Topic: Moving up from SoundPro/Church to Actives and a TinyBox...

[Chrisedge]

I am thinking about moving from my Sound Pro configured AT933s (as well as some Church rarely used CA14 Card/Omni's) to another set of Hyper or Card mics. I love the size (Stealth only here) of the Schoeps Caps and active cables into a TinyBox, but don't QUITE have the funds for that yet. What else is there that is that small? I am lost in a sea of threads, and pictures. Looked at AKG ck63 caps but what else would I need? Love the size of the Schopes set up that I saw in Darktrain's "It's Real Thread"...Can someone tell me what they use, rough pricing and any links to sound samples?

God, I sound like a painintheass. Help!

[Cobiwan]

Chris I have a Schoeps> KC5>tinybox rig and I absolutely love it, but I understand how long it takes to get the funds to get there.
Have you considered doing nBob's active cables with AKG caps> tinybox? Lot less $ than a Schoeps stealth rig but still very good results.

[Chrisedge]

Chris I have a Schoeps> KC5>tinybox rig and I absolutely love it, but I understand how long it takes to get the funds to get there.
Have you considered doing nBob's active cables with AKG caps> tinybox? Lot less $ than a Schoeps stealth rig but still very good results.

Yep...just wondering what I am dealing with, in regards to the nBob actives. Is it just the collettes and they terminate into a miniXLR? Or is there more to them?

I know the caps are around $600 new (pair) but what else should I expect from a price perspective?

[blg]

I am more than likely going to be selling a set of nbob actives and tinybox in the next few weeks.  All you would need is the schoeps caps and a deck and you'd be set.

As others have said, i love this setup and don't think there is a better  rig.

[edtyre]

Both the Schoeps and AKG's sound great and are a big upgrade to what you have.

Last year Nicky C and myself ran CK-61 > nbox and MK-4 > Nbox in a side by side comp
The Schoeps sounded a tad better. Both sounded really great with not too much difference.

I'd say move to the AKG's as soon as possible and if you decide (and can afford the Schoeps) later
you will have NO problem selling the AKG gear and moving on.

I'm not up on the current prices (so correct me if i'm wrong)
ck-61(new)=600
nbob actives=450
tinybox=280
mk-4(used)=1000

[blg]

I can't help on the AKG's, but i bought both a tinybox and nbobs in the past 2 months:

Tinybox = $350
NBob's = $520

[daspyknows]

I agree with Ed's comments.  Both will be a significant upgrade.  There seems to be an upgrade push going on.  I know 2 other tapers upgrading to the Schoeps with actives rig.  The more the merrier.   

[colargol]

I upgraded to Schoeps/nbox in 2009 and later I have gotten a tinybox also. My only regret is not doing it earlier...

[yates7592]

If you really want Schoeps, then my advice would be to hold back on the AKG's, because (i) they aren't as good; and (ii) it will rob you of money that could be put towards saving for Schoeps and delay your final destination even longer.

[Humbug]

Can you run actives + caps open? How would you shock mount them?

[achalsey]

If you really want Schoeps, then my advice would be to hold back on the AKG's, because (i) they aren't as good; and (ii) it will rob you of money that could be put towards saving for Schoeps and delay your final destination even longer.

I feel like this is pretty subjective.  It doesn't sound like he is totally sold on Schoeps just for the sound, but mostly from the size of the set up.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the Schoeps sound.  I know there are others who are in that same boat.  I've been running AKG actives (61s and 63s) for a good while now and and the two other guys I've taped with the most in the past both run either MK4s or MK41s (or more recently both).  Obviously a little personal bias is at play, but 9 times out of 10 I prefer my source to theirs.  That is not to say AKG is the be all end all mics, but to me personally they have a better sound signature than Schoeps. 

To be fair, Schoeps does get the slight edge in detail and clarity, but only just.  The difference is small enough that, to me, it is not enough to be anywhere close to a deal breaker. 

Just wanted to put that out there for a different opinion.  When I A/B my source against a buddy's Schoeps from the stand stand, the AKG feel a little too bright, slightly thin, but 'open' while the Schoeps feel a little too 'thick.'  'Dark' is thrown around a lot, and not a great description in my opinion, but there is something about the lows, or low mids that just seem to fill the recording.  Nothing boomy or anything, just something that seems to fill the background, making them sounding stuffy.

My two cents.  In my perfect world I'd choose something in between the two sounds.  But I'm not looking to move around mics so am happy with the AKGs at the moment.

[Cobiwan]

Can you run actives + caps open? How would you shock mount them?

Mount on a DIN/DINa/ORTF/etc bar

[Chrisedge]

Thanks for all the replies!

I was interested in the AKG's mainly from a price perspective. I have heard many a Schopes recording, but I am really interested in hypers as the normal cards just pick up too much around me (or the tapers) to make me interested. Anyone with some MK41 vs CK63 examples? Or just great pulls with either?

[jbell]

You can check some of mine and Allyn's pulls on etree!  You should do some listening before pulling the trigger and decide what sound you like the best and if it warrants spending more or less money.  Most people are going to be bias toward the mics they run so doing some listening on your own would help you out a lot.

Thanks for all the replies!

I was interested in the AKG's mainly from a price perspective. I have heard many a Schopes recording, but I am really interested in hypers as the normal cards just pick up too much around me (or the tapers) to make me interested. Anyone with some MK41 vs CK63 examples? Or just great pulls with either?

[achalsey]

There are definitely more options on etree.  Here's the only LMA recording John and I did.  Thought I'd find some of Stu's as well but guess not.  I'm not exactly DINa but the mics are right next to each other in basically the same pattern.  Obviously pres and recorder are different.  I think it goes to show how relatively small the differences are though.  That said, these are not the best recordings.  Not bad, but string bands in the Orange Peel usually don't make spectacular recordings.  Also, I will concede that this is on the shows that I will say I think John's 41s might sound a little better.   

https://archive.org/details/GSBG2014-09-26.CK63.MiniMe.flac16
https://archive.org/details/GSBG2014-09-26.MK41.PSP3.flac16

As close to stealth set up I've got is this Umphreys show.  FOB, little above head height.  It think it sounds pretty good.

https://archive.org/details/UM2014-02-14.CK63.V2.flac16

[Chrisedge]

There are definitely more options on etree.  Here's the only LMA recording John and I did.  Thought I'd find some of Stu's as well but guess not.  I'm not exactly DINa but the mics are right next to each other in basically the same pattern.  Obviously pres and recorder are different.  I think it goes to show how relatively small the differences are though.  That said, these are not the best recordings.  Not bad, but string bands in the Orange Peel usually don't make spectacular recordings.  Also, I will concede that this is on the shows that I will say I think John's 41s might sound a little better.   

https://archive.org/details/GSBG2014-09-26.CK63.MiniMe.flac16
https://archive.org/details/GSBG2014-09-26.MK41.PSP3.flac16

As close to stealth set up I've got is this Umphreys show.  FOB, little above head height.  It think it sounds pretty good.

https://archive.org/details/UM2014-02-14.CK63.V2.flac16

Very nice! Leaning towards the AKG's since it's more in the relm of what I would want to pay if I sell all my stuff I have now, and I could just get it new since neither come up for sale that often. I am still a ways off unless it's a screaming deal...Need to save more $$$

[robeti]

If you really want Schoeps, then my advice would be to hold back on the AKG's, because (i) they aren't as good; and (ii) it will rob you of money that could be put towards saving for Schoeps and delay your final destination even longer.

Would be my advice too.
That's why I'm saving money and not buying "upgrades" anymore.

Hope to run Schoeps summer 2015.

[Marshall7]

What's this "saving up" bullshit?  Don't any of you guys have credit cards?

[obaaron]

I've been running various AKG capsules with 460 bodies and Naiant actives almost exclusively for the last 2 years or so here is a link to a bunch of shows w/different config's: https://archive.org/search.php?query=Aaron%20Bowers%20AND%20collection%3Aetree . I have ZERO complaints, and have no plans of ever letting them go.

I did, however, recently purchase a set of Gefell 210's and REALLY like the sound....very crisp and detailed.  The Gefell caps are somewhere in between AKG and schoeps cost wise and also have an active option a la nBob, which I just received a set.  I would recommend seeking out some Gefell m20, m21 shows to take a listen to as well since you are tire kicking.  I'm very happy with my Moe pull from last week check it out on the archive link above...there are my AKG ck1 > Naiant actives > Tinybox and Gefell 210 > SD MP2 sources from the same stand..

[Humbug]

It's boa's incredible (Gefell) Black Crowes recordings from February 1997 that have me hesitating on going with Schoeps caps for open (and occasional stealth) taping. That, and my obsession with Italian motorcycles being the main drain on my spare finances :-) 

Thanks for the clarification on shock mounting above, I found the solution listed in the retail section.

[willndmb]

I like schoeps and akg
Own akg
My wallet doesn't allow for schoeps and my ears don't tell me they are worth the price difference to justify them anyway.
Point being, for those who say don't waste your time/money on akg and just save for schoeps are right if and only if you feel the sound is worth it to you.

[yates7592]

I like schoeps and akg
Own akg
My wallet doesn't allow for schoeps and my ears don't tell me they are worth the price difference to justify them anyway.
Point being, for those who say don't waste your time/money on akg and just save for schoeps are right if and only if you feel the sound is worth it to you.

Yes this is very true. Let your ears steer you in the right direction, dragging your wallet along behind.

[yates7592]

What's this "saving up" bullshit?  Don't any of you guys have credit cards?

My philosophy too. If you need top gear, don't not buy it just cos you're broke. That's what CC's are for right?

[Chrisedge]

What's this "saving up" bullshit?  Don't any of you guys have credit cards?

My philosophy too. If you need top gear, don't not buy it just cos you're broke. That's what CC's are for right?

I have a bit saved, and don't buy things like this on credit. Unless it's interest free and I can pay it off.
Credit is for cars and homes.

[stevetoney]

I like schoeps and akg
Own akg
My wallet doesn't allow for schoeps and my ears don't tell me they are worth the price difference to justify them anyway.
Point being, for those who say don't waste your time/money on akg and just save for schoeps are right if and only if you feel the sound is worth it to you.

When I got into taping the ante for a rig that I felt satisfied my tastes enough that I didn't leave the venue kinda unfulfilled was between 1500 and 2000, but that was a long time ago.  That has come down to around 500 or so.  The incremental cost to go up to the upper end isn't a linear extrapolation from wherever you started, that's for sure. 

[Marshall7]

Credit is for cars and homes.

Credit is for buying what you want now, before somebody talks you out of it or you change your mind.

I figure the enjoyment I get out of something by having it immediately more than makes up for the interest I may incur, not to mention it avoids the frustration of waiting.  When you get to be 61 waiting isn't the most viable option.  Waiting to die, maybe...

[daspyknows]

Thanks for all the replies!

I was interested in the AKG's mainly from a price perspective. I have heard many a Schopes recording, but I am really interested in hypers as the normal cards just pick up too much around me (or the tapers) to make me interested. Anyone with some MK41 vs CK63 examples? Or just great pulls with either?

I have run MK4's for over 20 years but my U2 1987 from Oakland Coliseum was with rented MK41's and a PCM F-1.  I am pretty sure you have heard that one.

[blg]

Thanks for all the replies!

I was interested in the AKG's mainly from a price perspective. I have heard many a Schopes recording, but I am really interested in hypers as the normal cards just pick up too much around me (or the tapers) to make me interested. Anyone with some MK41 vs CK63 examples? Or just great pulls with either?

I have run MK4's for over 20 years but my U2 1987 from Oakland Coliseum was with rented MK41's and a PCM F-1.  I am pretty sure you have heard that one.

If you are looking for MK41 samples, I've posted pretty much everything I've taped with them.  You can check the links in my sig.  I'm pretty sure you grabbed my NIN Irvine or maybe the Jack White Fonda I posted on TTD.

More recent samples here:  https://soundcloud.com/billthree

[acidjack]

All I would add is you are better off buying what you actually want once rather than buying incremental upgrades. I say this as someone who did not follow this advice. Buying and selling costs way more money.

[yates7592]

^ Agreed. I've wasted so much money buying "upgrades" only to find a few months down the line that I "need" (want) something better. Best to do your research now or forever nurse your wallet.

[yates7592]

And I would add, this might sound obvious, but when you're auditioning various recordings, try to listen on decent speakers or headphones to confirm whether that is the sound you are really looking for.

[stevetoney]

I'll say that it's good advice to save and buy what you want, but good luck following it.  I never had the patience to save up for what I wanted while doing without during that time.  LOL.  On the positive side, it's alot of fun trying out gear along the way and once you've used it for awhile, you know what you like and don't like about it.

[willndmb]

I'll say that it's good advice to save and buy what you want, but good luck following it.  I never had the patience to save up for what I wanted while doing without during that time.  LOL.  On the positive side, it's alot of fun trying out gear along the way and once you've used it for awhile, you know what you like and don't like about it.

yeah if I was saving for the perfect rig then I wouldn't have taped anything in my life.
Sure some gear you take a hit but other gear is worth more and you have fun getting out there recording too

[pohaku]

If you buy judiciously, and particularly if you buy used, you likely won't take too much of a hit if you later sell to upgrade.  Certainly some gear, like mics, will tend to hold its value better than other gear, like software and converters.  I too am an advocate of saving and buying what you really want, as difficult as it is, but it took me a while and some now discarded equipment to learn that lesson.  Even if you don't have the discipline to wait and save, you can at least minimize the loss if you later want to upgrade.