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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: okietaper on March 06, 2019, 11:31:20 AM
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I have not taped a live show in over 10 years and what I what using back them, I am sure is out of date now. I am looking to get back into doing some taping as small festivals and I am not looking for a huge rig to tote around and I know that things were going digital when I was getting out so I am sure that the gear is much smaller and lighter than it used to be. I remember my last rig included an NJB3 and I can't remember the preamp I used but had a oade brother's warm mod on it. Maybe it was an edirol. I am looking into getting a comparable rig in the coming days and would love some input on what would be the most cost-effective setup for me to get another rig going with pretty much the same capabilities. I don't remember the mics that I used right off hand but there weren't super expensive. I want to say they were sweetwater CO2 maybe.
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A pair of Church Audio CA14 omnis is probably a good choice, though note that his shipping times can be...erratic. They're great bang for the buck, though, and are fully capable of making great recordings. For recorders I know some Oade modded units show up in the Yard Sale from time to time but others know more about that. You'd want some sort of battery box or preamp to go with the mics. If you're not worried about going deep stealth mode, a Church Audio CA9200 is a good option. That can certainly be stealthed, but something like an Ugly Battery Box would be even better for going deep undercover.
The other mics that come to mind are Audio-Technica AT853 cardioids, which you should be able to get from Sound Professionals. You'll likely want to get the "4.7k" mod (I think they call it the low sensitivity mod).
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A pair of Church Audio CA14 omnis is probably a good choice, though note that his shipping times can be...erratic. They're great bang for the buck, though, and are fully capable of making great recordings. For recorders I know some Oade modded units show up in the Yard Sale from time to time but others know more about that. You'd want some sort of battery box or preamp to go with the mics. If you're not worried about going deep stealth mode, a Church Audio CA9200 is a good option. That can certainly be stealthed, but something like an Ugly Battery Box would be even better for going deep undercover.
The other mics that come to mind are Audio-Technica AT853 cardioids, which you should be able to get from Sound Professionals. You'll likely want to get the "4.7k" mod (I think they call it the low sensitivity mod).
There's a set of CA-14s and Ugly preamp in the yard sale right now. I would just grab those and a small recorder like an M10 or A10 (I'm a Sony fanboy though).
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What's the budget?
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is this for an open taping stand situation or 007 stuff?
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I did this same walk about a year ago. I ended up with a used pair of AT4041 ($200) and a new Tascam DR100 mk3 ($250) I spent another $50 on a t-bar and screens. I kept my stand and had plenty of mic cables and a SD card, so I was all set.
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I did this same walk about a year ago. I ended up with a used pair of AT4041 ($200) and a new Tascam DR100 mk3 ($250) I spent another $50 on a t-bar and screens. I kept my stand and had plenty of mic cables and a SD card, so I was all set.
This is a very nice "bang for your buck" rig. If I was starting over I would very likely end up with this same setup.
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If you really want to make life easy on yourself just buy one of the many interfaces that work with your phone. If you want to spend some $$ the DPA 4061/6061>d:vice is pretty unparalleled, but I've seen other stereo input devices that can be paired with a phone that would probably work. Unless you're using mics that actually require phantom power, I don't see any point in owning a standalone deck anymore.
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If you really want to make life easy on yourself just buy one of the many interfaces that work with your phone. If you want to spend some $$ the DPA 4061/6061>d:vice is pretty unparalleled, but I've seen other stereo input devices that can be paired with a phone that would probably work. Unless you're using mics that actually require phantom power, I don't see any point in owning a standalone deck anymore.
So I should get rid of my decks and use some crappy buggy app on my also buggy iPhone? 👍😀
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Disagree with the phone option. To each his own but not an option I would consider.
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I think all the mic options that were mentioned so far are good.
You should probably get a bunch of shows that were recorded with those mics and listen to each of them carefully to make up your mind.
I 007 tape shows using a 4-track recorder and 2 pairs of mics (cardioids and omnis).
My cardioids are Sennheiser caps and I would say they play in the same league then the AT853 that were mentioned earlier.
The omnis are DPA4061's.
When I get to compare both recordings, I most of the time like the cards rendition better than the omnis.
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Plug a pair of EM172 omnis (such as the Clippy Mics https://micbooster.com/primo-microphone-capsules/98-mono-clippy-em172-microphone.html (https://micbooster.com/primo-microphone-capsules/98-mono-clippy-em172-microphone.html)) into to a Roland R-07. Throw in pocket, clip mics somewhere and control levels with your phone. If you want to do super loud you may want different mics.
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What´s been said above...some CA-mic´s as a start and then perhaps AT-943 Mic´s and a batterybox for louder rockconcerts!
If you can find a used Olympus-LS 10 recorder then you will have a really compact taping rig with really great sound possibilites!
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Disagree with the phone option. To each his own but not an option I would consider.
Never. I grip enough running a deck stealth, but at least there's a near 100% chance the show gets recorded. No phones.
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Gentlemen, I want ot apoliogize for what seems to be my lack of interest in this topic that I created. For some reason I thought I would receive an email notification of replies and I just thought my post fell on deaf ears. I should have known better from my lpst involvement with this community. I appreciate everyone's input on this and I plant to read each and every post and check out all options discussed in your replies.
Again my apologies
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A couple of things tht I can answer right away are:
1) Price Range - I am not llking to break the bank just looking to get good equipment for a decent price. I know the costs can get out of hand and I am willing to pace myself in building my rig so that I can get good gear. Right now I am sitting on $500 and will probably look to spend most of that on mics or a preamp.
I did some readong the daya I posted this topic on here and I noticed something that I know nothing about and If I remember correctly they care called active mic cables that allowed you to run just the caps of the mic up on your stand. I clearly need to read more on this topic but it interests me. Can someone tell me if I am understanding this correctly and that the rest of hte mic is placed on the other end of the cable somewhere??? See my confusion on this topic get out there pretty quick...LOL
2) I am not looking to run stealth, I have no interest in recording music that doesn't want me to record it...with that being said. Could I get a good bead on the mic stand. If I remember correctly my last stand was a camera stand with a nadapter screw on top that made a T-bat fit on it. This may be a good place for me to start. (Cables, mic stand, T-bar...etc)
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As far as stand goes, I adore the stand from this thread (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=185096.0) for open taping: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1074706-REG/photek_ls_8122_3_section_10_folding_light.html
For recording deck, I love my tascam dr680mkii - 6 imputs lets me experiment with 4 mics a good bit as well as always having space for a board patch. Cost me $350 (blemished box from Amazon) but they're going totally new for $380. Pres are nice and transparent so could save some money on a preamp potentially, but I imagine there will be lots of opinions in that regard.
For mics I'd just keep an eye out on the yard sale and pick up a stereo pair of some cards or supercards in your price range depending on your preference.
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You're getting back into it - I am just getting into it. I patched Phish shows last summer and decided to take the plunge.
Here are some recs from months of reading here and what I have gone with:
Buy a deck with good internal pres. There are many out there now at GREAT values for a startup rig. While a Sound Devices Mix Pre 3 or 6 might be pricey, check out Tascam Dr-70d, Dr-701d, or what I and love2tape have gone with Tascam Dr-680mkII. Also Marantz, Zoom and other manufacturers. This tech has brought decks to the point of not needing a separate pre in your chain (some would disagree).
Go to archive dot org. Start listening to shows by typing mics you are interested in in the search bar. Play the shows, look at the recording chain, pick and choose. Do this a lot. Its the second greatest tool besides reading threads here.
Use ebay or the yard sale here to pick up some good value mics. I went with Audio Technica AT3031, Sennheiser e641, and soon will be getting Line Audio CM3 and OM1. How did I do this? Archive dot org. Its easy to read about things here and think "oh this is the one I want," but it comes down to how they sound and price.
Active cabling? If you are on a small budget just set that idea aside for now. Others can answer you questions on it, but I can tell you to stay within your budget, learn good taping technique and you will pull good tapes with gear you are comfortable with. Active setups are expensive. Don't under pay, but don't blow your budget either. Its a long life - build a locker one step at a time.
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This tech has brought decks to the point of not needing a separate pre in your chain (some would disagree).
I'd agree with this subject to qualification. At some point one may find an outboard pre making a difference in the sound, and thus an outboard pre may become desirable. When starting out, though, and certainly when on a limited budget, the money is better spent on a deck that has a decent internal pre, and mics (not to mention associated gear necessary like battery, cables, stand, mount, etc.). An external pre certainly isn't strictly necessary assuming the deck can provide the proper power for the mics and is good enough quality, but it may become desirable later on. Or it may not. To each their own!
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2) I am not looking to run stealth, I have no interest in recording music that doesn't want me to record it...
Smaller mics can still be worth looking at because they are less visually intrusive, easier to transport and carry, easier to mount, etc. I'd put AT853s in that category. A pair of AT853 cards could suffice as a very versatile rig even for open recording only.
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In regards to actives, I would not consider it a priority since you plan on only running open taping. Actives become most useful and in many cases a requirement in stealth taping.
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A Zoom F4 is ~$450 shipped from various places. It is about the same size as your UA-5, without the need for an additional bit bucket, plus giving you 2x the inputs. CM3s are ~$250/pair http://www.lineaudio.se/CM3.html (http://www.lineaudio.se/CM3.html). I have no experience with them, but have never heard anything bad. For a stand, any of these (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=light+stand&ssPageName=GSTL&Features=Air%2520Cushioned&rt=nc&Max%252E%2520Extension=13%252D14%2520ft&_dcat=88665) should work fine, they are all pretty much the same. I have two that are still going strong after 15 years or so.
I realize that is over your budget, but should give you a rig that you will not feel the need to upgrade right away.
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If you want to stick to your $500 budget and are only going to use two channels anyway, some AT-853 cards ($245 from Sound Professionals), a no-frills battery box (~$60), and one of the inexpensive Sony (M10 or A10) or Roland (R-05 or R-07) recorders (~$200) will do you fine. They're all compact, but I've used them in plenty of non-stealth situations as well.
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If you want to stick to your $500 budget and are only going to use two channels anyway, some AT-853 cards ($245 from Sound Professionals), a no-frills battery box (~$60), and one of the inexpensive Sony (M10 or A10) or Roland (R-05 or R-07) recorders (~$200) will do you fine. They're all compact, but I've used them in plenty of non-stealth situations as well.
This is exactly what I'd do. Keep an eye on the Yard Sale and you can probably save money that can be put towards the necessary accessories.
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If you want to stick to your $500 budget and are only going to use two channels anyway, some AT-853 cards ($245 from Sound Professionals), a no-frills battery box (~$60), and one of the inexpensive Sony (M10 or A10) or Roland (R-05 or R-07) recorders (~$200) will do you fine. They're all compact, but I've used them in plenty of non-stealth situations as well.
This is exactly what I'd do. Keep an eye on the Yard Sale and you can probably save money that can be put towards the necessary accessories.
Or Ebay for the recorders. Just nabbed another DR-2D for $60 including shipping today.
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If you want to stick to your $500 budget and are only going to use two channels anyway, some AT-853 cards ($245 from Sound Professionals), a no-frills battery box (~$60), and one of the inexpensive Sony (M10 or A10) or Roland (R-05 or R-07) recorders (~$200) will do you fine. They're all compact, but I've used them in plenty of non-stealth situations as well.
This is exactly what I'd do. Keep an eye on the Yard Sale and you can probably save money that can be put towards the necessary accessories.
Or Ebay for the recorders. Just nabbed another DR-2D for $60 including shipping today.
!! Whoa. I had no idea, thought they always went for $100+
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Disagree with the phone option. To each his own but not an option I would consider.
obviously its 100% interface dependent, but my d:vice is fantastic and after using many rigs over the years, my d:vice+ iphone is as reliable as anything. expandable as well, as i will be demoing full size dpa caps with microdot actives this summer.
things move very fast and i find it difficult to make blanket statements about anything these days because the number of options (both good and bad) is expanding so rapidly
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If you want to stick to your $500 budget and are only going to use two channels anyway, some AT-853 cards ($245 from Sound Professionals), a no-frills battery box (~$60), and one of the inexpensive Sony (M10 or A10) or Roland (R-05 or R-07) recorders (~$200) will do you fine. They're all compact, but I've used them in plenty of non-stealth situations as well.
This is exactly what I'd do. Keep an eye on the Yard Sale and you can probably save money that can be put towards the necessary accessories.
Or Ebay for the recorders. Just nabbed another DR-2D for $60 including shipping today.
!! Whoa. I had no idea, thought they always went for $100+
They asked for $80 with a make an offer. It was there for 2 days. Offered $60 and they took it. Gives me 6 plus one for parts if need be.
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If you want to stick to your $500 budget and are only going to use two channels anyway, some AT-853 cards ($245 from Sound Professionals), a no-frills battery box (~$60), and one of the inexpensive Sony (M10 or A10) or Roland (R-05 or R-07) recorders (~$200) will do you fine. They're all compact, but I've used them in plenty of non-stealth situations as well.
I think there is an entire rig like this in the Yard Sale...
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If you want to stick to your $500 budget and are only going to use two channels anyway, some AT-853 cards ($245 from Sound Professionals), a no-frills battery box (~$60), and one of the inexpensive Sony (M10 or A10) or Roland (R-05 or R-07) recorders (~$200) will do you fine. They're all compact, but I've used them in plenty of non-stealth situations as well.
I think there is an entire rig like this in the Yard Sale...
Sorry, was a little off. Not AT853s - CAFS which really have a different (stealth) application.