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Author Topic: NEW SNAKE OIL: R-09HR DECK MODIFICATION  (Read 33496 times)

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Offline dave570

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Re: NEW SNAKE OIL: R-09HR DECK MODIFICATION
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2008, 04:32:25 PM »
OK, so I have an un-modified (stock) AT822 mic and R-09HR. No battery box or preamp. If I was to do external mic recording (which I have yet to do), what settings do I use for a semi-loud rock show (about 200 feet away)?

Offline rastasean

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Re: NEW SNAKE OIL: R-09HR DECK MODIFICATION
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2008, 06:42:45 PM »
OK, so I have an un-modified (stock) AT822 mic and R-09HR. No battery box or preamp. If I was to do external mic recording (which I have yet to do), what settings do I use for a semi-loud rock show (about 200 feet away)?


heh. I would tell you to use the good luck setting.

The 822 isn't really THAT desirable for music recording unless its stage-lip. In this case, I imagine you will have to pump the gain up quite a bit.
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Offline guysonic

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Re: NEW SNAKE OIL: R-09HR DECK MODIFICATION
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2008, 03:38:54 AM »
Nice work! +T

Digifish performed a test recently comparing the stock R-09HR with good, quiet mics and a battery box to the same mics feeding through a Sound Devices MixPre.  The benefit of the preamp (which costs $650) was immediately apparent.

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,105893.msg1443847.html#msg1443847

Flintstone

 :djsmilie: Downloaded, 12 dB amplified, and auditioned the ticking clock test agreeing this comparison reveals lower noise and less complex, more 'damped' ticking sound using the external preamplifier.  This helps confirm my own 'chimes test' impressions the internal deck preamp is adding audible colorful artifacts not heard when deck's LINE input is fed by a more accurate preamplifier.

 :police: However, when we do these types of tests, we must be careful of test variables from mic powering/input loading effects, and any mic placement variations

One thing noticed from viewing digifish's photos of the test setup was the internal preamp mic placement showed the mics more distant from the clock, and each side-by-side mic showed more distance from each other than during the external preamp setup. 

While seemingly a small difference to the eye, the very sensitive-to-mic-placement nature of this clock tick test makes me think variations seen in the photo of mic placement skewed the results a bit.  Audible impressions favoring the external preamplifier's lower noise may in part be due to having closer position mics=better Signal-to-Noise (S/N) results.  This is of course assuming the photos are accurately depicting actual test conditions.

The side-by-side increased mic spacing during MIC input test also affects the audible ticking sound character.

:hmmm: Even with mic position variations, I think the generally agreed benefits of using an external preamp findings still holds up.

However, suggest next time doing a clock test like this is to both tape down the clock AND the mics so nothing is moved by changing cables/external gear between tests like seems happened with this test.  :)
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Offline digifish_music

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Re: NEW SNAKE OIL: R-09HR DECK MODIFICATION
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2008, 06:14:44 AM »

 :police: However, when we do these types of tests, we must be careful of test variables from mic powering/input loading effects, and any mic placement variations

One thing noticed from viewing digifish's photos of the test setup was the internal preamp mic placement showed the mics more distant from the clock, and each side-by-side mic showed more distance from each other than during the external preamp setup. 


The pictures were for illustration purposes only. The actual test was performed with the mic and clock position unchanged. I only swapped the preamp for the phantom supply. I will also note that the noise differences are even more obvious when you use the balanced-out on the MixPre rather than the tape out that is -10 dB compared to the balanced out.

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Offline Dede2002

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Re: NEW SNAKE OIL: R-09HR DECK MODIFICATION
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2008, 08:12:33 PM »
Guysonic,
Great contribution ;)
+T
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Offline surf1div1

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Re: NEW SNAKE OIL: R-09HR DECK MODIFICATION
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2008, 12:01:19 PM »
I had to make that choice and it was for stealth, and money (R-09HR). I know that the incremental cost of the Sony isn't that much, but I'm doubtful for the type of recording I do (louder concerts) that I would of benefited from the qualitative differences in the mic input of the Sony. Since to date ALL of my recordings use line in, I believe that the benefits of this mod would work for me if I went MIC in. It appears to me, that this mod would benefit mostly those that want the PIP feature that Guy Sonic is offering. I guess that IS the main point, and I applaud his input.


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now you just complicate the hell out of things! I really don't know what one I like more now.
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