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Author Topic: Comparing recordings from pro and amateur setups  (Read 7746 times)

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Offline 6079

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Comparing recordings from pro and amateur setups
« on: April 21, 2007, 09:16:06 PM »
Let's compare a minidisc recorder with a good mic against the more elaborate rigs, with decks and multiple mics.

Not trying to sound like an idiot, but I just don't know.
Has there been a good test, comparing the same recording settings and circumstances, but using different equipment, as to compare results?

In a typical concert hall, where the sound isn't always so clear, is there a significant difference to be derived?

Another question is your opinion on what the priority is of most important devices/etc. to ensure a great recording (mics, venue, recorder, etc.).
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Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Comparing recordings from pro and amateur setups
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2007, 09:46:22 PM »
I would try the LMA. Good place to compare recordings / rigs. Finding an exact comparison between 2 different rigs at the same show might be difficult, but finding a MD vs. 722 shouldn't be too hard.

I can say for certain that I can easily tell the difference between inexpensive and expensive gear. Not only that, I have also become spoiled over the years. I used to be able to "deal" with my Oktava recordings. No more. I've heard too many good recordings from more expensive mics. Now I'm at the point where I'm going to buy some new mics, or just quit taping (most of the shows I go, and want to listen to again, are taped by someone else). Still, Oktava's are better than nothing (I was, sadly, the only taper at the Codetalkers in Boulder the other night).

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Offline shaggy

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Re: Comparing recordings from pro and amateur setups
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2007, 11:34:39 PM »
Another question is your opinion on what the priority is of most important devices/etc. to ensure a great recording (mics, venue, recorder, etc.).

location (in the venue), location (did I say that already?), mics, pre, A/D (in this case conversion to wav or atrac for you).

Mini-disc is fine, it is what you define is good sounding to your ears.  A majority of the world thinks that 128kbps mp3s sound as good as CDs.  If that is you, then MD is fine.  HiMD is convienent but you can't control the AD quailty.  As Fatah Ruark has pointed out, you listen to more and more live music from stuff recorded at in the belly of MSG to a small jazz club onstage, you will start to hear the shortcommings of mid-priced equipment and compressed formats.  Mainly the differences are more subtle: imaging, soundstage and detail rather than distortion and tinniness. You get what you pay for!

Offline guysonic

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Re: Comparing recordings from pro and amateur setups
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2007, 05:01:24 AM »

Another question is your opinion on what the priority is of most important devices/etc. to ensure a great recording (mics, venue, recorder, etc.).

In my experience, the microphone and method of using it is 90+% MOST responsible for the resulting recording quality.  This assumes microphone is working correctly without overloads into your choice of deck so recording is not being clipped by anything.

The other 10% or less is first the preamplifier, and more distant third is the A/D processing quality.


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Offline Arni99

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Re: Comparing recordings from pro and amateur setups
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2007, 01:23:07 PM »
on THURSDAY April 26th 2007 i will try to make a comparison between:(...the tonight-monday-gig is a solo-artist only without band....doesn´t make any sense taping him.)

iriver H140 rockboxed + Sennheiser MM-HLSO(MKE2 capsules) omnis + 9V bbox
and
Sony MZ-RH1 HI-MD recorder with same mics ....some songs on mic-in with bbox and some songs on line-in with bbox.

will be using 16bit 44,1kHz for both devices.

it will be a small club and a blues-concert.

if i succeed i will post the samples here.
;)
« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 12:54:42 PM by Arni99 »
1st: SONY PCM-M10 + DPA 4060's + DPA MPS 6030 power supply (microdot)
2nd: iPhone 5 + "Rode iXY" microphone/"Zoom IQ5" microphone

Offline boojum

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Re: Comparing recordings from pro and amateur setups
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2007, 01:58:00 PM »
Arni -  Great idea!  I kind of agree with guysonic that the mics are the key: their quality and placement.  Much as light is important for photography, and about the same percentage of importance.  The best test would be the same songs on each but we will make do with what we have.  Thanks for making the effort.

Cheers   8)
Nov schmoz kapop.

Offline Arni99

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Re: Comparing recordings from pro and amateur setups
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2007, 02:05:05 PM »
Arni -  Great idea!  I kind of agree with guysonic that the mics are the key: their quality and placement.  Much as light is important for photography, and about the same percentage of importance.  The best test would be the same songs on each but we will make do with what we have.  Thanks for making the effort.

Cheers   8)
no problem if u send me a second pair of MM-HLSO MKE2s mics  ;D!
1st: SONY PCM-M10 + DPA 4060's + DPA MPS 6030 power supply (microdot)
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Offline boojum

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Re: Comparing recordings from pro and amateur setups
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2007, 04:17:45 PM »
They're in the mail!   ;o)

8)
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Offline Chuck

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Re: Comparing recordings from pro and amateur setups
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2007, 05:22:36 PM »
I'll try to do a comparison:

AKG 481 > V3 > iHP-120 (high priced rig)

Church STC-11 > battery box > iHP-140 (low priced rig)
or
Church STC-11 > battery box > DMIC-20 > iHP-140 (medium priced rig)

I usually use my second rig to record the SBD feed, but I'll record an opener using the microphones an the same stand, in the same configuration as described above sometime, soon.
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Offline Arni99

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Re: Comparing recordings from pro and amateur setups
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2007, 08:16:06 PM »
samples 1,2 from same show but different songs ;)

sample 1:
sony mz-rh1 HI-MD recorder: MIC-IN(with plugin power)/MM-HLSO omnis(MKE-2 capsules)/(NO BBOX!) manual level at 10(of 30)/HI-SP(256kbit ATRAC3) mode=>WAV=>mp3
http://www.file-upload.net/download-259817/011-RH1-HLSO-MIC-IN-Rigor-Mortis-Group-feat_-Reverent-Frank-TT.mp3.html

sample 2:
iriver h140: MIC-IN = LINE-IN with plugin power/MM-HLSO omnis (MKE-2 capsules)/(NO BBOX!)/AGC-SAFETY-CLIP started with +20dB gain as always when the show starts...the iriver does decrease the gain if needed by itself but NEVER boosts levels("REP" from February 2007)/WAV 16bit 44.1kHz=>mp3
http://www.file-upload.net/download-259826/H140-rockboxed-REP_HLSO-omnis-NO-BBOX.mp3.html

sample 3: from same venue the night before
sony mz-rh1 HI-MD recorder: MM-HLSO omnis(MKE-2 capsules)/BBOX(no bassfilter -16Hz)/manual level control 21 of 30/LINE-IN/PCM(WAV)=>mp3
http://www.file-upload.net/download-259830/007-2007-04-26-RH1-BBOX-line-in-PCM-WAV.mp3.html


link to the mics i used mounted to my tshirts collar on left +right side:
http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmhlsomsenmi.htm

it was a loud blues-rock show....steve ray vaughan like ;) in a club for approximately 300 people max. and about 150 attended the show.

greets from vienna ;)
« Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 03:28:34 PM by Arni99 »
1st: SONY PCM-M10 + DPA 4060's + DPA MPS 6030 power supply (microdot)
2nd: iPhone 5 + "Rode iXY" microphone/"Zoom IQ5" microphone

Offline beefstew

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Re: Comparing recordings from pro and amateur setups
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2007, 10:34:23 PM »


sample 1:
sony mz-rh1 HI-MD recorder: MIC-IN(with plugin power)/MM-HLSO omnis(MKE-2 capsules)/(NO BBOX!) manual level at 10(of 30)/HI-SP(256kbit ATRAC3) mode=>WAV=>mp3


its definatly going to sound shittier because of the double compression
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Offline Arni99

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Re: Comparing recordings from pro and amateur setups
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2007, 04:18:55 AM »


sample 1:
sony mz-rh1 HI-MD recorder: MIC-IN(with plugin power)/MM-HLSO omnis(MKE-2 capsules)/(NO BBOX!) manual level at 10(of 30)/HI-SP(256kbit ATRAC3) mode=>WAV=>mp3


its definatly going to sound shittier because of the double compression
Actually I did a Sony MZ-RH1 PCM recording at the same venue the night before..check my post above ..sample 3.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 09:32:43 AM by Arni99 »
1st: SONY PCM-M10 + DPA 4060's + DPA MPS 6030 power supply (microdot)
2nd: iPhone 5 + "Rode iXY" microphone/"Zoom IQ5" microphone

Offline Dede2002

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Re: Comparing recordings from pro and amateur setups
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2007, 11:39:29 AM »


sample 1:
sony mz-rh1 HI-MD recorder: MIC-IN(with plugin power)/MM-HLSO omnis(MKE-2 capsules)/(NO BBOX!) manual level at 10(of 30)/HI-SP(256kbit ATRAC3) mode=>WAV=>mp3


its definatly going to sound shittier because of the double compression

Sorry about a possible uneducated question. What do you mean with "double compression"?
I can see only one (mp3). Thanks in advance. BTW, the sample sounds pretty decent to my ears being MP3.
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Comparing recordings from pro and amateur setups
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2007, 11:58:39 AM »
Sorry about a possible uneducated question. What do you mean with "double compression"?
I can see only one (mp3). Thanks in advance. BTW, the sample sounds pretty decent to my ears being MP3.

First compression:  HI-SP(256kbit ATRAC3)
Second compression:  MP3
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Offline Arni99

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Re: Comparing recordings from pro and amateur setups
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2007, 12:48:48 PM »
i encoded to mp3 so you can download the samples...or do u wanna download FLAC or WAV files?  ::)
« Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 12:53:54 PM by Arni99 »
1st: SONY PCM-M10 + DPA 4060's + DPA MPS 6030 power supply (microdot)
2nd: iPhone 5 + "Rode iXY" microphone/"Zoom IQ5" microphone

 

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