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Author Topic: Internal mics question  (Read 18162 times)

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Offline to_taper

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Internal mics question
« on: July 07, 2017, 11:49:05 AM »
I have only used my internal mics once in the past 5 years, and that was out of desperation.

I have another situation where I want to record a local act but have to travel really lightly (the show occurs right between me taking my wife to a theatre matinee and then a dinner for our 35th wedding anniversary).

I have an Edirol R-09HR and a Sony PCM-M10. I plan to stand up by the speakers with the deck in my shirt pocket. Which of the two decks has the better mics?

Any help here on the deck or recording location would be appreciated.

Thanks

Offline heesu

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2017, 12:01:00 PM »
I don't have either of those decks, but I've used internals a few times (zoom h2n / d50). You can pull decent recordings with internals, but they are more susceptible to crowd noise, and clipping. The quiet, acoustic shows have sounded good during the music - but were an absolute mess every time the crowd reacted. When I taped Bob Weir @ Austin City limits from the balcony, my levels were much better and the sound more balanced between music/applause - so it came out alright.

As long as you make sure you're not overloading, it should be ok.

Offline furburger

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2017, 05:57:11 PM »
I have only used my internal mics once in the past 5 years, and that was out of desperation.

I have another situation where I want to record a local act but have to travel really lightly (the show occurs right between me taking my wife to a theatre matinee and then a dinner for our 35th wedding anniversary).

I have an Edirol R-09HR and a Sony PCM-M10. I plan to stand up by the speakers with the deck in my shirt pocket. Which of the two decks has the better mics?

Any help here on the deck or recording location would be appreciated.

Thanks

I'm 100% sold on the internals on my DR-2D. (I own 4, and am about to buy 2 more)

they have 'lo', 'med', and 'high' gain settings, then 100 levels for each of those 3 settings.

around 88 to 92 on lo-gain, and 66 to 74 on med-gain is the best for "rock" music (and I tape a *lot* of it)

I'd imagine "high" gain would be for if you were at a Henry Rollins spoken word show, away from talkers and clappers.

I've had artists let me set them on the stage by their feet on 'low' gain, and come away with some pretty amazing stuff.   mini-tripods aid greatly in that.

the other sweet part about the DR-2D is the "dual" record mode, in that it will record a 2nd stereo track simultaneously anywhere from -6 to -12db (you can preset what level it's at in the menu before recording), so it's virtually impossible to get "too close overload", unless you set your levels way too hot.

I like to have my bounce anywhere  from -3 to -6dB for a well mixed show, to -8 to -12dB for a show that's poorly mixed that may need post-show equalization (more headroom).

I did *hate* the internals in my R-09 (1st generation, WAY too tinny and harsh), but the DR-2D internals, when set correctly, are very hard to discern from my Sonic Studios stealth mics, and on occasion they exceed the Sonics in quality.

so I'd stay away from the Edirol (unless that 2nd gen HR machine had improvements made) based on my experience with the internals on the *different* machine and go with the Sony, unless you can find a DR-2D
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 06:03:00 PM by furburger »
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Offline furburger

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2017, 06:09:45 PM »
if your event is a few weeks from now, I could mail you one of my DR-2D's as a 'backup' for your event.

it's a"2 button push to record" deck (well 3, if you count "power on")
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Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2017, 06:33:47 PM »
Use the Sony.  Set input sensitivity to low and use manual levels appropriately low. 
Gear:
Audio:
Schoeps MK4V
Nak CM-100/CM-300 w/ CP-1's or CP-4's
SP-CMC-25
>
Oade C mod R-44  OR
Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10 (formerly Roland R-05) 
Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

Offline nak700s

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2017, 06:54:18 PM »
I own both of those decks.  The Edirol R-09HR has better internal mics.  They are rated better and in my personal experience, they are better.  The Sony PCM-M10 are good, but given the choice, there is no choice. Set your levels low enough to accommodate peaking out and put your limiter on anyway just to be safe.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline morst

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2017, 08:59:15 PM »
I plan to stand up by the speakers with the deck in my shirt pocket. Which of the two decks has the better mics?
Remember to use hearing protection!!

I have the M10 and don't love the internal mics, but they work. I used to have a Zoom H2 and I thought it actually had pretty good mics (but it was not for me, because it could not handle proper line level input without an attenuator.)

One nice thing about the M10 is that the internal mics are omni's, so they don't have the proximity effect of a directional mic (extra bass pickup from close sources), and hence don't pick up as much handling noise as the units with cardioid internals.
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Offline edtyre

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2017, 12:13:20 PM »
mini-tripods aid greatly in that.

Isn't that a mic stand recording? :-)
music>mics>pre>recorder

Offline ilduclo

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2017, 01:27:58 PM »
a friend of mine uses the m10 and gets pretty good results.  :cheers:

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2017, 01:30:16 PM »
mini-tripods aid greatly in that.

Isn't that a mic stand recording? :-)

selfie stick   :bigsmile:

Offline furburger

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2017, 10:24:54 PM »
mini-tripods aid greatly in that.

Isn't that a mic stand recording? :-)


no, I don't hang Deady bears from a 6 inch tripod, looking for attention.

it dampens the vibration from the stage floor.
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Offline Scooter123

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2017, 01:32:59 AM »
I haven't heard a tape made with internal microphones worth a damn in probably three years.  Perhaps in a super small club with the band close in and moderate volume it might work, but basically internal mikes are crap. 

Any cheap microphone and a battery box will be a 100% improvement.  I started with Church Mikes and his preamps and they are way better than any internal mikes I've ever used or listened to. 

And if you think about it, Tascam, Zoom, and Sony probably spend no more than $10 on their mikes to sell their units at $200, and Church mikes and a battery box cost in excess of $200.  You get what you pay for.
Regards,

Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline ilduclo

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2017, 09:22:38 AM »
:lol:

Offline morst

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2017, 02:37:31 PM »
And if you think about it, Tascam, Zoom, and Sony probably spend no more than $10 on their mikes to sell their units at $200, and Church mikes and a battery box cost in excess of $200.  You get what you pay for.

M10 retailed for $349 list...

And what do you reckon is the cost of the mic elements on the Church set versus the Primos that Sony uses? Just curious how your comparison of retail vs wholesale prices shoots out...

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Offline ilduclo

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2017, 03:22:39 PM »
and, my Sony D50 has pretty good mics, too, IMO, and then there's the Sony d100, so I think internals can be ok...... :yack:

 

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