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Author Topic: Korg MR-1 - question to owners  (Read 2223 times)

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Offline bulls4ever

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Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« on: May 03, 2017, 03:35:36 PM »
Just got one on ebay new on box for $120 :)  (best offer accepted)
I will be using with Roland CS-10EM binaural microphones

For those that have experience using it, what settings should I  do for normal open arenas (not very loud) and indoor night clubs (small venues) very loud ?
Will be using a battery box or preamp. Don't have one yet.

Other questions
1. Anyone figured it out battery replacement?
2. What external batteries are you guys using

Feel free to give me any hints ;)

« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 07:55:10 PM by bulls4ever »
Roland CS10EM -> Reactive Sound SPA-2 -> Korg MR-1
Sony HX20V, Nikon 1 V1, Canon: 1D, 1D IV, SL1, 5D II

Online beatkilla

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2017, 08:00:24 PM »
There used to be available a 4 aa battery caddy directly from Korg I believe.

Here is some more information

http://www.sonicstudios.com/mr-1revw.htm

Offline bulls4ever

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2017, 08:19:50 PM »
I saw that, but its also discontinued so I bet its impossible to find nowadays
Roland CS10EM -> Reactive Sound SPA-2 -> Korg MR-1
Sony HX20V, Nikon 1 V1, Canon: 1D, 1D IV, SL1, 5D II

Offline H₂O

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2017, 08:41:27 PM »
Any USB battery should work with the right cable - as long as it allows up to 2A pull - the MR-1 is finicky on battery charging (it charges when you connect an external power source or battery) and will pull up to 2A intermittently - if the battery cannot provide this power then it will stop pulling from the external source and drain the internal battery.


Someone on another forum was able to replace the battery but that was years ago and I don't know the links - I seem to think they had to harvest the connector off the old battery to make it work but I may be wrong.


I have an external pre-amp and have never used the internal ones but I have heard they can overload pretty easily. 


With an external pre you have to run at -12 db setting






 
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Offline H₂O

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2017, 09:00:02 PM »
The internal battery will last at best 1 hour 30 min - to under 2 hours.  You must use an external battery.



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Offline bulls4ever

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2017, 10:12:30 PM »
I may have to test the internal this sunday as I wont have the battery box/preamp

not even sure if the mic has enough voltage to power the roland cs-10em as it is 2-10v and I read korg PiP is 1.5v


Roland CS10EM -> Reactive Sound SPA-2 -> Korg MR-1
Sony HX20V, Nikon 1 V1, Canon: 1D, 1D IV, SL1, 5D II

Offline H₂O

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2017, 10:37:41 PM »
For it's size the Korg MR-1 is top notch - the AD sounds amazing - much better then the M10 or other similar recorders - but it is harder to deal with (limited battery, internal 30gb HDD, etc)


I love mine for small setups but when I go big I don't run it (unless I am using it for comparisons)
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Offline H₂O

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2017, 10:40:45 PM »
One other thing is the split inputs are also touchy so I have used right angle 1/8" trs to XLR cables I built and run the cables through the pleather case so they cannot pop out.  Again the MR-1 is probably on par with the Sony PCM-D100 in this form factor for sound quality (with external pre)
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Offline bulls4ever

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2017, 11:33:17 PM »
nice!
I was going to get a Roland R-05 because M10 was too expensive. Korg was also expensive but the one I wanted most due to its look: can easily pretent to be a media player. At $120 it was about the same price of Roland
but I thought the battery was 2.5h. 1.5h falls short.
saw someone that put one for sell with a 8h battery mod. So it has been done. need to find out how. that would solve one of the flaws.

there are mods for higher hdd too but cant say the size is a flaw as it is still plenty

going to have to get a splitter too as the Roland mic Is one stereo plug.
Roland CS10EM -> Reactive Sound SPA-2 -> Korg MR-1
Sony HX20V, Nikon 1 V1, Canon: 1D, 1D IV, SL1, 5D II

Offline bulls4ever

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2017, 05:07:18 PM »
I'm going to try to mod the HDD to CF. When people tested, there weren't many high end cards and if so very expensive. I think usable CF for this project was released in 2012.

Nowadays there are super fast CF cards with very good random write speeds as SanDisk Extreme Pro UDMA6 and 7 and Toshiba Exceria Pro 1066x (both higher than 1MB/s)

The Hitachi C4K60 HDD is ATA/100. That equals to 660x CF (or UDMA 5)
Hitachi random write is 0.5MB/s I think

Only a few Compact Flash cards (professional grade) have fast random write

I already have 660x high end card or faster to test. Ordered an adapter. If works, that should increase the battery live to last a concert.

Note: I think what you guys may have missed is that quality of HDD/SSD is measured on 4k writes not sequential write.
with that said, that is perhaps why Industrial (SLC) works but MLC, often, doens't. Same reason why we need those industrial USB to run WindowsToGo.

As I mentioned, now there are a few Compact Flash that are higher than 0.7Mb/s 4k writes (what it needs to write DSD).
Perhaps the way the audio is save is in small increments and thus the 4k write is more important than sequential.

Now as for the statement that SLC writing DSD doesn't prolong battery while the TLC (writing PCM) does might have something to do with using DSD rather than the CF.

Maybe some of you guys that still have the SLC cards (that worked to record DSD) can do a benchmark to check the 4k write speeds to help supporting my theory.

I can only test when I get the adapter ...
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 08:23:52 PM by bulls4ever »
Roland CS10EM -> Reactive Sound SPA-2 -> Korg MR-1
Sony HX20V, Nikon 1 V1, Canon: 1D, 1D IV, SL1, 5D II

Offline bulls4ever

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2017, 03:00:56 AM »
Some tests with a few cards I have, using Crystal Disk 100mb 5x

4k write
-------------------------------
0.93MB/s Korg MR-1 HDD
-------------------------------
2.32MB/s Toshiba Exceria Pro 1066x 64GB UDMA 7
2.03MB/s Lexar Professional 1000x 16Gb UDMA 7
1.04MB/s SanDisk Extreme 32gb 120 Mb/s UDMA 7
0.45MB/s SanDisk Ultra 4Gb 30Mb/s
0.02MB/s Maxwell maxdata 16gb 400x udma
0.01MB/s Dane-elec 2gb

From my theory, the SanDisk Ultra should be short of 24bit/96. Close to 24bit/88
The crap 4k write of the consumer CF may also explain why some cards just wont work. Doesn't matter how fast they are sequentially. Just look at the Maxwell 400x!

You can see the Korg HDD des 0.93. That is more than enough to record 1-bit (0.72)

Other cards - benchmark (from online sources)
----------------------------------------------------
2.12MB/s SanDisk Ultra 32GB 50MB/s UDMA 5
1.49MB/s SanDisk Extreme Pro 160MB/s 64GB CF
1.49MB/s SanDisk Extreme Pro 160MB/s 32GB
1.35MB/s Lexar Professional 1066x CF 32GB
1.32MB/s Transcend 1000x 128GB udma 7
1.32MB/s Lexar Professional 1066x CF 64GB
1.28MB/s Lexar Professional 1066x 128GB
1.26MB/s PixelFlash SuperSport 1000x-PRO 128GB
1.13MB/s SanDisk Extreme Pro 160MB/s 256GB
1.13MB/s Toshiba Exceria 1000x 64GB
1.11MB/s Toshiba Exceria 1000x 32GB
0.93MB/s Transcend 1000x 32GB
1.00MB/s Lexar Professional 800x 64GB CF udma 7
0.70MB/s Lexar Professional 800x CF 32GB udma 7
0.02MB/s Kingston Ultimate 600x 32GB

Sounds like any 1000x or higher should do it


As far as Power goes ...
Hitachi C4K60 uses 0.40w idle and 1.10w on load
a mSATA will use around 0.20 idle and 0.85 to 1.2w load. During recording there wont have much power saving comparing to hitachi.
CF UDMA 4 will consume around 0.25w on load, UDMA 5 and 6 are around 0.32w. UDMA 7 SLC 0.5w



« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 03:22:40 PM by bulls4ever »
Roland CS10EM -> Reactive Sound SPA-2 -> Korg MR-1
Sony HX20V, Nikon 1 V1, Canon: 1D, 1D IV, SL1, 5D II

Offline bulls4ever

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2017, 02:02:51 AM »
The internal battery will last at best 1 hour 30 min - to under 2 hours.  You must use an external battery.

at what settings?
Just did a test using 24bit/44 and intentionally using the menu a few times to emulate fixing gain and it last 2h57min (using mic with Pip)

I'm thinking on modding a power rank that has 6 batteries to removed 3 (or 4) of them and replace with a preamp. For stealth reasons, Id have a mp3 player (korg), a usb charger (preamp/charger) and in ear headphones (headphone/microphone binaural)

3 batteries would provide 9,000mAh : 3x more than internal battery. enough to charge my phone as well
http://www.ebay.com/itm/142247239419?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=441310653948&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/13000mAh-USB-Power-Bank-5x18650-Battery-Charger-DIY-Box-Case-Holder-For-Phone-/151924536756?var=&hash=item235f6875b4:m:mEcVHvTDmXOXcoRU-8g54lA

This is a bit bigger than the Korg



« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 12:45:51 PM by bulls4ever »
Roland CS10EM -> Reactive Sound SPA-2 -> Korg MR-1
Sony HX20V, Nikon 1 V1, Canon: 1D, 1D IV, SL1, 5D II

Offline bulls4ever

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2017, 09:56:03 PM »
Testing now ... 4k random (5x) Benchmark in the unit using the usb cable
Lexar 16gb | 50Mb = 1.48, 100MB = 1.43, 500Mb = 1.57, 1Gb = 0.254 (for some reason its fast only up to 500Mb writing )

Did a short 1-bit test and worked fine.

that is the same I was getting outside (100mb test) so there's no issue with the udma using the card and its able to use udma 7 fine

I am charging and will test the battery saving 1-bit and check if fails to write.
Roland CS10EM -> Reactive Sound SPA-2 -> Korg MR-1
Sony HX20V, Nikon 1 V1, Canon: 1D, 1D IV, SL1, 5D II

Offline H₂O

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2017, 10:11:50 PM »
Testing now ... 4k random (5x) Benchmark in the unit using the usb cable
Lexar 16gb | 50Mb = 1.48, 100MB = 1.43, 500Mb = 1.57, 1Gb = 0.254 (for some reason its fast only up to 500Mb writing )

Did a short 1-bit test and worked fine.

that is the same I was getting outside (100mb test) so there's no issue with the udma using the card and its able to use udma 7 fine

I am charging and will test the battery saving 1-bit and check if fails to write.


I tried the CF mod and ran into issues on 20MBps rated cards (The little slate with the number 20 on it) - this is the min rated write speed - you need a card with 65MBps slate icon.  The 20MBps card would act like it worked but some files would write and others not (no errors on the MR-1) - recording DSD - Meaning the first 22 minutes was fine the next (when the MR-1 switched files) was missing then the 3rd was there.

I never tried with higher then 20MBps as the cost went WAY up 4-5 years ago.

I would try a SanDisk Extreme Pro card or a 1066 Lexar card


The Korg algorithm for writing seams to like random writes for what ever reason.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 10:23:48 PM by H₂O »
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Offline bulls4ever

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2017, 02:42:38 AM »
So far, my theory failed.
Had issues with all cards.
Either locks after a couple of seconds or when hit stop recording.
My two cards top cards are professional level and record super fast.
So either slc is needed or the adapter is what fails.
From speed, my cf card is faster than hdd on every benchmark test.


Roland CS10EM -> Reactive Sound SPA-2 -> Korg MR-1
Sony HX20V, Nikon 1 V1, Canon: 1D, 1D IV, SL1, 5D II

Offline bulls4ever

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2017, 11:33:50 PM »
Now that my theory is broken I came up with a new theory

Most SLC cards are Fixed Disk mode. That is: they support UDMA during true IDE mode.
There is an utility to convert Sandisk Extreme to Fixed mode. May try that, but the utility is old and doesn't run on Win10.

fixed drive = IDE mode
removable drive = pcmcia mode

that might explain people's success using SLC as most, if not all, slc run on ide mode with udma support.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 12:44:36 AM by bulls4ever »
Roland CS10EM -> Reactive Sound SPA-2 -> Korg MR-1
Sony HX20V, Nikon 1 V1, Canon: 1D, 1D IV, SL1, 5D II

Offline bulls4ever

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2017, 05:01:11 PM »
Didn't get the cable on time for the U2 concert to use with battery pack.
I thought I had 3 hours so I tapped a few Mumford songs and it bite me. Battery dead at the U2 encore.

The quality of this recorder pairing with Roland binaural mic and the Reactive Sound SPA-2 is very good.

Waiting for my DIY power bank to arrive so I can mod a battery box or move the SPA-2 electronics inside there. will make a 2in1 and not to look suspicious.
Roland CS10EM -> Reactive Sound SPA-2 -> Korg MR-1
Sony HX20V, Nikon 1 V1, Canon: 1D, 1D IV, SL1, 5D II

Offline bulls4ever

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2017, 01:46:27 AM »
so I bought a few slc cheap cards to test
swissbit 16gb (2 versions) slc industrial udma4 and udma6 (fixed disk) - did not work, also crash on 2nd second
Transcend 4GB slc 300X udma5 - works!

so it is not speed or slc or fixed disk that causes most cards not to work
wondering if perhaps the card has to be fixed and udma5 to work

but definitely it is not slc/mlc that limits it
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 01:51:39 AM by bulls4ever »
Roland CS10EM -> Reactive Sound SPA-2 -> Korg MR-1
Sony HX20V, Nikon 1 V1, Canon: 1D, 1D IV, SL1, 5D II

Offline bulls4ever

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2017, 10:39:20 PM »
Kingston 16GB Ultimate  - 266x also works. it is slc

I think using Mic/PiP will cause recorder to stop responding. My test using Line In with preamp seems to be working. Need to test with other non SLC card that had the same issue. I was testing using Mic/Pip before
Roland CS10EM -> Reactive Sound SPA-2 -> Korg MR-1
Sony HX20V, Nikon 1 V1, Canon: 1D, 1D IV, SL1, 5D II

Offline jb63

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2017, 06:46:25 PM »
Somewhere I bookmarked the (different audio) board where all the early/middle MR1 users were posting trying this. I'll look for them when I get home. They had a lot of interesting info that they uncovered some good dirt. I never had any problem with the size of the hard disc or that it wasn't an SSD. It was really just battery time. So the real thing that time could change is if there were a way to upgrade the internal battery to tape DSD or 24/96 (or even 24/48) on an initial charge for 6 hours or so.

This was my favorite design for a recorder, and I'm happy to see it get some love. I have 3, all in need of a new battery or a cleaning so that the sprocket selector works and one where the tip of the charging plug is stuck inside.

They are so small that you could really just take 2 and swap out recorders halfway through!
this is definitely not normal

Offline jb63

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Re: Korg MR-1 - question to owners
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2017, 05:46:53 PM »
this is definitely not normal

 

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