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Author Topic: A couple of newb questions  (Read 2918 times)

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Offline heathen

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A couple of newb questions
« on: May 16, 2017, 02:52:52 PM »
I've got a Roland R-05, CA Ugly BB,and CA14 omnis.  I have a couple of questions:

1) Should the plug coming out of the BB go to the mic or line in of the R-05?

2) If I don't use the bass rolloff for an outdoor show and pick up wind noise, could I apply a bass rolloff in post and get the same result as if I'd used it in the first place?

Thanks!
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | Countryman B3 | CA-14 omnis | AT853 cards | AKG 460/ck61 | Studio Projects CS5
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Offline morst

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2017, 03:59:18 PM »
Wind noise can not really be fixed, only prevented.

Bass roll off can be applied later if needed, but if there is no bass, it can not be effectively restored later.

bass roll off is for speech, not music, in my experience.
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Offline heathen

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2017, 04:52:38 PM »
I'll try it without any bass rolloff.

If I plug the CA BB into the mic input, should I have plug-in power on or off?  I've tried searching and haven't found a definitive answer.  (This is for a rock show, btw.)
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Offline eman

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2017, 05:52:19 PM »
I'd go with line in if you can get some levels for the house music, say -20dB but if you can't get the house to show at all then maybe try the mic in. Plug in power is not needed with the battery box.
Theologically speaking, the two parties have divided the Seven Deadly Sins as follows: Republicans oppose lust, sloth and envy; Democrats scorn gluttony, greed, wrath and pride. Little progress is reported. -Gene Lyons

Offline ilduclo

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2017, 05:58:30 PM »
Play around with the settings on a few shows that you don't care how they come out. I'd suggest line in for loud shows, mic in only for when you aren't getting much input with the line in. Go 24 bit and you can amplify it later without getting hiss

Offline eman

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2017, 05:59:29 PM »
Too late! Bring some earbuds so you can take a listen to the opener.
Theologically speaking, the two parties have divided the Seven Deadly Sins as follows: Republicans oppose lust, sloth and envy; Democrats scorn gluttony, greed, wrath and pride. Little progress is reported. -Gene Lyons

Offline jcable77

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2017, 07:17:56 PM »
Shouldn't have too much of an issue with wind noise with Omni's. I've never used ca-14s so I can't say for sure but in my experience you shouldn't have too much of an issue.
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Offline nulldogmas

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2017, 10:01:04 PM »
Note that if you use bass rolloff but increase the gain, you end up with just as much signal, just more skewed toward the treble and mids. So "you can't restore bass once you roll it off" isn't quite right — you might as well argue that rolling off bass is necessary because you can't restore treble that isn't recorded.

(And no, I don't generally use bass rolloff, but I also don't get the argument that it's discarding information, not when there's a gain setting right there.)

Offline aaronji

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2017, 08:25:26 AM »
So "you can't restore bass once you roll it off" isn't quite right — you might as well argue that rolling off bass is necessary because you can't restore treble that isn't recorded.

Maybe I am misinterpreting this, but I don't think it is really accurate.  Bass roll-off doesn't have any effect on higher frequencies, at least not in absolute terms, whereas it definitely reduces the low frequency content (both absolutely and relatively).  Depending on the corner and slope, you could lose some low frequency content to an extent that EQ'ing it back in would be difficult/impossible (particularly when coupled with proximity effects from directional microphones or with microphones that don't have good low frequency response to begin with).

For the OP, given the sensitivity of those mics, you can probably go either mic-in (on low) or line-in for most shows.  According to the specs, there is an 8 dBu difference at the "default input level" (whatever that may be), so there is probably a pretty big overlap between the two.  If it is really loud, go line, and if it is really quiet, go mic...

Offline heathen

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2017, 10:57:54 AM »
Thanks all.  I went line in, without bass rolloff, and it seems to have turned out pretty well.
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | Countryman B3 | CA-14 omnis | AT853 cards | AKG 460/ck61 | Studio Projects CS5
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Offline ilduclo

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2017, 11:48:14 AM »
Cool, post it in the kick down thread :coolguy:

Offline heathen

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2017, 12:42:53 PM »
Is it okay to post  >:D recordings in there?
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | Countryman B3 | CA-14 omnis | AT853 cards | AKG 460/ck61 | Studio Projects CS5
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Offline ilduclo

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2017, 12:56:15 PM »
I guess it depends on the artist. Some don't want tapers at all, most don't care

here's a link to a list of non-taper friendly artists, and ones with other restrictions like no soundboards, no video, etc

http://wiki.dimeadozen.org/index.php/NAB

Offline heathen

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2017, 01:05:44 PM »
This artist has apparently allowed taping sporadically, but last night's show specifically said no audio recording.
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | Countryman B3 | CA-14 omnis | AT853 cards | AKG 460/ck61 | Studio Projects CS5
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Offline ilduclo

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2017, 01:06:38 PM »
I'd say no uploads, then :(

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2017, 09:42:36 PM »
So "you can't restore bass once you roll it off" isn't quite right — you might as well argue that rolling off bass is necessary because you can't restore treble that isn't recorded.

Maybe I am misinterpreting this, but I don't think it is really accurate.  Bass roll-off doesn't have any effect on higher frequencies, at least not in absolute terms, whereas it definitely reduces the low frequency content (both absolutely and relatively).  Depending on the corner and slope, you could lose some low frequency content to an extent that EQ'ing it back in would be difficult/impossible (particularly when coupled with proximity effects from directional microphones or with microphones that don't have good low frequency response to begin with).

You're misinterpreting this. If you roll off the bass, you have less overall signal, and therefore can turn up the gain more without clipping. More gain, more higher-frequency signal.

Quote
For the OP, given the sensitivity of those mics, you can probably go either mic-in (on low) or line-in for most shows.  According to the specs, there is an 8 dBu difference at the "default input level" (whatever that may be), so there is probably a pretty big overlap between the two.  If it is really loud, go line, and if it is really quiet, go mic...

Agreed. With the CA14 cards and an M10 (different mic and recorder, I know), my rule of thumb is "if I feel like I need earplugs, go line in, otherwise go mic in."

Offline aaronji

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2017, 06:28:27 AM »
You're misinterpreting this. If you roll off the bass, you have less overall signal, and therefore can turn up the gain more without clipping. More gain, more higher-frequency signal.

That's not the same thing as, "you might as well argue that rolling off bass is necessary because you can't restore treble that isn't recorded."  With the HPF, you are recording less information in total but the same amount of treble.  I don't see why you would opt for the blunt object of the roll-off, losing information at the recorder, when you can easily, and much more precisely, EQ away low frequency content you don't want (and/or add gain in higher frequencies where you think it is needed) on the computer...

Offline aaronji

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2017, 09:48:55 AM »
^ I guess it depends a lot on the specifics of the filter and what is being recorded.  On the small recorders I have owned, the filtering has been WAY too aggressive.  The low-cut on the Sony PCM-M10, for example, "starts at 200Hz, 24dB/Octave filter, effects both Mic and Line input".  Even with mics with good low frequency response (such as DPA 4060), that's quite a lot.  Dynamic range isn't a big concern, so it is better (for what I tape) to record it all and EQ the crud at the bottom that I don't want... 

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: A couple of newb questions
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2017, 11:40:49 PM »
Oh, yeah, the only times I've used a bass filter has been on a battery box that allowed a steady rolloff. And that was before I had a 24-bit recorder like an M10, where I can record lots of bits all over the place and EQ out what I don't need.

Just saying that bass rolloff isn't totally useless under all situations. If you use it in tandem with gain, it's a quick and dirty way to do some EQ before the signal gets recorded, if that's useful to you.

 

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