to mini mic omni's?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2017, 03:32:13 PM »
What do you mean by drop off?

 I have a pair of CA-14 Omnis 12 foot length techflexed terminated in 1/8 mini stereo plug I might sell if your interested.

Offline goodcooker

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Re: Drop off from SP C4 to mini mic omni's?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2017, 03:33:19 PM »
Small omnis are much less expensive and easier to produce than other patterns so the quality of inexpensive omnis is pretty good. You are not likely to hear a huge difference between the ones you mention and the SP C4s. I had the SP C4 and used the omnis outdoors at festivals and they were just fine but not anything special.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Drop off from SP C4 to mini mic omni's?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2017, 05:57:12 PM »
I've not used the mini omnis you are considering, but here is my selection process-

Biggest differences are likely to be:
1) Sensitivity- in most cases simply requiring different amounts of gain.
2) Dynamic range- self-noise level at the quiet end up to SPL induced distortion level at the loud end.  Most will be quiet enough for outdoor festival use, some may distort at high SPLs.
2) Response differences- Some may have more high frequency response and sound brighter than others, which is generally completely EQ correctable (some may have interchangeable response grids).
3) Distortion qualities- some will sound smoother, others hashier, which is NOT EQ correctable.
4) Susceptibility to interference.
5) Availability, price, support.

I first narrow the field based on #5 and #2- does the mic provide sufficient dynamic range that works for the intended use? ..and somewhat less so on #1- is it's sensitivity compatible with the rest of my rig for the intended use?
I can pretty much figure those things based on specs and TS readn'.

Then I need to actually use it to determine if #2, #3, and #4 are acceptable.  #2 is less problematic because even if it needs EQ correction that can be acceptable as long as I can do so effectively.  #3 and #4 are deal breakers.  Does it sound clean enough?  Are the rough spots I hear clean response differences I can EQ compensate for, or are they uncorrectible resonances and distortion products?  Does it act as a cell phone signal receiver?

I have some super cheap Sound Pros binaural mics (SP-TFB-2, which I think sold for something like $60 a pair or so back in '06) which they sent me when I ordered an original R-09 from them way back when.  Basically straight Panasonic caps with funky in-ear mounts.  They sound very good and clean but have less dynamic range (both a higher self-noise and lower distortion threshold) than my DPAs, and are far more susceptible to noise pickup of electrical interference.  But in the range in which they work and in situations without interference, they can provide maybe 75% of what I get from the DPAs for 10% of the cost.  Sometimes the ultimate measure isn't the absolute performance of which the mic is capable, but rather the limits of the range of conditions in which it will perform well.

Hope that helps.
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Offline CorFit Chris

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Re: Drop off from SP C4 to mini mic omni's?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2017, 10:40:56 AM »
Small omnis are much less expensive and easier to produce than other patterns so the quality of inexpensive omnis is pretty good. You are not likely to hear a huge difference between the ones you mention and the SP C4s. I had the SP C4 and used the omnis outdoors at festivals and they were just fine but not anything special.

Good point.  Agreed
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/orithris
Mics: AKG 460 (ck61 & ck63) | Studio Projects C4 (cards & omni's) | CA-14 cards | SP-SPSM-9
Recorders: Tascam DR-70d  |  Tascam DR-60d  |  Tascam DR-2D
Preamp: CA Ugly
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Offline CorFit Chris

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Re: Drop off from SP C4 to mini mic omni's?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2017, 10:44:25 AM »
I've not used the mini omnis you are considering, but here is my selection process-

Biggest differences are likely to be:
1) Sensitivity- in most cases simply requiring different amounts of gain.
2) Dynamic range- self-noise level at the quiet end up to SPL induced distortion level at the loud end.  Most will be quiet enough for outdoor festival use, some may distort at high SPLs.
2) Response differences- Some may have more high frequency response and sound brighter than others, which is generally completely EQ correctable (some may have interchangeable response grids).
3) Distortion qualities- some will sound smoother, others hashier, which is NOT EQ correctable.
4) Susceptibility to interference.
5) Availability, price, support.

I first narrow the field based on #5 and #2- does the mic provide sufficient dynamic range that works for the intended use? ..and somewhat less so on #1- is it's sensitivity compatible with the rest of my rig for the intended use?
I can pretty much figure those things based on specs and TS readn'.

Then I need to actually use it to determine if #2, #3, and #4 are acceptable.  #2 is less problematic because even if it needs EQ correction that can be acceptable as long as I can do so effectively.  #3 and #4 are deal breakers.  Does it sound clean enough?  Are the rough spots I hear clean response differences I can EQ compensate for, or are they uncorrectible resonances and distortion products?  Does it act as a cell phone signal receiver?

I have some super cheap Sound Pros binaural mics (SP-TFB-2, which I think sold for something like $60 a pair or so back in '06) which they sent me when I ordered an original R-09 from them way back when.  Basically straight Panasonic caps with funky in-ear mounts.  They sound very good and clean but have less dynamic range (both a higher self-noise and lower distortion threshold) than my DPAs, and are far more susceptible to noise pickup of electrical interference.  But in the range in which they work and in situations without interference, they can provide maybe 75% of what I get from the DPAs for 10% of the cost.  Sometimes the ultimate measure isn't the absolute performance of which the mic is capable, but rather the limits of the range of conditions in which it will perform well.

Hope that helps.

Nice strategic plan.  I think I will pull the trigger.  Considering I am limited by #5, there is not a lot of choice and I know they get good reviews.  At this price point its worth purchasing and testing.  Great if they work, list them back in the Yard Sale if they don't.
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/orithris
Mics: AKG 460 (ck61 & ck63) | Studio Projects C4 (cards & omni's) | CA-14 cards | SP-SPSM-9
Recorders: Tascam DR-70d  |  Tascam DR-60d  |  Tascam DR-2D
Preamp: CA Ugly
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

 

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