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Author Topic: So, where do I start?  (Read 20530 times)

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Offline 0120

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So, where do I start?
« on: February 14, 2004, 12:30:27 AM »
Well.  I've been looking around the internet for around three weeks and my quest has finally ended here.  Everyone appears to be very technologically sound.  I need your know how and experience in order to make an attempt at taping an arena show.  This should is going to be very loud.  It's center stage and I'm the left of center in row two.  The trouble is that, I need to learn everything there is about taping this show in 38 days.  I need to purchase equipment (MD, mic, battery module, etc.).  I need to learn techniques (mic positioning etc.).  I need to learn how to record from the mixing desk/soundboard AND the audience just in case.  So basically, if anyone can give me a complete overview and suggest some brands/types of MDs, Mics etc, I would be extremely grateful.  I heard that this place is extremely newbie-friendly.  That makes me less embarassed to be asking questions about the basics.  Thanks!  :headphones:
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 03:00:30 AM by 0120 »

Offline shroominhumpy

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2004, 12:39:52 AM »
Welcome. I too am a newbie on the board, but I have some experience, am up, so I am going to post. A lot of people here don't care for MD recording, but for a its good starter and cheaper than DAT. You will need an MD deck with a line-in (don't worry about a microphone in---you wont use it). I use a Sony MZ-N505, but a lot of people here like the Sharp decks. Depending on how serious you are getting (I don't know what type of show you are taping, is it okay here or will you be stealthing ect.) I would recommend a number of different things. I also don't know how much you want to spend. Right now to start out I would go with some sound professionals AT-853 mics. There are some on the board now, but I would e-mail Ashlee quick, as these mics generally go fast. These are small enough to stealth really easily and  sound good for the price. Here is a link to Ashlee's thread---http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=13908

Now you also asked about mic configs. There is only one place I can recommend for this. DPA's mic university. http://www.dpamicrophones.com/eng_pub/ Click on Microphone University and stereo techniques.

Soundboard stuff I am not too good with, but go through posts, I know this has been a popular topic as of late.

Also you want to check out the archive info. Great stuff to get you started.

Anything else feel free to PM(Private Message) me or e-mail me. Whatever and hopefully some other guys around here can give you a hand too. Welcome to the wonderful world of taping.

Jason
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Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2004, 12:47:22 AM »
Wow, quick reply!  I've heard of the Sharp vs. Sony debate and I'm undecided.  I've also heard of DAT failures at the most critical moments.  Recording is not allowed at the venue so I plan to stealth.  I'm sure with a 5-person team we can accomplish some sort of decent set up.  I'll be meeting the band and with my convincing speech, I'm hoping they'll give me access to the soundboard.  The levels will be way too high so I'm thinking I'll need something to counter that.  I"d also like some info on disc switching.  Thanks!  :headphones:
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 12:48:15 AM by 0120 »

Offline super-phat-al

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2004, 12:49:36 AM »
first off.  Welcome to ts.com.  Happy to hear you're ready to enter the taping world.  This is a list of what you're going to need assuming you're not going to be stealth taping.  Stealth taping is without a stand and mics are usually attached to you.

Stand
T Bar
Shock mounts/mic clips
mic cables
mics
pre amp
recording device
power

how much are willing to spend?

you talked about MD, which is cheap, but i would like to recommend something called a JB3.  This is a hard drive that can be had for as low as $179 on ebay.  With MD you unfortunatly get compression of the sound.  However, that will not happen with the JB3.  The JB3 records to .wav and then can be transfered to your computer VIA USB.  However a cheap MD can be picked on ebay at any time.  But with the JB3 i think you would be incredibly happy.  

Next you would need something to feed the mics into before the JB3.  You use this  to set your levels and mix the sound down to feed into the recording device.  There are many many options with this.  You're budget will need to be known before going into this.  i recommend the following:  UA-5, samson mixpad 4, DMIC-20

I recommend the oktava MK-012 microphones.  these can be bought for $99 a pair at guitar center.  These are great mics for the price and i dont think they can be beat for the price.  

Fill in some more info about your budget and recommendations will be easier.  welcome to ts.com.

Offline super-phat-al

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2004, 12:50:28 AM »
damn people beat me to it.  im too slow

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2004, 12:55:25 AM »
Thanks for all the info!  Unfortunately, it's likely that I'll be stealth recording.  As for my budget, I'll set it at $500 Canadian, which works out to around $380.  I'm kind of thinking that isn't much in the world of taping.   :headphones:

Offline Simp-Dawg

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2004, 02:45:48 AM »
Thanks for all the info!  Unfortunately, it's likely that I'll be stealth recording.  As for my budget, I'll set it at $500 Canadian, which works out to around $380.  I'm kind of thinking that isn't much in the world of taping.   :headphones:
it can be done for as little as what you've mentioned, i think...
search ebay for md recorders, as shrromin mentioned you only need line in...yes many md recorder have mic in but the pre-amp is less than desirable.  or put up an iso in the yard sale here on the board.

purchase a set of mini-mics from sound professionals, core-sound, giant squid, or microphone madness...you can get pairs for cheap, but don't go for the cheapest....take advice from people here who have used certain brands, and spend a couple extra bucks on getting the battery box as well, which will bring the mics to a line-level, so you bypass the pre-amp stage in the md.

yes you're going to be compressing audio with the atrac compression native to minidisc.  yes many people shun it.  i personally record at 24-bit which is better resolution that DAT.  but i say minidisc is fine....many people cannot hear the difference especially when they have subpar stereo playback systems, and it won't matter.   at least you have a listenable, enjoyable, copy of the show.  hell i have quite a few incredible shows i recorded on md.  it's perfectly viable.  just not preferred if there are other sources like DAT.

you may also look into the jb3...it's the size of a discman and can record uncompressed WAV files.  however i would recommend having an analog-to-digital (A/D) convertor to input audio into this.  you're talking about spending another few hundred here...depending on your needs.

fwiw (for what it's worth) i like the way you asked your questions.  most newbies here it seems just pop in and say hey i need help and that's it...you explained exactly what you wanted to do, how you wanted to do it, and jumped right in to the correct forum and asked away.  +T  
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Offline zhianosatch

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2004, 02:49:07 AM »
Which show are you taping?

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2004, 02:59:00 AM »
Simp-dawg, thank you very much for all your suggestions.  I'll keep them in mind.  Also zhianosatch , I plan on recording Metallica and many bands after.   :headphones:

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2004, 03:05:21 AM »
So, I'm liking the sound of these things so far:

Nomad JB3 - Price? as I don't feel like ripping myself off.  It's better to be educated.
Battery Box - Need Suggestions
Mics - Need Suggestions
A/D - Need Suggestions
Soundboard cables - RCA?
Something to take the level down on the soundboard.

I'm feeling confident that I can work this out.

Offline caymanreview

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2004, 04:09:03 AM »
you plan on getting metallica to offer you sbd access??? not gonna happen i would say!

jb3 price: 179 refurbbished straight from creative themselves on ebay

battery box: soundprofessionalls box is decent, especially paired with thier mics

a/d: mayeb something like an ad20 would be good for your stealthy situation

soundboard cables: can be anything from 1/4" to xlr to rca, just have to have a bag full of adapters and be ready for anything

something to take the level down fromt he sbd... well ive only patched a sbd 1 time before i had mics, and the sound guy was also recording off the board with a DAT, so the mix was good... maybe a sharp md recorder with easily changing level controls is what you need, jb3 also has this feature.

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2004, 04:10:58 AM »
you plan on getting metallica to offer you sbd access??? not gonna happen i would say!

I can dream.  You never know.  I'll definitely be prepared for both situations.  What's the storaage capacity of a JB3?  Thanks for the help.   :headphones:
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 04:12:17 AM by 0120 »

Offline caymanreview

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2004, 04:13:11 AM »
you cna get 20, 40 and 60 gig versions i believe

most here run the 20 gig version, they are all exactly the same except the hd size

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2004, 04:15:15 AM »
I would think 20 GB would be sufficient for just about any situation :headphones:.

Offline caymanreview

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2004, 04:20:05 AM »
yeah, i ran the jb3 20 gig model for quite awhile behind a oade modeed edirol UA5, which has optical outputs which are ideal for the jb3

you might look into the ad20 as a decent a/d for stealth, and it has your optical out that alot of a/d's dont have these days

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2004, 04:23:23 AM »
Very interesting.  So what price am I looking at for all this stuff?  Here's another question.  What's this UA5 stuff everyone is talking about?   :help:  :headphones:

Offline caymanreview

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2004, 04:31:13 AM »
well, there are alot of us tapers who tape in open taping situations running the Edirol UA5. this was a product originally made for laptop taping. then the Oade Bros (oade.com) came out with a mod to make it a standalone device(so it would work without a laptop and still work with it)

they also came out with 2 preamp mods for the ua5, the warm mod and the presence mod. these modded devices from oade are much better than the stock ones

the mod to allow standalone use (we here refer to it as the "digi-mod") is easily available, and directions are in the archive section. it is very simple to do yourself to have a decent piece of gear for less than 300 bucks, as you would ahve the mic pre and a/d in one box

oade sells the digi mod onyl boxes or you can get the preamp mod and the digi mod at once, but they will not mod any ua5s that werent bought fromt hem to start with

hope that sheds some light on the ua5 for you! i once ran a warm mod ua5 and loved it, but i just had to upgrade, i now run an Apogee Mini-Me

Offline caymanreview

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2004, 04:32:04 AM »
and stealthing, like you will be doing, wont work with the ua5 i would say. it is a little too big
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 04:32:28 AM by caymanreview »

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2004, 04:34:45 AM »
So, I guess I have the JB3, and the ad20 suggested so far.  What else would I need?  (Thanks for all the help along the way.)  :headphones:

Offline caymanreview

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2004, 04:35:59 AM »
prices:
jb3 refurbished on ebay:179$
sound pros mics/battery boxs prices will vary beetween new and used

i would reccomend, with your budget that you try to buy everything used, especially the mics/battery box

used stealth mics for sale:
http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/Forum/dcboard.phpaz=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=615&mesg_id=615&page=

i have never heard.used these mics and do not know the seller

Offline caymanreview

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2004, 04:41:04 AM »
well those arent your only options, but they are definantly a good start.

you would need all you cables, depending on mic/battery box situation to go into the ad20, and a toslink > mini optical cable to go into the jb3

you could always get a set of mini mics/battery box, and a jb3 and then later down the raod (when your budget allows add an ad20 or something similar

the second mics mentioned on that page for sale are highly regarded mini mics, i ran some similar mics to those (audio technica 933s)

you will be wanting omni mics by the way, either mics with switcheable caps or fixed caps, you will definantly want some omni caps for your stealthing

my pleasure to help! we were all newbies once before! and this site helped me out more than anywhere else could have, so you gotta give it back!

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2004, 04:43:42 AM »
The JB3 seems very convenient as opposed to MD decks, but now I'm having thoughts about the price of all this stuff.  I'm looking for decent JB3s on ebay right now.   :headphones:

EDIT - I see a few great priced units direct from Creative Labs.  I'm still undecided though.  Heh
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 04:49:38 AM by 0120 »

Offline caymanreview

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2004, 04:51:38 AM »
the convinience of a jb3 is key, 3 hour record time with seamless next track, mean that you can record for as many hours as the batterys would last (way more than most any shows except festivals) and you are talkign switching discs in a md deck every 74 minutes.... which is causing splits in your recordings and lost time in the recording!

you can transfer you recordings to your pc quick and easy with usb or firewire with the jb3

with a md deck, you are going to ahve to have some kind of a soundcard, hopefully something better than your stock soundcard, and using a portable md recorder you would only be able to do analog out of your md > analog into your pc, unless you spend a couple extra hundred bucks on a home md unit with digital output and a digital soundcard with optical input
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 04:52:39 AM by caymanreview »

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2004, 04:53:49 AM »
So, I'm guessing that the JB3 would be ultimately better?  Sure seems like it to me.  Heh.   :headphones:
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 04:54:23 AM by 0120 »

Offline caymanreview

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2004, 04:57:35 AM »
well ive ran both, and would say without a dought i like the jb3 better

but for size and stealth issues the md deck is smaller and tougher. the jb3 is exactly the same size/dimensions as a portable cd player, but still very stealthable i think

you just have to consider what you are prepared to stick down your pants to get through security, i know some kids here who put alot of stuff down there and get away with it night after night

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2004, 04:59:24 AM »
I've read up on techniques involving getting the units into the show and recording.  Basically all I need to do is get equipment and learn how to use it.   :headphones:

Offline caymanreview

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2004, 05:09:31 AM »
you are sure to get some other positive feedback tomorrow when the "day crew" is online. im just a night person here myself. im sure you will get alot of feedback regarding the mics/battery box/a-d's from the people who actually stealth. i myself tape from a designated taping section in a open taping environment, so im not a great help for stealth info!

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2004, 05:13:08 AM »
I'd say you did a great job.  T+ if I could.  Thanks for everything.  I need some sleep as it's 3:15 am and I got up at 7:00 am yesterday.  Have a great night.   :headphones:

Offline zhianosatch

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2004, 10:15:43 AM »
Exactly how much are you willing to spend? And no chance you're getting a soundboard patch at Metallica.

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2004, 07:48:38 PM »
$380 American looks to be my max. :headphones:

Offline BCostigan

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2004, 08:33:57 PM »
As for getting a board patch at Metallica.....unless you are a good friend of the bands I don't think I'd even ask.  Asking will let them know you want to tape and may give them a clue to watch you.


If $380 US is your budget for a stealth rig I think about the best option is to go for:

Refurbished JB3 from creative off ebay: $180

Sound Professionsal's SP-CMC-1 (AT 829s) = $99/pair and $49 for the battery module.


Buy the time you factor in shipping you're close to $380.   I also think you'd be pretty pleased with the results.

The only thing I'm not sure of (and there are others that can answer better than I...zhianosatch) is whether to get the cardioids or omnis?
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Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2004, 08:39:26 PM »
I've been told omnis.  I'd like to hear more about the mics though.  Thanks!   :headphones:

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2004, 08:40:22 PM »
As for getting a board patch at Metallica.....unless you are a good friend of the bands I don't think I'd even ask.  Asking will let them know you want to tape and may give them a clue to watch you.

They allow taping.  It's just the venue's security that I have to get past.   :headphones:

Offline caymanreview

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2004, 08:53:28 PM »
metallica does NOT allow taping!

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2004, 08:59:01 PM »
No, man they do.  Look at their site.  Hang on and I'll post some quotes.   :headphones:
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 09:00:32 PM by 0120 »

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2004, 09:03:09 PM »
Quote
Posted on metallica.com
Yes, you can record concerts for your own personal use, but we ask that you please not trade, donate, or barter the recordings in exchange for other goods or money. As a fan, you know that Metallica is very particular about the quality of their recordings and anything with their name on it. This standard of quality is lost when the band's name is used and recordings are distributed without their permission. However, before you record any concert, check with the venue. Recording may be prohibited at certain venues and it is up to you to determine this.

Quote
Lars Ulrich, May 2000 Yahoo! chat[/
We have always and will always continue to condone allowing people to record our concerts and to freely trade live concerts.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 09:04:00 PM by 0120 »

Offline Chanher

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2004, 09:03:12 PM »
I think I can help you out, I have been running my starter rig for a couple years and I did a lot of research.

Recorder

The jb3 is a good idea because of the ease of transferring to computer to be burned to CD, which is what I'm assuming you want to do.  Even with the slight compression and cheaper price of MD, you would still be able to make a quality tape just as good as the jb3. Where MD becomes inferior is that you would have to buy a MD deck and a digital soundcard for the digital transfer as caymanreview previously pointed out.  Find a way to get a refurbished jb3 in your rig and you won't regret it.


Mics

because you're stealthing in a Metallica concert, you're going to have to avoid omni-directional mics because they would pick up too much crowd noise and some cardioids or hypercardioids will not eliminate the problem but help it. These are the very mics I bought and for your budget I would highly recommend them:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=120&item=SP-CMC-2&type=store

Those are the Sound Professionals at831 (sp-cmc-2) cardioid mics. Very similiar to the before mentioned at853's in that the at853's have interchangeable caps (can switch from omni to cardioid or hypercardiod) but the cost is $50 more.  Either set will work.

Mic power

You will need a battery box for those mics for sure, I have one as does a majority of tapers who run such a setup. You can find one at the same site:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=310&item=SP-SPSB-1&type=store

You essentially could get the bare batt box with no additional features (that cost more) but if there's one feature that would benefit you most it's the bass roll-off option ($20).  If you can afford it definitely get the preamp option ($140 + level control[$20/30]) but it's not absolutely necessary.

This can be your basic rig.  I'm also assuming the jb3 has a line input.  I haven't used one, I went the MD rig as the jb3 was not available at the time.  can someone please confirm this?  If you have any questions just pm or email me.
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Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2004, 09:06:10 PM »
Yep, the JB3 has line in.  What you suggested is under $380 which is great.  Now I just have to factor in shipping and stuff.  Looks like I'm that much closer to finishing my rig.   :headphones:
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 09:08:04 PM by 0120 »

Offline BCostigan

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2004, 09:22:17 PM »
Quote
Posted on metallica.com
Yes, you can record concerts for your own personal use, but we ask that you please not trade, donate, or barter the recordings in exchange for other goods or money. As a fan, you know that Metallica is very particular about the quality of their recordings and anything with their name on it. This standard of quality is lost when the band's name is used and recordings are distributed without their permission. However, before you record any concert, check with the venue. Recording may be prohibited at certain venues and it is up to you to determine this.

Quote
Lars Ulrich, May 2000 Yahoo! chat[/
We have always and will always continue to condone allowing people to record our concerts and to freely trade live concerts.

If that's the case why do you have to stealth?  I'm sure they play many of the same venues as DMB, Phish etc who allow taping...not sure why a venue would care.

I'm confused why you can tape but you have to stealth?  ???

::EDIT::

And if they are so concearned with sound quality wouldn't they want everone FOB and enforce  quality control on the rigs being used so that they are sure only "good" rigs are taping??  :P
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 09:24:51 PM by BCostigan »
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Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2004, 10:09:43 PM »
If that's the case why do you have to stealth?  I'm sure they play many of the same venues as DMB, Phish etc who allow taping...not sure why a venue would care.

I'm confused why you can tape but you have to stealth?  ???

::EDIT::

And if they are so concearned with sound quality wouldn't they want everone FOB and enforce  quality control on the rigs being used so that they are sure only "good" rigs are taping??  :P

It's a great double standard.

Offline sexymexi

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2004, 10:17:05 PM »
go for it, spend the cash if you can, if you don't you are gonna wanna upgrade, we all do..  man i just got my rig all good to go, and i want more. its a sickness..  ur gonna get stuck, but good luck, and welcome.  go buy the JB3, and get some mics and a box from sound pro's. peace.
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Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2004, 10:58:04 PM »
I'm definitely going to go for the JB3, but there are options for the battery box.  I'm not sure which one I should get.  Same with mics.  I'm still a little confused about the cardioid mics.  What SPL am I looking at for a concert as loud as Metallica?  And also does having focused mics mean if I clip  them to a hat or something, that I'll have to look at the speaker stacks the whole time?  I also forgot to add that Metallica has had tapers' tickets all the way up until the 1998/1999 tour for some reason. :headphones:
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 11:01:02 PM by 0120 »

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2004, 11:27:04 PM »
I'm definitely going to go for the JB3, but there are options for the battery box.  I'm not sure which one I should get.  Same with mics.  I'm still a little confused about the cardioid mics.  What SPL am I looking at for a concert as loud as Metallica?  And also does having focused mics mean if I clip  them to a hat or something, that I'll have to look at the speaker stacks the whole time?  I also forgot to add that Metallica has had tapers' tickets all the way up until the 1998/1999 tour for some reason. :headphones:

I thought Metalica changed their stance on taping. It's my understanding they don't allow it anymore. I'd be prepared to stealth.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
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Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2004, 12:32:16 AM »
No, they never did.  What exactly did you hear about it?  :headphones:

Offline John R

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2004, 01:44:26 AM »
I've read up on techniques involving getting the units into the show and recording.  Basically all I need to do is get equipment and learn how to use it.   :headphones:

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2004, 02:19:37 AM »
All I do is stealthing, so if its OK I'll add my 2p.

I've been using the following for nearly a year, mostly in small clubs:

Sound Professionals CMC2: $119
Sound Professionals Battery box w/bass roll off: $79
Nomad JB3: $179 off ebay

On your budget, don't bother with an external A>D. I've made some terrific sounding recordings using the above setup.

You can always add it later, but I've not felt this necessary yet.

The bass roll off option on the battery box will reduce the heavy bass you get at some concerts and is recommended.

Not tried recording larger venues, but be warned the one time I tried them outside, I got some wind buffeting on the recording.
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Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2004, 02:30:03 AM »
I think it should be ok in an enclosed arena.  What exactly does an external A/D accomplish?  :headphones:

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2004, 02:43:49 AM »
I think it should be ok in an enclosed arena.  What exactly does an external A/D accomplish?  :headphones:

From:

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=14;action=display;threadid=4237

Quote
[4]  analog-to-digital converter (ADC)
The ADC translates into the digital domain (0s and 1s) the analog signal coming from our powered microphones and through our gain stage.  Once the signal has been translated from analog to digital, then all we have to do is store those 0s and 1s somewhere.

Whether you need an external A>D with the Nomad is a matter of opinion - as I said I've made some great recordings using the Nomads internal A>D.

Thing is I've not heard of anyone prepared to possibly ruin a recording by taping part of it with, and without an external A>D - anyone done this comparison with a Nomad?
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Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2004, 02:54:12 AM »
Just a question.  Why wouldn't the internal one be as good as the external one?   :headphones:

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2004, 03:00:39 AM »
Well...  This is looking like my rig so far:

SP-CMC-2 >>> SP-SPSB-2B >>> JB3


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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2004, 04:25:03 AM »
Just a question.  Why wouldn't the internal one be as good as the external one?   :headphones:

Just found a good discussion on A>Ds here:

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=1893
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Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2004, 04:44:44 AM »
Ok, so I just read up on it, but the main question is, will it make the recording sound better considering it's all beginner's stuff?  (Mics, batt box, etc?)   :headphones:
« Last Edit: February 15, 2004, 04:45:05 AM by 0120 »

Offline zhianosatch

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2004, 04:51:10 AM »
Yes. Get an AD-20 for that setup if you can swing the cash.

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2004, 05:04:00 AM »
Alright.  I'm glad I'm getting straight up answers.  As for the batt box.  Which one should I get?  They have a few different options.   :headphones:

Thanks for the second day of help.  This place is great, but I need to get some sleep.  I'll definitely be back tomorrow.

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2004, 10:46:39 AM »
No, they never did.  What exactly did you hear about it?  :headphones:

I'm not sure where I heard this.  ??? Maybe it was in association with their fight against Napster... ???
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
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Offline Karl

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2004, 11:40:02 AM »
Batt boxes--get either SP's -6 or -1.  I think the other one on their site (-3) doesn't use a 9V batt, and that's a pain.  And I would definitely get the bass roll-off option.  I ended up building my own batt box, and have been pleased with it, but I am now regretting that I didn't get a bass roll off option (I have mics purchased from SP, the AT-853).

Good luck!
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Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2004, 06:57:16 PM »
No, they never did.  What exactly did you hear about it?  :headphones:

I'm not sure where I heard this.  ??? Maybe it was in association with their fight against Napster... ???

Oh, it's just one of those myths that arised during that time period.  I'm looking for good refurbed JB3s on ebay.  :headphones:

Offline Sean Gallemore

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #57 on: February 15, 2004, 07:08:52 PM »
mp-2

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2004, 07:15:09 PM »
mp-2

Err, I'm not sure I follow.

Also, has anyone ran this setup in high dB situations like this?  Now that I have my rig pretty much finalized, I'm going to have some specific questions.   :headphones:
« Last Edit: February 15, 2004, 07:16:39 PM by 0120 »

Offline Sean Gallemore

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #59 on: February 15, 2004, 07:23:46 PM »
if you were looking to get an external preamp, I was recommending the sounddevices mp-2.

as for the battery box, I would recommend the Sp-SpSB-1 as I am not familiar with the -2b

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #60 on: February 15, 2004, 07:28:17 PM »
if you were looking to get an external preamp, I was recommending the sounddevices mp-2.

as for the battery box, I would recommend the Sp-SpSB-1 as I am not familiar with the -2b

Ah, I get it now.  I'll check it out.   :headphones:
« Last Edit: February 15, 2004, 07:40:33 PM by 0120 »

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #61 on: February 16, 2004, 12:48:02 AM »
Hey.  I just noticed that Sound Professionals have a battery module with a preamp and bass roll off.  The SP-SPSB-2L.  Wouldn't this be better than buying a seperate pre-amp?  I still don't know which way to head in terms of the battery module or preamp (or cables!).  I have these details pretty much solidified though:

Microphones: SP-CMC-2: US $109
Battery Module: ?
Preamp: ?
Recorder: Refurbished JB3: US $180

Cables: ?

:headphones:
« Last Edit: February 16, 2004, 01:06:09 AM by 0120 »

Offline zhianosatch

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #62 on: February 16, 2004, 01:08:37 AM »
I stick with my AD-20 recommendation. Easy stealthage, perfect fit with the JB3 and a small budget.

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #63 on: February 16, 2004, 01:15:08 AM »
So, go for the bass roll off with the battery module and a seperate preamp?

PS - When I get 50 posts, I'll T+ everyone for all their help.  I really appreciate it.  

PPS - Where can I see an AD20?

 :headphones:
« Last Edit: February 16, 2004, 03:43:56 AM by 0120 »

Offline Chanher

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #64 on: February 16, 2004, 11:52:23 AM »
if you can afford it, yes a batt box w/roll off and a SEPERATE preamp would work best.  while the batt box w/roll off AND preamp is a noticeable improvement over the batt box w/roll off, I have heard it will not make or break your tape if you catch my drift.
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Offline yemncsu

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #65 on: February 16, 2004, 12:10:50 PM »
You can see an AD-20 at micsupply.com.  It will be the first or second one on the preamps page.
Josh
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Offline Sean Gallemore

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #66 on: February 16, 2004, 04:35:25 PM »
they sell the AD-20 at the same place the mics are...

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #67 on: February 16, 2004, 04:43:26 PM »
why would he need an ad20? he's getting a SBD patch, straight from Lars...
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Sean Gallemore

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #68 on: February 16, 2004, 04:54:17 PM »
why would he need an ad20? he's getting a SBD patch, straight from Lars...

true, but maybe he might want to taper "lesser" bands that aren't as generous ;)

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #69 on: February 16, 2004, 06:04:23 PM »
I'm such an ass...
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #70 on: February 16, 2004, 07:24:07 PM »
why would he need an ad20? he's getting a SBD patch, straight from Lars...

Lars and I are pals.  We go way back. ;)  :headphones:
« Last Edit: February 16, 2004, 07:27:32 PM by 0120 »

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #71 on: February 16, 2004, 07:36:19 PM »
On a serious note, the AD20 seems to be a little out of my price range right now.  That would send me way over-budget.  The MP-2 also appears to be discontinued.  I'm pretty locked on getting a JB3, but what's this I hear about recording with Archos Jukebox Recorder?  Is it lesser quality?  It certainly seems more stealthable.   :headphones:
« Last Edit: February 16, 2004, 07:56:23 PM by 0120 »

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Offline joemango

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #73 on: February 17, 2004, 03:18:13 PM »
Doesn't Metallica sell Taper tickets?

I was under the impression that they did, but would not allow trading.

Maybe I'm an ass.

Offline Sean Gallemore

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #74 on: February 17, 2004, 06:17:23 PM »
9 years ago...

Offline 0120

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #75 on: February 18, 2004, 05:51:49 PM »
They actually had tapers tickets all the way up until 2003.   :headphones:

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Re:So, where do I start?
« Reply #76 on: February 18, 2004, 08:44:41 PM »
but the section ended in '96... ;)

 

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