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Author Topic: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management  (Read 2558 times)

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Offline Mr.Fantasy

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Hey there!

I have recording stacking up and I am trying to share all this stuff (.wav files) with my dad and brother.

Just recorded Dead & Co. at Folsom Field, and I took my masters, did some normalization, split tracks, and dithered to 16/44.1 in Audition...then exported. But my .wav files are pretty large...so my dad and brother were having issues with them. So I feel like I might need to compress these files a bit for them. Don't really want to loose much quality, but would like to get smaller files.

I have the concern above, and then I was wondering what most people do with their recordings? As in, do you end up burning to CD? Do you just keep FLACS? How about sharing with friends & family?
"I read somewhere that 77 percent of all the mentally ill live in poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are apparently doing quite well for themselves" ---Jerry Garcia

Modified Nak 300's -> PS2 -> R-09 (looking for a pre-amp but am very indecisive)

Offline rippleish20

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2017, 11:00:19 AM »
In what way do your Dad & Brother have problems with the file sizes?
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Offline heathen

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2017, 11:01:02 AM »
You could certainly compress to flac for sharing.  I'm keeping my raw original master files (wav), and the "final product" in flac.  I don't burn to CDs for myself, but I do have redundant hard drives for backup.
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Offline Mr.Fantasy

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2017, 11:40:00 AM »
In what way do your Dad & Brother have problems with the file sizes?

Well, I have a paid Dropbox account, so I have lot's of space. I put the tracks into a folder on my dropbox and shared it with them. When I was at my folks house last night, he was having trouble because his dropbox (free account) didn't have enough room to download the files to. I really am not trying to get this stuff into his dropbox, but onto his computer. So I was thinking, either I transfer the files to him a different way, or a reduce their size.

And yeah, I do FLACs myself, but these guys aren't hip to all of that. They need more consumer-level files. I was thinking of going all the way to mp3s...but it just kills me to do that.

I guess I have never really settled into a set "process" so I have been slow in processing recordings, etc. I want to get a system going where I do x, y, z (or however many steps) and I do that every time so my stuff is consistent.

Like naming for instance....I have no set naming philosophy. I see some file names on LMA and it takes a decoder ring to figure them out.
"I read somewhere that 77 percent of all the mentally ill live in poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are apparently doing quite well for themselves" ---Jerry Garcia

Modified Nak 300's -> PS2 -> R-09 (looking for a pre-amp but am very indecisive)

Offline aaronji

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2017, 11:52:57 AM »
I save the raw files (usually 24/48) and the edited file(s) (after EQ, normalization, fades, etc.).  Then, I resample and dither to 16/44.1, track and flac.  I throwaway the resampled/dithered file and the tracked wav files.  I also save the CDWave track file and flac fingerprints.  So, in the end, I have the raw and edited files and tracked flacs. 

To transfer, try putting the wav files in a folder and zip it, then transfer via WeTransfer.  Break it into two folders if necessary.  This is free and easy.  Also, you can install a flac converter in Foobar which is simple to use.  Transferring flacs is much easier...

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2017, 12:11:44 PM »

And yeah, I do FLACs myself, but these guys aren't hip to all of that. They need more consumer-level files. I was thinking of going all the way to mp3s...but it just kills me to do that.


no, no and no.  I use wetransfer, but hightail also works.  Just zip the folder and send as one link.  Again, do not go the mp3 route.  Stick to 16 441 wav files.  Its not too hard.

Offline if_then_else

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2017, 12:17:17 PM »
In what way do your Dad & Brother have problems with the file sizes?

And yeah, I do FLACs myself, but these guys aren't hip to all of that. They need more consumer-level files. I was thinking of going all the way to mp3s...but it just kills me to do that.

FWIW, there are a few 'hybrid' audio  formats like wavpack with which you can create small (lossy), high-quality audio files and a delta 'correction' file that allows you to restore the original input file. No idea hough, if there's any decent hardware support for wavpack.

Offline Mr.Fantasy

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2017, 12:19:48 PM »
Thanks for all the responses!

I will take the zip and transfer route.

Also, I am going to educate the group on FLAC....as that is a better solution long-term.
"I read somewhere that 77 percent of all the mentally ill live in poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are apparently doing quite well for themselves" ---Jerry Garcia

Modified Nak 300's -> PS2 -> R-09 (looking for a pre-amp but am very indecisive)

Offline morst

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2017, 07:09:01 PM »
Well, I have a paid Dropbox account, so I have lot's of space. I put the tracks into a folder on my dropbox and shared it with them. When I was at my folks house last night, he was having trouble because his dropbox (free account) didn't have enough room to download the files to. I really am not trying to get this stuff into his dropbox, but onto his computer.

Dropbox gives the ability to download to your computer. The function might be hidden a bit, so try sharing the direct link with them instead of adding them to the folder, then they can just click on Direct Download.
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Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2017, 07:31:44 PM »
Several things:

This first:

I'm keeping my raw original master files (wav), and the "final product" in flac.  I don't burn to CDs for myself, but I do have redundant hard drives for backup.

Second:  If they're having trouble with Dropbox they may have trouble with flacs (and with burning files)...  If they have a player that plays flac and will be playing by computer or a flac player that may work, otherwise it could be somewhat a rabbit hole. 

Third:  Dropbox has a way to offer downloads without saving them to your Dropbox but it's not obvious.  Dropbox wants you to use their not very intuitive system so you'll send files to other people who have only minimal free space and it will be confusing enough they'll have to subscribe too in order to get what you (and others) sent them.  It's an effective business model but not an efficient way to share files...

Fourth: As noted Hightail is a good free one.  I like WeTransfer (wetransfer.com) better (free and up to 2 GB in a transfer either as a single file or multiple files within a transfer).  You can send wavs of long shows in a single set or multiple transfers if needed and they can burn those directly.  If they can figure out flac and how to play them then virtually show can be sent in one WeTransfer.  It's very simple to use (one of our friends on this board had not been able to figure out how to share files short of burning data discs and I kept suggesting WeTransfer).  That worked well even for them as an uploader.  I've never had anyone say they couldn't retrieve the files (unless the transfer expired since the free version is only good for 7 days)

On the MP3 thing (though anathema to us here!) lately I've been making those for most sets I send to the musicians since even most musicians don't know what to do with flac and they're on the move so much that when they play music it's mostly on their ipod so they need MP3's anyway.   I always send links to both (sort of my way of testing) but most musicians only download the MP3's.  If they need the pure files they know where to find them :-)

« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 07:37:07 PM by bombdiggity »
Gear:
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Offline rigpimp

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2017, 12:52:00 PM »
Also, I am going to educate the group on FLAC....as that is a better solution long-term.

I have struggled with this part in the past.  Now I can say something like "Have you downloaded VLC?  It plays FLAC files."  Sometimes the things that we are picky about others are not.  I have been recording demos for a local car collecting band that plays hits from the 50's and 60's and I have to dumb stuff down to MP3 for them.
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Offline morst

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2017, 01:35:07 PM »
MP3 is fine for what it is, but folks need to know what it is not. It is not a mastering format. It is not an archival format.

It IS a convenient, limited-quality playback format.

As long as MP3 is recognized as a reference and not an original, I fully support its use. But don't throw out those lossless masters!  ;)
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Offline jagraham

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2017, 11:03:51 PM »
I would say the best solution would be to upload to the archive, since this is DeadCo and they allow for it. Archive will create downloadable mp3s for those worried about file size, while retaining the FLACs and allowing for streaming via mobile devices, etc.

Well, I have a paid Dropbox account, so I have lot's of space. I put the tracks into a folder on my dropbox and shared it with them. When I was at my folks house last night, he was having trouble because his dropbox (free account) didn't have enough room to download the files to. I really am not trying to get this stuff into his dropbox, but onto his computer.

Dropbox gives the ability to download to your computer. The function might be hidden a bit, so try sharing the direct link with them instead of adding them to the folder, then they can just click on Direct Download.

I always just send bands and people I'm sharing recordings with the Dropbox link. Highlight the "Share" button to the right of the folder name on the Dropbox web portal, and copy and paste the link it will create. In fact, it never even crossed my mind that the person receiving the link had to actually put the files in their Dropbox, or even have a Dropbox account at all.
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Offline Mr.Fantasy

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2017, 05:18:24 PM »
Thanks for even more replies! I do appreciate it!

How about file naming philosophy? How do you name your stuff?
"I read somewhere that 77 percent of all the mentally ill live in poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are apparently doing quite well for themselves" ---Jerry Garcia

Modified Nak 300's -> PS2 -> R-09 (looking for a pre-amp but am very indecisive)

Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2017, 05:38:34 PM »
Mine are always:

Artist-city-yyyy-mm-dd{-sx}-trxx-xxbit

I don't abbreviate the artist.  The set indicator is only there if the show was more than one set.  Track number always (at least) two digits (Audition seems to default to three digits when I start at track 0).  The bit rate may be optional as well if you only provide one.  Some will add indications of the taper or the gear used (which may help when numerous sources are around).  I use "-" not "." in the naming string. 

Others' MMV. 

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Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

Offline acidjack

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2017, 09:46:47 AM »
In what way do your Dad & Brother have problems with the file sizes?

Well, I have a paid Dropbox account, so I have lot's of space. I put the tracks into a folder on my dropbox and shared it with them. When I was at my folks house last night, he was having trouble because his dropbox (free account) didn't have enough room to download the files to. I really am not trying to get this stuff into his dropbox, but onto his computer. So I was thinking, either I transfer the files to him a different way, or a reduce their size.

And yeah, I do FLACs myself, but these guys aren't hip to all of that. They need more consumer-level files. I was thinking of going all the way to mp3s...but it just kills me to do that.

Why? If the listeners don't care, why should you?

You recorded Dead & Co from a PA system with a max dynamic range of maybe 20-12,000Hz from like 100-200 ft away. It's always good to store stuff for yourself in hi-res format, but it won't make any appreciable difference in listening, certainly not to most people. A V0 MP3 or 320 MP3 will be just about indistinguishable from those WAV files and much easier for your listeners to handle, and presumably you're making the stuff available for them to enjoy...
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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2017, 12:47:15 PM »
Thanks for even more replies! I do appreciate it!

How about file naming philosophy? How do you name your stuff?
kindms and I are constantly discussing this.
I like:
artistyyyy-mm-ddmicinfo.bitratedxtxx          so a typical one would be: erevival2016-07-16ck22ck61.24d1t01   
kindms prefers to put the bitrate at the end of the string with no period separators as he feels Windows handles the period separators oddly:
erevival2016-07-16ck22ck61d1t0124              ( I may be wrong, hopefully he can chime in to affirm or correct this)       
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

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Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2017, 01:30:46 PM »
kindms prefers to put the bitrate at the end of the string with no period separators as he feels Windows handles the period separators oddly:
erevival2016-07-16ck22ck61d1t0124              ( I may be wrong, hopefully he can chime in to affirm or correct this)       

In Windows particularly but proper file naming convention in general what follows a "." should be the file type extension (wav or mp3 or jpg or txt, etc.).  More modern editions of Windows probably won't be thrown by a bunch of "."'s in the middle of a file but I don't like it.  That's why I said I use a "-" rather than a "." in my thoughts above. 
Gear:
Audio:
Schoeps MK4V
Nak CM-100/CM-300 w/ CP-1's or CP-4's
SP-CMC-25
>
Oade C mod R-44  OR
Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10 (formerly Roland R-05) 
Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

Offline morst

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2017, 04:05:15 PM »
More modern editions of Windows probably won't be thrown by a bunch of "."'s in the middle of a file but I don't like it.  That's why I said I use a "-" rather than a "." in my thoughts above.

I don't like it either. I definitely prefer the "-" hyphen character over a "." period or dot as a separator. The Underscore "_" and "~" tilde characters are also useful if you need to separate words or sections within a filename sequence.

Also note that some file systems, especially Linux/Unix-based ones (like the ones that power archive.org) ARE cASE sENSITIVE!  :-X

Be cautious that your file naming is all consistent, and if you make changes, be sure that the case of your extensions is ALSO consistent! foo-bar.FLAC is NOT the same file as foo-bar.flac on SOME systems, though it may be on yours!
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Offline Mr.Fantasy

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2017, 11:02:13 AM »
Thanks for all the responses....those are great suggestions.

Thank you all!
"I read somewhere that 77 percent of all the mentally ill live in poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are apparently doing quite well for themselves" ---Jerry Garcia

Modified Nak 300's -> PS2 -> R-09 (looking for a pre-amp but am very indecisive)

Offline Scooter123

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2017, 11:35:02 AM »
After Mastering,

Split and Name Tracks in Goldwave
Then Convert to Flac in Media Monkey.  Media Monkey has a cool "mask" feature where it will automatically name and then transfer to a folder of your choice in whatever format you want.  Mine look like this:  Artist/Show/Artist - xx (track number) song title, so under the folder "Live Concerts" will be Clapton, Eric, within that folder is Eric Clapton 2017 05-19 Royal Albert Hall London UK.  Within that folder are the tracks Eric Clapton - 01 Layla.flac

Sharing is easy, burn to CD or convert to mp3 using Media Monkey

I have 10TB of music, stored in a Raid 1 Format (LSI Raid Card) backed up to JBOD with Raid 0
Regards,

Scooter123

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Offline djphrayz

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2017, 07:41:32 PM »
As far as file naming is concerned, Windows is tolerant of more than one "." in a file name, so these "rules" mentioned earlier are really personal preference at this point. 

An important thing to be aware of when/if you split the tracks: it's a good idea to split at the sector boundaries.  If you're not familiar with this concept, it pretty much boils down to this: the smallest time segment that can be stored on a CD is 1/75th of a second, and the boundaries between these segments are called "sector boundaries."  If your track split does not fall on one of these sector boundaries, you will hear an unpleasant artifact (a pop or click) as the CD player transitions between tracks.

I use free software called CD Wave Editor for my track splits.

Hope this helps.
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Offline rigpimp

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2017, 08:24:41 PM »

I use free software called CD Wave Editor ....


I feel obligated to correct this statement.  CD Wave is shareware, and is not free.  If you have not paid Mike the $15 to register it you really should.  If you use it as often as most of us do it is a pittance for the value that we get out of his work.  /public service message
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
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Offline djphrayz

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2017, 08:58:45 PM »

I use free software called CD Wave Editor ....


I feel obligated to correct this statement.  CD Wave is shareware, and is not free.  If you have not paid Mike the $15 to register it you really should.  If you use it as often as most of us do it is a pittance for the value that we get out of his work.  /public service message

Thank you rigpimp.  I believe I did pay for this software, since as you said $15 is quite reasonable.  It has been a while... thank you for keeping me honest!
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Offline morst

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Re: Common "Workflows" Post-Recording- Specifically file management
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2017, 03:11:57 PM »
An important thing to be aware of when/if you split the tracks: it's a good idea to split at the sector boundaries.  If you're not familiar with this concept, it pretty much boils down to this: the smallest time segment that can be stored on a CD is 1/75th of a second, and the boundaries between these segments are called "sector boundaries."  If your track split does not fall on one of these sector boundaries, you will hear an unpleasant artifact (a pop or click) as the CD player transitions between tracks.
Note that these boundaries are only meaningful on 44.1 kHz recordings. 48kHz is not used for direct CD burning, so split points will not be able to be correlated with CD sector boundaries.

Audacity can snap to nearest sector boundaries too, and it's open-source freeware.
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