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Author Topic: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control  (Read 29943 times)

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Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #135 on: March 04, 2015, 08:28:21 PM »
I think the answer is in this post -

Quote
One of the things that is attractive with the WIFI Tascam is that you can set it up and monitor it from anywhere.  Media capture during these events is secondary, I have to participate in the discussions and celebrations first, capture sound and video second.  I'd feel the same way at a show, they are always funner when your sweating and dancing than on headphones.  The freedom to mount and be cordless is AWESOME.

Overall, the H2N would make a better recording in the first place (IMHO) but if operational practicalities meant that it couldn't be so well placed etc then that advantage might disappear.  I suspect that the Tascam recorder's sound could be tweaked in post-production to sound not much different from the H2N.  So, on this occasion, taking all things into account, the Tascam would be my choice.

Roll on the day when there's an H2WL (wifi controlled H2N)!

Offline Esla

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #136 on: March 05, 2015, 02:11:28 AM »

Overall, the H2N would make a better recording in the first place (IMHO) but if operational practicalities meant that it couldn't be so well placed etc then that advantage might disappear.  I suspect that the Tascam recorder's sound could be tweaked in post-production to sound not much different from the H2N.  So, on this occasion, taking all things into account, the Tascam would be my choice.

Roll on the day when there's an H2WL (wifi controlled H2N)!

I have been coming to the same conclusion.  However, before I make my mind I need to do two things.

1)  research remote recording methods and determine if the ideas in my head are smart or not.
2) really think about power consumption and if I'll even bother with wifi.  I learned today that power in the capitol is very intermittent at the moment.  So my off grid days are 5 and my on grid days are no guarantee.

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #137 on: March 05, 2015, 12:17:42 PM »
I think you are on the right track.

You might search for Mardi Gras recordings on archive.org and look at the equipment used there.  It's not so easy thinking of where you could find something exactly like what you want to record.  Moreover, I doubt that the people you want to record line up in a choral formation to make things predictable and easy for you.  That makes me think you would want to be in the middle of the event and use omnis.   I haven't experienced what you have experienced so I may be badly wrong, but if the sounds you want to record are coming from all around you, looks like omnis would be the best choice. 

FWIW, I recommend that you email or PM Chris at Church-Audio.com, tell him what you are doing and ask what he recommends.  He has been having a $99 sale on his mics including a 9v battery box (will run for days and days on a battery) in the Retail section.  Not sure if the sale is still going, but please consider that external mics can really improve your recording no matter which portable recorder you pick.  $99 compared to the cost of travel to Africa and coming away with a useable recording is not out of reason.

Look for reviews where users have posted their experience with battery life vs. the paper specs.  Unlike the US where we can run in a store and buy AAs, your situation is very different.  From what I understand, people sometimes walk for days in Africa to attend an event.  You don't want to miss a recording because of a recorder that sucks the life out of your batteries.   I'm too new to the 22wl to be certain, but I have owned a Dr05 for a few years now, and know the DR05 is not a battery hog.  It was also selling for $59 at one point, but the current retail price seems to be $99.  There are some threads by JoelPatterson on GearSlutz.com called "troy night out" where he walked around the streets of Troy, NY making recordings with his DR05 and a camera.  Take a few minutes and check it out. 




Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #138 on: March 09, 2015, 06:17:41 PM »
I've been trying the DR22 with an external battery pack for the last few hours and using that I've been able to verify that if the device is set to never sleep, then when the transport is idle, the wifi connection remains available for an extended period even if the remote control device disconnects altogether.  That's true when it's recording too.  So you can go and have drinks in the interval with your phone in your pocket switched off, and regain control when you go back into the auditorium.  Or you can start recording, turn off your phone, then at the end of the show turn back on, reconnect, re-run the app, and press stop.

Note that even on external power, if you set the device to sleep after (say) three minutes' non-use, and you stop it with the remote, it will go to sleep after 3 mins and the only way to get it back on is to use the controls on the device itself.

Put the 22wl on the stage of a local elementary school talent contest and went to auditorium balcony.  Had good signal and adjusted levels.  Set it down on the bleachers in the balcony  and less than minute later lost signal to tablet.  I just let it run until the end of the show and turned it off manually.   Don't know if the steel railing on the balcony messed with the signal or why the signal dropped. 

So I could have reconnected and gotten control over the input level in the middle of the recording? 

« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 06:19:29 PM by 2manyrocks »

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #139 on: March 10, 2015, 05:32:06 AM »
You should be able to exit from the app and run it a again in order to regain control, without affecting anything.  Indeed you should be able to turn off the phone wifi and back in order to reconnect.  But try these things at home first to test (by getting too far from the recorder to stimulate a connection problem).

Could you see what the blue wifi light was doing when you had the problem?

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #140 on: March 10, 2015, 11:47:01 AM »
I didn't have a clear view of the light.  I was probably 70-80 feet away.  The only thing between the tablet and the 22wl was the metal balcony rail--which is made of tubing.  Not a solid rail. 

I will have another recording opportunity later in the week.   

Offline phil_er_up

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #141 on: March 10, 2015, 12:27:10 PM »
I think you are on the right track.

You might search for Mardi Gras recordings on archive.org and look at the equipment used there.  It's not so easy thinking of where you could find something exactly like what you want to record.  Moreover, I doubt that the people you want to record line up in a choral formation to make things predictable and easy for you.  That makes me think you would want to be in the middle of the event and use omnis.   I haven't experienced what you have experienced so I may be badly wrong, but if the sounds you want to record are coming from all around you, looks like omnis would be the best choice. 


Have participated and recorded many drum circles/percussion/instrument outdoor sessions and think it is a hard event to record.

As "2manyrocks" states each drum circle/percussion/instrument event is different. Sometimes we line up straight with 2 groups facing each other. More like lines of people. Then other times we have small circles maybe 15 feet wide up to large circle up to 60 feet wide. Then other times it is people just jamming in a straight line and could be up to 60 feet difference between first person inline and last. Sometimes the circle/lines move during the event. Could not list all the different configuration that are possible here.

What I have learned is:

Where you place the mics are critical.
What kind of mic you pick to use is important.
Every session is different - You might need to make changes on the fly.
Outdoor conditions make it harder...wind, rain, heat and the difficulties this cause with the recording and gear.

What I have found, In a circle you can use omnis and it picks up the group relatively well...whoever is closet to the recorder/mics is usually loudest though the bigger sounding instruments can overpower the other instruments. There are problems here with many instruments are at different volumes in the recording. If it is a line of drummers or performers one set of omni mics is not going to pick up the performers at the ends very well. Tricky to get the levels set on the recorder properly due to performers coming/going and changing position in the circle/line all the time. Usually I get a pretty raw recording meaning there are problems with the recording each time due to some issues listed above and others. Some recordings are hard to listen to and do not sound good.

When the people speak in a drum circle it is almost inaudible in the recording due to the levels you set your recorder at are set for very loud music. Sometimes we play at actually outdoor venues and I can set my cards/omni mics up in back and then the recordings are more even and balanced. Though these recording sound distant compared to having an omni's in the center of the circle.

Also found some drummers/performers do not like you to record them. This can be a tricky situations due to so many people in the group and if no rule about taping has been established. Been told before these sessions are not to be recorded in very stern voices.

If I was going to go for a one device solution I would get the best recorder with omni mics. Not sure how much wifi helps you here in reality. If you have to move the mics...battery life...distance you can pick up the wifi...can not monitor recording on device...etc.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 01:21:52 PM by phil_er_up »
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Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #142 on: March 10, 2015, 06:52:06 PM »
Quote
I would get the best recorder with omni mics.

I strongly disagree, unless stereo image is unimportant.  There is no known / recommended stereo mic technique which uses omni mics at the kind of close spacing that building them into a portable recorder dictates.  At the end of the M10 sample in the recent shootout thread, when the source comes from about 60 degrees left for the last 5 seconds of the recording, the replayed sound barely moves from the centre.  Compare that with the other devices in that test.

When it comes to recording a source which is coming from all around the recorder, I would have thought the H2N's four channel mode has much to recommend it.  This provides four cardioid mics pointing (more or less) to all points of the compass, recorded to four individual tracks.  In post-production, this gives you (again, roughly) four stereo pairs to choose from at any given moment, one pair facing front (front L and front R), one pointing right (front R and rear R), one pointing back (rear R and rear L) and one left (rear L and front L), and of course combinations of that - with a full width stereo image always available.

Offline phil_er_up

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #143 on: March 11, 2015, 07:26:41 AM »
Quote
I would get the best recorder with omni mics.

I strongly disagree, unless stereo image is unimportant.  There is no known / recommended stereo mic technique which uses omni mics at the kind of close spacing that building them into a portable recorder dictates.  At the end of the M10 sample in the recent shootout thread, when the source comes from about 60 degrees left for the last 5 seconds of the recording, the replayed sound barely moves from the centre.  Compare that with the other devices in that test.

When it comes to recording a source which is coming from all around the recorder, I would have thought the H2N's four channel mode has much to recommend it.  This provides four cardioid mics pointing (more or less) to all points of the compass, recorded to four individual tracks.  In post-production, this gives you (again, roughly) four stereo pairs to choose from at any given moment, one pair facing front (front L and front R), one pointing right (front R and rear R), one pointing back (rear R and rear L) and one left (rear L and front L), and of course combinations of that - with a full width stereo image always available.

I thought the H2n was only XY not mid-side my bad. Agreed the H2N would probably be better here then a single device recorder with omnis.
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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #144 on: March 11, 2015, 06:51:02 PM »
The last 3 posts seem very practical observations to me.  There is a used H2n at Trew Audio for $100 if Elsa has any interest in it. 

Offline Esla

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #145 on: March 14, 2015, 11:52:37 AM »
The last 3 posts seem very practical observations to me.  There is a used H2n at Trew Audio for $100 if Elsa has any interest in it.

Damn!  Life got in the way the last couple of weeks and I missed out on a couple really good H2n deals!  Thanks to you all I think I have come to realize that the H2n is the best for my application.  As much as wireless control would be nice I think the capture and and extended battery life (with no wifi temptation) of the Zoom gives it a clear edge.

Who know, I may trade it for something else before the following trip just to compare...I'm pretty slutty with music and recording gear.  I'll post samples.

Cheers!

Offline Esla

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #146 on: March 14, 2015, 05:22:48 PM »

Have participated and recorded many drum circles/percussion/instrument outdoor sessions and think it is a hard
What I have learned is:

Where you place the mics are critical.
What kind of mic you pick to use is important.
Every session is different - You might need to make changes on the fly.
Outdoor conditions make it harder...wind, rain, heat and the difficulties this cause with the recording and gear.

What I have found, In a circle you can use omnis and it picks up the group relatively well...whoever is closet to the recorder/mics is usually loudest though the bigger sounding instruments can overpower the other instruments. There are problems here with many instruments are at different volumes in the recording. If it is a line of drummers or performers one set of omni mics is not going to pick up the performers at the ends very well. Tricky to get the levels set on the recorder properly due to performers coming/going and changing position in the circle/line all the time. Usually I get a pretty raw recording meaning there are problems with the recording each time due to some issues listed above and others. Some recordings are hard to listen to and do not sound good.

When the people speak in a drum circle it is almost inaudible in the recording due to the levels you set your recorder at are set for very loud music. Sometimes we play at actually outdoor venues and I can set my cards/omni mics up in back and then the recordings are more even and balanced. Though these recording sound distant compared to having an omni's in...

The party circles have a line of 4-8 women on perc and the entire circle is clapping and singing.  Dancers make center placement tough but large over hanging mango trees could provide creative placement opportunities.  These are at night within a small compound in the village.  The main event stuff is different, much bigger.  Center placement is easy at first cuz they put us in the middle to eat as with any visitors.  After that we move to the edge and likely so will the mic.  This is our third trip but first finished project, I have no idea what to expect for the official commissioning celebration, I suspect it will be different from the forums and public meetings we had in the past.  Probably grow from big to huge.

I wish every meeting at my job had a meal and percussion;)

Thanks for sharing your drum circle capture experience.

Offline kylieshotpants

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #147 on: March 18, 2015, 11:17:47 AM »
Hi

just a quick update I have used this recorder for two shows so far using
SP-BMC-2 - Sound Professionals Miniature Binaural Microphones standard sensitivity Omnidirectional
Church audio 9v battery box

my settings  24 bit 44 kHz
bass roll off 40Hz
manual level 0

I like to go a bit conservative as you can go louder in post.
The first show was a loud rock show in a 5000 capacity hall
The second was a small club type venue with a very loud techno act

Both recordings have come out very well no distortion etc.

without trying it in the future I am not sure how higher you can go on the level as I was only about 7db under during the loudest parts.

On the whole I am very pleased with the unit- I stealth so only problem, is it is big! and am yet to use the Wi-Fi - which is the main reason for buying it- but have not tested how long the battery's will last on average.


Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #148 on: March 18, 2015, 06:31:02 PM »
Quote
I stealth so only problem, is it is big!

That's where the wifi remote is handy - nobody will notice you fiddling with a phone, not realising you're actually controlling a recorder tucked into your coat pocket or whatever.  But indeed, it's not the most pocket-friendly device, and adding an external power supply to help with the wifi battery consumption doesn't help matters.  I guess if you are a lady it would all go easily into a handbag, but if you're not, well, you're going to have to wear a wig.

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Tascam DR-22WL 2ch recorder with Wifi app remote control
« Reply #149 on: March 18, 2015, 07:19:36 PM »
Phone may be the way to go.  I have used the 22wl in a school gym, church sanctuary and now a school auditorium with an android tablet.  It's fine close by, as soon as I walked 30-40' feet away, it became laggy and unreliable.  Could be the tablet.  Haven't tried it with a phone yet.  Being able to ride the gain with wildly varying sound sources is a plus, though. 

 

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