Author Topic: 192 DAC recommendations? (Read 8799 times)

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **on:** May 24, 2005, 08:34:40 PM »

Sold a DAC, preamp, speakers, and some ICs, so I can fund an upgrade. I have read all about the Bel Canto 2.0. The only thing I don't like about it is that it has a single input. I have multiple sources.

If the budget were a bit higher, say $1500-$1700 for a used piece, would there be an option better than the BC2.0 and worth the added (double) expense?

scb · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2005, 08:39:36 PM »

Mytek Stereo192-DSD DAC should be available one of these days

MattD · « **Reply #2 on:** May 24, 2005, 08:50:51 PM »

I wonder if they'll add more than just the DSD input. I'd love an optical also, since a lot of consumer gear uses it.

Tim · « **Reply #3 on:** May 24, 2005, 08:53:46 PM »

bel canto dac 2 has optical in and coax rca in

I actually have 2 coax sources so I just switch them out when I need to... but my room is small and it's a short walk over to the stereo from the recliner

it's the only thing I would change about the unit though

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #4 on:** May 24, 2005, 08:56:14 PM »

I don't see a lot of info about that unit. Does it support more than 2-ch audio (I'm not up on DSD). Where is Mytek gear in the 192DAC spectrum compared to Grace or Bel Canto (the only ones I really know)?

Yeah, I need multiple coax inputs and if possible I'd love to have one AES port.

Now to hijack my own thread:
Hey Matt, still thinking of doing Herndon festival? I just wrote my buddy about borrowing the 4023s that weekend.

edit: spelling

Tim · « **Reply #5 on:** May 24, 2005, 09:01:51 PM »

I can post some pics for you if you'd like as well

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #6 on:** May 24, 2005, 09:02:41 PM »

post away.

Tim · « **Reply #7 on:** May 24, 2005, 09:03:51 PM »

I'm about to head up to Boulder for some music but I'll throw some up tomorrow before I take off for Yellowstone

BobW · « **Reply #8 on:** May 24, 2005, 09:38:41 PM »

Does anyone have to say Benchmark DAC-1, the priced-fixed darling of the last year ?
It does sound great, but it is nothing short of impossible to see it for less that MSP of $975
A little competition will definitely help !

Also the Grace M902 has gotten a rave review in Stereophile this month.
I would have expected nothing less. Way to go Mike !

So tell me more about this DSD-DAC stuff. What would I feed it from ?
Why do I want it when 24/192 PCM sounds better than the best 1/4 " - 15 IPS Analogue tape that I ever heard ?

What can I use to create, save, and edit DSD files ?

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #9 on:** May 24, 2005, 10:12:35 PM »

OK, add benchmark. Can anyone rate these relative to one another?

scb · « **Reply #10 on:** May 24, 2005, 11:10:29 PM »

the mytek unit has both PCM AND DSD inputs. it does not convert everything to dsd. the dac in it can handle both formats

muj, you around to talk about the mytek sound?

Tim · « **Reply #11 on:** May 25, 2005, 04:08:18 AM »

Quote from: Lil' Kim Jong-Il on May 24, 2005, 10:12:35 PM

Can anyone rate these relative to one another?

I'd like to see that too

MattD · « **Reply #12 on:** May 25, 2005, 07:53:45 AM »

Yeah, Herndon Festival is still on my mind. I don't know what I'll show up for just yet, though.

BC · « **Reply #13 on:** May 25, 2005, 01:53:30 PM »

one more heavyweight contender and at a very reasonable price (~$1000), the Musical Fidelity X-DACv3.

Reviewed in the May stereophile, spectacular measured performance. I don't think the PDF's are up on the web yet, but from what I remember they looked very similar to the ones from a past MF converter:

http://stereophile.com/digitalsourcereviews/561/index6.html

I think that at this price range it is tough to go wrong with either this or the Benchmark DAC1. To be honest I think that these two can hold their own against converters costing 5x as much or more.

Happy shopping!
Ben

JasonSobel · « **Reply #14 on:** May 25, 2005, 02:40:02 PM »

Quote from: BC on May 25, 2005, 01:53:30 PM

I think that at this price range it is tough to go wrong with either this or the Benchmark DAC1. To be honest I think that these two can hold their own against converters costing 5x as much or more.

in a blind listening test, I prefered the grace 901 to the benchmark DAC1. based on that experience, I would recommend the 902 over the dac1 (I am assuming that the 902 would sound as least as good as the 901, although I have never heard the 902) that said, I also haven't heard the Musical Fidelity, so I can't give any opinion on that.

BobW · « **Reply #15 on:** May 25, 2005, 08:17:15 PM »

So no one can tell me why I might want DSD ?

scb · « **Reply #16 on:** May 25, 2005, 10:21:01 PM »

the mytek box does pcm. it just also does dsd. you don't need dsd for it

BobW · « **Reply #17 on:** May 26, 2005, 07:52:53 AM »

Still wanting to know what good DSD is, and how I can manipulate the files.
Sorry for being redundant, but I can't think of any editor that does DSD, nor any DSP that processes it.
So if I process in PCM, how does DSD make anything better ?

I thought that hi-res recording was ahead of ourselves (up to very recently).
I'm pretty sure that DSD is ahead of the world of practice as well.

I won't feel bad dropping my $$ on a PCM DAC of good quality.
In fact when the M902 craze starts, I'm grabbing a bargain DAC-1

scb · « **Reply #18 on:** May 26, 2005, 07:57:54 AM »

are you still referring to the mytek? it can take in a pcm input and do "normal" d/a conversion. or it can take a dsd stream and do d/a conversion on that. they are separate processes. I guess i'm just not understanding your question

BobW · « **Reply #19 on:** May 26, 2005, 02:38:57 PM »

Quote from: scott brown on May 26, 2005, 07:57:54 AM

are you still referring to the mytek? it can take in a pcm input and do "normal" d/a conversion. or it can take a dsd stream and do d/a conversion on that. they are separate processes. I guess i'm just not understanding your question

Where would I get a DSD stream ?
How would I manipulate a DSD file ?
How can I share DSD with others ?

Since SACD is inaccessible to all but the "professionals", I'm still unsure why I'd want the Mytek.
Do SACD players output DSD streams through their digi-outs ?

scb · « **Reply #20 on:** May 26, 2005, 06:36:55 PM »

>>Where would I get a DSD stream ?
How would I manipulate a DSD file ?
How can I share DSD with others ?<<

I'm not sure.

>>Since SACD is inaccessible to all but the "professionals", I'm still unsure why I'd want the Mytek.
Do SACD players output DSD streams through their digi-outs ?<<

Ignoring the DSD input, it does PCM, and from what i've heard from other Mytek dac's, it'll sound *very* good

it's the latest mytek dac. the fact that it also does dsd is irrelevant. i want it for pcm...

BobW · « **Reply #21 on:** May 26, 2005, 07:34:56 PM »

Quote from: scott brown on May 26, 2005, 06:36:55 PM

>>Where would I get a DSD stream ?
How would I manipulate a DSD file ?
How can I share DSD with others ?<<

I'm not sure.

>>Since SACD is inaccessible to all but the "professionals", I'm still unsure why I'd want the Mytek.
Do SACD players output DSD streams through their digi-outs ?<<

Ignoring the DSD input, it does PCM, and from what i've heard from other Mytek dac's, it'll sound *very* good

it's the latest mytek dac. the fact that it also does dsd is irrelevant. i want it for pcm...

Ah ! Now I get it.
I still think there may be future in DSD, I'm just darned if I know what it is yet.

cfox · « **Reply #22 on:** May 29, 2005, 11:20:57 AM »

Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 24-192 DAC

BobW · « **Reply #23 on:** May 30, 2005, 09:05:56 AM »

Quote from: m0k3 on May 29, 2005, 04:09:51 PM

Quote from: Lower-Powered on May 26, 2005, 02:38:57 PM
Quote from: scott brown on May 26, 2005, 07:57:54 AM
are you still referring to the mytek? it can take in a pcm input and do "normal" d/a conversion. or it can take a dsd stream and do d/a conversion on that. they are separate processes. I guess i'm just not understanding your question

Where would I get a DSD stream ?
How would I manipulate a DSD file ?
How can I share DSD with others ?

Since SACD is inaccessible to all but the "professionals", I'm still unsure why I'd want the Mytek.
Do SACD players output DSD streams through their digi-outs ?

I've got your DSD streams

DSD DAC?
and I'm on probation!!

Bob,
As I understand it, the Tascam DSD recorders are a whole step ahead of affordable consumer editing programs. Discwelder Bronze is reported to be able to process DSD to DVD-A, but still very pricy at present. The forum computer geeks are also reporting that it will be likely very affordable by next year as software prices drop.
So for now, we master and store, waiting for processing gear to catch up. Right now, I'm hand placing track marks live during the performance, just to put some place marks on the disc.

Thanks !

Simp-Dawg · « **Reply #24 on:** May 30, 2005, 12:38:35 PM »

it's been brought up by name but not really discussed...the grace m902 does just about everything you've been asking for except for multiple coax inputs...it has aes, toslink, coax, and usb for 16/44.1 files. it also has balanced and unbalanced analog inputs for other sources, and unbalanced outs to drive an amp+speakers or just powered monitors. it sounds spectacular, though i haven't put it up against anything else...i may take it down to tim's place sometime to compare to his dac.

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #25 on:** May 30, 2005, 01:17:02 PM »

The m902 is an integrated DAC and preamp? I'm not sure if I'm ready to give up the PV14 (I have multiple analog sources as well) but it has a theater pass through mode that would work if I ran the 902 behind the denon. On the other hand, the m902 may be a better preamp than the PV14.

I want multiple coax for the disc transport and DAT, although I don't listen to the DAT much so I guess I could swap wires when needed.

I'm still interested in opinions on how all these options rank against one another. I realize that it is system and material dependent to a degree. I have not owned a DAC at this level. So I'm just trying to get a feel for where in the ranking I can afford to play. I could stretch a little to get something I won't need to upgrade for a few years. (notice I said "need". around here, we don't upgrade because we "want" to, we do it because we "need" to).

I don't supposed all you guys want to fly in with your gear for a weekend DAC shootout.

Simp-Dawg · « **Reply #26 on:** May 30, 2005, 01:41:47 PM »

Quote from: Lil' Kim Jong-Il on May 30, 2005, 01:17:02 PM

The m902 is an integrated DAC and preamp?

well...my understanding of playback terms is basically zilch...i don't know if this is considered a preamp or not or even what constitutes one...what i can tell you is it is a high quality headphone amp and has line level outputs, so i guess that's a preamp.

Quote

I don't supposed all you guys want to fly in with your gear for a weekend DAC shootout.

if you're buyin, i'm flyin!

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #27 on:** May 30, 2005, 02:01:21 PM »

Are the m902 RCA line outputs straight line level or are they adjustable using the same control that adjusts the headphone amp volume? Do you run your m902 unballanced analog outs straight into your main system amplifier and then control the volume using the m902 panel? If so, its also a line level preamp. I looked at the grace site and it seemed like it was a DAC/headphone amp with line outs from the DAC to feed the line stage preamp in a full sized stereo. I think remember Doug Oade talking about using a Grace headphone amp but there was something about using it like a linestage preamp required a 1/4" TRS to unbalanced RCA converter.

If I'm buying any tickets, I'm flying out to Colorado. ;-) I've been wanting to get back to Boulder for a visit.

Simp-Dawg · « **Reply #28 on:** May 30, 2005, 02:27:36 PM »

well shit, come on out!

yeah the volume control on the m902 controls the rca outs as well...i use it to drive my powered alesis monitors (see sig). a push of the rotary volume knob allows you to switch control of the rca outs or headphone outs...and there's a feature to have exclusive output, so either monitors or 'phones, or both. it really is a slick machine.

JasonSobel · « **Reply #29 on:** May 30, 2005, 04:50:38 PM »

Quote

I think remember Doug Oade talking about using a Grace headphone amp but there was something about using it like a linestage preamp required a 1/4" TRS to unbalanced RCA converter.

that's for the grace 901, the pre-curser to the m902. The 901 only had 1/4" headphones outputs (2 of them). The m902 added RCA outputs in the rear, and upgraded the internal DAC (which was already very nice in the 901, but improved jitter control and now up to 192 kHz with the m902. (the DAC inside the 901 is limited to 96kHz)). also, I think a remote control feature was added to the m902. On the analog things, I think a couple of minor things were improved with the m902, but basically the same as the analog stage as the 901 (hard to beat analog grace amps, IMO). There is probably other things that are different between the 901 and the m902, but I don't recall them right now.

to read what a few of us on this board thought when doing a direct comparison between the Grace 901 and the Benchmark DAC1, check out this thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=41121.0

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #30 on:** May 30, 2005, 05:14:43 PM »

Thanks, so that puts the grace slightly ahead of the benchmark.

I can see a benefit of using the m902 over the others. Almost all my listening in the main system is from DVD now so I don't even use the PV14L line stage except for volume. If I use the m902 as a linestage to feed my amp directly, I could eliminate one box and one pair of ICs in the chain and that can't be a bad thing. So another point in favor of the Grace unit.

I want to hear the review after Simp takes his m902 to Tim's place ot compare with the BC2.0.

BobW · « **Reply #31 on:** May 31, 2005, 01:10:29 PM »

Quote from: Lil' Kim Jong-Il on May 30, 2005, 05:14:43 PM

Thanks, so that puts the grace slightly ahead of the benchmark.

I can see a benefit of using the m902 over the others. Almost all my listening in the main system is from DVD now so I don't even use the PV14L line stage except for volume. If I use the m902 as a linestage to feed my amp directly, I could eliminate one box and one pair of ICs in the chain and that can't be a bad thing. So another point in favor of the Grace unit.

I want to hear the review after Simp takes his m902 to Tim's place ot compare with the BC2.0.

Not to make the choice more difficult...
The benchmark puts out like 2 volts as well. It could replace a pre in many applications.
USB on the Grace only allows 16/44.1 (why I'm not sure)

Life was so easy when playback devices had only two knobs

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #32 on:** May 31, 2005, 02:39:14 PM »

Quote from: Lower-Powered on May 31, 2005, 01:10:29 PM

Not to make the choice more difficult...
The benchmark puts out like 2 volts as well. It could replace a pre in many applications.

The benchmark has an analog level control?

scb · « **Reply #33 on:** May 31, 2005, 03:07:06 PM »

Author Topic: 192 DAC recommendations? (Read 8799 times)

BobW

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