Topic: Tinybox question

[harmon712]

I just got my Tinybox and have a quick question.  The switch to turn on the Tinybox says low/high.  Would I set that to low or high?
Also how long does the battery usually last before needing to be recharged? 

[bombdiggity]

An email to Jon may be best since each one is somewhat custom in configuration. 

Battery life is addressed on the Naiant site.  It depends on what you're powering. 

[pohaku]

What phantom power options did you order?  The far right switch (the on/off switch) is likely high for 48v phantom and low for PIP or other microphone power.  You should check with Jon to be certain as each box is a custom arrangement.

[harmon712]

What phantom power options did you order?  The far right switch (the on/off switch) is likely high for 48v phantom and low for PIP or other microphone power.  You should check with Jon to be certain as each box is a custom arrangement.

This is what I got.

Input: 6 pin mini 48v phantom
Amplifier: standard
Output connectors: single minijack
Output type: direct line only
Output dc tolerance: 16v

[harmon712]

Phantom switches between 48V and 16V.  tinyboxes for PIP always supply 8V, irrespective of power switch setting.

Phantom runtime varies with the mics; anywhere between three and ten hours at 48V and up to 20 hours at 16V.

Would that mean high for 48v

[willndmb]

Phantom switches between 48V and 16V.  tinyboxes for PIP always supply 8V, irrespective of power switch setting.

Phantom runtime varies with the mics; anywhere between three and ten hours at 48V and up to 20 hours at 16V.

Would that mean high for 48v

yes

[harmon712]

Another question...how long does the Tinybox take to charge and does the light change color when done?

[willndmb]

Another question...how long does the Tinybox take to charge and does the light change color when done?

i never timed it but I want to say approx four hrs
The light turns from red to green
FYI, I have version 1.5 if it matters or not I'm not sure

[harmon712]

My test with both switches on high gave me just under 3.5 hours before it died.  Also not sure if it was fully charged, if the light changes from red to green it was not.

Would the low/mid settings (which I would be using for a show anyway) last longer or about the same?  I might have to do another test soon when I know the battery is fully charged with the switch to mid.

I'll be taping Travelin McCourys and Jeff Austin Band 11/12 & 11/13.  Hopefully I have enough battery time to get it all taped.

[bombdiggity]

My test with both switches on high gave me just under 3.5 hours before it died.  Also not sure if it was fully charged, if the light changes from red to green it was not.

Would the low/mid settings (which I would be using for a show anyway) last longer or about the same?  I might have to do another test soon when I know the battery is fully charged with the switch to mid.

I'll be taping Travelin McCourys and Jeff Austin Band 11/12 & 11/13.  Hopefully I have enough battery time to get it all taped.

It is rare you'd need to have the output on high at any moderately amplified show.  I use mid or low on loud ones. 

If you're using phantom powered mics you would need to have the on switch set to high.  Those mics will use more battery but if fully charged you should have enough power for almost any regular concert/double bill.  I've never had mine run out unless I've not recharged it, though supplying phantom it may not make it through a typical festival day. 

The light turns from orange to green when you recharge.  I usually leave it to charge overnight but suspect it is a 6 4 to 5 hour process, then runs about 5 hours the same for me when using phantom. 

When running the light turns from green to red as the battery discharges.  Once red you don't have much time left. 

{Corrected (per the builder) below, and apparently more or less ignore the lights, other than if running and it turns red you'll want to turn it off... }

[F.O.Bean]

I just read the Naiant website, and it states that if running actives like my Schoeps, you can get up to 20 hours per charge on the Tinybox. But running just capsules on an active setup takes up much less power, even though I think the voltage to the caps is higher than +48v.

But you don't need to worry about that if you're just running standard +48v phantom powered mics

[harmon712]

Phantom switches between 48V and 16V.  tinyboxes for PIP always supply 8V, irrespective of power switch setting.

Phantom runtime varies with the mics; anywhere between three and ten hours at 48V and up to 20 hours at 16V.

I have cheap Rode M5 mics now and will be getting Busman BSC1's when I have the money.

http://www.rodemic.com/microphones/m5 says P24/P48

[harmon712]

Rode does not specify the current draw, so I can't estimate runtime.  You could try them at 16V though; since they specify 24V it might work.

I think I remember switching it to low when testing it and it looked like it was working.

[harmon712]

I'll try a recording tonight and see how it works.

[jmerin]

I'll try a recording tonight and see how it works.

Your best bet is to set the gear up and time it.  That is my plan when I receive mine.

[harmon712]

I'll try a recording tonight and see how it works.

Your best bet is to set the gear up and time it.  That is my plan when I receive mine.

I did and got just under 3.5 hours.

[harmon712]

Seems to work at 16V.  I'll have my test recording on archive.org soon

[jmerin]

I'll try a recording tonight and see how it works.

Your best bet is to set the gear up and time it.  That is my plan when I receive mine.

I did and got just under 3.5 hours.

3.5 on high gain... On low you should get 20 hrs

[F.O.Bean]

I'll try a recording tonight and see how it works.

Your best bet is to set the gear up and time it.  That is my plan when I receive mine.

I did and got just under 3.5 hours.

3.5 on high gain... On low you should get 20 hrs

I know this is about my old 9v Littlebox, but it only got 6 hours on the High Power setting. Well, on Low Power, it got 18 hours, so it really is realistic to get a LOT more recording time running on Low Power. It's not like I EVER noticed my recordings suffering from losing just a couple db of headroom or whatever you're losing when you do that. It certainly was never audible. And if it means you can get 3x the recording time, then I say its definitely worth it, wouldn't you?

And us Schoeps users running just caps>KCY>TB/LB, get so much recording time since the TB/LB is just powering our caps, and not bodies too. Even though I think Jon said before that the Schoeps caps on his preamps get OVER +48v powering, like they're supposed to. They get +50v or +55v or +60v I believe. I'm sure Jon can chime in and set the record straight, but I could've swore that Jon said before that the Schoeps caps running his preamps get above the regular +48v on High Power. But, I could definitely be wrong. I know that the Schoeps caps SHOULD get +60v if my memory is correct. I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that my new Schoeps VMS02ib preamp will supply the caps with +60v?!?!?! Since it IS a Schoeps preamp and all, but I have ZERO data to back that up lol

If there is any way that I could check without ruining my Schoeps gear, please let me know, and when I get the VMS02ib in a couple days, I'll check and see how much voltage the caps are getting

Sorry if I kinda highjacked the thread. I honestly didn't mean to!!!

[harmon712]

Seems to work at 16V.  I'll have my test recording on archive.org soon

Actually got my Jeff Austin Band recording up before the test recording of Chicago Farmer

https://archive.org/details/JeffAustin2014-11-12.rodem5.flac24

Haven't worked on the setlist yet.

[harmon712]

I'm going to have to test it again with 16V. I have Leftover Salmon NYE shows that ends at 2am both days. Still trying to save for Busman BSC1 which I also hope will give me longer recording time at 48V.

[F.O.Bean]

Polarization voltage among tiny and littleboxes is a mixed bag.  v1 littleboxes will provide 48V polarization on high and 21V on low.  v1.5 was capable of 60V (actually up to 130V, but that was never shipped in a production unit), which it would supply on either high or low.  tinybox v1.5 (the first with a high voltage rail) was 45V.  v2 and later can supply either 48V or 54V, depending on whether or not the box was also built for phantom power.  If the box is combined active + phantom, it's 48V, otherwise, 54V.  v2.2 and later will usually be 16V on low, unless a multi-mic configuration prevents that (those are rare).

PFAs will supply about 40V.

I believe the VMS supplies 58V and the CMC 60V.  Not sure why the difference, but it's not material.

Table of sensitivity (also affects self-noise and SPL handling), by polarization voltage, compared to 60V:

60V: 0dB
58V: -0.3dB
54V: -0.9dB
48V: -1.9dB
45V: -2.5dB
40V: -3.5dB
21V: -9.1dB
16V: -11.5dB

So does this mean that my current LB[KCY/OT], not sure which version it is, will lose 12db of gain when running it at LOW power? Acting like a -12db pad like you said previously? Now I understand what you meant when you said that about the -12db pad lol Am I losing anything else when running at LOW power with my Schoeps actives Like headroom or anything serious?

[F.O.Bean]

The box I have on my bench is a v1.5, that is the same on high or low.  You have less headroom on low, +15dBV vs. +19dBV on high.

So I have exactly the same amount of gain whether I'm on High or Low power? That's awesome news IMO I was going to say, I've never noticed any change in gain going from High to Low power! So I'm losing 4db of headroom? I have never noticed anything audible in running High vs. Low gain, so I'll keep running Low power

Thanks for the info Jon. I never had any idea as to which version I had, so now I know for sure that it's a v1.5

[F.O.Bean]

And I noticed above that you said that the v1.5 Littlebox supplies +60v on BOTH high and low power, correct? If so, that's great news too, and I feel a lot safer now knowing that I can run my KCY/OT littlebox in high or low power and have the exact same voltage to my Schoeps capsules

[willndmb]

I always get mixed up on what version lb/tb I have and the difference ways (along with pros/cons) to run so I always use high for 48 and active, low for pip

[F.O.Bean]

Wowza, as usual, you are da MAN Jon I now understand what you're talking about, kinda lol. Hell, I went to school for Electronics back in 2001/2002 and still don't understand all of the technical lingo. Guess I should've finished school and graduated and maybe I would understand this kind of stuff better

[harmon712]

Phantom switches between 48V and 16V.  tinyboxes for PIP always supply 8V, irrespective of power switch setting.

Phantom runtime varies with the mics; anywhere between three and ten hours at 48V and up to 20 hours at 16V.

I have cheap Rode M5 mics now and will be getting Busman BSC1's when I have the money.

http://www.rodemic.com/microphones/m5 says P24/P48

I have the Busman BSC1s now. Going to test with those tomorrow.