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Offline JasonSobel

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Mic cable wiring - drain wire questions
« on: October 13, 2008, 09:14:07 AM »
I recently decided to make myself a new set of cables.  I've made several pairs of cables and interconnects before, so I'm fairly familiar with the process.  However, this time around, I'm trying out a couple of new things.  First of all, I plan on making my own cut-down "shorty" right-angle XLR's.  There are already plenty of threads about that, and I've got the right tools needed, so no need for that discussion.

In all my past cables, I've used copper Canare Starquad cables (L-4E6S).  For the past few years, I've just been thrilled with my recordings, so I have no plans to make any significant changes (I'm not going to use silver-clad or anything like that).  For the existing cables that I'm using, I put tech-flex around the pair, essentially creating a 2-channel snake, with about 1-foot on either end to seperate the two XLR connectors.  Again, nothing too special there.

I'd love to cut down on the space that the cables take up in the bag.  The Canare L-4E6S cable has an outside diameter of 0.236 in.  Two of those cables next to each other is nearly half and inch (0.472 in).  So the two cables tech-flexed together take up a good deal of space.  For the new microphone cable that I'll be making, I decided to go with the Canare L-4E3-2P (more info here: http://www.canare.com/index.cfm?objectid=BEF999DD-3048-7098-AF117A19C7041546).  This is a two-channel snake, with an outside diameter of 0.350 in.  inside, are two independent channels, each with 4 copper conductors (in a star-quad arrangement) and each with it's own braided copper shielding and it's insulation. (the diameter per channel is 0.134 in).  With this snake, I'll save some space, and I won't have to deal with any tech-flex, as the two channels are already running in the same cable.

In addition to the two channels of shielded star-quad, the L-4E3-2P cable also has a drain wire running through the length.  This drain wire is outside of both channels' insulation.  I am thinking that I should just ignore this drain wire, and solder my connections as I have previously (i.e. standard XLR wiring, pin1 = shield, pin2 = hot, pin3 = cold).  My questions are as follows:

(1) Am I correct?  Should I just ignore the drain wire and solder each XLR connector on as I have before?

(2) If so, why is the drain wire there?  What purpose does is have?

(3) Am I wrong?  Should I connect the drain wire to one (or both) of the XLR connectors?  on both channels?

Thanks in advance for any help or guidance.

- Jason


edit to add pictures (from the Canare website: http://www.canare.com/index.cfm?objectid=BEAF2EE5-06A1-3944-EE278542C7469B17)...


This is the cross-section of each channel in the snake (i.e. standard star-quad)...


And this is what the cross-section of the whole thing looks like (note the drain wire or the "bundle drain")...
« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 11:02:09 AM by JasonSobel »

Offline Patrick

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Re: Mic cable wiring - drain wire questions
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2008, 11:04:48 AM »
You can either cut the drain wire off at both ends, or twist it together with the shield.  It doesn't really make a difference.   :)
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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: Mic cable wiring - drain wire questions
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2008, 11:36:03 AM »
thanks for the reply.

if it makes no difference, I'll just leave it un-connected.  Though, I'm still wondering what the purpose of the drain wire is?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 03:02:42 PM by JasonSobel »

Offline bugg100

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Re: Mic cable wiring - drain wire questions
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2008, 04:37:16 PM »
That sounds like a great cable, as a star quad lover....

Who did you order this from? Price?

Happy cable building and +t!
Joe

Offline JasonSobel

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Re: Mic cable wiring - drain wire questions
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2008, 04:58:37 PM »
Joe -

most places that I found only sold the Canare L-4E3-2P in rolls of 328 or 656 feet.  However, Trew Audio (http://www.trewaudio.com/store/home.php) sells it by the foot.

$1.70 per foot
http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=623&cat=0&page=1
I bought 15 feet from them.

I'll take pictures during the cable making process and the end product, and can post if anyone is interested.  I'm about to start soldering now.  (and I actually found enough regular neutrik right-angle XLR's lying around my house and from old cables that the cats chomped through, that I don't think I'm going to bother with the cut-off shorty right-angle.  the standard neutrik right-angle are a lot less custom work :) ).


and, before this thread veers too far off-topic, does anyone else have any thoughts/comments about the drain wire?

Offline TNJazz

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Re: Mic cable wiring - drain wire questions
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2008, 07:19:12 PM »
I use the drain wire for ground on both ends.

Most of the cable I use doesn't have braided shield or anything, but even when it does I usually cut it off and use the drain wire for ground instead.
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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: Mic cable wiring - drain wire questions
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2008, 09:00:12 PM »
I use the drain wire for ground on both ends.

Most of the cable I use doesn't have braided shield or anything, but even when it does I usually cut it off and use the drain wire for ground instead.

do you use the drain wire for ground on all channels?  in my case, because I've cut back the outer-most casing 6" to 8", if I used the drain wire for ground, it would have been exposed.

here are some pictures...

about 6 inches of the outer jacket pulled back


one of the star-quad channels


the finished product


a little bit of rubber mastic tape at the end of the outer jacket


« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 09:05:47 PM by JasonSobel »

Offline TNJazz

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Re: Mic cable wiring - drain wire questions
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2008, 09:20:17 PM »
I use the drain wire for ground on both ends.

Most of the cable I use doesn't have braided shield or anything, but even when it does I usually cut it off and use the drain wire for ground instead.

do you use the drain wire for ground on all channels?  in my case, because I've cut back the outer-most casing 6" to 8", if I used the drain wire for ground, it would have been exposed.


Yes, but I don't make stereo pairs out of single cables like what you're doing here.  In this case I'd just chop off the drain wire at both ends (or sometimes you can actually pull them out completely) and use the braid for ground.
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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: Mic cable wiring - drain wire questions
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2008, 09:23:14 PM »
out of curiosity, why do you prefer to use the drain wire for ground instead of the shield?  is there a technical reason why one way might be better than another way?

Offline TNJazz

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Re: Mic cable wiring - drain wire questions
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2008, 09:28:48 PM »
out of curiosity, why do you prefer to use the drain wire for ground instead of the shield?  is there a technical reason why one way might be better than another way?

No technical reason, but most of my wiring is 24 channel snakes and that's a LOT of soldering already.  So I like to use it instead because the drain wire is smaller and I don't have to take the extra time to twist the braided stuff and tin it.  If you twist it all together a lot of times it's too big for the solder cup in the XLR and it's just a gigantic pain in the ass to deal with.  So you have to separate it and cut half of it away, etc.

Easier just to tear it all off and tin the drain wire and use it instead.

BTW, this is specifically for cable that has drain wire in the jacket with the two conductors in addition to the braid on the outside.
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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: Mic cable wiring - drain wire questions
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2008, 09:34:58 PM »
gotcha.  thanks for the explanation.

Offline ghellquist

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Re: Mic cable wiring - drain wire questions
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2008, 04:48:02 AM »
I might add a build here.

I tend to use starquad cable for stereo use. I know, it is not quite the accepted practice but it has proven itself time after time. One pair of the quad for left and another for right. This makes for a very thin and flexible stereo cable.

There might be a few disadvantages but in real world experience they have not been any problem. Star quad supposedly is there to improve on immunity to radio frequency noise getting into the cable, but I have not had a problem here. And the individual wires are quite thin in a quad -- could break easily but not a problem for me.

I tend to run 10 or 30 meter stereo cables and terminate them in 5pin XLR-s. Short pigtails convert to stereo on each side (or not, when using a stereo mic).

Might add that I run 48V phantom and "quality" mics, recording almost only classical music (a 100 person symphony orchestra can be quite loud as well as mighty quiet).

Gunnar

Offline JasonSobel

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Re: Mic cable wiring - drain wire questions
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2008, 08:10:14 AM »
I tend to use starquad cable for stereo use. I know, it is not quite the accepted practice but it has proven itself time after time. One pair of the quad for left and another for right. This makes for a very thin and flexible stereo cable.

are you saying that you use a single star-quad wire for both left & right channels.  essentially two conductors per channel instead of 4?  and then you use the shield for ground on both channels?

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Mic cable wiring - drain wire questions
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2008, 09:45:32 AM »
A lot of emphasis is placed on which cable sounds better, etc but I wonder if these shield/drain configuration variations are more significant.  Especially if the cables are used near sources of noise, etc.

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Re: Mic cable wiring - drain wire questions
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2008, 04:05:32 PM »
I tend to use starquad cable for stereo use. I know, it is not quite the accepted practice but it has proven itself time after time. One pair of the quad for left and another for right. This makes for a very thin and flexible stereo cable.

are you saying that you use a single star-quad wire for both left & right channels.  essentially two conductors per channel instead of 4?  and then you use the shield for ground on both channels?

Exactly.
I am not going to make any large theoretical points about it, simply verify that it works perfectly well in my usage.

 

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