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Author Topic: AKG C34 / C422 switchable pattern visualization  (Read 10414 times)

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Offline Brian Skalinder

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AKG C34 / C422 switchable pattern visualization
« on: October 16, 2007, 01:07:59 PM »
Here're some generic images of what the C34 (and I assume C422, as they use the same control box) patterns look like from each of the steps on the S42 selector box.  Big Assumption:  each step on the S42 adjusts the pattern in equal increments.  There are 9 steps on the S42 selector box, from omni (step 1) through cardioid (step 5) to figure-8 (step 9).

Found the interim steps interesting.  Looks like step 6 is similar to supercardioid and step 7 similar to hypercardioid.  Curious to try out the two interim positions between card and omni.  :)

Images generated with the Schoeps DMS plug-in.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 12:00:40 AM by Brian Skalinder »
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Offline Tim

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Re: AKG C34 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2007, 01:12:41 PM »
that's cool, thanks for posting
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Offline Sanjay

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Re: AKG C34 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2007, 02:21:45 PM »
that's cool thanks!  Always wondered how exactly they looked.
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Offline mmedley.

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Re: AKG C34 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2007, 02:50:36 PM »
4 looks like it might be a winner.  ;D
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: AKG C34 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2007, 03:42:20 PM »
4 looks like it might be a winner.  ;D

I've run step 4 once, ~105º.  Turned out well, but not great - venue sound was just so-so.  Wish I'd run a wider angle on it, too.  Actually, I wish I had an SRA Diagram showing angular distortion and reverberation limits for each of the steps.
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Re: AKG C34 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2007, 04:13:08 PM »
I think 4 at 120* would sound pretty nice.

Offline macdaddy

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Re: AKG C34 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2007, 07:44:02 PM »
these would be the same for the c422, 'cos it uses the same pattern box, right..?

+t

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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: AKG C34 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2007, 10:26:43 AM »
these would be the same for the c422, 'cos it uses the same pattern box, right..?

Seems a reasonable assumption, but again...another assumption to go along with the ones in the original post.  Updated original post to reflect c422, as well.

Not sure about the C422, but C34 users note:  it's not possible to set up Mid-Side correctly if one sticks with the traditional channel assignments of 1 = left and 2 = right.  Viewed from the top of the mic, looking down its long axis, the top/right/side/ch2 cap rotates clockwise 180º relative to the fixed bottom/left/mid/ch1 cap.  This means the top/right/side cap's positive (+) lobe in figure-8 points to the right of the bottom/left/mid cap in Mid-Side.  However, the standard for Mid-Side appears to call for the side channel's positive (+) lobe facing left of the mid.  The result of this positive (+) lobe facing right instead of left when running mid-side?  Upon decoding, L/R channels are switched (as explained here).  To fix, simply invert the right/side channel prior to decoding, or assign ch1 = right/side and ch2 = left/mid.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 12:00:30 AM by Brian Skalinder »
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Offline Stagger

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Re: AKG C34 / C422 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2007, 09:06:57 PM »
Most of the better tapes I made with the c34 were at 7 XY 90deg. I think with some of today's pres and recorders tough it might be a bit bright. With an EAA and AD1K it was perfect.
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Offline macdaddy

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Re: AKG C34 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2007, 09:19:15 PM »
these would be the same for the c422, 'cos it uses the same pattern box, right..?

Not sure about the C422, but C34 users note:  it's not possible to set up Mid-Side correctly.  Viewed from the top of the mic, looking down its long axis, the top/right/side cap rotates clockwise 180º relative to the fixed bottom/left/mid cap.  This means the top/right/side cap's positive (+) lobe in figure-8 points to the right of the bottom/left/mid cap in Mid-Side.  However, the standard for Mid-Side appears to call for the side channel's positive (+) lobe facing left of the mid.  The result of this positive (+) lobe facing right instead of left when running mid-side?  Upon decoding, L/R channels are switched (as explained here).  To fix, simply invert the right/side channel prior to decoding.

i always thought the top was the left channel.

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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: AKG C34 / C422 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2007, 09:56:12 PM »
I always ran my 422 and the c34 at #5 cards, ...if it was a little shitty location wise, one click up to 6.  If it was a really nice FOB, then one click back to #4.

but i've run all over that s42 dial, and then some.

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: AKG C34 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2007, 11:59:04 PM »
i always thought the top was the left channel.

I always interpreted the markings on the front of the S42E as ch1 = fixed (bottom) cap, and ch2 = rotating (top) cap.  Just tested and this is correct.  And I've always mentally assigned (and seen most gear reference) ch1 = left, and ch2 = right.  That said, one may map the caps anyway one likes, and it definitely makes sense to switch 1/2 (L/R) with respect to Mid-Side - the top/mid/(now left) cap then faces forward, with the bottom/side/(now right) cap faces sideways with the positive (+) lobe to the left.
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: AKG C34 / C422 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2007, 12:16:58 AM »
backwardsass

the top is right.  its the top that rotates while the bottom is fixed (and aligned w/the AKG logo).
however...
the c34, when you twist it to its 90deg fixed angle...the top points left.
you can turn in the other way and make it the other channel..., but its backwards from the other AKG stereo mics of this nature.

most mics are labeled A and B or just TOP and BOTTOM so that the user can determine.
Its just sort of mental standard for me that the rotating part of a stereo mic is always the right channel.  purely for MS reasons, or if the mic goes that way by default (c4xx,lsd,peluso..etc).


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Re: AKG C34 / C422 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2007, 12:58:44 AM »
Actual MS recording calls for a Figure 8 pattern mic picking up left and right sound and a cardiod mic picking up the center sound, then you use a M/S decoder to split the figure 8 to L+R channels (you can do it manually on a mixer but it's kind of complicated).  Pretty cool config since you can control the stereo image width manually.
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: AKG C34 / C422 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2007, 07:10:47 AM »
right.  got that.
its the part about which channel (raw) is right and which is let.
all MS decoding software wants the side info on the right channel.

Offline Evil Taper

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Re: AKG C34 / C422 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2007, 07:00:59 PM »
Why not just mix with 3 channels?
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Re: AKG C34 / C422 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2007, 07:07:49 PM »
Why not just mix with 3 channels?

I think that it's much easier to just fire up a m/s decoder plugin as opposed to mixing 3 mono channels together, inverting phase, grouping the 2 side channels, etc.  It does the same thing, but requires a lot less system resources, time, etc.
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Offline macdaddy

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Re: AKG C34 / C422 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2012, 09:04:03 PM »
i am in complete agreement with channel assignments discussed above (right/top/2, left/bottom/1) and apparently was too green to figure out the diagrams on the s42...

however, in rereading this thread (i was looking at the pattern diagram earlier), i am still confused how to orient the positive on the fig8 and which cap should be which pattern. i always thought the positive face of the fig 8 cap was supposed to face left. but that doesnt work like it should with the c422. then nick says in this thread that it should be right, and that all software expects it that way (which would work with the c422 like it seems it should). but this seems to work with c422 only if the top is the fig 8 and the bottom is the card. i always thought the top should be the mid, and the bottom should be the side. so which is it..? does it really matter..? or am i not seeing it correctly, and/or not rotating the c422 properly..?

btw, this is why i have never really run the mic m/s all these years. it is also probably why the few recordings i have made running m/s have sucked balls...
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Offline newplanet7

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Re: AKG C34 / C422 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2012, 10:02:00 PM »
I think JAson (bhtoque) has the s42 & 422. Maybe drop him a PM?
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Offline macdaddy

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Re: AKG C34 / C422 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2015, 07:29:54 PM »
The pic in the initial post has disappeared...

Anybody know where to find it again..? Google is coming up empty for me...
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Offline kalona

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Re: AKG C34 / C422 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2016, 12:03:31 PM »
9 patterns on s42

Offline macdaddy

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Re: AKG C34 / C422 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2016, 10:52:23 PM »
Thanks for posting...

1=omni
5=cardioid
6=supercardioid
7=hypercardiod
9=fig 8

..?
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Offline kalona

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Re: AKG C34 / C422 switchable pattern visualization
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2016, 02:44:07 PM »
Maybe this would be helpful as well,
info from the C426b manual

 

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