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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: Tim on April 02, 2003, 03:55:24 PM
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Okay so I am now seeing the Nomad recommended all the time to people who are looking at buying a DAT. Frankly I am a little suprised by this for a few reasons...
1. Optical input, I have no desire to drag a CO2 around with me, supply it with batteries etc. It just seems like more crap to deal with than it is worth. Optical cables are sensitive and small and nowhere near as robust as coaxial or aes, they make me nervous
2. Bit accuracy, I know there have been some recent firmware upgrades but I still haven't seen anyone say that it is 100% bit accurate. I guess I am being really anal but to me if it is not 100% bit accurate I do not want it as my primary recording machine/media. Some will say "but you can't hear it", but how do you know? I know people that can hear a difference between a 44.1 and 48k DAT tape. I collect and tape for aural pleasure but I also view my collection as a library of sorts and I want the best copy for my library. At this point I am not convinced that the JB3 gives me that
I know Jamie Lutch has spent more time with the JB3 than just about every other owner combined and he hasn't fully endorsed it, to me that says something.
Then again, what the hell do I really know? I wish someone could convince me that the JB3 is really a viable alternative to DAT... I could see using it as a backup in the field but not as my primary recording media, not yet.
One more thing that is tangently related to this, if the JB3 is not a viable alternative then I say hold onto your DAT machines as it looks like it could be a while before we have a good, reliable and affordable HD solution. Zaxcom is way behind and it looks like it could cost $2k+. The CoreSound looks interesting but I still think it could be a while before all of the kinks and bugs are worked out enough to make me 100% comfortable with it.
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My issue with the JB3 (having never used one) is the CO2 interface. I have heard way too many horror stories about them to use it under any circumstances. Pops, surges, and dropout stories abound. I can handle a few dropped bits over the course of a 3-hour recording if they do not impact the sound. I cannot handle pops and dropouts in a recording under any circumstances.
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I agree with everything you said. I have been looking at the Nomad for a while, because I, like everyone else, is looking for the DAT replacement, but honestly, from what I have read of peoples experiences with it...I will be sticking with DAT for a while.
I gotta say though that I am amazed at the number of people who advise against buying a DAT since the portable HD solution is "right around the corner." Honestly, I have only been taping for a little over two years, and I have heard this since I started.
DAT is now, and will be for the foreseeable future, the best option for the taper that does a variety of taping (including stealth, otherwise a laptop is a fair alternative).
Personally, I think I would rather buy a used DAT from a reputable seller than a new Jukebox...
Nick
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The nomads look more like a toy than a professional recording device. I am the second owner of a D3 that works great. Will the JB3 still be working after 11 years of use? Only time will tell. If they had been out several years ago when I bought a mini disc I may have bought one instead if they were around the same price.
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I've used my NJB 3 for almost a year now and haven't had a problem yet.
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lemme tell you why the nomad works for me. I needed something for the immediate patching purposes that I could also have some use at home with. I am going to move back to a laptop solution eventually, but first comes other purchases. Not ony can I patch with my nomad, but I can put it in my jersey pocket on those lone desolate rides here in Southern Indiana. Finally, the ability to firewire my shows to my hard drive is a major reason. DAT transfers are a PAIN.
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this topic has been debated in other threads here already. ;)
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yah but did i mention my jersies before? :-P
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First, thanks Jonny. The features that you mention are certainly good reasons to run a nomad.
Second, I realize that this has been discussed in the past. However, I'm not asking what the pros/cons are of jb3 v. DAT. What I want to know is how/why someone can recommend the JB3 to a newbie over DAT given all of the known issues with the JB3?
Oh and FWIW, Jamie Lutch ragged on the JB3 again today on the Oade board. I laughed...
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ok, the primary reason above all other reasons for me would be the knowledge that you would be moving to a laptop within a year or two, a jb3 would CERTAINLY give you that much life and more, and didnt want to drop a grand in the mean time.
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good point jonny!!!!!!! ;).......i've been looking into one of those just till i get a laptop....... ;D
bean
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I am going to pick one up to run as a backup for my dat.
Adn if the show runs well on the jb3 use it to transfer. B/c i do not want to transfer dats if there is a 300$ solution to make it easier.
Its just money right. ;D
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ok, the primary reason above all other reasons for me would be the knowledge that you would be moving to a laptop within a year or two, a jb3 would CERTAINLY give you that much life and more, and didnt want to drop a grand in the mean time.
How have your recrodings been? And noticable difference between it and DAT? I would like to go the route of laptop/ HD recorder(when one comes out) but dont have the experience yet and dont know if i will like to tape or not. So this seem like the safest route for me to go.
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I ordered one the other dayfor the obvious reason of easy transfers, and because it coincides more with the original idea I had when I started taping.
I started taping about a year ago with a minidisc and the intention of eventually going laptop. The minidisc was great and a cheap way to start, but had its downfalls.
I went to dat bascially for the extended recording times and the higher quality( not starting the same old argument), but was still unhappy with the time involved in doing transfers and the I guess daintiness of the player( I baby my stuff, and the dat seems like the most prone to damage).
So here I am with a jb3 on the way...I have been toying with the idea of getting one for a while now, and have been reading post after post about their pros and cons.
This will be my 3rd recording device in less than a year, so you could say that I'm doing it because I feel like this or something like it is the future, and I'm trying to get in early as to figure out for myself if this is the way to go(I can always sell it on ebay) or because I'm slutting around ;).
Either way I am getting a new recorder with a 3 yr warranty for less than I paid for my dat player (<$300) and it will only take me about 20 min to transfer a 3 hr show!!! cant wait!!!! ;D
bush
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i don't think there are any more issues with the JB3 than with DAT personally. my reasons for recommending the JB3 over DAT for a beginner are as follows:
1) cost (both initially and ongoing with tape)
2) ease of use (no 7-pin/ active- passive issues/ learning to check the D8 for misload/ 60- 90M issues, etc.)
3) storage capabilities (record a whole run/ festival etc.)
4) Transfer benefits (Firewire solves so many issues/ no soundcard needed/ no buffer underruns/ SPEED!)
that being said, i probably wouldn't recommend this to someone looking to go analog in to the unit. for a patcher/ digital recorder, i personally think it's fine. if someone experiences a dropped bit here or there, what's the big deal? just because DAT has error correction doesn't mean it ALWAYS does it properly.
if we're going to worry about dropped bits in the JB3, then we better start worrying what all these people are using for DAT to HD transfer. as a whole, i would imagine many more dropped bits/ artifacts are introduced there than through the use of all JB3s combined.
anyway, these are my reasons for recommending the JB3 to a Newb over DAT. YMMV. ;)
~S
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that being said, i probably wouldn't recommend this to someone looking to go analog in to the unit.
thank you for that explination. What i got from this quote is that newbie patchers should go JB3 Newbies witha full rig should go dat or laptop? Is that correct?
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One more thing that is tangently related to this, if the JB3 is not a viable alternative then I say hold onto your DAT machines as it looks like it could be a while before we have a good, reliable and affordable HD solution.
You hit the nail on the head!
Also, Sony DATS are as portable as the nomads and record in 48k...I personally dont understand why DAT is such a dinosaur. They really aren't any more difficult to use than an optical cable device.
Phil
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Geoff to respond to your question from before, I've got no difference betweeh the original and my source. I've lietened to both a few times now and they sound EXACTLY the same.
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Geoff to respond to your question from before, I've got no difference betweeh the original and my source. I've lietened to both a few times now and they sound EXACTLY the same.
thats good so if i was run my planned rig M300>ua5>JB3 I would just go optical out of the UA-5 to the JB3? Anything else needed?(Besides batteries for the UA-5 and JB3 and Stand)
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thank you for that explination. What i got from this quote is that newbie patchers should go JB3 Newbies witha full rig should go dat or laptop? Is that correct?
what i'm saying is that i think an outboard A/D in front of the JB3 would be in your best interests. whether patching a full rig, or running your own. the A/D in the JB3 is not the best.
if you have the means to go the Laptop route, then this changes things altogether. by all means, go with a Laptop. get yourself a splitter, and you should have no trouble patching with a Laptop even. build your rig up from there. ;)
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thank you for that explination. What i got from this quote is that newbie patchers should go JB3 Newbies witha full rig should go dat or laptop? Is that correct?
what i'm saying is that i think an outboard A/D in front of the JB3 would be in your best interests. whether patching a full rig, or running your own. the A/D in the JB3 is not the best.
if you have the means to go the Laptop route, then this changes things altogether. by all means, go with a Laptop. get yourself a splitter, and you should have no trouble patching with a Laptop even. build your rig up from there. ;)
I can look into it, but i doubt i would be able to afford the laptop route. What would a starter type laptop cost around?
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talk to Nick Georges on this list or the Oade Board. he is the King of making inexpensive Laptop rigs. you can grab something off of Ebay and set it up just for Taping pretty reasonably. probably cheaper than buying a DAT. ;)