Topic: Tascam DR680 or Sony D50, best long-term investment

[Jema]

Hello!

Another thread on what to buy, but please be gentle. While I usually search extensively on items I'm interested in and can make up my own mind, this has me at a loss, so I'm asking for more information and user experiences. One is a DR680 for 750-850 dollars with warranty (about 1200 new in Sweden), and a D50 with accessories which is asking for 500, but I would be offering 400 (750 new).

I'm interested in one of these as primarily a field recorder for film dialogue, and while I know that's not what most of you are doing, since you test all equipment quite thoroughly you might give me some insight. I will probably get a more professional multichannel recorder (SD, Zacxom etc) when I get bigger and more serious jobs, but I'm looking for something to use in the meantime and for smaller gigs (it would later become a backup, and maybe in the case of D50 a plant recorder/mic).

The DR680 would give me 6 channels with phantom power, pretty low noise, and decent ergonomics in a bag. An external power source would be required for maybe an extra 100 dollars. It's quite a new product though, not a very sturdy build, and I've read a lot of scary stories about malfunctioning units (but most owners here seem to agree that they would still buy it again for the amazing value). Maybe it's not worth it if it would ever slow down a shoot becouse of malfunction, and I don't know how long I can expect to be able to use it. 2 years? 5 years or longer?

The D50 has 2 channels, good running time on AA-batteries, decent preamps with high gain (good enough with somewhat quiet mics and low dialogue? Some nature recordists find it a tad noisy), but it would require an external box for phantom power, adding 50-80 dollars. The ergonomics is a bit worse, but I could probably find a way to get good monitoring of the meters in use, and if I get a mixer in the future this would not be a problem. It's been around for about 4 years, and seems to be quite sturdy in build and reliability, so I think I could expect a long time running it. Since I already have a Zoom H2 that I use quite frequently, the portability and internal mics of the D50 would also make it an upgrade and replacement to that.

So, regarding feature vs cost, the DR680 offers amazing value, but the question is if it's reliable enough? Am I better off with only 2, but more dependable, channels on the sturdier D50?

Thanks in advance!


This question has also been posted by me in on the dvxuser forum - those interested can look at those responses too.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?265004-Best-long-term-investment-Sony-D50-or-Tascam-DR680#post2454483

[rastasean]

The question is: do you need to record more than two tracks at a time.

[DigiGal]

Why limit yourself with only those two options?  There are better choices for your interim needs.

Best to get a recorder with XLR inputs the D50 does not have them and the DR680 appears to be like Russian Roulette.

[Jema]

More is better, but two good and dependable tracks is better than six mediocre and unstable ones.

What I mean is that of course I would love, and make use of, more than two tracks, but if the DR680 is a bit unstable or wont last as long for my uses then I'd rather go with two tracks. The reason for this limited selection of equipments is because I can get both used right now, and it's quite rare in Sweden. I'm just looking to get a good deal.

[fmaderjr]

I'm interested in one of these as primarily a field recorder for film dialogue, and while I know that's not what most of you are doing, since you test all equipment quite thoroughly you might give me some insight. I will probably get a more professional multichannel recorder (SD, Zacxom etc) when I get bigger and more serious jobs, but I'm looking for something to use in the meantime and for smaller gigs (it would later become a backup, and maybe in the case of D50 a plant recorder/mic).

The DR680 would give me 6 channels with phantom power, pretty low noise, and decent ergonomics in a bag. Maybe it's not worth it if it would ever slow down a shoot becouse of malfunction, and I don't know how long I can expect to be able to use it. 2 years? 5 years or longer?

I think you may have answered your own question. A number of us have had major problems with DR680's, usually in way less than 2 years. Maybe the D50 isn't ideal for you, but I certainly wouldn't get a DR680.

[F.O.Bean]

Dont forget about the DR2D

[Jema]

fmaderjr: It's funny, someone at dvxuser said close to the opposite - he didn't like the idea of not having xlr-inputs, and thought the DR680 would last me at least 4-5 years if I didn't mistreat it (thereby not saying it was an ideal choice, just the better of the two).

F.O.Bean: I considered the DR2D some time ago, but I didn't like the specs of it's preamps. I'd rather go the route of an M10, but they cost about 350 dollars in sweden.

Maybe I should wait and invest in something that is more closely fitting my bill. It seems the lowest price to pay for a stable multitrack recorder with good preamps might be the R-4 Pro (the R-44 I've heard is a bit noisy, but good value with a mixer in front). I don't think I'll ever find an SD-mixer used, as that would otherwise be the way to go I think.

[fmaderjr]

fmaderjr: It's funny, someone at dvxuser said close to the opposite - he didn't like the idea of not having xlr-inputs, and thought the DR680 would last me at least 4-5 years if I didn't mistreat it (thereby not saying it was an ideal choice, just the better of the two).

I just said not to get a DR680. Our guys don't mistreat them and many have had problems. Too bad you can't get an Edirol R-44 at a good price if 4 channels would be enough for you. For 2 channels I'd rather have the D50 with a preamp if I needed XLR inputs (the Naiant Little-boxes are great and quite reasonable, at least in the US).

Or even though I got a dud with my Busman FR2-LE, everyone else seems to love them and this one is a steal:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=149737.0
perhaps reasonable enough that it is even a bargain with shipment and duty to your country.

[NOLAfishwater]

get the 680. It will give you the flexibility to add more tracks. matrix > 2channel audience recording. later down the line if you buy an external preamp with digital output you can feed tracks 7-8. I have been super happy with mine.

[fmaderjr]

Some people love it, some people have had it crap out on them. Sounds like a good machine when its working, but you have to decide if its worth the risk.

Lots of people were selling R-44's and buying the DR680 when it first came out. After all the complaints about the DR680's reliability, you don't see too many R-44's for sale any more.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

fmaderjr: It's funny, someone at dvxuser said close to the opposite - he didn't like the idea of not having xlr-inputs, and thought the DR680 would last me at least 4-5 years if I didn't mistreat it (thereby not saying it was an ideal choice, just the better of the two).

The problem is that the DR680 hasn't been out even close to that long to verify if this is true; it's purely conjecture on the part of whomever said that.  Not saying it can't/won't happen, just that some of the stories that have been written about this deck on the forum aren't reassuring.

F.O.Bean: I considered the DR2D some time ago, but I didn't like the specs of it's preamps. I'd rather go the route of an M10, but they cost about 350 dollars in sweden.

Maybe I should wait and invest in something that is more closely fitting my bill. It seems the lowest price to pay for a stable multitrack recorder with good preamps might be the R-4 Pro (the R-44 I've heard is a bit noisy, but good value with a mixer in front). I don't think I'll ever find an SD-mixer used, as that would otherwise be the way to go I think.

If I remember correctly, I recall the folks at Edirol/Roland saying that the R-44 has the same preamps as the R-4 pro.  I'd guess they're at least on par with those of the Sony recorders.  Going on 3 years with my stock R-44 and I haven't had any issues with them being noisy.

Some people love it [the Tascam DR680], some people have had it crap out on them. Sounds like,e a good machine when its working, but you have to decide if its worth the risk.

Lots of people were selling R-44's and buying this when it first came out. After all the complaints about its reliability you don't see too many R-44's for sale any more.

True on all counts.

[Ozpeter]

Panatrope's Third Law of Recording - you always seem to need one more channel than you actually have available.

[Jema]

fmaderjr: Thanks for the tip on the FR2-LE, but I was too late. It was a great deal, and just might have been worth it with shipping etc (the thing that usually kills buying internationally in sweden is that we have to pay 25% taxes on everything, even used, and it's counted in after shipping and customs - the real cost could become up to the double).

Fried Chicken Boy: Sorry, I confused the R-44 with the earlier R-4. Searched for some info, and it does seem like the R-44 and the R-4 Pro uses the same preamps. This is great news, as I've used the R-4 Pro several times and quite like it - the preamps are definately good enough in my opinion. The only bad thing is it's limiter and HPF that is not very good for film and more fitted for music, but otherwise a very solid recorder. I have to be on the lookout for one!

"Panatrope's Third Law of Recording - you always seem to need one more channel than you actually have available."
This is painfully true... But for film, maybe it's a good thing that we don't have too many tracks. It would take a lot of time to manage them in post, and I imagine it's easy to get sloppy and instead of trying to get a few good channels just hook up more mics and hope they cover what you need.

[Jema]

Did some more searching, and too bad - the R-44 and the R-4 Pro does not seem to be created equal in the preamp departement

Found a post from someone who have tried both and also confirmed with Edirol that there are differences.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?165469-Edirol-R44-versus-Fostex-FR-2LE-best-pre-s

Another test I found shows the R-44 as having an EIN of -112.7 A-weighted, while the R-4 Pro has -128.4dB A-weighted. Pretty big difference.
https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/type/www/audio-reports/RecorderList/docs/R-44_R4-Pro_FR2_LundstenMeas.htm

So, from that it seems the R-44 is out of the picture (at least buying new).

[fmaderjr]

I just read this post by Busman and perhaps the 680 might be worth the risk to you if you power it with a 12 volt source instead of the 9 volts most of us have used:

It is not Tascam's fault that we want to use power supplies that do not supply the specified voltage that is marked directly on the unit itself.  I have sold a large amount of modified units to many TV/film sound people without any problems,  I am not sure what type of powering solutions are being used by these operators.

I did have a problem with a unit I had purchased for myself but again it was being powered with a 9v DVD battery and since have switched what I use. I blame myself for not using the proper power supply. 

I just feel that Tascam is being run through the ringer here for a problem they did not create.  They put out a product that is unrivaled in the amount of features for the price so maybe they cut a corner or two that would not happen if you spent $5000 but I for one sure don't have $5000 for a hobby recorder.  those corners that may have been cut may not cause problems if the instructions with the unit were followed correctly.  12v power means 12v power and if you use anything else then the you must accept the consequences if problems arise.

I still feel this unit is the best choice for a multichannel recorder that is under $1000.