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Author Topic: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?  (Read 4029 times)

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Offline ninjadave

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Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« on: February 14, 2008, 10:25:13 AM »
can you mod these mics to change the end to a miniXLR and run into a church 9100 3wire or a 3 wire box and feed it 9v? i know the power requirement is 9v-52v......

would it underperform at 9v or does it need the full 48v to perform at its peak? i really like the sound of these....but hate to upgrade to a full size pre/phantom box......i stealth most of the time......

thanks.
ninjadave.
Mics: Milab VM-44 Links ~ AT853 [c/o] 
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Offline muj

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2008, 10:30:10 AM »
nope....the mic has two amplifiers integrated in the system ( one behind the capsule and one in the xlr ) from what i understand

Offline TNJazz

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2008, 02:03:12 PM »
I wonder if you could get the factory to do something custom - maybe terminate it in some sort of battery box or something?
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Offline muj

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2008, 02:08:01 PM »
I wonder if you could get the factory to do something custom - maybe terminate it in some sort of battery box or something?

the old man said no.... ;D

Offline illconditioned

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2008, 02:17:04 PM »
nope....the mic has two amplifiers integrated in the system ( one behind the capsule and one in the xlr ) from what i understand

That's wrong.  The mic capsule is pretty standard, capsule +FET.  Not really "standard" as the mic capsule itself has a stainless steel diaphragm, .0030mm thickness according to the engineers at Nevaton!  That is why it sounds so wonderful, folks.  But it *functions* just like any other electret mic element.

The wire goes to a phantom adapter that just acts as a step down from 48V and as a line driver.  I just traced the circuit the other day, takes approx 4mA, puts approx 16V across the FET.  All with a simple *one transistor* design.

I'm not inclined to hack these right now, but I don't see why they couldn't run at 9V, with 4mA current.  That's a lot of current, though.  The mics will end up taking the same current as the preamp.  Probably need new load resistors in the preamp, and lots more batteries used in the field...

  Richard
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 02:20:16 PM by illconditioned »
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

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Offline muj

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2008, 02:21:47 PM »
nope....the mic has two amplifiers integrated in the system ( one behind the capsule and one in the xlr ) from what i understand

That's wrong.  The mic capsule is pretty standard, capsule +FET.  Not really "standard" as the mic capsule itself has a stainless steel diaphragm, .0030mm thickness according to the engineers at Nevaton!  That is why it sounds so wonderful, folks.  But it *functions* just like any other electret mic element.

The wire goes to a phantom adapter that just acts as a step down from 48V and as a line driver.  I just traced the circuit the other day, takes approx 4mA, puts approx 16V across the FET.  All with a simple *one transistor* design.

I'm not inclined to hack these right now, but I don't see why they couldn't run at 9V, with 4mA current.  That's a lot of current, though.  The mics will end up taking the same current as the preamp.  Probably need new load resistors in the preamp, and lots more batteries used in the field...

  Richard



that's great news +T

just rememebr i got it from alexander and this from the web

"The MKA 400 is a miniature lavaliere microphone. Its transducer is a pressure sensor produced according to the so-called "back electret" technology. The diaphragm is made from 3µm thick metallic foil. The transformerless microphone amplifier is divided into two parts (or stages, to be more exact). The input stage, which represents an electronic micro-assembly, is located inside the body (8 mm in diameter and 15 mm long) immediately beside the transducer. The output stage is placed inside the XLR connector housing. The microphone set is furnished with three foam windscreens of different colors, a rigid protective case, clamps for single or double miking as well as fasteners for mounting the microphone on musical instruments. All the microphone models are protected by patents of the Russian Federation."
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 02:28:09 PM by muj »

Offline ninjadave

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2008, 03:21:34 PM »
thanks for the info richard....I don't know what it all means exactly but it sounds promising i guess......

so the XLR end is just a phantom adapter and if someone where to build a 9v or 16v BB that would take 3 wire or miniXLR from the mic, it would work running directly to an R9 (or other 1/8" plug) line or mic in? the answer to this i think is MAYBE or NOT EXACTLY......

the 4mA i don't understand....does that mean it would kill 9V's very fast or other batteries.....while also frying or damaging the R9 if there wasn't a resistor built into the BB before the signal feed into the R9 or other recorder?

i've been back and forth on all kinds of mics (actives, etc) and i think i've found what i'm looking for in these nevatons, but i don't want to get a new recorder or preamp......aerco mp-2 isn't that big i know....or go for the all in one Fostex but then i'm crouching a big nut there.....thanks for any followup...much appreciated....i don't expect you to hack yours incase it doesn't work out.....but it would be nice to know it can be done....thanks again.

ninjadave.
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Offline ironbut

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2008, 01:13:22 PM »
Excellent! From the samples I've listened to, these sound great! I guess the length of the XLR's +pre is what I'm concerned about (for stealthing). Without hacking the cables, couldn't a battery box be made where the XLR's connected inside of the box (it could open on one side to release the plugs/switch batteries) so the total length could be just a little longer than the connectors?

Online JD

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2008, 12:23:43 PM »
I'm really liking the sound of these mics. The xlr's are the deal breaker for me though.
Be nice if they could be modified to run with micro-dot connectors into the DPA MMA-6000. :hmmm:
Mics: DPA 4022, 4060; Nevaton MC51, MCE400; Gefell sms2000, m20, m21, m27
Pres: DPA MMA6000; Grace V2; Portico 5012; Sonosax SX-M2
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Offline ironbut

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2008, 09:42:38 PM »
Everything can be modded! If you want to depends on how often you sell and upgrade.
Don't drive stock!

Offline Dede2002

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2008, 02:22:50 PM »
Everything can be modded! If you want to depends on how often you sell and upgrade.
Don't drive stock!

In other words, if I use this cable  http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmdualxlrfem.htm
can I power the Nevaston with  a regular 9V bb?

Thanks in advance ;D
Mics..........................HLSC-1 and HLSO-MICRO
BB and Preamps........MM Micro bb / MM Custom Elite bb / Church 9100
                              
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Offline M

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2008, 03:54:42 PM »
Everything can be modded! If you want to depends on how often you sell and upgrade.
Don't drive stock!

In other words, if I use this cable  http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmdualxlrfem.htm
can I power the Nevaston with  a regular 9V bb?

Thanks in advance ;D

no
Beyer CK930>Naiant TB>M10

Offline Dede2002

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2008, 04:19:10 PM »
Everything can be modded! If you want to depends on how often you sell and upgrade.
Don't drive stock!

In other words, if I use this cable  http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmdualxlrfem.htm
can I power the Nevaston with  a regular 9V bb?

Thanks in advance ;D

no

 :'( :'( :'(

Mics..........................HLSC-1 and HLSO-MICRO
BB and Preamps........MM Micro bb / MM Custom Elite bb / Church 9100
                              
Recorders...................Edirol R-09 / Edirol R-09HR

Offline nottingham

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2008, 10:16:10 AM »
Does anyone know where I can pick up a pair of these Nevaton MCE 400's ?

Thanks Ron
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Offline ninjadave

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2008, 12:27:26 PM »
http://russian-mics.com/index.php/cPath/21_28?osCsid=4c1b5105764e4863170cc66961655053

i would exclude the VAT, not sure if you can..right now shipped to USA without the VAT, they are about $670 for a pair. i went the whole way thru in buying to see if they would let me buy without the VAT and they did...don't know if there is any customs issues, etc. i wish there was a 9v/16v diy mod for these to run into a three wire setup.......if they are 3 wire.........good luck. no US dealers i know of and i doubt anyone is getting rid of their set......

ninjadave.
Mics: Milab VM-44 Links ~ AT853 [c/o] 
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Recorders: Marantz PMD661 (Oade CM) ~ Sony PCM-M10
Playback: Sony MDR-7506 ~ Rokit 5's

http://ninjasroio.tripod.com/mainpage.html  [needs updated badly]

Offline ninjadave

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2008, 06:35:08 PM »
since we now have a USA dealer (thanks purple dudes!)....has anyone tried to hack these and build a DIY BB based upon what is needed to power them (about 16v per illconditioned to the FET)??? those XLRs are big....especially for a small mic like this.

would love to have a low profile solution but i know its tough asking someone to mod mics purchased for $450....i guess i could be ginny pig if somoene could do it and i had the cash.....seems you could do it in a way to preserve the current set up with 1/8" plugs on each end to reattach the XLR, if that is possible with the wiring (ie. same for DIY as the XLR 48v).

thanks for any input.
ciao.
Mics: Milab VM-44 Links ~ AT853 [c/o] 
Preamp/BB: CA-UGLY [+20db] ~ AT8531 [2]
Recorders: Marantz PMD661 (Oade CM) ~ Sony PCM-M10
Playback: Sony MDR-7506 ~ Rokit 5's

http://ninjasroio.tripod.com/mainpage.html  [needs updated badly]

Offline illconditioned

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2008, 07:38:40 PM »
since we now have a USA dealer (thanks purple dudes!)....has anyone tried to hack these and build a DIY BB based upon what is needed to power them (about 16v per illconditioned to the FET)??? those XLRs are big....especially for a small mic like this.

would love to have a low profile solution but i know its tough asking someone to mod mics purchased for $450....i guess i could be ginny pig if somoene could do it and i had the cash.....seems you could do it in a way to preserve the current set up with 1/8" plugs on each end to reattach the XLR, if that is possible with the wiring (ie. same for DIY as the XLR 48v).

thanks for any input.
ciao.
They will work with a "three wire" 9v battery box and a 13.3k source resistor.  Give that description and your favorite modder should be able to figure them out.  By the way, be careful, since the two internal wires are identical, no colour coding.  So you'll have to measure the voltages *before* taking the XLR connector off, and mark the source and drain somehow on the wires.

I like these mics a lot, but I'm not happy with my pair, they don't seem well matched at all.

I'm now exploring Countryman B3 lavalier mics, and I think these sound very good.  Interestingly, these are stainless steel diaphragm as well.  Maybe that is why I like them.  I will post samples and powering details for the B3 when I get them.  ETA two or three weeks (to get the mics and to test them).

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline TNJazz

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2008, 10:44:44 PM »
Give that description and your favorite modder should be able to figure them out. 

Um...that would be YOU, Richard.   :P
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Offline illconditioned

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2008, 11:32:19 PM »
Give that description and your favorite modder should be able to figure them out. 

Um...that would be YOU, Richard.   :P

Yeah, if someone wants me to mod, perhaps they can pay me "in kind" with a single MKE400, or perhaps a decent contribution to buying one.  For that I will build you a battery box.

Now I've got one pair, but they are not matched.  Either one is broken, or they just plain won't match.  I'd like to try another, but I don't want to spend any more money on Nevaton until I know what is going on.

Anyway, lmk if you're interested.

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline fp

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2008, 12:40:01 PM »
i've asked directly to the nevaton web site and still waiting for a full response ... will tell you if good news will come !!!
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Offline Dede2002

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2008, 01:31:56 PM »
i've asked directly to the nevaton web site and still waiting for a full response ... will tell you if good news will come !!!

 :coolguy:

Mics..........................HLSC-1 and HLSO-MICRO
BB and Preamps........MM Micro bb / MM Custom Elite bb / Church 9100
                              
Recorders...................Edirol R-09 / Edirol R-09HR

Offline fp

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2008, 06:10:31 AM »
i've got a response (i've asked them if they can mod the cable -1/8 mini plug or other - and power the mic with 9volts battery):

"I recieved an answer of the factory today and they said that a change to a
small connector makes another tweaking of the circuit neccessary, which
would be all in all too expensive.
The mic can operate with 9V-52V, so that would be fine.
I´m sorry that I can not tell you more positive results. Sometimes mods are
easy to realize and cost only a couple of coins, but in this case it seems
to be more complicated than I could expect myself.
If you have any more questions please come back to me."

Seems that the mod is possible but let's the "experts" speaking about it and do it !!!
AT831 > MARANTZ PMD660 (busman mod)

Offline TNJazz

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2008, 07:41:28 AM »
i've got a response (i've asked them if they can mod the cable -1/8 mini plug or other - and power the mic with 9volts battery):

"I recieved an answer of the factory today and they said that a change to a
small connector makes another tweaking of the circuit neccessary, which
would be all in all too expensive.
The mic can operate with 9V-52V, so that would be fine.
I´m sorry that I can not tell you more positive results. Sometimes mods are
easy to realize and cost only a couple of coins, but in this case it seems
to be more complicated than I could expect myself.
If you have any more questions please come back to me."

Seems that the mod is possible but let's the "experts" speaking about it and do it !!!



The circuit requires the board contained within the XLR connector.  So it's theoretically possible, but you would still need that XLR connector board *somewhere* within the circuit.

I'm sure if you were to purchase a pair of mics and donate them to researching this problem, one of the TS modders would be happy to give it a try for you.  I doubt anyone is willing to risk their own mics to test this possibility though.

What's the big deal about the XLR connector anyway?  I know a number of people who stealth with these as they are without issues.

Just make yourself a 9V batt box with XLR inputs and a 1/8 output.  Or get Chris Church or someone to make you one.
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Offline tcf

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2008, 12:18:34 PM »
Just go mcE400>MT1 and be done with it.  Smallest low pro/high quality set up out there.  Don't believe the hype until you hear it or try it.  The MT provides ample phantom power and is very easily powered for long periods of time.


Offline muj

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2008, 01:56:16 PM »
you can't please em all >:D

Offline dactylus

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Re: Nevaton MCE400...can you mod?
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2017, 09:59:30 AM »


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