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Author Topic: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)  (Read 8709 times)

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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2017, 11:01:15 PM »

I tried one of the cables that he highly recommended , with the resistor , and it doesn't work.

Which cable didn't work?

I'm probably ordering this one:

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01A6F3WHG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AREE309N4XPXI&psc=1

It's an Anker cable so I figure it should have a good chance of working.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010VFFU1W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1


The google engineers eview says it is complaint and

"On the technical side, this cable conforms to the USB Type C Specification version 1.1, meaning that it correctly identifies to the Type-C device that it is a legacy USB cable using a 56k' pullup to Vbus. For charging, this means that this supports BC 1.2 charging speeds, up to a maximum current of 2.4A at 5V."

You would think thus cabe would work

If you are trying to provide 4 channels of phantom power or just have the power light stay green, No, I don't believe it would work - it needs to have a maximum of 3A at 5V to work based on what Paul posted. The device needs 15W over USB C. The only cable that can support this is a USB C to USB C cable.

Again, Sound Devices has already posted a document on what they recommend and there is a recommended battery on this document:

Here's the list with an approved USB battery
https://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/mixpre-3-mixpre-6-powering-options

And here's the battery
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014ZO46LK/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&sr=1-10&tag=ianker-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399373&creativeASIN=B014ZO46LK&keywords=battery+charge&qid=1496527076&kwr_id=179

Buy that battery and an approved USB C to USB C cable. Here's the cheapest option that is proven safe (on Benson's list)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01GGKYZQM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Otherwise use the 2x USB A to USB C Y cable that comes with the unit and plug both the USB A ends into a battery

There are no right angle USB C to USB C cables that are proven to be safe. None of the USB A to USB C cables (including the right angle ones) will provide enough power to keep the light green if they are built to the appropriate standard. If they seem to be working, they are not performing according to specification and may ultimately cause damage.

This is one of the few C to C cable that is at an angle but it hasn't been tested and there are no reviews. It also goes to the side and will block the XLRs or run out the front of the Mix Pre. I am going to pass until I see it has been tested.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N41JUI4/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A21TE5CLHZDYA7

I personally would not risk a $7-900 brand new device by using an untested cable or one that is not built within spec. I also would not advise trying to save a few dollars on an untested or faulty power supply.

Well said brotha! I already decided I wanted to buy Anker USB Batteries and Chargers & Cables from NOW ON, so I'm probably going to give the Powercore+ a try first! With the included USB C>C Cable and the A & C Outputs, for $65/Shipped, seems like a great deal to me and a great way to make sure your device is being properly powered from a RELIABLE company ;) No reason to risk a $900 deck with a $1.50 cable :)
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2017, 11:53:51 PM »
Also, I just did some research on the different Anker batteries! Here's what I found out! I obviously HAVEN'T used a MixPre3/6 yet, but after reading this thread and NUMEROUS different cables and batteries for my MP6, here's my conclusions and opinions!

The Anker batteries ALL differ in their output! They make quite a few different models that output 3A@MAX, but unfortunately the Powercore 20,100 you bought, only supplies 2.4A/per port :( If you'd have gotten the Powercore 26,800 or a few of their smaller sizes that output 3A, then I'd bet the farm that you'd be FINE with a SINGLE Anker USB A>C cable from the 3A port on that battery! They make a bunch of different batteries, and only a handful of them have USB A ports that can output 3A. So that said, I will DEFINITELY be buying the Anker batteries that can output 3A@MAX, so that they can RELIABLY supply enough power to my MP6 using a single USB A>C or USB C>C cable! As always, I'll keep yinz updated on all of this once I get my MP6 in hand and try out all of the different cables that I got for it :)

I'll be buying an Anker USB battery with a 3A@MAX USB A output here soon to test it out with the MP6 and my Anker Powerline USB cables and Adapters! Damn, that's a lot of typing USB :P And I also plan on buying the 8xAA Battery tray for my MP6! I don't like how cumbersome and how much bigger the L-Mount Battery Tray is, so I'll be avoiding the L-Series batteries for right now! But I like the extra height that the 8xAA Battery Tray gives the MP6, since it's so damn small ;D
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Offline Vunz

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2017, 04:05:47 AM »
I use the Anker Powercore+ with my mp6, and works perfectly. The battery comes with a usb-c to usb-c cable, as well as a usb-c to usb-a cable (which can be used to charge the battery). A usb-a to micro usbcable is also included.

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2017, 06:43:49 AM »
I use the Anker Powercore+ with my mp6, and works perfectly. The battery comes with a usb-c to usb-c cable, as well as a usb-c to usb-a cable (which can be used to charge the battery). A usb-a to micro usbcable is also included.

^
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Offline johnw

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2017, 07:58:50 AM »
Also, I just did some research on the different Anker batteries! Here's what I found out! I obviously HAVEN'T used a MixPre3/6 yet, but after reading this thread and NUMEROUS different cables and batteries for my MP6, here's my conclusions and opinions!

The Anker batteries ALL differ in their output! They make quite a few different models that output 3A@MAX, but unfortunately the Powercore 20,100 you bought, only supplies 2.4A/per port :( If you'd have gotten the Powercore 26,800 or a few of their smaller sizes that output 3A, then I'd bet the farm that you'd be FINE with a SINGLE Anker USB A>C cable from the 3A port on that battery! They make a bunch of different batteries, and only a handful of them have USB A ports that can output 3A. So that said, I will DEFINITELY be buying the Anker batteries that can output 3A@MAX, so that they can RELIABLY supply enough power to my MP6 using a single USB A>C or USB C>C cable! As always, I'll keep yinz updated on all of this once I get my MP6 in hand and try out all of the different cables that I got for it :)

I'll be buying an Anker USB battery with a 3A@MAX USB A output here soon to test it out with the MP6 and my Anker Powerline USB cables and Adapters! Damn, that's a lot of typing USB :P And I also plan on buying the 8xAA Battery tray for my MP6! I don't like how cumbersome and how much bigger the L-Mount Battery Tray is, so I'll be avoiding the L-Series batteries for right now! But I like the extra height that the 8xAA Battery Tray gives the MP6, since it's so damn small ;D

I would suggest contacting Sound Devices before buying a battery. According to Paul Isaacs and the manual, a properly designed USB A to C cable won't provide enough power for phantom on all 4 channels. If such a cable is providing enough power, it isn't designed to spec and may damage the Mix Pre or battery. I don't understand why a properly designed cable won't provide the required 7.5 W as I believe it should pass 1.5A at 5V with the proper pull down resistor selected. If someone here has the 26800 and it powers a Mix Pre 6 with including USB A to C (that is within spec), I'd love to hear about it. But unless Sound Devices says it will work, or someone else proves it works (again with a certified cable), I wouldn't buy that battery as it doesn't have a USB C 3A output.

If it helps, I will post a picture of the size of the USB A to C right angle cable I have vs the straight USB C to C. There isn't much difference.

Also, would it be worth moving this thread to the Remote power section?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 08:43:20 AM by johnw »
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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2017, 09:03:24 AM »
Seems like the L sleds are the way to go.  The USB option seems like more trouble than it's worth.

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2017, 09:18:37 AM »

I would suggest contacting Sound Devices before buying a battery.

I've tried that. They won't comment on or approve any battery they haven't tested (understandably). And the only one they appear to have tested is the one they recommend.
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Offline rippleish20

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2017, 09:40:42 AM »
Ugh. Read what I posted earlier in this thread:

1. According to Spec, a USB-A to USB-C cable is limited to providing .9 amps. Yes some cables allow for more the .9 amos but they are violating the spec. This is why they provide the y cable 2 x .9 = 1.8 amps. A USB-c to USB-c cable , however, can allow through up to 3amps according to spec. These cables use a different resistor.

2. The fact that your USB-A battery can output 2.4 amps or whatever is not important as the cable can only allow through .9 amps if it meets spec!
   
   The SD tech note on battery options says NO USB-c to USB-a single cable will work. Paul says using such a cable that happens to work is at your own risk because it violates the spec!

   Yes, a USB-c to USB-a cable with the right resistor would pass through 1.5 amps but the spec says these USB-c to USB-a cables need to use the 56 ohm resistor which limits it to .9 amps. My earlier post includes a comment from a amazon review by the google engineer who has been testing cables to see if they follow spec and is about that exact scenario - where a cable has a resistor which will allow 1.5 amps through and the engineer explains that this breaks spec

3. Any USB-c battery which outputs up to 3amps should be ok. The anker is fine but if you want something less expense the monprice is fine. The Amazon USB0c to USB-c cable has the resistors and is to spec, which limits it to 3amps anyways.

4. The powercore 20100 is not the same as the powercore 20100+ - the + has USB-c output and can output 3amps
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 09:54:00 AM by rippleish20 »
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2017, 10:36:55 AM »
Is there any real "danger" of using a cable that passes more power then it is supposed to be spec at?
I mean if your battery outs 2.4 and the mp6 is looking for 3, what's the potential issues??
I could see if the mp6 was looking for 3 and your battery was sending sayyyyy 7
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Offline johnw

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2017, 10:39:44 AM »
Ugh. Read what I posted earlier in this thread:

1. According to Spec, a USB-A to USB-C cable is limited to providing .9 amps. Yes some cables allow for more the .9 amos but they are violating the spec. This is why they provide the y cable 2 x .9 = 1.8 amps. A USB-c to USB-c cable , however, can allow through up to 3amps according to spec. These cables use a different resistor.

2. The fact that your USB-A battery can output 2.4 amps or whatever is not important as the cable can only allow through .9 amps if it meets spec!
   
   The SD tech note on battery options says NO USB-c to USB-a single cable will work. Paul says using such a cable that happens to work is at your own risk because it violates the spec!

   Yes, a USB-c to USB-a cable with the right resistor would pass through 1.5 amps but the spec says these USB-c to USB-a cables need to use the 56 ohm resistor which limits it to .9 amps. My earlier post includes a comment from a amazon review by the google engineer who has been testing cables to see if they follow spec and is about that exact scenario - where a cable has a resistor which will allow 1.5 amps through and the engineer explains that this breaks spec

3. Any USB-c battery which outputs up to 3amps should be ok. The anker is fine but if you want something less expense the monprice is fine. The Amazon USB0c to USB-c cable has the resistors and is to spec, which limits it to 3amps anyways.

4. The powercore 20100 is not the same as the powercore 20100+ - the + has USB-c output and can output 3amps

Thank you. This is a very succinct/clear summary of what I feel is a complex and confusing problem.

If someone wanted a higher capacity battery, I believe the $99 Power Core+ 26800 would work just as well as the 20100+ as both have USB C 3A outputs.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZ61PRW/ref=psdc_7073960011_t2_B01K6TA748

Note that this is a different battery than the below $69 Power Core + 26800 which DOES NOT have a USB C output but claims to have 3A outputs (over USB A connection)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K6TA748/ref=psdc_7073960011_t1_B01MZ61PRW

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Offline Gordon

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2017, 10:41:43 AM »
Bought mine Friday and it has already shipped!  Got it from B&H

^
Thanks for the link.

Are the sleds for the Sony style batteries shipping too?  I hope to see my MP-6 next week.

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Offline rippleish20

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2017, 10:41:54 AM »
Is there any real "danger" of using a cable that passes more power then it is supposed to be spec at?
I mean if your battery outs 2.4 and the mp6 is looking for 3, what's the potential issues??
I could see if the mp6 was looking for 3 and your battery was sending sayyyyy 7

My guess would be nothing. USB-a batteries with an output of 1.5 - 2.4 amps are probably totally safe in  conjunction with a cable thats allows that to pass through. Ted has been using such a setup with no problems. The spec is designed to protect people from scenarios where one side is sending or asking for more than the other side can handle. I did the research because I wanted to know WHY the cables weren't working. My personal preference is to use cables in spec...
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Offline johnw

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2017, 10:42:26 AM »
Is there any real "danger" of using a cable that passes more power then it is supposed to be spec at?
I mean if your battery outs 2.4 and the mp6 is looking for 3, what's the potential issues??
I could see if the mp6 was looking for 3 and your battery was sending sayyyyy 7

I am not sure, but there are a number of reports of damaged macbooks, android phones, etc from using an incorrect cable. I believe in this case, the mp6 is looking for 1.5a over a cable that should only be spec'd for 0.9A. I would imagine this could generate heat along the cable and possibly battery. I wouldn't risk it.

EDIT: ripplephish20 beat me to a response and I think he has a much better grasp on this than I do. I still wouldn't do it. The USB C straight cables don't protrude significantly more than the right angle USB C cables and they both wiggle pretty significantly on the Mix Pre. There just isn't any reason in my mind to use a USB A to USB C cable.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 10:46:17 AM by johnw »
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Offline Paul Isaacs

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2017, 10:47:33 AM »
Is there any real "danger" of using a cable that passes more power then it is supposed to be spec at?
I mean if your battery outs 2.4 and the mp6 is looking for 3, what's the potential issues??
I could see if the mp6 was looking for 3 and your battery was sending sayyyyy 7

The MixPre is not looking for 3A. It needs 1.5A at 5V i.e. 7.5W

A USB-C to A cable that has a built-in resistor to allow the MixPre to draw full power from a USB-A power source that can't deliver 7.5W could potentially damage your USB power source or cause the MixPre to not function properly. You use these cables at your own risk. Be sure that your USB-A source can deliver 7.5W (1.5A at 5V)

Offline johnw

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2017, 10:48:28 AM »
Fatah Ruark - could you sticky or revise your first post to cover the batteries that have been tested and work? Or should we make a new thread in the remote power section?

Batteries with 3A USB C output that have been tested and work:

Monoprice Executive Series 15,000 mAh
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16240

Anker Power Core+ 20,100 mAh
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014ZO46LK/ref=psdc_7073960011_t2_B01MZ61PRW

Not tested but have 3A USB C output and should work:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZ61PRW/ref=psdc_7073960011_t2_B01K6TA748

Not within spec but seem to work - use at own risk: see note from Paul Isaacs from Sound Devices

Tecknet iEP390. No longer available

XTPower MP-10,000 mAh
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00935L44E/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Omnicharge Omni 20 20,400 mAh
https://www.amazon.com/Omnicharge-Portable-Charger-Fast-Charging-Adjustable/dp/B01NBJX99D/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496014261&sr=8-1&keywords=omni+charge
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 11:11:34 AM by johnw »
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