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Author Topic: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)  (Read 8694 times)

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Offline rippleish20

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2017, 01:48:49 PM »

I tried one of the cables that he highly recommended , with the resistor , and it doesn't work.

Which cable didn't work?

I'm probably ordering this one:

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01A6F3WHG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AREE309N4XPXI&psc=1

It's an Anker cable so I figure it should have a good chance of working.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010VFFU1W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1


The google engineers eview says it is complaint and

"On the technical side, this cable conforms to the USB Type C Specification version 1.1, meaning that it correctly identifies to the Type-C device that it is a legacy USB cable using a 56k' pullup to Vbus. For charging, this means that this supports BC 1.2 charging speeds, up to a maximum current of 2.4A at 5V."

You would think thus cabe would work


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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2017, 01:52:20 PM »

I tried one of the cables that he highly recommended , with the resistor , and it doesn't work.

Which cable didn't work?

I'm probably ordering this one:

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01A6F3WHG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AREE309N4XPXI&psc=1

It's an Anker cable so I figure it should have a good chance of working.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010VFFU1W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1


The google engineers eview says it is complaint and

"On the technical side, this cable conforms to the USB Type C Specification version 1.1, meaning that it correctly identifies to the Type-C device that it is a legacy USB cable using a 56k' pullup to Vbus. For charging, this means that this supports BC 1.2 charging speeds, up to a maximum current of 2.4A at 5V."

You would think thus cabe would work

Which USB battery did you try?
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Offline johnw

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2017, 02:30:08 PM »

I tried one of the cables that he highly recommended , with the resistor , and it doesn't work.

Which cable didn't work?

I'm probably ordering this one:

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01A6F3WHG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AREE309N4XPXI&psc=1

It's an Anker cable so I figure it should have a good chance of working.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010VFFU1W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1


The google engineers eview says it is complaint and

"On the technical side, this cable conforms to the USB Type C Specification version 1.1, meaning that it correctly identifies to the Type-C device that it is a legacy USB cable using a 56k' pullup to Vbus. For charging, this means that this supports BC 1.2 charging speeds, up to a maximum current of 2.4A at 5V."

You would think thus cabe would work

If you are trying to provide 4 channels of phantom power or just have the power light stay green, No, I don't believe it would work - it needs to have a maximum of 3A at 5V to work based on what Paul posted. The device needs 15W over USB C. The only cable that can support this is a USB C to USB C cable.

Again, Sound Devices has already posted a document on what they recommend and there is a recommended battery on this document:

Here's the list with an approved USB battery
https://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/mixpre-3-mixpre-6-powering-options

And here's the battery
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014ZO46LK/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&sr=1-10&tag=ianker-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399373&creativeASIN=B014ZO46LK&keywords=battery+charge&qid=1496527076&kwr_id=179

Buy that battery and an approved USB C to USB C cable. Here's the cheapest option that is proven safe (on Benson's list)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01GGKYZQM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Otherwise use the 2x USB A to USB C Y cable that comes with the unit and plug both the USB A ends into a battery

There are no right angle USB C to USB C cables that are proven to be safe. None of the USB A to USB C cables (including the right angle ones) will provide enough power to keep the light green if they are built to the appropriate standard. If they seem to be working, they are not performing according to specification and may ultimately cause damage.

This is one of the few C to C cable that is at an angle but it hasn't been tested and there are no reviews. It also goes to the side and will block the XLRs or run out the front of the Mix Pre. I am going to pass until I see it has been tested.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N41JUI4/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A21TE5CLHZDYA7

I personally would not risk a $7-900 brand new device by using an untested cable or one that is not built within spec. I also would not advise trying to save a few dollars on an untested or faulty power supply.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 02:50:34 PM by johnw »
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Offline rippleish20

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2017, 02:58:58 PM »


If you are trying to provide 4 channels of phantom power or just have the power light stay green, No, I don't believe it would work - it needs to have a maximum of 3A at 5V to work based on what Paul posted. The device needs 15W over USB C. The only cable that can support this is a USB C to USB C cable.

Again, Sound Devices has already posted a document on what they recommend and there is a recommended battery on this document:

Here's the list with an approved USB battery
https://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/mixpre-3-mixpre-6-powering-options

And here's the battery
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014ZO46LK/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&sr=1-10&tag=ianker-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399373&creativeASIN=B014ZO46LK&keywords=battery+charge&qid=1496527076&kwr_id=179

Buy that battery and an approved USB C to USB C cable. Here's the cheapest option that is proven safe (on Benson's list)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01GGKYZQM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Otherwise use the 2x USB A to USB C Y cable that comes with the unit and plug both the USB A ends into a battery

There are no right angle USB C to USB C cables that are proven to be safe. None of the USB A to USB C cables (including the right angle ones) will provide enough power to keep the light green if they are built to the appropriate standard. If they seem to be working, they are not performing according to specification and may ultimately cause damage.

This is one of the few C to C cable that is at an angle but it hasn't been tested and there are no reviews. It also goes to the side and will block the XLRs or run out the front of the Mix Pre. I am going to pass until I see it has been tested.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N41JUI4/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A21TE5CLHZDYA7

I personally would not risk a $7-900 brand new device by using an untested cable or one that is not built within spec. I also would not advise trying to save a few dollars on an untested or faulty power supply.

Thats why I am going with a USB-c solution.  My questions about USB-a to USB-c cables are because to I am interested in knowing why the cable wont work. If the mixpre requires a minimum of 15 watts that explains it.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 03:04:54 PM by rippleish20 »
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Offline sos

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2017, 03:14:01 PM »
As far as Ankers go, I'd assume this bundle would work, as well? Includes charger and USB-C > USB-C cable...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZ61PRW/ref=psdc_7073960011_t2_B01K6TA748
« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 03:04:52 PM by sos »
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Offline johnw

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2017, 03:29:21 PM »
As far as Ankers go, I'd assume this bundle would work, as well? Includes charger and USB-C to USB-C cable...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZ61PRW/ref=psdc_7073960011_t2_B01K6TA748

Yes I believe that should work. Pretty good deal as the cables and charger are worth $35-40.
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2017, 03:37:36 PM »
This is from the "Sound Devices - MixPre-3 & MixPre-6 Powering Options" page:

"To fully power the MixPre-3 or MixPre-6 from a USB power source not listed above, you will need BOTH of the following:
1. USB-C power source that is compliant with the USB powering specification and is able to output 7.5W
2. USB-C cable that incorporates the correct pull-up resistors to identify itself as able to provide 7.5W

NOTE: A USB-A power source used in conjunction with a USB-A to USB-C cable cannot deliver the required 7.5W for full power operation."

I can't find where Sound Devices posted the requirement of 15W.
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Offline johnw

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2017, 05:03:40 PM »
My apologies as I do appear to be mistaken about the power wattage requirement. Not sure why SD would say that a USBA to USB C could not deliver 7.5W assuming 2.4A output. I have a few of these chargers made by apple that provide 12W...

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD836LL/A/apple-12w-usb-power-adapter

Given people's experience with the orange light on the Mix Pre when powering over a USB A cable, I would have to assume that the 7.5W is a typo and it is indeed trying to draw more current than 2.4A. Alternatively, the batteries aren't providing more than 1.2A but that seems less likely
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Offline rippleish20

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2017, 08:21:53 PM »
It looks like the "default" amperage for USB 3.1 is .9 amps. A complaint USB-c to USB-a cable is supposed to use a 56 kΩ resistor, limiting it to .9 amps. A USB-c to USB-c cable uses a 10 kΩ resistor, which allows for up to 3 amps. I would assume the cables that have been found to work by Ted either dont have resistors or have a 22 kΩ, allowing for 1.5amps, which is presumably the minimum needed for the mixpre.


http://www.cypress.com/knowledge-base-article/termination-resistors-required-usb-type-c-connector-kba97180

https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/cable-and-adapter-tips-and-tricks

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/115251-how-usb-charging-works-or-how-to-avoid-blowing-up-your-smartphone



https://www.amazon.com/Manhattan-353298-USB-CABLE-C-M/product-reviews/B015MGH0RM


  Manhattan USB Type-C cable is not spec compliant. May cause damage to charger, hub or PC USB ports.
ByBenson Leung

Manhattan USB Type-C cable is not spec compliant. May cause damage to charger, hub or PC USB ports.
ByBenson LeungTOP 100 REVIEWERon February 29, 2016

Benson again continuing my reviews of USB Type-C legacy cables. This time, I'm reviewing Manhattan's "353298 MH USB C CABLE C-M TO A-M"

This cable does not correctly follow the USB Type C specification Release 1.1. To find the specification, please go to usb.org, and look under developers/usbtypec.

Specifically, using this charging cable, the Chromebook Pixel will attempt to draw 1.5A of current over the cable, potentially damaging the USB hub or charger on the A side, which is not guaranteed to be rated at 1.5A.

Please see Section 4.11 of the Type-C specification and the following note :

1. For Rp when implemented in the USB Type-C plug on a USB Type-C to USB 3.1 Standard-A Cable
Assembly, a USB Type-C to USB 2.0 Standard-A Cable Assembly, a USB Type-C to USB 2.0 Micro-B
Receptacle Adapter Assembly or a USB Type-C captive cable connected to a USB host, a value of 56 kΩ
± 5% shall be used, in order to provide tolerance to IR drop on V BUS and GND in the cable assembly.

In other words, since you are creating a USB Type-C plug to a USB 2.0 Type-A Plug assembly, you must use a resistor of value 56kΩ as a pull-up on CC (configuration channel). According to my testing, your cable uses a 22kΩ pull-up, which is not legal when the other end of the cable or adapter is a legacy Type-A or Type-B connector or receptacle.


« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 08:25:28 PM by rippleish20 »
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Offline rippleish20

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2017, 08:48:31 PM »
I bought one of these and it works with no issues. Its very thin and very simikar in size to the mixpre itself

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16240

I bought one of their USB-c to USB-c cables as well as the Amazon one and both work as expected with the battery. The Monoprice cable is thicker an stiffer. The Amazon one seems perfect for use with the Mixpre as its supple and fits tightly and give me less of a "this is going to damage the port" feeling than with the other cable, especially the one that comes with the Mixpre
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2017, 09:01:38 PM »
I bought one of these and it works with no issues. Its very thin and very simikar in size to the mixpre itself

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16240

I bought one of their USB-c to USB-c cables as well as the Amazon one and both work as expected with the battery. The Monoprice cable is thicker an stiffer. The Amazon one seems perfect for use with the Mixpre as its supple and fits tightly and give me less of a "this is going to damage the port" feeling than with the other cable, especially the one that comes with the Mixpre
i like the cost and size of this battery vs others so far

They have a 6" cable which might be nice for a gear bag
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 09:05:40 PM by willndmb »
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Offline rippleish20

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2017, 09:28:03 PM »
I bought one of these and it works with no issues. Its very thin and very simikar in size to the mixpre itself

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16240

I bought one of their USB-c to USB-c cables as well as the Amazon one and both work as expected with the battery. The Monoprice cable is thicker an stiffer. The Amazon one seems perfect for use with the Mixpre as its supple and fits tightly and give me less of a "this is going to damage the port" feeling than with the other cable, especially the one that comes with the Mixpre
i like the cost and size of this battery vs others so far

They have a 6" cable which might be nice for a gear bag

The one I bought is 1.5 feet.

The battery form factor appeals to me

MK41v's / MK4v's / MK4's / AKG C480Bs+ck61, ck63 / Telefunken FET M60 Cards and Hypers / AT853s
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2017, 09:49:58 PM »
I bought one of these and it works with no issues. Its very thin and very simikar in size to the mixpre itself

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16240

I bought one of their USB-c to USB-c cables as well as the Amazon one and both work as expected with the battery. The Monoprice cable is thicker an stiffer. The Amazon one seems perfect for use with the Mixpre as its supple and fits tightly and give me less of a "this is going to damage the port" feeling than with the other cable, especially the one that comes with the Mixpre
i like the cost and size of this battery vs others so far

They have a 6" cable which might be nice for a gear bag

The one I bought is 1.5 feet.

The battery form factor appeals to me
yeah that's nice. For me I would have the mp6 sitting on top of the battery and then stand them up in my bag, perfect fit it looks like
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2017, 10:50:43 PM »
My conclusion is the best route is to use a battery equipped with USB-c output and a USB-c to USB-c cable. The optional AC power supply delivers 5v @ 3Amps (15 watts), which is what the USB-c Anker battery they suggest outputs. This probably is what the unit would like to see.


I bought one of these for testing

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16240

Output 2: USB-C 5V/3A



SD says the unit need 7.5 watts 5v x 1.5 amps) - this is probably the minimum needed.

The limiting factor with using a USB-c to USB-A cable and  USB-A centric battery appears to me to be the cable. These cables must be limiting amperage to .9 - 1 amp. I was also under the impression USB batteries could output 2.1-2.4 but only some cables will actually pass this through. The dual USB-a cable gets around this by doubling the amperage. I ran tonight with both USB-a end connected to the same battery and did not get warnings and have a full green plug.

Ted found two USB-C to USB-A cables that work with his current batteries. These must pass through the full amperage.  As far as I an tell this goes against the safety precautions that should be a USB-A to USB-c cable but these cables also have downwards USB-c connectors and are very appealing fro ma cable point of view

Bingo! The problem here is PROBABLY the cables being used. I know that MP3/6 comes with a Dual USB A>USB C cable, but I still think the proper USB A>C cable will power the MP6 just fine! And if the Powercore 20,000mah battery can pump out 2.4A per port, and you're using the SD Dual USB A>C cable, then it SHOULD be giving the MP6 4.8A from BOTH USB ports, not just 2.4A total from BOTH ports ;) So I don't see why a single USB C>C cable would give a higher output than 4.8A using the Dual USB A>C cable ??? Even if your battery/charger is outputting 3A, if the cable can't handle speeds that fast, then the nicer battery will have zero effect. But what I can't understand is that if the MP6 needs 3A, why can't the included Dual USB A>C Cable provide enough juice @4.8A with both USB ports?

I JUST went through the process of giving away ALL of my old USB cables and doing LOTS of USB cable research, and bought ALL new Anker stuff recently [including their Powerline USB cables & Powerport chargers], and I couldn't be any happier! I'll def be buying an Anker 20,000mah Powercore AND Powercore+ to see if its really the battery, or the cables :) I can't recommend Anker stuff ANY more!
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 11:03:39 PM by F.O.Bean »
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