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Author Topic: Cards, hypers, or omni's to mix with soundboard?  (Read 1974 times)

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Offline CorFit Chris

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Cards, hypers, or omni's to mix with soundboard?
« on: March 22, 2017, 12:08:56 AM »
Hypothetical... You have a 4 channel recorder, pairs of cards, hypercards, and omni's.  You are offered a soundboard patch.  What dictates which pair of mic caps (cards, hypers, omni's) you use in conjunction with the sbd patch?

Small room?
Medium room?
Large room?
etc...?
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Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Cards, hypers, or omni's to mix with soundboard?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2017, 12:24:38 AM »
Depends on the room (or if it was outside). Outside...for me 100% omni's.

Otherwise...totally depends. If it's a chatty room, hypers. If it's a nice sounding room with good patrons...I'd run cards. Really you can go on and on depending on the situation.
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Re: Cards, hypers, or omni's to mix with soundboard?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2017, 12:37:25 AM »
Depends on the room (or if it was outside). Outside...for me 100% omni's.

Otherwise...totally depends. If it's a chatty room, hypers. If it's a nice sounding room with good patrons...I'd run cards. Really you can go on and on depending on the situation.

This is funny.  After reading the hypothetical I thought about it and pretty much came up with the same thing.  Only thing I would add is if the board was at the back of the floor in an arena I would also run hypers.

Offline pohaku

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Re: Cards, hypers, or omni's to mix with soundboard?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2017, 03:33:04 AM »
I don't know that having a board feed changes what mics I would use.  I think you choose the mics like you normally would based on the room/venue and your location.  The board feed is a bonus for mixing.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Cards, hypers, or omni's to mix with soundboard?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2017, 09:43:27 AM »
Depends on the soundboard feed- how good it is, what's in it, if it has any stereo elements or is fully monophonic.. and how well I can determine all that or not when making setup decisions.

With a crappy or suspicious soundboard feed that I can't positively rely on, I'd not alter my microphone setup from what I'd do without any soundboard feed. If I knew the feed was mono I'd probably only use one channel to record the SBD, freeing the other three channels for mics since I like using 3-mic  L/C/R stereo arrays.  Or maybe a 2-mic stereo array and a mic on whatever instrument needed it most (not trusting the suspicious mono sbd feed for providing that) if I'm recording onstage, or an on-stage stereo pair plus a single cardioid facing away from the band and towards the audience/room.

If I know the SBD feed is excellent and gives me all up-front direct sound I want from the band, I can be less conservative.  At the extreme end of that I might use two channels for the SBD and the other two for a wide spaced pair of cards, one on either side of the stage facing the audience and room excluding the band as much as possible.  That provides the most isolation I could get between the direct sound and the room/audience sound, providing the most flexibility when adjusting and mixing those two elements.  Sort of a limited version of how a professional live recording is often done.

In between those extremes, I may choose a somewhat more open pickup pattern or microphone configuration than I would without any SBD.  Say cards in ORTF instead if supers in DIN-A, or keep the same mic pattern and angle and just spaced the mics wider, or whatever.  In those cases, I'm adjusting the stereo mic config to something wider and more ambient, with less of a solid and direct stereo center because the SBD being direct and center heavy provides that and the two components better complement each other that way.  Not so much wider and more ambient that whatever mic config I choose wouldn't work on its own without the SBD if turns out to be unusable for whatever reason, but rather erring more toward a mic setup that is more open rather than more direct. 

For that reason I'd be a whole lot less likely to run PAS or stack-tape if I have a SBD feed, as that would represent something of a belt & suspenders approach- doubling up on the direct PA stuff while totally neglecting the ambient live room and audience components.
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Offline achalsey

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Re: Cards, hypers, or omni's to mix with soundboard?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2017, 02:48:57 PM »
As others have said, totally situationally dependent.  If I'm running in the back, or by the board, I'd just run whatever normal set up for that room + SBD.

That said, one specific situation I really enjoy in smaller clubs is running mics onstage if possible when I definitely have a board feed.  In smaller/very small rooms, often not much is actually coming through the PA, so getting a close source of the stage amps + vocals and whatever from the board often make for a good combination.  I don't have omnis so generally run cards onstage, though have run hypers plenty of times with fine results.  I tried XY hypers for a faux blumlien type setup a few times with okay results.

 

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