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Author Topic: So, where do I start?  (Read 20533 times)

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Offline 0120

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So, where do I start?
« on: February 14, 2004, 12:30:27 AM »
Well.  I've been looking around the internet for around three weeks and my quest has finally ended here.  Everyone appears to be very technologically sound.  I need your know how and experience in order to make an attempt at taping an arena show.  This should is going to be very loud.  It's center stage and I'm the left of center in row two.  The trouble is that, I need to learn everything there is about taping this show in 38 days.  I need to purchase equipment (MD, mic, battery module, etc.).  I need to learn techniques (mic positioning etc.).  I need to learn how to record from the mixing desk/soundboard AND the audience just in case.  So basically, if anyone can give me a complete overview and suggest some brands/types of MDs, Mics etc, I would be extremely grateful.  I heard that this place is extremely newbie-friendly.  That makes me less embarassed to be asking questions about the basics.  Thanks!  :headphones:
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 03:00:30 AM by 0120 »

Offline shroominhumpy

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2004, 12:39:52 AM »
Welcome. I too am a newbie on the board, but I have some experience, am up, so I am going to post. A lot of people here don't care for MD recording, but for a its good starter and cheaper than DAT. You will need an MD deck with a line-in (don't worry about a microphone in---you wont use it). I use a Sony MZ-N505, but a lot of people here like the Sharp decks. Depending on how serious you are getting (I don't know what type of show you are taping, is it okay here or will you be stealthing ect.) I would recommend a number of different things. I also don't know how much you want to spend. Right now to start out I would go with some sound professionals AT-853 mics. There are some on the board now, but I would e-mail Ashlee quick, as these mics generally go fast. These are small enough to stealth really easily and  sound good for the price. Here is a link to Ashlee's thread---http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=13908

Now you also asked about mic configs. There is only one place I can recommend for this. DPA's mic university. http://www.dpamicrophones.com/eng_pub/ Click on Microphone University and stereo techniques.

Soundboard stuff I am not too good with, but go through posts, I know this has been a popular topic as of late.

Also you want to check out the archive info. Great stuff to get you started.

Anything else feel free to PM(Private Message) me or e-mail me. Whatever and hopefully some other guys around here can give you a hand too. Welcome to the wonderful world of taping.

Jason
If mass communications blend together harmoniously, and often unnoticeably, art, politics, religion, and philosophy with commercials, they bring these realms of culture to their common denominator—the commodity form. The music of the soul is also the music of salesmanship.
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Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2004, 12:47:22 AM »
Wow, quick reply!  I've heard of the Sharp vs. Sony debate and I'm undecided.  I've also heard of DAT failures at the most critical moments.  Recording is not allowed at the venue so I plan to stealth.  I'm sure with a 5-person team we can accomplish some sort of decent set up.  I'll be meeting the band and with my convincing speech, I'm hoping they'll give me access to the soundboard.  The levels will be way too high so I'm thinking I'll need something to counter that.  I"d also like some info on disc switching.  Thanks!  :headphones:
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 12:48:15 AM by 0120 »

Offline super-phat-al

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2004, 12:49:36 AM »
first off.  Welcome to ts.com.  Happy to hear you're ready to enter the taping world.  This is a list of what you're going to need assuming you're not going to be stealth taping.  Stealth taping is without a stand and mics are usually attached to you.

Stand
T Bar
Shock mounts/mic clips
mic cables
mics
pre amp
recording device
power

how much are willing to spend?

you talked about MD, which is cheap, but i would like to recommend something called a JB3.  This is a hard drive that can be had for as low as $179 on ebay.  With MD you unfortunatly get compression of the sound.  However, that will not happen with the JB3.  The JB3 records to .wav and then can be transfered to your computer VIA USB.  However a cheap MD can be picked on ebay at any time.  But with the JB3 i think you would be incredibly happy.  

Next you would need something to feed the mics into before the JB3.  You use this  to set your levels and mix the sound down to feed into the recording device.  There are many many options with this.  You're budget will need to be known before going into this.  i recommend the following:  UA-5, samson mixpad 4, DMIC-20

I recommend the oktava MK-012 microphones.  these can be bought for $99 a pair at guitar center.  These are great mics for the price and i dont think they can be beat for the price.  

Fill in some more info about your budget and recommendations will be easier.  welcome to ts.com.

Offline super-phat-al

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2004, 12:50:28 AM »
damn people beat me to it.  im too slow

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2004, 12:55:25 AM »
Thanks for all the info!  Unfortunately, it's likely that I'll be stealth recording.  As for my budget, I'll set it at $500 Canadian, which works out to around $380.  I'm kind of thinking that isn't much in the world of taping.   :headphones:

Offline Simp-Dawg

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2004, 02:45:48 AM »
Thanks for all the info!  Unfortunately, it's likely that I'll be stealth recording.  As for my budget, I'll set it at $500 Canadian, which works out to around $380.  I'm kind of thinking that isn't much in the world of taping.   :headphones:
it can be done for as little as what you've mentioned, i think...
search ebay for md recorders, as shrromin mentioned you only need line in...yes many md recorder have mic in but the pre-amp is less than desirable.  or put up an iso in the yard sale here on the board.

purchase a set of mini-mics from sound professionals, core-sound, giant squid, or microphone madness...you can get pairs for cheap, but don't go for the cheapest....take advice from people here who have used certain brands, and spend a couple extra bucks on getting the battery box as well, which will bring the mics to a line-level, so you bypass the pre-amp stage in the md.

yes you're going to be compressing audio with the atrac compression native to minidisc.  yes many people shun it.  i personally record at 24-bit which is better resolution that DAT.  but i say minidisc is fine....many people cannot hear the difference especially when they have subpar stereo playback systems, and it won't matter.   at least you have a listenable, enjoyable, copy of the show.  hell i have quite a few incredible shows i recorded on md.  it's perfectly viable.  just not preferred if there are other sources like DAT.

you may also look into the jb3...it's the size of a discman and can record uncompressed WAV files.  however i would recommend having an analog-to-digital (A/D) convertor to input audio into this.  you're talking about spending another few hundred here...depending on your needs.

fwiw (for what it's worth) i like the way you asked your questions.  most newbies here it seems just pop in and say hey i need help and that's it...you explained exactly what you wanted to do, how you wanted to do it, and jumped right in to the correct forum and asked away.  +T  
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Offline zhianosatch

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2004, 02:49:07 AM »
Which show are you taping?

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2004, 02:59:00 AM »
Simp-dawg, thank you very much for all your suggestions.  I'll keep them in mind.  Also zhianosatch , I plan on recording Metallica and many bands after.   :headphones:

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2004, 03:05:21 AM »
So, I'm liking the sound of these things so far:

Nomad JB3 - Price? as I don't feel like ripping myself off.  It's better to be educated.
Battery Box - Need Suggestions
Mics - Need Suggestions
A/D - Need Suggestions
Soundboard cables - RCA?
Something to take the level down on the soundboard.

I'm feeling confident that I can work this out.

Offline caymanreview

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2004, 04:09:03 AM »
you plan on getting metallica to offer you sbd access??? not gonna happen i would say!

jb3 price: 179 refurbbished straight from creative themselves on ebay

battery box: soundprofessionalls box is decent, especially paired with thier mics

a/d: mayeb something like an ad20 would be good for your stealthy situation

soundboard cables: can be anything from 1/4" to xlr to rca, just have to have a bag full of adapters and be ready for anything

something to take the level down fromt he sbd... well ive only patched a sbd 1 time before i had mics, and the sound guy was also recording off the board with a DAT, so the mix was good... maybe a sharp md recorder with easily changing level controls is what you need, jb3 also has this feature.

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2004, 04:10:58 AM »
you plan on getting metallica to offer you sbd access??? not gonna happen i would say!

I can dream.  You never know.  I'll definitely be prepared for both situations.  What's the storaage capacity of a JB3?  Thanks for the help.   :headphones:
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 04:12:17 AM by 0120 »

Offline caymanreview

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2004, 04:13:11 AM »
you cna get 20, 40 and 60 gig versions i believe

most here run the 20 gig version, they are all exactly the same except the hd size

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2004, 04:15:15 AM »
I would think 20 GB would be sufficient for just about any situation :headphones:.

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2004, 04:20:05 AM »
yeah, i ran the jb3 20 gig model for quite awhile behind a oade modeed edirol UA5, which has optical outputs which are ideal for the jb3

you might look into the ad20 as a decent a/d for stealth, and it has your optical out that alot of a/d's dont have these days

 

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