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Author Topic: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6  (Read 111979 times)

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Offline johnw

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #330 on: June 15, 2017, 11:46:48 AM »
I'm wondering that if turning off the mix tracks but having channel on advanced is somehow causing the low gain problem? Personally I want the mix+4 iso tracks so not a big deal to me.

I haven't tested this yet since I assume I can just record the mix track and then scrap it later if I don't want it (don't think I will).  But from reading the posts, I thought it was the opposite:  there currently is a bug causing low gain when no LR mix track is recorded and when you select basic mode or select basic gain in custom mode.  I thought the gain was fine if you recorded no LR mix track and used Advanced mode.  Could be wrong though, I'll try to test it when I get a chance.

Yes that's my understanding of the bug exactly. It occurs when gain is basic and no mix track is recorded. I am talking about having the channel on advanced in custom mode though. In the video, he shows his settings in custom where he has channel basic, gain as basic, headphones basic, record advanced, metadata basic and outputs basic. This is around 1:10 in the video.
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Offline Craig T

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #331 on: June 15, 2017, 12:06:06 PM »
Set the MP6 at a very, very conservative amount of gain before the show starts and never change levels again.  Or set the MP6 to advanced mode with very, very conservative pre-fade gain and use the front faders to make a LR post-fade recording if it makes you feel more comfortable.  I'd bet for many people once they get used to the new way of doing things would just archive the LR mix recording and would use the ISO tracks with the very low levels for mastering and final distribution.

My thoughts exactly.  This is what I will be doing if I get one of these recorders.  It's hard for folks that have been recording for a long time, especially if you started with noisy analog gear, to get over the urge to push levels close to -12, -6 or 0dbFS.
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Offline Todd R

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #332 on: June 15, 2017, 12:08:57 PM »
As a addendum to my post above about gain, you can just get a feel for things with experience, but knowing the specs of your gear and some general understanding of sound pressure can help a lot.

For example, Gefell m200 cardiods have a mic sensitivity of 12mv/Pa, or about -36dbu.  The Mixpre-6 can accept a mic signal of +14dbu without leading to clipping (going over 0dbFS) the A/D.  A Pascal (Pa) is a sound pressure of 94db.  If I conservatively assume a concert will get to 130db (36db above 1 Pascal), my mics will put out 0dbu (130-94+ (-36)).  If I add 12db of gain before the show, I can still have 2db of headroom even if the concert gets to 130db.  If the concert only hits a max SPL of 100db, my recording levels will be at -32dbFS, based on +14dbu max input on the MP6.  That is, -36dbu for the mic sensitvity at 1 Pa (94 db), plus 6db for going to 100db (above the 94db reference), plus the 12db of gain I set, leading to a total of -18dbu going to the A/D stage, which needs +14dbu to get to 0dbFS.  So my peaks are at -32dbFS.

Which seems low, but given the wide dynamic range of the MP6 and the very low noise at -130dbV, the noise of the concert environment is much higher than the internal noise of the recorder, so I can boost 32db in post and everything will be great.

Plus if you really want more insurance after giving yourself plenty of expected headroom, you can set up the limiters of the Mixpre-6, which are supposed to be excellent.  Though if you need the limiters since the concert was louder than 130db, you won't be able to hear anything anyway.

Edit:  I'm making some quick assumptions above between the max mic input and how that relates to the max input level to the A/D on the MP6.  The mic input has a minimum gain of 6db and the max mic input of +14dbu may take that into account, so the max input to the A/D stage may be +20dbu, which would make my calcs above off by 6db, so that 12db of gain at a 100db SPL would lead to -38dbFS peaks on the recording.  Still plenty high enough to insure you get adequate levels.  Realistically, I will probably set my gain at 18db and will engage the limiters for extra safety.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 12:30:27 PM by Todd R »
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline johnw

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #333 on: June 15, 2017, 12:10:10 PM »
I generally don't adjust levels once I hit record. I usually use 20dB gain for louder shows and 30db for quiet shows. I do want linking as I'd prefer to balance my channels during recording because I have noticed that my channels are often 2-3dB apart. Probably time to send the caps into Schoeps...

I'd be ok using gain in advanced mode and not controlling with the front knobs so long as there is enough to show that the levels are moving during recording (flashing green knobs). I may save something like this as preset #2
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Offline gewwang

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #334 on: June 15, 2017, 12:19:17 PM »
I haven't taped any shows yet, but just taping with the mixpre-3 side by side with my tascam dr100mkIII, it's unbelievable how quiet the mixpre preamps are and how much dynamic range they put out.

Offline aaronji

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #335 on: June 15, 2017, 12:22:31 PM »
^^^ The other advantage to doing it in the way Todd R is suggesting is that you don't need to worry about bumping the channel knobs.  If you can keep yourself from accidentally stopping the recording, you'll be OK.  You can balance the channels in advance, too, by setting the gains to account for the difference between mics.

Offline hipporu

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #336 on: June 15, 2017, 01:36:47 PM »
I got my MP-6. Really a small toy!

Quick battery test:
Fully charged four AA eneloop pro 2500 mAh
Card sandisk 32 extreme pro 95MB/s FAT32
Four Line Audio phantom microphones
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-M9vh-K8KZmVTExRTBjMGoxQVk
Total 130 minutes Recording.
Every 42 minutes the recorder starts a new file.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-M9vh-K8KZmdlpiQVNPLVJTaEU
The last 8 minutes the battery blinks orange, then turn off automatically.
The last file is played, but shows it is corrupt.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-M9vh-K8KZmRmF3OElnMkU3RXM

I set the recorder in the "iso mode" (as was written above) and saved it as a preset, which would not repeat the confusing procedure every time.
You can take this preset, place it in the settings folder on the card, load it when the recorder is started, change other settings if necessary.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-M9vh-K8KZmNEgyOHRXZjhPUkE

The recording was together with the mix, I did not pay attention to сlipping on the L and R channels, Just do not use the L and R tracks in the post.
It's not very convenient, but as it is.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-M9vh-K8KZmZmpBQ2hCbld3VFE
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Offline edtyre

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #337 on: June 15, 2017, 03:26:50 PM »
Nbox vs MixPre 3  size comp
my new stealth rig (maybe) all depends on how it sounds :-)



music>mics>pre>recorder

Offline johnw

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #338 on: June 15, 2017, 06:26:06 PM »
Has anyone tried using this going USB A out>lightning cable>ipad?

I was not aware this was even an option until I saw this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF3VbAQqgS8

Not familiar with Auria but this seems like another cool option
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Offline rippleish20

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #339 on: June 15, 2017, 07:36:40 PM »
Has anyone tried using this going USB A out>lightning cable>ipad?

I was not aware this was even an option until I saw this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF3VbAQqgS8

Not familiar with Auria but this seems like another cool option
I stream shows and have traditionally used F8 -> A/D device -> iPad. I attempted to use USB-c -> iPad on my second outing with the Mixpre-6 but got a "device requires to much power error", even though I had the Mixpre USB-c output set to audio only. I was going to keep attempting to get this work but had no idea the USB-a port would work. IOS uses a system wide set of audio drivers/software so id this auria works any audio app should
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #340 on: June 15, 2017, 09:23:59 PM »

The last 8 minutes the battery blinks orange, then turn off automatically.
The last file is played, but shows it is corrupt.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-M9vh-K8KZmRmF3OElnMkU3RXM



I read somewhere, perhaps at jwsoundgroup.net, that if your MP6 battery dies in the middle of a recording, you can save that file by immediately turning the unit back on with a fresh power source.

I tried it on my recent battery test and it worked. After the AA batteries ran out, I plugged in my USB-C power source and turned the MP6 back on. I did some more recording and after turning off the MP6, I removed the SD card and played the files on my computer. The recording that was interrupted is fine.
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Offline Paul Isaacs

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #341 on: June 15, 2017, 11:07:21 PM »
 If you run out of power mid-recording and then you boot up with the card inserted, the MixPre will repair/finalize the file properly so that is can play in its entirety anywhere. The next firmware will not require you to boot up with the card inserted - there will be no corruption or loss of data, period.

The MixPre should work with any OS that uses Core Audio drivers.

Paul

Offline hipporu

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #342 on: June 16, 2017, 03:51:31 AM »
It is understood.
Paul Isaacs, thank you that you are with us!
dogmusic thank you!
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #343 on: June 16, 2017, 06:16:44 AM »
Four Line Audio phantom microphones

Which Line Audio mics were you using (I am interested in the current draw, which differs between the OM1 and CM3)?

Offline hipporu

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #344 on: June 16, 2017, 06:46:30 AM »
Which Line Audio mics were you using (I am interested in the current draw, which differs between the OM1 and CM3)?
I have both.
CM3 as ORTF (110 angles, 21cm) and OM1 as outrigger, usually. Sometimes CM3 as ORTF only. 
Start with CM3, satisfies in most cases. As a result, I sold my Rode.
Line Audio and Sound Devices sound fantastic for me )
Big topic is on https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/644759-cm3-really-good.html
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