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Author Topic: Mini-Me Gain  (Read 3516 times)

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Offline scervin

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Mini-Me Gain
« on: April 07, 2003, 01:14:16 PM »
Just wondering how much gain (knob location) most are seeing when running mic in?

SC

Offline creekfreak

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Re:Mini-Me Gain
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2003, 01:21:14 PM »
all the times I ran it I was at about the 1/2 way point.
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Offline jlykos

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Re:Mini-Me Gain
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2003, 01:56:02 PM »
I usually end up running mine between 10:00 and 12:00.  Depends on the act and venue of course.
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Re:Mini-Me Gain
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2003, 06:58:09 PM »
Yes, absolutely, between 10 and 12/  Also, just an FYI, the soft-limit is really nice, and sounds pretty darn good.

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Offline RRobar

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Re:Mini-Me Gain
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2003, 08:20:24 AM »
Forgive the question. But what exactly does the soft limit do? I ask as at some point here I'll be running the mme Scott and I just bought. In what situations would you run the soft limit. Again, probably self explanatory, but sometimes I'm not so quick especially with new gear.
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Offline scervin

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Re:Mini-Me Gain
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2003, 09:47:42 AM »
Rob,
   We probably won't evr use it. It would be good when the crowd noise will be at a higher level than the actual music (acoustic shows, uamplified, etc..)  The soft limit is basically a limiter, but as the levels approach 0dB they are rolled as to not be such a noticable change.  The closer you get the more compressed it gets.  This means you can run levels based on the actual music and not loudest passage be it crowd or music.  I don't see us using it much....
SC

Offline Marc Nutter

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Re:Mini-Me Gain
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2003, 11:39:58 AM »
Hi scervin, dattaper_2000, and all,

Gain position, as already indicated, will probably be in the 10-12 O'clock position assuming typical rock concert volume (around 100dB at FOH) and the MiniMe sensitivity on low (as determined by the internal jumpers).

Soft Limit is a form of compression (as limiters are).  There are four parameters that comprise a compression circuit: attack, release, ratio, and threshold.

Attack: how fast the compression circuit kicks in after the threshold has been exceeded.

Release: how quickly the compression circuit lets go after the level drops below the threshold.

Ratio: The amount of gain achievable per dB of increase (ex: 2:1 means that for each additional 2dB of level increase from the source, the levels only go up 1 dB when leaving the compressor/limiter).  See the “OFF” line below as it illustrates a 1:1 ratio (ie. No compression—1dB in equals 1dB out).  The X-axis shows an increase in incoming level and the Y-axis is the output of the compressor/limiter.  Note how the curves of each of the compressor settings change at a certain point and their compression kicks in well below where “Soft Limit” does.   Take curve 3 as an example: From –30dBu to –10dBu, we see an output level that only changes from –14dBfs to –4dBfs.  This is a nearly perfect example of a 2:1 ratio. Then we see the transition zone (in this case between –10dB to –5dB ), known as the knee,  up to the –5dBfs to +15dBfs (a 20dB range) region above which we only see a 2dB increase in output level (a 10:1) ratio. This is an example of fairly heavy compression (with 2 and 3 being ever more drastic) assuming we are exceeding the –5dBu input levels on a regular basis.  Notice how “Soft Limit” only kicks in around –3dBfs, thereby only acting on the hottest of levels.  

Threshold: the level at which the compressor (or limiter) kicks in.  Below the threshold, no compression or limiting is technically taking place, but some compressors are still noticeable sonically.

Picture below Taken from Apogee manual:



Compressors are frequently used in studio recording applications on snare and kick drums, as well as vocals, and other very dynamic instruments in order to achieve good recording levels without clipping. The Soft Limit or other limiters are more common in the mastering stage in order to get all levels relatively high without clipping.   I bet Tim or Bri could expand on this.

In concert recording or mastering, the result is a hotter/louder recording overall. The hottest levels are held down enough to prevent clipping and the lower levels can be brought up.  This limits dynamic range but gives more “punch” or a more “in your face” quality.   I used soft limit on several hundred recording but later (especially once I started recording at 24-bit) gave it up in preference of the greater dynamic range (the difference between the hottest and the lowest levels of the recording).

The Apogee Mini Me manual on page 20 and 21 contains further explanation and application tips.
http://www.apogeedigital.com/pdf/minimeman.pdf

I hope this is helpful.

Happy Recording,

Marc


« Last Edit: April 08, 2003, 11:41:19 AM by Marc Nutter »

Offline RRobar

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Re:Mini-Me Gain
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2003, 12:13:35 PM »
I see! I kinda figured thats what it was all about. Just thought I'd ask
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Offline jlykos

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Re:Mini-Me Gain
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2003, 12:50:51 PM »
Rob,

     If you want to listen to what the SL does, check out the Jorma show that I gave Scott.  I used SL for it and it worked wonderfully on the crowd noise.  I did have the levels a bit down for the music, but you can turn up your stereo for that.  Best concert I have seen this year so far!
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Offline danmorgan

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Re:Mini-Me Gain
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2003, 01:15:42 AM »
Running mic-in set to low gain.  Mine usually sets between 10-12 o'clock as well.  The soft limit works quite well for acoustic.  I ran at YMSB around 1 o'clock(just a c_nt hair shy) with the soft limit on and found it to do great in this setting.  

I have not, and don't plan on using the curve settings at all.  I played with them at home here and disliked them tremendously

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re:Mini-Me Gain
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2003, 02:44:38 AM »
+T dan...... ;D

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Offline zhianosatch

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Re:Mini-Me Gain
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2003, 05:11:53 AM »
I sure could have used one of those soft limit mfers recording 3rd row at Keller Williams the other day. Music at -12, crowd at -2-0! Fuckers!

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Re:Mini-Me Gain
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2003, 02:05:19 PM »
Well Armen, sounds like you need a jukebox and a mini-me ;)  Marc, great post and very informative...although if I ever took thew time to read the mini-me manual again I think I could have figured it out...but hell, I am lazy, and real men don't read manuals right ;)

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Offline twoodruff

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Re:Mini-Me Gain
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2003, 03:15:51 PM »
oh no another graph, I cant read those dern things  :'(
 i read the interpretation and it makes sense but look at thegraph and makes that sense WOW advanced taping I'd say, no if someone can just friggin tell me if a neumann u89 will fit in the same shockmount as a ADK TL I'll be getting somewhere.


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Re:Mini-Me Gain
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2003, 01:23:09 PM »
I don't see why it wouldn't Trey.

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Re:Mini-Me Gain
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2003, 01:33:58 PM »
it does... it fits best in the ADK LE's? Whatever the non-switchable LD mic that ADK makes. and they're about 1/8 of the price... and 3/4 the size.

 

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