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Offline StarkRavingCalm

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Splitters
« on: March 09, 2015, 03:52:00 PM »
What do people keep on hand for splitters?
For those times where there is no Patchbox available and more than one person wants the SBD feed?

Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2015, 04:19:52 PM »
I'd like to know about splitters too - are there any downsides to doing this to a signal?
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Offline acidjack

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2015, 04:50:55 PM »
Not if you use a good splitter.

I bought two Split 6's from Justin at ProSound. (B&H link here just because it came up first) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=351514&gclid=Cj0KEQjwifWnBRCB5PT57KSVw-kBEiQASV7aRB_VpwnP02UgU1SMJF-twc893HJr0xIlAoAHqJbyzt0aAkKm8P8HAQ&is=REG&Q=&A=details

Signal is identical for each of the 6 split feeds. Quite useful, especially at a local venue where lots of video guys like to go...
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Offline tgakidis

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2015, 04:51:50 PM »
Use them all the time with no issues.  I can build them any size and connector type.
GAKables: Custom XLR, Digi & Batt Cables http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133186.0

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Offline StarkRavingCalm

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2015, 10:29:49 AM »
Use them all the time with no issues.  I can build them any size and connector type.

I'd be very interested in these. Still love the cables you sold me last year.


What do people commonly carry with them?


Offline tgakidis

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2015, 11:13:48 AM »
I carry XLR splitters with XLR > RCA & XLR > 1/4"
Shorty cables
GAKables: Custom XLR, Digi & Batt Cables http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133186.0

Mics: Telefunken R-F-T AR-51 / Telefunken ELA M 260 (m962b,tk60,tk61,tk62) / Telefunken M60 / AKG c426b / AKG c414-xls / AKG c460b (ck61,ck62,ck63,ck69,a60,ck1x,mk46,ck1,ck3,ck8) / Nbob AKG Actives/Nbox Platinum / Naiant AKG Couplings/PFA / Blue B6 Capsules / AT853 w/ 4.7k Mod (U873R,Card,Omni,Sub)
Pre-Amps: Sonosax SX-M2 (x2) / Lunatec V3
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Marshall7

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2015, 07:37:05 PM »
Santorum and I use splitters all the time to share the soundboard feed at our favourite recording venue (XLR > XLR).   Never had a problem.  Not sure where he bought them, though.

Offline santorum

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2015, 01:14:38 AM »
Santorum and I use splitters all the time to share the soundboard feed at our favourite recording venue (XLR > XLR).   Never had a problem.  Not sure where he bought them, though.

The ones I bought were Hosa brand and I got them through amazon.com.  I think they were around $15 for the pair. 
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Offline StarkRavingCalm

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2015, 10:05:14 AM »
Santorum and I use splitters all the time to share the soundboard feed at our favourite recording venue (XLR > XLR).   Never had a problem.  Not sure where he bought them, though.

The ones I bought were Hosa brand and I got them through amazon.com.  I think they were around $15 for the pair.


Thanks.

Can you post the link?

Offline santorum

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2015, 12:03:01 AM »
Santorum and I use splitters all the time to share the soundboard feed at our favourite recording venue (XLR > XLR).   Never had a problem.  Not sure where he bought them, though.

The ones I bought were Hosa brand and I got them through amazon.com.  I think they were around $15 for the pair.


Thanks.

Can you post the link?

Sure, here's the link:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000068O59/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Mics: SP LSD2, AKG CK-61,62 & 63, Naiant AKG active couplings x4 (TB cable/PFA), DPA 4061 (Church 1/8" mod), Sony ECM717
Pres: AKG Tinybox, CA Ugly Pre, BM2P+ UA-5, CA Ugly BB
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Tascam DR-2D

Offline StarkRavingCalm

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2015, 10:36:00 AM »
Thanks.

I generaly use this cable for SBD patches:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005HGM1D6/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I carry some XLR adapters for those times where the board doesnt have 1/4 out.

Is it acceptable to use this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000068O1B/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A34VCPZVL7E6XQ

And get some splitters from there?

What about signal loss?

Offline phil_er_up

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2015, 11:21:06 AM »
Use them all the time with no issues.  I can build them any size and connector type.

I had ted make me a 2 foot XLR to XLR splitter, never had an issue and quality work. Use it for the board feeds so I can split it with the band recording, FOH recording rig or other tapers. Someone told me there is a 3DB reduction due to the split for each side of the split XLR.

Thanks jon for clarifying.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 03:25:21 PM by phil_er_up »
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Offline ~Jon Stoppable

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2015, 04:26:50 PM »
That's not true, it depends on the source impedance and load impedance of each split:

Zloadtotal = Zload0 || Zload1 || . . . Zloadn
where "||" means "in parallel with", or = 1 / (1/ZLoad0 + 1/Zload1 + . . . 1/Zloadn)

compared with an open circuit:

dB loss = 20 * log ( Zloadtotal / (Zsource + Zloadtotal))

or compared with a single load:

dB loss = 20 * log (( Zloadtotal / (Zsource + Zloadtotal)) / (Zload0 / (Zsource + Zload0)))

Such that if you have a 100 ohm source and 1K ohm loads, then compared with open circuit each added load yields:

1 -0.8dB
2 -1.6dB

So the loss from the first split is -0.8dB, subsequent splits vs. open circuit are:

3 -2.3dB
4 -2.9dB
5 -3.5dB

into *each* load (that is, every load will "see" a signal at that level).  Thus, the loss gets greater in total, but smaller compared with the previous split.

If the nominal loads are more typical 10K line inputs, the loss is much smaller:

1 -0.09dB
2 -0.17dB
3 -0.26dB
4 -0.34dB
5 -0.42dB

The person giving that advice may have been confusing what happens with speakers and power levels, which actually increase 3dB in total power as you double the count of speakers (of the same impedance), assuming your amp doesn't melt, just like adding more light bulbs in parallel in a room makes the room brighter, except for a tube amp which is more complicated as its source impedance is higher as tube amps are designed to match impedance to maximize power transfer so you have to switch output transformer taps for various loads.  Man, that was a long sentence.

Offline fobstl

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2015, 04:39:52 PM »
Santorum and I use splitters all the time to share the soundboard feed at our favourite recording venue (XLR > XLR).   Never had a problem.  Not sure where he bought them, though.

The ones I bought were Hosa brand and I got them through amazon.com.  I think they were around $15 for the pair.
I use a pair of these with no issues.


Thanks.

Can you post the link?

Sure, here's the link:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000068O59/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Offline StarkRavingCalm

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2015, 12:40:53 PM »
Most of what I have gotten for patches have been 1/4. I carry XLR adapter just in case the outputs aren't 1/4.

With that in mind, would a pair of these be sufficient?

http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-YPP118-Dual-Female-Cable/dp/B000068O56/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427301495&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=1%2F4+inch+headphone+splitte

Would there be any signal loss with these?

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2015, 02:41:58 AM »
Just wondering, what's the deal with a BNC>2x Male RCAs splitter, instead of my current BNC>Male RCA, for splitting my signal out of my vms02ib ??? Just that simple $6 adapter at Radio Shack or something like that is what I'm talking about :) Degraded signal? Or exactly the same?

I want to run BNC>RCA>XLR>70D and BNC>RCA>Mini>M10 as a backup, but from the same BNC outputs. I was thinking of just running vms02ib>headphone output>M10, but its clearly not as good as the BNC outputs. And I don't see the point in running an inferior backup with the M10 through the headphone out, so I guess what I'm saying is, what do I need to get two outputs from the same BNC output? Preferably something small and inexpensive, that will give me the exact same optimal output from a single BNC on the vms02ib? And hopefully ending in a Female RCA, so that I can use a Male RCA input on my end :) 8)

Thanks in advance for the info. I know that using DATs back in the day, those simple Coax splitters that were just one small adapter without a cable, that you could get at RS, were pretty finicky, so that's why I'm curious about those doing what I need to do :) Id love to get by with a $5 connector/adapter, but I'm willing to spend a little bit to make that option work if I need an amplifier or something? lol 8)

The 1st person I asked was my buddy Tonedeaf. The man knows his stuff 8) :headphones: Actually I need to read his one response to me to see what he thinks too :) So lmk what yinz think 8)

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stevetoney

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2015, 07:14:53 AM »
The 1st person I asked was my buddy Tonedeaf. The man knows his stuff 8) :headphones:

Not in this case Bean.  I'll let you know when I don't know and this was one of those cases. 

As Jon points out a couple of posts up, it seems there's a loss in signal sensitivity with each cable split, but if I interpret his response correctly, there's no degradation of the signal in terms of frequency response.  So if I'm interpreting right, you lose some headroom between the signal and the noise floor of your gear with each successive cable split, but for most of us live music tapers that's not a big deal.

Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2015, 08:53:57 AM »
The big risk with splitters is the dude you split with better have working gear! Or his problems will become yours!
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Offline fobstl

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2015, 10:38:49 AM »
The big risk with splitters is the dude you split with better have working gear! Or his problems will become yours!
And this is the reason that I bring and use splitters for the sbd, so I don't have to be behind someone in a chain and worry about his batteries dying, bad outputs, etc. And they have the same piece of mind if I would have been first out. Also for a complete backup just in case something would go wrong with my equipment.

A touring band that I tape on occasion used to run a mini disk out of the board and had me patch out of that. After the first show with a disk flip mid song, I always brought splitters to patch out of the board so we were both getting a direct signal. Never a missed note after that.

stevetoney

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2015, 10:45:10 AM »
It could certainly be a problem to share a split with a fellow who likes to patch and unpatch his gear constantly for fun, that will create spikes in your audio as well, or if his gear has a defect that creates a similar problem.  The only way to prevent that problem is with an active split (where each split has its own amplifier), and a good power supply that is tolerant of such foibles.

The products linked below all seem NOT to be active splitters per your comment above.  Is it safe to assume that, if you're using any of these that you could have the issues mentioned?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/357741-REG/Henry_Engineering_PATCHBOX_II_Patch_Box_II.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/333337-REG/Galaxy_Audio_JIB_S_JIB_S_Jack_In_The.html/prm/alsVwDtl

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/356436-REG/Rolls_MS20C_MS20C_Splitter_Combiner_Isolator.html/prm/alsVwDtl

Is it a good assumption though that as long as everything is plugged in before you start recording, you'd be OK with using one of these as a splitter?

Offline jbosco

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2015, 11:11:28 AM »
The scenario you describe is what I call 'patching out' not splitting.  Unless you have an isolated split you are still susceptible to drops and spikes from the other signal chain, when the load goes up or down for instance.

I totally agree, being patched out of someone whose equipment malfunctions is a complete drag but sometimes that's all there is.

The big risk with splitters is the dude you split with better have working gear! Or his problems will become yours!
And this is the reason that I bring and use splitters for the sbd, so I don't have to be behind someone in a chain and worry about his batteries dying, bad outputs, etc. And they have the same piece of mind if I would have been first out.
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stevetoney

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2015, 11:46:39 AM »
Thank you.

Offline StarkRavingCalm

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2015, 01:44:02 PM »
Just to clarify, I am talking about splitting, not patching out.

Those times where there a few people who want a SBD feed, this works great:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/357741-REG/Henry_Engineering_PATCHBOX_II_Patch_Box_II.html



My question was more of a "what if there are two of us who both want the feed and don't want the added footprint in our bag of the Patchbox?" type scenario.
What is small and compact but would not degrade (too much) the signal by splitting?

Is this a good option?

http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-YPP118-Dual-Female-Cable/dp/B000068O56/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427301495&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=1%2F4+inch+headphone+splitte

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2015, 04:18:17 AM »
OK, thanks a LOT Jon 8) Looks like a decent radio shack BNC 2x female rca adapter will do the trick and ill see what the outcome is. I really appreciate everyone's input :)

And I won't be patching with it per say, but I'll be running one output into the rca>70d and the other to my rca>m10
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 04:21:22 AM by F.O.Bean »
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Splitters
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2015, 09:08:27 PM »
Here's a pic of the splitters I'm going to use to run with my vms>70D and vms>m10 setups. I hooked everything up and ran the splitters and ran one set of RCAs>m10 and another pair of RCAs>my other m10 and set both m10s at [5] on the gain, and both channels had exactly the same gain. Both sounded identical to my ears, and were getting identical levels so, schweet 8) Then I kept switching between regular rca output and rca splitters outputs to the m10, and I got exactly the same levels running the splitters vs. NOT running the splitters, so I think I'm 100% good to go when I get the 70D. Once again, it sounded identical to me. Just need to sell my m10 and its all mine. I have everything that I need for it BUT the 70D lol. As soon as the m10 sells, its getting ordered though 8) 8) ;D
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

 

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