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Author Topic: 48 KHz question.....  (Read 7311 times)

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Offline 1st set only

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48 KHz question.....
« on: October 20, 2003, 10:20:43 AM »
So I went ot and taped Prodject Object on friday. Unbelivable, Frank Zappa rose from the dead in Boston. I did a 3 mic mix it came out great but I really cant tell what the third mic actually did for the recording as i didnt turn it off and on for the opener to test.

question # 1

I recorded at 48 kHz to my JB3 and then transfered to SF, cut it up and burned it with nero. the discs sound like a badly compressed mp3 (tinny) on disc but the originals sound great. What is going on? I have a burner that can burn @ 52x should I burn at a slower speed?

question # 2

Flac front end is not able to compress the files? Cant Flac handle 48 kHz?

d
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Offline nickgregory

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2003, 10:25:24 AM »
you need to resample to 44.1, which is the CD capable sampling rate.

Offline 1st set only

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2003, 10:29:10 AM »
I belive that nero is doing it on the fly.... would burning at a slower speed remidy this? I would like to avoid resamling....
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Offline rmouk

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2003, 10:52:11 AM »
FLAC can definately handle 48 kHz files.  I run a UA-5 -> JB3 and if I run 16/48 I like to keep a FLAC'd master copy at 48 kHz in case I ever decide to do any DSP at a later time (like when I actually learn how do it right!).  Then I resample the whole master track, cut it up into tracks in CDWAV, and FLAC the 44.1 kHz tracks.

Bob

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2003, 10:52:20 AM »
Actually I dont think Nero does this on the fly....I believe it burns whatever the sampled .wav is.  

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2003, 11:10:31 AM »
well nero can burn audio cd's from flac files....  so i would think that it could resample on the fly.

I dont have the files with me here but I do remember that the error messages that I got from flac was cannot find PO 03-10-17d1t#.flac
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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2003, 11:21:08 AM »
Understand that Nero can burn flac files, but it will burn whatever the .wav rate is...either 44.1 or 48kHz.  If it "resampled on the fly" it would take as long it takes to resample a normal .wav file....depending on computer speed 20 minutes - over an hour - to burn a disc....I would try resampling to 44.1 then reburning and see if that solves your problem.

Offline wbrisette

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2003, 11:53:19 AM »
If it "resampled on the fly" it would take as long it takes to resample a normal .wav file....depending on computer speed 20 minutes - over an hour - to burn a disc...

Well, I can tell you from experience that WaveBurner from Emagic does this on a Mac and it doesn't take any longer than burning a standard 44.1 file. It gives you several methods to use when converting, so I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that a CD burning program handle this real-time without slowing down the burning process. How Emagic does this, I don't know, but if they can do it, so can others.

Wayne
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Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2003, 12:02:32 PM »
If it "resampled on the fly" it would take as long it takes to resample a normal .wav file....depending on computer speed 20 minutes - over an hour - to burn a disc...

Well, I can tell you from experience that WaveBurner from Emagic does this on a Mac and it doesn't take any longer than burning a standard 44.1 file. It gives you several methods to use when converting, so I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that a CD burning program handle this real-time without slowing down the burning process. How Emagic does this, I don't know, but if they can do it, so can others.

Wayne

then I am mistaken...

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2003, 03:16:24 PM »
you would be MUCH better off resampling thru a wave editing program...try samplitude 6.0 or cool edit..they HAVE to be leaps and boundz over nero 8)and if that noise is being heard, its NOT resampling... :)
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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2003, 03:35:21 PM »
i thought nero resampled audio by going D > A > D on the fly. sounds like it from what you are describing. also your errors with flac not finding files might have to do with the space in the filename. i know flacbat chokes on files with spaces.. but i can usually decompress/compress them with frontend no problem.


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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2003, 03:42:11 PM »
you would be MUCH better off resampling thru a wave editing program...

I'm curious to know why you think this? If done properly there should be NO difference between resampling through any audio application and resampling "on-the-fly" during burning. I find it a lot easier to leave the material at 48KHz, then let WaveBurner do it's converting when it burns it to CD. I've compared resampling prior and WB's resampling while burning and can't tell any difference between the two.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2003, 03:48:37 PM »
i thought nero resampled audio by going D > A > D on the fly. sounds like it from what you are describing. also your errors with flac not finding files might have to do with the space in the filename. i know flacbat chokes on files with spaces.. but i can usually decompress/compress them with frontend no problem.



thank you this might work ill try it tonight
+t
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2003, 04:02:07 PM »
you would be MUCH better off resampling thru a wave editing program...

I'm curious to know why you think this? If done properly there should be NO difference between resampling through any audio application and resampling "on-the-fly" during burning. I find it a lot easier to leave the material at 48KHz, then let WaveBurner do it's converting when it burns it to CD. I've compared resampling prior and WB's resampling while burning and can't tell any difference between the two.

Wayne

well, for one, as mentioned above, it didnt sound like his nero was resampling "on the fly" right .if a lot of audible noise and pitch were heard, id say it soundz like it didnt do a too fine of a job resampling :)and i havent tried yer wave burner(soundz nice), maybe it does a better job resampling, i dunno, i might have to give it a try......

i basically just like the comfort of knowing if i use samplitude 6.0 or whatever, i have in my hands professional recording equpment that can do it not on the fly, but i have a better gut feeling using :D
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

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http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
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Offline wbrisette

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2003, 04:04:57 PM »
and i havent tried yer wave burner(soundz nice), maybe it does a better job resampling, i dunno, i might have to give it a try......

Of course that would mean upgrading to a Mac since Emagic never made this product for the Windows and now that Apple owns Emagic I doubt they ever will.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

Offline dklein

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2003, 04:12:01 PM »

I'm curious to know why you think this? If done properly there should be NO difference between resampling through any audio application and resampling "on-the-fly" during burning. I find it a lot easier to leave the material at 48KHz, then let WaveBurner do it's converting when it burns it to CD. I've compared resampling prior and WB's resampling while burning and can't tell any difference between the two.

Wayne

I think there is a HUGE difference between audio applications when it comes to resampling.  Ever tried using the built in windows codec for resampling?

How did you test?  What were you listening on?

I don't know Waveburner but I'd strongly encourage you to try out a few different apps and settings before burning more discs.  Resampling is a huge number crunching exercise and the higher quality conversions always take longer.

Why not record in 44.1 if CD is the destination?
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Offline wbrisette

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2003, 04:28:27 PM »
I don't know Waveburner but I'd strongly encourage you to try out a few different apps and settings before burning more discs.  Resampling is a huge number crunching exercise and the higher quality conversions always take longer.

Why not record in 44.1 if CD is the destination?

I'll answer the first question first: WaveBurner is a professional tool designed so that you work with your files in 24-bit format up to 96 KHz. They provide plug-ins so you can do all your work in WB without modifying the original content. They use the original source material then, downsample and dither are done at time of burning using one of several POW-r routines.

For those curious check out Emagic's web site http://www.emagic.de for more detailed information about WaveBurner Pro. If you own a Mac and want to make true redbook CDs, I highly recommend this product. There is a downside, it was selling for about $299.00 USD last time I checked. I was fortunate enough to get a version with an Emagic audio card, but then I sold that card and they allowed me to upgrade for less than $150. Currently this product is not Mac OS X compatible (which isn't a problem for me since I haven't upgraded my Waves plug-ins to Mac OS X).

CD is NEVER my destination, it's DAT. CD is just the by-product of people not wanting or having DAT. I prefer DATs and listen to my DATs as much if not more than CDs. Also while slight, there is a difference between 44.1 KHz and 48 KHz (at least if you believe Nyquist).

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

Offline HanKDanK

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2003, 04:38:27 PM »
you would be MUCH better off resampling thru a wave editing program...try samplitude 6.0 or cool edit..they HAVE to be leaps and boundz over nero 8)and if that noise is being heard, its NOT resampling... :)

Bean... I know you are as much a transfer slut as I am.  What do you find to be most secure.  I always just resample with wavlab while its loaded in there, but is cool edit of samplitude more secure???  Just asking bc I think you use wavlab to record and im sitting here wondering why you didnt mention it to resample  ???

-Hank

Don't try and tell me i haven't had a coke before...i've got a mind like a steel trap...the capital of djibouti is djibouti

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2003, 05:21:17 PM »

I'll answer the first question first: WaveBurner is a professional tool designed so that you work with your files in 24-bit format up to 96 KHz. They provide plug-ins so you can do all your work in WB without modifying the original content. They use the original source material then, downsample and dither are done at time of burning using one of several POW-r routines.

For those curious check out Emagic's web site http://www.emagic.de for more detailed information about WaveBurner Pro. If you own a Mac and want to make true redbook CDs, I highly recommend this product. There is a downside, it was selling for about $299.00 USD last time I checked. I was fortunate enough to get a version with an Emagic audio card, but then I sold that card and they allowed me to upgrade for less than $150. Currently this product is not Mac OS X compatible (which isn't a problem for me since I haven't upgraded my Waves plug-ins to Mac OS X).

CD is NEVER my destination, it's DAT. CD is just the by-product of people not wanting or having DAT. I prefer DATs and listen to my DATs as much if not more than CDs. Also while slight, there is a difference between 44.1 KHz and 48 KHz (at least if you believe Nyquist).

Wayne

Good answer - showing my MAC ignorance again.  I figured it was just one of many all-in-one burning programs.

As far as CD never being your destination, again good reasons for the 48k (and I don't disbelieve Nyquist...I just don't have a 48k playback solution to hear it for myself!)
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older recording gear: UA-5  / emagic A62 / laptop / JB3 / CSB / AD20 / Sharp MT-90 / Sony MDS-JE510
Playback: Pioneer DV-578 > Lucid DA 9624 >many funny little british boxes > Linn Isobarik PMS

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2003, 12:46:26 AM »
you would be MUCH better off resampling thru a wave editing program...try samplitude 6.0 or cool edit..they HAVE to be leaps and boundz over nero 8)and if that noise is being heard, its NOT resampling... :)

Bean... I know you are as much a transfer slut as I am.  What do you find to be most secure.  I always just resample with wavlab while its loaded in there, but is cool edit of samplitude more secure???  Just asking bc I think you use wavlab to record and im sitting here wondering why you didnt mention it to resample  ???

-Hank



i have wavelab 4.0c, and while i could never tell a difference, i trusted the good ole ppl over on this board and they say there are problems w/ 4.0c, and not 4.0g, so i have samplitude 6.0 to do the resampling and saving and use wavelab strictly for recording... 8)also, i noticed that samplitude takes longer than wavelab to resample....as rabhan and i were discussing a few weeks ago, if it takes longer, it must be doing a better job, right??i seem to think so, but whatever, i have 48k flac backups just incase... ;)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
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Offline Sean Gallemore

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2003, 01:44:02 AM »
and i havent tried yer wave burner(soundz nice), maybe it does a better job resampling, i dunno, i might have to give it a try......

Of course that would mean upgrading to a Mac since Emagic never made this product for the Windows and now that Apple owns Emagic I doubt they ever will.

Wayne

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2003, 11:17:07 PM »
makes a lot of sense... im going to grab the samplitude 7.0 i think and play with resampling on the fly, just one less step to worry about  :P

-Hank

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Re:48 KHz question.....
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2003, 02:09:05 PM »
makes a lot of sense... im going to grab the samplitude 7.0 i think and play with resampling on the fly, just one less step to worry about  :P

-Hank



no doubt hank :D
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

 

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