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Author Topic: Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully  (Read 6965 times)

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Offline Jeff F

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Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully
« on: November 11, 2015, 06:40:13 PM »
Hello all,
Not a new taper but been out of the game long enough that I'm sure technology has changed a bit.. at least slightly. heh.

My current rig is as follows:
Schoeps mk21 (NOS @ 110*) > KCY 250/5i > Sonosax SX-M2-LS/2 > Graham-Patten ADC-20 > Hosa ODL-312 > JB3 = open taping
Schoeps mk41 (NOS @ 110*) > KCY 250/2i > Sonosax SX-M2-LS/2 > JB3 = stealth taping

I'm fine with the caps but am looking for a new recorder and probably preamp as well. And I would probably need new mic cables since these cables were designed for the Lemosax connector. It would be nice to have a pre/recorder combo so long it's small enough to stealth. And would want something that can use a battery pack for when attending festivals for all-day/multi-day recording.

Can someone recommend something, reasonably priced, to get this taper back in the game and trenches?

Thanks all,
Jeff
"The mountains are calling and I must go"

Schoeps mk41/mk21 > KCY 250/5i > SX-M2-LS/2 (Lemosax) > Sony M10 (open)
Schoeps mk41/mk21 > KCY 250/2i > SX-M2-LS/2 (Lemosax) > Sony M10 (stealth)

Offline darby

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Re: Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2015, 06:46:38 PM »
buy a Sony M-10 and sell me your crappy Sonosax  ;)

Edit:
if you have had that sax for awhile, I'm fairly sure you really can't find any combo you will like
any hand held recorder today running off that sax is a fine rig for less than open taping
I'm sure you will get many different ideas than this
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 06:51:14 PM by darby »

Offline acidjack

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Re: Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2015, 07:34:22 PM »
^ agree. Keep that sax or sell it to me. Buy and M10. Dump the ADC etc.

If you want things simpler but still HQ, you could get a used Sound Devices 702 or 722 for not much more than you can get for that used Sax.

Get a KCY PFA from Naiant (music@naiant.com) for stealth.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline Jeff F

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Re: Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2015, 08:16:06 PM »
Thanks for the quick information and consensus on the Sony M-10. Looks to be reasonably priced. One thing I am wondering if this device has a digital converter or does it record well enough to not need one? I see that it doesn't have an optical in which is something I liked about the JB3. Obviously the JB3 is old and unsupported technology.

I do like my Lemosax and would have to do some troubleshooting as I have issues with my left channel. Either there is something faulty with the Lemo or one of the cable ends. I need to check things out on my end and then reach out to Nick Carbonetta or someone else who may be interested and able in fixing.

As for a new pre, the Sound Devices would be too big to sneak in for me. I know it's done but I'm used to the Lemo.
"The mountains are calling and I must go"

Schoeps mk41/mk21 > KCY 250/5i > SX-M2-LS/2 (Lemosax) > Sony M10 (open)
Schoeps mk41/mk21 > KCY 250/2i > SX-M2-LS/2 (Lemosax) > Sony M10 (stealth)

Offline tim in jersey

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Re: Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2015, 09:02:20 PM »
Another vote for holding on to the Sax.

Offline Jeff F

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Re: Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2015, 09:28:14 PM »
I guess I need to figure things out and find out what's broke and fix it. :D
"The mountains are calling and I must go"

Schoeps mk41/mk21 > KCY 250/5i > SX-M2-LS/2 (Lemosax) > Sony M10 (open)
Schoeps mk41/mk21 > KCY 250/2i > SX-M2-LS/2 (Lemosax) > Sony M10 (stealth)

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2015, 12:12:20 AM »
One thing I am wondering if this device has a digital converter or does it record well enough to not need one?

Welcome back, Jeff!  The newish portable recorders have vastly superior analog inputs and ADCs than the old recorders of past, like the JB3.  I would never have run analog-in to the JB3, but loads of people do with the M10 with mighty fine results.  There's not much need for dedicated a ADC in the signal chain, anymore...especially for stealth.

For keeping roughly the same setup, your alternatives to the Sax + cables:
  • NBox + cables.  Still available new, or used in a couple different variations (NBox, NBox+, NBox Platinum I think from oldest to most recent.)
  • Tinybox + cables.  Fat chance finding this one; made by Jon Stoppable / Naiant here on TS, they're out of production, so you'd have to luck into used one.
I don't have any direct experience with the Tinybox, unfortunately.  I prefer the Sax to the original NBox, though I think both sound mighty fine in their own way.  I don't know what's changed with the NBox+ and Platinum, but I'm sure they're also excellent options if you wanted to change things up.

Unless you want to swap out the Sax, I'd stick with Mics > Sax > M10.
Milab VM-44 Links > Fostex FR-2LE or
Naiant IPA (tinybox format) >
Roland R-05

Offline hi and lo

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Re: Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2015, 01:51:21 PM »

Unless you want to swap out the Sax, I'd stick with Mics > Sax > M10.

+t to this recommendation, this is killer setup that is dead simple to use and definitely bring you back to the hobby! You can practically fit everything in a fanny pack and will never have to deal with the JB3 or GP ever again. Just get a high-quality mini-to-mini cable and you're set. Quite literally the only annoyance is how to power the Sax... 2 x 9v batteries are usually good for any 4-5 hour or you could pick up a tekkeon that will output 18vs. Pretty trivial imo.

Offline Jhurlbs81

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Re: Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2015, 03:34:51 PM »
I love mkx>lemosax>m-10, great set up! 


Unless you want to swap out the Sax, I'd stick with Mics > Sax > M10.

+t to this recommendation, this is killer setup that is dead simple to use and definitely bring you back to the hobby! You can practically fit everything in a fanny pack and will never have to deal with the JB3 or GP ever again. Just get a high-quality mini-to-mini cable and you're set. Quite literally the only annoyance is how to power the Sax... 2 x 9v batteries are usually good for any 4-5 hour or you could pick up a tekkeon that will output 18vs. Pretty trivial imo.

Apparently, people are using 9.6v rechargeables with success.

http://www.thomasdistributing.com/MAHA-MH-C490F-9-Volt-9V-Battery-Charger-with-Three-Maha-Imedion-96V-230-mAh-Batteries-with-World-Adapter-and-12V-Cord_p_851.html

See more here.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175100.0

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Offline justink

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Re: Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2015, 07:33:18 AM »
definitely keep the sax and get a M10.

sell the muddy schweps and get some dpa fire!    :veryevil:
Mics:
DPA 4023 (Cardioid)
DPA 4028 (Subcardioid)
DPA 4018V (Supercardioid)
Earthworks TC25 (Omni) 

Pres and A/D's:
Grace Design Lunatec V3 (Oade ACM)
Edirol UA-5 (bm2p+ Mod)

Recorders:
Sound Devices MixPre10 II
Edirol R-44 (Oade CM)
Sony PCM‑M10

Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2015, 09:11:14 AM »
sell the muddy schweps and get some dpa fire!    :veryevil:

LOL.  Funny how we hear those brands exactly and completely opposite but that's how ears are... 
Gear:
Audio:
Schoeps MK4V
Nak CM-100/CM-300 w/ CP-1's or CP-4's
SP-CMC-25
>
Oade C mod R-44  OR
Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10 (formerly Roland R-05) 
Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

Offline justink

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Re: Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2015, 10:01:53 AM »
sell the muddy schweps and get some dpa fire!    :veryevil:

LOL.  Funny how we hear those brands exactly and completely opposite but that's how ears are...

nah, nothing wrong with the mk's.  i'm just poking fun.
Mics:
DPA 4023 (Cardioid)
DPA 4028 (Subcardioid)
DPA 4018V (Supercardioid)
Earthworks TC25 (Omni) 

Pres and A/D's:
Grace Design Lunatec V3 (Oade ACM)
Edirol UA-5 (bm2p+ Mod)

Recorders:
Sound Devices MixPre10 II
Edirol R-44 (Oade CM)
Sony PCM‑M10

Offline aaronji

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Re: Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2015, 10:07:28 AM »
sell the muddy schweps and get some dpa fire!    :veryevil:

LOL.  Funny how we hear those brands exactly and completely opposite but that's how ears are...

You think DPAs are muddy?  First time I have heard anyone say that; usually, it is the opposite ("clinical" seems to be a favorite adjective)...

Offline acidjack

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Re: Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2015, 10:59:03 AM »
sell the muddy schweps and get some dpa fire!    :veryevil:

LOL.  Funny how we hear those brands exactly and completely opposite but that's how ears are...

You think DPAs are muddy?  First time I have heard anyone say that; usually, it is the opposite ("clinical" seems to be a favorite adjective)...
I suppose we shouldn't derail this thread, but yes, I've always felt (having owned both) that DPAs were really, really flat and Schoeps are more "musical" (even though a frequency response chart would say both these mics are extremely flat). In my experience, when a room and the sound in it are flawless, you're possibly a slight amount better off with DPAs. For what most of us are doing (recording PA systems and otherwise not-perfect mixes of things) Schoeps tend to sound a little better, to me. But I have recordings with both that I think are basically perfect. If I were just throwing money around, I'd probably get some DPAs again.... Hmm....
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2015, 11:34:58 AM »

Unless you want to swap out the Sax, I'd stick with Mics > Sax > M10.

+t to this recommendation, this is killer setup that is dead simple to use and definitely bring you back to the hobby! You can practically fit everything in a fanny pack and will never have to deal with the JB3 or GP ever again. Just get a high-quality mini-to-mini cable and you're set. Quite literally the only annoyance is how to power the Sax... 2 x 9v batteries are usually good for any 4-5 hour or you could pick up a tekkeon that will output 18vs. Pretty trivial imo.

Ditto that, and way cheaper than changing out preamp and cables. Cost of an m10 gets you back in the game.
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