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Author Topic: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control  (Read 29944 times)

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Offline Esla

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #120 on: March 02, 2015, 04:55:50 PM »

Can you kill wifi from the app once your levels and everything is set to preserve power?

The M10 seems to get allot of love but not for the internal mics.  I'm looking for the best budget all in one, not a modular or upgradable system.  I'm fairly set on either H2n or DR-22WL.

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #121 on: March 02, 2015, 06:18:44 PM »
No, you can't control the wifi link from the app.  It's possible that if you are not actually logged onto the recorder from the phone that the recorder will use less battery but I haven't tested that.

Personally I prefer the actual mics of the H2N to those of the DR-22WL.  As I've previously mentioned, the DR-22WL mid-high frequencies seem to need to be boosted in post production for the recording to sound "right".  On the other hand, its low frequency response goes down very low - but that means that wind noise is a major problem out of doors.  But... if you are operating the device from a phone, you can fit a big dead kitten over the mics and over part of the display, because not being able to see the display doesn't matter.

That's not to say that the H2N doesn't need protection from wind too, it's just a bit less of a problem.

The chief point of the Tascam is the wifi control.  If it didn't have that, I don't think it has any particular killer feature to recommend it over the competition.  It does have some plus points - bigger display enabling more at-a-glance checking of many menu settings at once, precise readout and control of level, and the mics produce a correct stereo image compared to the M10.

The H2N's plus points are its multi-capsule mic system, clear display for those needing glasses, and personally I like the vertical format, so you can easily see the display if it's in front of you, rather than having to look down from above to see it.  That has some advantage when camera mounted too. 

I think you'll have to make a judgement on whether the wifi control will enable you to do stuff with the Tascam that you couldn't possible do with the Zoom, in the situation that you'll be in.

Hope that helps...  I always feel a bit nervous making recommendations for other people's expenditure!

(http://zoomforum.us/viewtopic.php?t=17093 has an ambient recording made with the H2N which may be of interest).

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #122 on: March 02, 2015, 06:41:18 PM »
You know, I think I'm going to have to pull my finger out and do a shootout between the internal mics of the M10, DR-22WL, and the H2N, with a reference recording made using a Sennheiser MKH series pair.  If I can't do it today it probably won't be for a couple of days later, but I'll do my best...

Offline Esla

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #123 on: March 02, 2015, 06:43:00 PM »
Thank you both for the input.  I did notice on a youtube demo that the DR-22WL did have a darker sound to it compared to the H1, I think what I was hearing was the high mid cut you talked in detail about earlier.  I think I have a good idea on the tone differences now except for which has the lowest noise floor?

Thanks for the H2n sample, I always find the sound of foot steps on gravel southing...perhaps I am weird.  There is a constant white noise in the recording, is that wind?  Was a dead cat used? 

The recording from the youtube was done with the onboard iPhone mic poorly placed, either will be a step up I am sure.

Last question, which feels more robust?

Offline Esla

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #124 on: March 02, 2015, 06:44:12 PM »
You know, I think I'm going to have to pull my finger out and do a shootout between the internal mics of the M10, DR-22WL, and the H2N, with a reference recording made using a Sennheiser MKH series pair.  If I can't do it today it probably won't be for a couple of days later, but I'll do my best...

I would be very interested in that!

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #125 on: March 02, 2015, 09:14:23 PM »
It's very hard to be sure about the "constant white noise" on the recording.  It's not something that troubles me.  As the linked post says, I used a Rode "dead kitten" to suppress wind noise though the wind was quite light.  But there were plenty of trees and bushes around, and if you think of those thousands of leaves rustling even a little, that makes a certain amount of whitish noise for a start.  I think our ears naturally exclude some general environmental noise when we listen naturally, and it only becomes obvious when listening to a recording. 

The other thing to consider is playback level.  For me, a recording like that should be played back at a level such that (for example) the footsteps on the gravel sound no louder than footsteps on gravel should sound (my feet, not Shrek's!).  The whole recording should be heard at that correct level, so your aural experience is authentic.  Of course you can crank up the quiet bits and hear system noise, but then the playback ceases to be authentic.

Without having carefully tested, I don't think there's a significant difference in the noise from the built in mics of the Tascam and Zoom recorders, but part of the shootout I will conduct later will be to provide some kind of noise floor comparison via a ticking clock test.  That will be part 2 - part 1 will simply be a recording of my studio's monitors replaying one minute of a Jacques Loussier track, with careful attention to the placement of the devices in the same spot and with level setting being the same.  It won't sound particularly good (recording loudspeakers usually doesn't, but of course recording a rock band's PA speakers isn't really much different) but having the very high quality Sennheiser mics as part of the test will provide a basis for comparison.  The test should also reveal differences in stereo imaging, which for me is important as well as frequency response.

As for robustness - well, you can get a hardish case shell for the Zoom, but I don't think one is available for the Tascam.  The Zoom perhaps has more vulnerable switches, but I don't think there's a significant difference between the robustness of the two.  If you can, treat any such device as gently as possible.  On your trip of course that may not always be possible!

Offline Esla

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #126 on: March 03, 2015, 11:03:00 AM »
If not this trip I think I'll will get or build a case to fit GoPro and Tascam/Zoom together.  It will be used for several trips and passed along to other volunteers if I am un-able to make it...At least until we get a proper media volunteer.

One of the things that is attractive with the WIFI Tascam is that you can set it up and monitor it from anywhere.  Media capture during these events is secondary, I have to participate in the discussions and celebrations first, capture sound and video second.  I'd feel the same way at a show, they are always funner when your sweating and dancing than on headphones.  The freedom to mount and be cordless is AWESOME.

As far as noise, I think it is more of an issue when taping the discussions and interviews.  Percussion, singing and laughter will likely over power any noise on either device. The interviews I got last time were stupid bad with the GoPro rear facing camera.

So I lied, I have one more question and that may come through on your future shoot out.  Which stands better chance of being articulate between different timbers and notes?

This wont matter to 99% of listeners, but I'm personally addicted to chopping and slicing loops and samples and then mangling them through analog processors and turning them into Maschine instruments.  That iPhone capture was difficult to manipulate in this way.  I think the best stereo image will help.  Its also likely with so many fast and peaky notes it will be tough slice no matter what.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 12:45:59 PM by Esla »

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #127 on: March 03, 2015, 04:55:00 PM »
I don't know what the range is, but has to be a range to the 22wl.

If you are participating, you have to find a way to mount it in an appropriate location to pickup the events.  This means a stand or finding something to clamp it to  or having someone hold it, and that's unpredictable.   

It could be you would have better control, use less batteries and get better recordings by wearing the recorder on your person and adding some external microphones to your hat or shirt collar like the Church Audio mics or some of the AT 831s that Darktrain has for sale in the yard sale here. 

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #128 on: March 03, 2015, 08:35:45 PM »
Quote
One of the things that is attractive with the WIFI Tascam is that you can set it up and monitor it from anywhere.

You may be fully aware of the limitations, but just to be sure - you can monitor levels live, but you cannot monitor the sound (eg on headphones connected to your phone) live.  But you can replay remotely.  "Anywhere" has to be within the wifi range of the device. 

I have to say that the scenarios you describe are ones that the DR-22WL addresses well.  Indeed you'd need to mount it on some kind of stand or tripod (or on top of a camera on its tripod) and you'd probably need an external power pack for prolonged use on wifi, but these days that's no big deal.  Also a suitable USB extension lead to allow the power pack to be placed on the ground at the bottom of the tripod.

Now about the shootout - I've decided that as it covers a few different devices, and raises some general points about recording matters, it merits its own thread (and it might be missed here by anyone not specifically interested in the Tascam recorder).  I'm about to post that now.

Offline Esla

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #129 on: March 03, 2015, 08:57:39 PM »
I don't know what the range is, but has to be a range to the 22wl.

If you are participating, you have to find a way to mount it in an appropriate location to pickup the events.  This means a stand or finding something to clamp it to  or having someone hold it, and that's unpredictable.   

It could be you would have better control, use less batteries and get better recordings by wearing the recorder on your person and adding some external microphones to your hat or shirt collar like the Church Audio mics or some of the AT 831s that Darktrain has for sale in the yard sale here.

Not ready to get that serious but when/if I ever am I would probably flip the Tascam for the M10 right? 

I have GoPro clamp mounts and monopod that can stab in the dirt.  I plan on picking up one of those $30 ultra compact tripods from amazon (everything has to fit in a 40L bag).  The GoPro and field mic will probably trade between clamp and tripod.  Monopod more for quick captures while riding and walking.  I think it will be easy to stay in range from the reports found here.

Offline Esla

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #130 on: March 03, 2015, 09:22:43 PM »
I'm about to post that now.

Thanks to this forum I am aware of the limitations and allot more about the 22WL.  Thanks largely to all your posts. 

I didn't see any new threads with DR-22WL in them.  Have you posted yet?

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #131 on: March 04, 2015, 02:16:28 AM »
Yes, I did post and I think you've now seen it.

Perversely, but it's more relevant here, I'll comment here on recorder usability arising from doing the shootout. 

When I mounted the M10 on the mic stand so that the recorder was level with my nose (the height I had each device) I realised at once that in order to adjust the levels before running the test, I'd have to lower the stand so that I could actually see the display and controls.  And to set it recording I had to kind of stand on tiptoes to unpause it when it was at the required height. 

The H2N was no problem because apart from the mic pattern control, everything is visible or reachable when it's on a stand (well, up to about 7 feet) due to its vertical configuration. 

Of course when it came to the Tascam recorder, once I'd established the wifi link I could do everything else from the phone.  If it was on the top of a 20 foot stand, no problem.  Getting the level exactly right by touch on the phone screen was slightly tricky, but no big deal really.

So for use on a greater-than-nose-height stand, looking at ease of use, the Tascam comes first, the H2N second, and the M10 last.

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #132 on: March 04, 2015, 09:49:17 AM »
On android 8 inch tablet, 22wl screen is huge.  Actually too much unused space.  Wish DR control software would allow customization of screen views. 

Have not tried it on phone.

What is the normal battery life of the zoom vs 22wl?

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #133 on: March 04, 2015, 05:25:53 PM »
Zoom quote 20 hours for the H2N - "Battery life when using alkaline batteries is more than 20 hours, even during continuous recording."

For the Tascam, they say "Max Battery Life    17.5 hours (recording), 19 hours (playback)".

So the Zoom has the edge there, but personally I'm mostly concerned with a scenario that involves an afternoon soundcheck followed by an evening concert.  Either would cover that easily but if the Wifi control of the Tascam is used, you'd almost certainly be looking at an external power pack, if only for peace of mind. 

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #134 on: March 04, 2015, 05:36:28 PM »
Hey all, first post.

I am currently between the Tascam DR-22WL and the Zoom H2n.  Optimizer, I see you own each from reading threads here.  Would you try to shed some light on which would be best for my application?  I need it to take better than iPhone mic quality recordings of audio like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r9Gng3LKjI

I'll be going back to the African village shown in the images to celebrate the commissioning of the new solar water system my non-profit engineered and had installed.  These people know how to party! I want to capture their fantastic polyrhythmic percussion and dance in better definition to use in future fundraising media.  I chose these two mics because they are small, cheap and have seemingly good specs plus great features. 

What I want to capture by priority:
1) Polyrhythmic dance parties both small (20 people) and large (100+)
2) Small and large group discussions.  Ideal for remembering all said while discussing understandings in 3-4 languages
3) I'd also like to capture some southern Louisiana spring and swamp samples for personal compisitions (lower priority)

Concerns
a) Noise floor performance.
b) Which is greater:  flexible mic orientation the Zoom or  Wifi capability of the Tascam.
c) Which has higher quality

I hope this isn't a derail, I'm currently leaning toward DR-22WL.  I am not willing to break $150 at this time, most of my pennies are invested in fundraising and travel already.  I plan on getting the "dead cat" wind shield.  Any insight from anyone would be fantastic.

Thanks!

Ozpeter--let's assume you're going on this trip to make these recordings instead of Esla, but you can only take either the 22wl or the Zoom, but not both.  Which one would you take and why? 

 

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