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Author Topic: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's  (Read 6947 times)

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Offline CorFit Chris

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Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« on: January 20, 2017, 02:31:47 PM »
Anyone have favorite preamp pairing with AKG 463 or 461?  I have both, well ck63's will be here in a week, and will be running both pairs together in most recordings (open).  I'll be getting active setups for both eventually using PFA's.  Soon thereafter, I will be looking towards getting a preamp to add to the mix and wonder if there is any consensus on best pairings?  Of course, I have already listened to several examples on the LMA, but all the variance in setup, location, venue, inline equipment, etc. has muddied the waters.  The Lunatec's are expensive and seldom available.  I like the price of the used mini-me's, but am also thinking along lines of Aerco mp2, SD USBpre 2.  Any thoughts?
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
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Mics: AKG 460 (ck61 & ck63) | Studio Projects C4 (cards & omni's) | CA-14 cards | SP-SPSM-9
Recorders: Tascam DR-70d  |  Tascam DR-60d  |  Tascam DR-2D
Preamp: CA Ugly
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Online Jhurlbs81

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2017, 02:48:27 PM »
I'd give it a try with your 680 by itself and see what you're missing. Good luck!

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2017, 02:49:45 PM »
I would have chimed in with V3, but you ruled that out. IMO, after 29 years with the 460's the V3 is the best sounding outboard Pre-Amp I've ever heard in conjunction with AKG sound. Some think this combo is a bit "bright", but not to my ears.
I have almost zero experience with your other two choices but have heard many recordings with the USBpre2 and it seems quality.
I think the 680 could be modded by Oade's even if you didn't buy from them?
music IS love

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Mics:         AKG461/CK8|Beyer M 201E
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline CorFit Chris

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2017, 03:05:34 PM »
I'd give it a try with your 680 by itself and see what you're missing. Good luck!

I definitely will, especially since I won't have the extra $ for a preamp for awhile.  Also, I will have the PFA setup and don't know how that will change the sound without the c460 amps.
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/orithris
Mics: AKG 460 (ck61 & ck63) | Studio Projects C4 (cards & omni's) | CA-14 cards | SP-SPSM-9
Recorders: Tascam DR-70d  |  Tascam DR-60d  |  Tascam DR-2D
Preamp: CA Ugly
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Offline CorFit Chris

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2017, 03:07:40 PM »
I would have chimed in with V3, but you ruled that out. IMO, after 29 years with the 460's the V3 is the best sounding outboard Pre-Amp I've ever heard in conjunction with AKG sound. Some think this combo is a bit "bright", but not to my ears.
I have almost zero experience with your other two choices but have heard many recordings with the USBpre2 and it seems quality.
I think the 680 could be modded by Oade's even if you didn't buy from them?

I just listened to Bean's post on LMA with ck63's and the V3.  They sound really nice together, but I don't know if I'll have the $$ to get one if/when it comes available.  They don't stay in the Yard Sale long, and I can't finance an new one. So...
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/orithris
Mics: AKG 460 (ck61 & ck63) | Studio Projects C4 (cards & omni's) | CA-14 cards | SP-SPSM-9
Recorders: Tascam DR-70d  |  Tascam DR-60d  |  Tascam DR-2D
Preamp: CA Ugly
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2017, 03:18:34 PM »
Chris, one more example for you:
https://archive.org/details/breakfast2006-07-19.akg481.flac16

Source AKG 481s (DIN FOB OTS) > Lunatec V3 @ 48kHz > Sony PCM-M1
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG461/CK8|Beyer M 201E
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline vanark

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2017, 05:43:14 PM »
I always liked the AKGs paired with  an Oade Warm mod UA-5. Sort of a dinosaur now, but still around and not too expensive if you can find one.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 05:46:11 PM by vanark »
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Offline jbell

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2017, 06:28:15 PM »
I ran ck63's for a while with a few different pres and I liked them best with an Aerco MP-2.  I didn't like them with the V3, but only my opinion.  The Aerco is under rated and a great preamp.
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Offline obaaron

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2017, 08:31:11 PM »
well if you dont have 750+ to drop on a V3 I'd look at a SD MP-2, and as mentiined above an Edirol UA5 with a Busman mod or one of the Oade mods which you can get on the real cheap these days, and also has a digital coax output to run into the dr680.

edit: And to be frank ive been running my mics right into my 680 lately and have been absolutely satisfied with he results...
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 08:35:34 PM by obaaron »
Mics:  Gefell M20,M21/sms2000/nbob | Schoeps MK4V/cmc6/nbob | AKG c460b/c480b/a60/Naiant actives - ck61,62,63,69 ;ck1,3,8;ck1x,2x,3x | AT853, AT933 | CA-11c,o
Pres: Naiant Littlebox | Tinybox | Shure FP24 | BMod Edirol UA-5 | Church ST-9200
Recorders:  Zoom F8 | Tascam DR-680 | Tascam DR-60D | Sony PCM-M10
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**ISO** -   Schoeps mk22 set, JW Mod AKG 460 bodies, AKG CK1x and 3x singles

Offline vanark

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2017, 08:58:50 PM »
As you can see, I don't have any preamps. Run straight into the 60D. Very happy with the results and one less piece of gear in my bag.
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at etree(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

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Offline darby

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2017, 09:59:44 PM »
I have ran several preamps with the 460 bodies:

SD MP-2 and Shure FP-24 (same)
Aerco MP-2
Lunatec V2 and 3
Littlebox
SD USBPre2

I feel that having a warm box like the SD Mp-2 and Aerco MP-2 works very well in a lot of situations where the sound is bright
like bluegrass and some rooms I have found the FOH runs a lot of high end

I feel that some situations though like in boomy sounding rooms, you need a cleaner box like the Lunatecs or the USBPre2 or even the Littlebox

I currently own both types of boxes and switch out for the type of music or room sound
I still think that having an external pre gives me more control of the sound of the recording and is easier to dial in the levels than running straight into a recorder
I mostly run Sony M-10s now so I obviously need an external preamp
The MiniMe is a box I've never ran, but hear it is on the warm side

Offline CorFit Chris

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2017, 08:01:26 PM »
Lots of good feedback here.  Many options to consider (coloration, size, output, price, venues, etc.).  I do like the performance of my DR 680 alone, but I want that smooth, powerful sound that I only recognize from recordings with external preamps.  After listening to lots of shows, I admit I have really taken to the V3 influence.  The Aerco shows I heard rip too, and that creates a smaller package when paired with my DR2D or DR-60.  Both are $$$, but may be worth the wait.  Not sure if the more affordable ones add much to my pulls except weight in the bag.
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/orithris
Mics: AKG 460 (ck61 & ck63) | Studio Projects C4 (cards & omni's) | CA-14 cards | SP-SPSM-9
Recorders: Tascam DR-70d  |  Tascam DR-60d  |  Tascam DR-2D
Preamp: CA Ugly
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2017, 05:12:39 PM »
Good advice above.  It really depends on your goals. 

If interested in different preamp sonic colorations and/or subtle detail and imaging differences (which are certainly audible, but relatively minor compared to the microphones, microphone setup, and position in the venue), I suggest borrowing a few different preamps to get a feel for how their inclusion in the signal chain differs from going direct into the recorder.  The exception is the DR2d which will require an external preamp in more cases.  The internal preamps of the DR-680mkii are on the "clean and mostly character-free" end of the flavor range, and most of the preamps you list are somewhat similar in flavor.   Of those listed, I imagine you'll probably hear the biggest tone-color difference using a transformer based preamp such as the Areco.

I'm satisfied going direct into the DR-680mkii, so these days I mostly reserve the V3 for when I need to leverage it's digital output to record an additional 2 channels if I already have 6 going in analog directly.

Strictly sound-wise, I do prefer using the V3, but not enough so to justify it very often except as a way to get those extra channels recorded.  That's mostly for practical reasons- it requires significant bag space itself, requires separate powering (and bag space for that), generates sometimes problematic waste heat, and requires additional interconnects which represent potential points of failure.  I have enough to deal with recording 6 channels, and the simplification of eliminating all that extra stuff trumps the sonic advantages in most situations for me.   So I mostly choose to it when I need it's phantom power or digital output (practical reasons).

I have no problem manipulating the sound afterwards, so I also prefer "clean and clear" to "warm and goeey" in the raw recording because it limits my options less.  I can make it warm and gooey after the fact, but can't easily do the reverse, if at all.  But if you are searching for a particular flavor in the raw recordings without further manipulation, an appropriate preamp can provide the most appropriate icing on that mics/setup/location layer cake.
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Offline kindms

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2017, 07:35:01 PM »
Lots of good feedback here.  Many options to consider (coloration, size, output, price, venues, etc.).  I do like the performance of my DR 680 alone, but I want that smooth, powerful sound that I only recognize from recordings with external preamps.  After listening to lots of shows, I admit I have really taken to the V3 influence.  The Aerco shows I heard rip too, and that creates a smaller package when paired with my DR2D or DR-60.  Both are $$$, but may be worth the wait.  Not sure if the more affordable ones add much to my pulls except weight in the bag.

I have run them with a UA5, DMIC20, v3, oade t-mod hdp2 and the 680 of rocksuitcases.

i loved the dmic20, v3 etc but dmic20 is a 16*bit pre/ad and the v3 + my 414s ATE batteries. but v3 was choice but for bag and battery considerations i go straight modded hdp2 now. i dont think ive given up much ditching the v3.

Given the opportunity and state of bit buckets now i might pounce on a V3 if one comes up again. just a really versatile piece of EQ
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2017, 07:36:05 PM »
Funny how peeps hear differently, I can't think of a combo I dislike more than akg cards or hypers into a v3. Thin and brittle, the same thing I thought of 4022>v3 when I owned that combo. When I had the AKGs I really really liked the SD MP2 nice and warm but very detailed. Aerco should be the same. I'd imagine an Oade warm mod 661 might do the trick as well, it's nice and warm but fairly detailed. Or an Oade warm mod FR2LE both of which can be had for 300-350.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 07:38:14 PM by MakersMarc »
Mk4v/41v>Nbob kcy x2>nbox platinum/Naiant PFA/Naiant IPA>Oade warm mod Marantz 661 x2/Sony pcm m10x3

 

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